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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#551 f1fastestlap

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 23:29

Why didnt he pass?


He did, but the 7sec was lost when he rejoined the track, when he passed he had lost an additional 4 secs...

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#552 robefc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 23:48

You're absolutely right he certainly didn't, always kept up-beat and genuinely congratulated Lewis on his performances, what a contrast there is between the two characters ! That's the main, if not only reason I want Jenson to win


That's unfair imo, frankly it's harder to congratulate someone if you're massively pissed off but lewis still does it.

#553 robefc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 23:50

I guess he couldn't, did remind me of last year, can't remember which race now, when LH was stuck behind MS for several laps unable to get past, then as soon as JB got ahead of him and up to the back of Schumacher JB was through at the very first opportunity with seemingly relative ease, it was quite a contrast !
Really seems to me like the tables have turned significantly


That would be monza and not exactly a representative example of their passing ability for reasons which have been endlessly discussed (although maybe their strategic ability).

Oz is hard to pass at, even with 2 DRS zones.

Having said that last year vettel made short work of passing people at several races when they were on old tyres (barcelona springs to mind).



#554 TheBunk

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 23:58

That's unfair imo, frankly it's harder to congratulate someone if you're massively pissed off but lewis still does it.


I dont wanna see too much in it, and perhaps this is just the way Lewis handles such things. But if I compare to other drivers, how they deal being beaten by team mates, it is a bit odd. The confident guys never let their defeat dictate their mood afterwards. They just heap praise on the other, stay relaxed and focus on the next race.

#555 Obi Offiah

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:04

I dont wanna see too much in it, and perhaps this is just the way Lewis handles such things. But if I compare to other drivers, how they deal being beaten by team mates, it is a bit odd. The confident guys never let their defeat dictate their mood afterwards. They just heap praise on the other, stay relaxed and focus on the next race.

He did seem rather sulky and I personally didn't like how he handled the PC. I was interested in aspects of his race and wanted to hear more about it, but it was far too evident he didn't want to be there.

#556 robefc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:04

I dont wanna see too much in it, and perhaps this is just the way Lewis handles such things. But if I compare to other drivers, how they deal being beaten by team mates, it is a bit odd. The confident guys never let their defeat dictate their mood afterwards. They just heap praise on the other, stay relaxed and focus on the next race.


I agreed with Tkulla earlier in that I'd like lewis to have a different attitude to that he displayed post race but that's because I think his attitude displays a cetain amount of immaturity and mental weakness, not because I want him to fake happiness.

Criticising him for not being genuine in his congratulations to button is completely different and, as I said, unfair imo. For better or worse he's incapable of a) hiding his emotions and b) controlling those emotions in the short term (he'l be in a positive mood before you know it and using this as motivation but not straight after the race) but he still congratulated button when he got out of the car, not sure what more people want in that regard, jumping up and down in delight for jenson would be a tad disingenuous

#557 Obi Offiah

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:06

I agreed with Tkulla earlier in that I'd like lewis to have a different attitude to that he displayed post race but that's because I think his attitude displays a cetain amount of immaturity and mental weakness, not because I want him to fake happiness.

Criticising him for not being genuine in his congratulations to button is completely different and, as I said, unfair imo. For better or worse he's incapable of a) hiding his emotions and b) controlling those emotions in the short term (he'l be in a positive mood before you know it and using this as motivation but not straight after the race) but he still congratulated button when he got out of the car, not sure what more people want in that regard, jumping up and down in delight for jenson would be a tad disingenuous

:up:

#558 garoidb

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:06

That's unfair imo, frankly it's harder to congratulate someone if you're massively pissed off but lewis still does it.


Any driver is pissed off if they are beaten. Lewis is the only one who lets his feelings show. Actually, I think these F1 drivers are amazing that way. They almost always find the right line to take with journalists to convey a positive impression, and show diffidence or confidence. It is a strength, and Lewis will hopefully see this.

#559 garoidb

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:18

I agreed with Tkulla earlier in that I'd like lewis to have a different attitude to that he displayed post race but that's because I think his attitude displays a cetain amount of immaturity and mental weakness, not because I want him to fake happiness.

Criticising him for not being genuine in his congratulations to button is completely different and, as I said, unfair imo. For better or worse he's incapable of a) hiding his emotions and b) controlling those emotions in the short term (he'l be in a positive mood before you know it and using this as motivation but not straight after the race) but he still congratulated button when he got out of the car, not sure what more people want in that regard, jumping up and down in delight for jenson would be a tad disingenuous


I don't think it is a case of needing to "fake happiness" but more about taking the right view of how or why the other driver has won. Jenson will sometimes win. It is not a problem, things will go his way sometimes. They will also go Lewis's way just as often perhaps. He cannot, and does not need to, obliterate Button. By failing to fully celebrate his third place, he sends the wrong message (to himself as much as anyone).

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#560 TheBunk

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:22

I agreed with Tkulla earlier in that I'd like lewis to have a different attitude to that he displayed post race but that's because I think his attitude displays a cetain amount of immaturity and mental weakness, not because I want him to fake happiness.

Criticising him for not being genuine in his congratulations to button is completely different and, as I said, unfair imo. For better or worse he's incapable of a) hiding his emotions and b) controlling those emotions in the short term (he'l be in a positive mood before you know it and using this as motivation but not straight after the race) but he still congratulated button when he got out of the car, not sure what more people want in that regard, jumping up and down in delight for jenson would be a tad disingenuous


I agree that there was nothing wrong with his attitude towards Jenson. And I guess it must be hard having been questioned how he felt being beaten last season by Jenson during the winter, to see him being beaten again at the first race of 2012 by him.

But this race simply wasnt bad at all, and its strange he doesnt take the good points with him, or that nobody in Mclaren, or his fancy new management, just cools him down a bit. Or that he didnt learn during his off time during the winter, how to cope with set backs and less than perfect race results. Youre not gonna win them all. Jenson is bound to be better at other race weekends too. He just gotta make sure at the end of the line, he has a good, better string of results. The mp4-27 seems to be the best car in the field and hell get plenty of opportunities to show some better results. That alone should make him happy and confident. The subdued attitude today just plays into his rivals hands. They see that Lewis still has weaknesses. I hope he thinks about that.

At least the next race is in 6 days, so he can redeem himself quickly.

#561 robefc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:27

I agree that there was nothing wrong with his attitude towards Jenson. And I guess it must be hard having been questioned how he felt being beaten last season by Jenson during the winter, to see him being beaten again at the first race of 2012 by him.

But this race simply wasnt bad at all, and its strange he doesnt take the good points with him, or that nobody in Mclaren, or his fancy new management, just cools him down a bit. Or that he didnt learn during his off time during the winter, how to cope with set backs and less than perfect race results. Youre not gonna win them all. Jenson is bound to be better at other race weekends too. He just gotta make sure at the end of the line, he has a good, better string of results. The mp4-27 seems to be the best car in the field and hell get plenty of opportunities to show some better results. That alone should make him happy and confident. The subdued attitude today just plays into his rivals hands. They see that Lewis still has weaknesses. I hope he thinks about that.

At least the next race is in 6 days, so he can redeem himself quickly.


He will and they will, no time for any help with that straight after the race before the presser though - and he needs a sulk before re-entering positive mode!

#562 trogggy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:29

I don't think it is a case of needing to "fake happiness" but more about taking the right view of how or why the other driver has won. Jenson will sometimes win. It is not a problem, things will go his way sometimes. They will also go Lewis's way just as often perhaps. He cannot, and does not need to, obliterate Button. By failing to fully celebrate his third place, he sends the wrong message (to himself as much as anyone).

I don't think he was pissed at finishing behind Button.
In fact I think it's pretty obvious that that wasn't the problem.

#563 garoidb

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:32

I don't think he was pissed at finishing behind Button.
In fact I think it's pretty obvious that that wasn't the problem.


Fine. So it is Vettel I assume. The same point applies.

#564 Talisker

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:34

I reckon he's got a big problem with self confidence. If he really believed in himself he would be pretty happy after this race, because it proved the one thing that was in doubt - his team has the fastest car. Instead he's worrying about beating JB.

#565 trogggy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:34

Fine. So it is Vettel I assume. The same point applies.

No, it doesn't.
Apples and oranges.

#566 fieraku

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:37

I don't think he was pissed at finishing behind Button.
In fact I think it's pretty obvious that that wasn't the problem.

He was settled in 2nd,once he lost that he became dejected I think,he even wanted to pit with 4 laps to go :drunk: ,not a good sign.

#567 klyster

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:37

Melbourne, Jenson 1 - Lewis 0.

Bring on Malaysia ;)

#568 PretentiousBread

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:38

Any driver is pissed off if they are beaten. Lewis is the only one who lets his feelings show. Actually, I think these F1 drivers are amazing that way. They almost always find the right line to take with journalists to convey a positive impression, and show diffidence or confidence. It is a strength, and Lewis will hopefully see this.


Frankly, I find that to be a load of bollocks and I don't understand where all this has come from. Ice cool JB was almost in tears post Korea 2010, Vettel looked distraught post Hungary 2010. Alonso in particular looked dead happy after Indy 2007, such a warm embrace on the podium with Hamilton.....

They all look pissed after being beaten, and the faster they are the more likely they are to look pissed off. I'm not saying Hamilton is as good at 'hiding' his emotions as those around him, but they all betray their feelings pretty obviously if you ask me.

#569 fieraku

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:40

I reckon he's got a big problem with self confidence. If he really believed in himself he would be pretty happy after this race, because it proved the one thing that was in doubt - his team has the fastest car. Instead he's worrying about beating JB.

I think he has too much self confidence thus he doesn't handle failure well.

#570 SCEPurple

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:42

Frankly, I find that to be a load of bollocks and I don't understand where all this has come from. Ice cool JB was almost in tears post Korea 2010, Vettel looked distraught post Hungary 2010. Alonso in particular looked dead happy after Indy 2007, such a warm embrace on the podium with Hamilton.....

They all look pissed after being beaten, and the faster they are the more likely they are to look pissed off. I'm not saying Hamilton is as good at 'hiding' his emotions as those around him, but they all betray their feelings pretty obviously if you ask me.


Agreed :up:

It feels like people see what they want to see. His post-race interview was more comfortable viewing than for example, Vettel's post quali interview just yesterday?

#571 PretentiousBread

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:42

He was settled in 2nd,once he lost that he became dejected I think,he even wanted to pit with 4 laps to go :drunk: ,not a good sign.


As a LH fan, I find that pretty shocking that he was asking if he could pit with 4 laps to go (Malaysia 2011 was a bit more understandable). You'd think he was new to this whole motor racing thing.

#572 P123

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:42

Any driver is pissed off if they are beaten. Lewis is the only one who lets his feelings show. Actually, I think these F1 drivers are amazing that way. They almost always find the right line to take with journalists to convey a positive impression, and show diffidence or confidence. It is a strength, and Lewis will hopefully see this.


I would agree that he could hide his emotions better- such despondancy will only be a boost to his competition. But he has dealt with adversity well in the past, and neitehr is he the only one to have a face like a wet weekend after a poor race. It would only be a real issue if he is like that in the car when things aren't going as he would like.... sort of like Andy Murray Syndrome where the emotions work in a negative fashion, the shoulders drop and it all becomes a bit self-defeating.

Edited by P123, 19 March 2012 - 00:44.


#573 trogggy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:43

As a LH fan, I find that pretty shocking that he was asking if he could pit with 4 laps to go (Malaysia 2011 was a bit more understandable). You'd think he was new to this whole motor racing thing.

What did he say? :confused:

#574 robefc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:44

As a LH fan, I find that pretty shocking that he was asking if he could pit with 4 laps to go (Malaysia 2011 was a bit more understandable). You'd think he was new to this whole motor racing thing.


I must have missed this, lewis asked to pit with 4 laps to go???

#575 travbrad

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:45

Fine. So it is Vettel I assume. The same point applies.


I don't think it was just because he finished behind Vettel either, it's more because of HOW he finished behind Vettel. He got a fairly poor start, then later got stuck behind Perez for awhile, then had some bad luck with the safety car. All 3 of those things have to be pretty frustrating.

I'm not sure he actually had the pace to beat Button today anyway, but if any of those 3 things had gone his way he'd surely have been a lot closer (and finished 2nd).

#576 fieraku

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:46

As a LH fan, I find that pretty shocking that he was asking if he could pit with 4 laps to go (Malaysia 2011 was a bit more understandable). You'd think he was new to this whole motor racing thing.

Honestly,I'm starting to get put off.I just heard about it,wtf? :stoned:

#577 klyster

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:47

I think someone might be confusing where he earlier asked to pit but was told to stay out for four more laps, maybe?

#578 fieraku

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:47

I must have missed this, lewis asked to pit with 4 laps to go???

http://www.dailymoti...io-feature_auto

18:22

Lap 54
Lewis: "................." (Something like "my tyres are gone")
Engineer: "Ok Lewis we need to stay out, 4 more laps to go, we need to make it to the end... we will lose alot of positions if we pit"

Lap 55
Lewis sets nice time 0.o
engineer: "good job your fastest middle sector of the race"



#579 robefc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:49

So he didn't then basically!

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#580 trogggy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:49

'My tyres are gone' ≠ 'I want to pit.'



#581 fieraku

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:52

You can't really hear Lewis but his RE said "if we pit" which I guess suggests.....he asked? I just read it in the 27 thread so...

#582 P123

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:53

I must have missed this, lewis asked to pit with 4 laps to go???


Not sure- I think he just decried to the pits that his rears were gone. I'm sure somebody will have the audio link.

After listening to it the only word you hear from LH is "four", so...

Edited by P123, 19 March 2012 - 01:05.


#583 PretentiousBread

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:00

I reckon he's got a big problem with self confidence. If he really believed in himself he would be pretty happy after this race, because it proved the one thing that was in doubt - his team has the fastest car. Instead he's worrying about beating JB.


A driver's speed is their lifeforce, and when they're being outpaced fair and square (and this has been happening a lot lately, probably for the first time in Hamilton's entire motor racing career) that's what would bother them. Hamilton looked mega happy after Shanghai 2010, because he'd driven a sparkling race and couldn't have finished any higher with the strategy that played out for him, which in the driver's mind at least is not their fault. So long as you can rationalise why you have been beaten and determine it to be a one off it's not such an issue. Hamilton's post race interviews at Suzuka and India last year match up very well with today's - he was at a loss to explain why he was slower than JB. That would be a horrible feeling in your stomach.

For me, Hamilton's relative lack of pace since around midway last year is of far, far greater significance than his bad luck today, and I don't know why so many are focusing on McLaren supposedly losing Hamilton 2nd place when the reality was he had the car underneath him to overtake Vettel but couldn't even keep up with him much less pass him, while Button was streaking away from them both at a rate of knots. IMO today's race was as ineffective a performance from Hamilton as the majority of his performances in 2011, just that he was in a better car this time - something's still not right.

#584 Kvothe

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:13

A driver's speed is their lifeforce, and when they're being outpaced fair and square (and this has been happening a lot lately, probably for the first time in Hamilton's entire motor racing career) that's what would bother them. Hamilton looked mega happy after Shanghai 2010, because he'd driven a sparkling race and couldn't have finished any higher with the strategy that played out for him, which in the driver's mind at least is not their fault. So long as you can rationalise why you have been beaten and determine it to be a one off it's not such an issue. Hamilton's post race interviews at Suzuka and India last year match up very well with today's - he was at a loss to explain why he was slower than JB. That would be a horrible feeling in your stomach.

For me, Hamilton's relative lack of pace since around midway last year is of far, far greater significance than his bad luck today, and I don't know why so many are focusing on McLaren supposedly losing Hamilton 2nd place when the reality was he had the car underneath him to overtake Vettel but couldn't even keep up with him much less pass him, while Button was streaking away from them both at a rate of knots. IMO today's race was as ineffective a performance from Hamilton as the majority of his performances in 2011, just that he was in a better car this time - something's still not right.


Lewis was outpaced by Alonso in 2007 in a lot of races so its not the first time, no matter the context

Similarly he wasn't necessarily at a loss to know, but he had only just got out of the car, and hadn't had time to analyse the race. It was therefore the only truthful answer he could have given to the press without guessing.

Lewis hasn't lost pace its just that Button has improved his qualifying and his starts. There were races last year where Button matched Lewis pace Australia, Barcelona, Silverstone ect where once Jenson was in clean air he was more or less matching Lewis' time but recovering back from a bad start had cost him.

Similarly Lewis was still outpacing Jenson near the end of last year in Korea and Abu Dhabi, and was all over the back of him in Brazil in spite of his gearbox problem. Your point demeans both Button and Lewis, by implying the former's success was only a consequence of the latter having failed.

You also forget that after the initial opening phase Lewis and Jenson were trading laps blow for blow and it was only went the tires went off the cliff and Lewis was left out for a lap longer on tires that had reached the cliff did Button pull out such a big gap, which went down and was then stabilized at around 9.5 until the second round of pit stops.

As for Vettel and the Red Bull, Lewis admitted they were too fast on the straights for him to overtake without a significant advantage, articularly because they had set up their gearing for the race and so in his own words he chose to back off and get some clear air. The fact that at this time he made a radio transmission claiming that his tyres were gone only supports that.

Its not the disaster some posters seem to be painting it, and for a poster usually as astute as yourself I'm surprised to see your opinion so black and white on this.To echo Owen in the MP4 27 thread if both had been filled up I would have loved to have seen what Lewis could have done on the harder tyres

Edited by Kvothe, 19 March 2012 - 01:19.


#585 TheBunk

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:14

Frankly, I find that to be a load of bollocks and I don't understand where all this has come from. Ice cool JB was almost in tears post Korea 2010, Vettel looked distraught post Hungary 2010. Alonso in particular looked dead happy after Indy 2007, such a warm embrace on the podium with Hamilton.....

They all look pissed after being beaten, and the faster they are the more likely they are to look pissed off. I'm not saying Hamilton is as good at 'hiding' his emotions as those around him, but they all betray their feelings pretty obviously if you ask me.


Button finished P12 reporting the same brake problems Hamilton said costed him the win. Overal hes been more than fair to Lewis, probably one of the key reasons they get along so well.

Ive heard Vettel praise Webber many times too, for instance at Monaco when he said he simply couldnt catch him either in qualifying or the race. I think he was very magnanimous yesterday to Hamilton, and today to Button as well, where ive heard Hamilton making less flattering remarks last year when he got beaten to pole by one of the red bulls('whatever it is theyre doing in Q3').

As a LH fan, I find that pretty shocking that he was asking if he could pit with 4 laps to go (Malaysia 2011 was a bit more understandable). You'd think he was new to this whole motor racing thing.


Didnt hear this, but he shouldv known staying so close to Vettel for so long was bound to kill his tyres at one point. Frankly I didnt understand why he didnt back off earlier. Maybe because of Webber?

But in the end he had a good race, save from the start and the odd lock up (after the 2nd pitstop). Kept his head cool in a fight with both Red Bulls. Weve seen worse from him.

He wanted a car that could fight for the championship and it looks like hes got one now. He should be very happy with that imo. Lets hope for some good racing between Jenson and Lewis the rest of the season.

#586 PretentiousBread

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:31

Lewis was outpaced by Alonso in 2007 in a lot of races so its not the first time, no matter the context

Similarly he wasn't necessarily at a loss to know, but he had only just got out of the car, and hadn't had time to analyse the race. It was therefore the only truthful answer he could have given to the press without guessing.

Lewis hasn't lost pace its just that Button has improved his qualifying and his starts. There were races last year where Button matched Lewis pace Australia, Barcelona, Silverstone ect where once Jenson was in clean air he was more or less matching Lewis' time but recovering back from a bad start had cost him.

Similarly Lewis was still outpacing Jenson near the end of last year in Korea and Abu Dhabi, and was all over the back of him in Brazil in spite of his gearbox problem. Your point demeans both Button and Lewis, by implying the former's success was only a consequence of the latter having failed.

You also forget that after the initial opening phase Lewis and Jenson were trading laps blow for blow and it was only went the tires went off the cliff and Lewis was left out for a lap longer on tires that had reached the cliff did Button pull out such a big gap, which went down and was then stabilized at around 9.5 until the second round of pit stops.

As for Vettel, Lewis admitted they were too fast on the straights for him to overtake without a significant advantage having set up their gearing for the race and so in his own words he chose to back off and get some clear air. The fact that at this time he made a radio transmission claiming that his tyres were gone only supports that.

Its not the disaster some posters seem to be painting it, and for a poster usually as astute as yourself I'm surprised to see your opinion so black and white on this.To echo Owen in the MP4 27 thread if both had been filled up I would have loved to have seen what Lewis could have done on the harder tyres


Your account of events sounds comforting, but if he was as even today with JB as that sounds, then I don't understand how he had no answer to JB's early pace, both at the race start and after the safety car. He only had one noticeably good spell, around midway point of the race where he caught JB by a couple of seconds.

Hamilton had around 10 kph in the speed trap on Vettel, so I don't buy his excuse that Seb was too fast in a straight line - I believe he just couldn't keep up and after initially being close after the SC and having the benefit of 2 DRS zones, he very gradually dropped back because he fundamentally did not have the same pace. It's not that I expect Hamilton to have taken chunks into Button's lead, they're too evenly matched for that - it's that I don't expect Button streaking away at the front to go unanswered, but it did today. Had the positions been reversed and this had been 2010 you'd have said at the time that it was typical LH vs JB - LH blistering out of the box, JB more circumspect and cautious with the tyres and coming back at him a little nearing the end of a stint.

I get a bit like JJ after bad LH performances though and get a bit depressed, so I can appreciate if others think what i'm saying is overly negative.

#587 Kvothe

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:47

Your account of events sounds comforting, but if he was as even today with JB as that sounds, then I don't understand how he had no answer to JB's early pace, both at the race start and after the safety car. He only had one noticeably good spell, around midway point of the race where he caught JB by a couple of seconds.

Hamilton had around 10 kph in the speed trap on Vettel, so I don't buy his excuse that Seb was too fast in a straight line - I believe he just couldn't keep up and after initially being close after the SC and having the benefit of 2 DRS zones, he very gradually dropped back because he fundamentally did not have the same pace. It's not that I expect Hamilton to have taken chunks into Button's lead, they're too evenly matched for that - it's that I don't expect Button streaking away at the front to go unanswered, but it did today. Had the positions been reversed and this had been 2010 you'd have said at the time that it was typical LH vs JB - LH blistering out of the box, JB more circumspect and cautious with the tyres and coming back at him a little nearing the end of a stint.

I get a bit like JJ after bad LH performances though and get a bit depressed, so I can appreciate if others think what i'm saying is overly negative.


Well at the start undoubtedly he was affected by the turbulent air coming off Jenson, but it might also have been that Jenson's tires were just in better shape. After the safety car he was stuck behind Vettel, he was clearly faster at the restart but was unable to pass, with the Red Bull pulling out time in the final sector and with KERS and good traction of turn 16 enough to prevent Lewis getting close.

I think it says a lot that Vettel was able to set a faster sector 1 time then Lewis despite the latter being in the DRS zone at the end of the race. http://www.fia.com/e...ace-sectors.pdf and that Webber set the fastest sector 1 time despite there being two fairly long straights.

You'll also see that once in the clear air he left himself, Lewis was lapping at the same pace as Vettel at the end despite his tires seemingly going off http://www.fia.com/e...ce-analysis.pdf This would also support his point about dirty air, and Australia being a hard track to follow, and it must be remembered that those times were set with severe fuel saving.

To your last point I'm pretty much the same, however I think 2011 was a year of growth for me. In fact I would say it definitely made me stronger. :cool:

Edited by Kvothe, 19 March 2012 - 01:54.


#588 glorius&victorius

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:07

Whitmarsh: Button is title challenger: http://adamcooperf1....he-right-place/



#589 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:30

Whitmarsh: Button is title challenger: http://adamcooperf1....he-right-place/


Remarkable. This part was interesting:

"Whitmarsh was full of praise for Button, who did a near faultless job all weekend.

“I think he’s just got stronger and stronger. He’s got such a mature, laid back easy manner it just belies the underlying hunger to win that he has. I think he must now believe that he’s in with a good chance of a proper title run this year, and I think providing that we can continue to improve the car, and not make mistakes and be reliable, there’s no reason that he can’t.”



#590 ForzaGTR

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:10

I would like to add something to all this. People seem surprised that Lewis was so upset on the podium.

Why?

In my opinion this is the first time Jenson has out paced Lewis in a race where he can't blame it on something else. In other races where Jenson has beaten him he has been able to blame team errors, his errors or his private life. However, coming into this weekend he was bright, excited and refreshed. He got pole, it all seemed perfectly set up for a race victory, he even had his GF and mother there and yet he was thoroughly beaten by his team mate who he out qualified.

I genuinely think he was shocked at the result, yesterday was a huge moment for him. Jenson is going to be a huge challenge for him, he's faster than Lewis thought.

#591 Lazy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:26

Whitmarsh: Button is title challenger: http://adamcooperf1....he-right-place/


Ofc, would you expect to say he wasn't a challenger? At no point does he suggest that Button is McLarens title challenger at the expense of Lewis. I think you are trying to sensationalize this article by implying something that isn't there.

#592 garoidb

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:30

No, it doesn't.
Apples and oranges.


So it is not because Button beat him, and it is not because Vettel beat him. Displeasure with the team, perhaps?

#593 revlec

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:33

I guess he couldn't, did remind me of last year, can't remember which race now, when LH was stuck behind MS for several laps unable to get past, then as soon as JB got ahead of him and up to the back of Schumacher JB was through at the very first opportunity with seemingly relative ease, it was quite a contrast !
Really seems to me like the tables have turned significantly


What about BUT being stuck behind MAS in Australia 2011(last year) Gp for several laps? such a selective memory you have..

#594 Lights

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:34

In my opinion this is the first time Jenson has out paced Lewis in a race where he can't blame it on something else. In other races where Jenson has beaten him he has been able to blame team errors, his errors or his private life. However, coming into this weekend he was bright, excited and refreshed. He got pole, it all seemed perfectly set up for a race victory, he even had his GF and mother there and yet he was thoroughly beaten by his team mate who he out qualified.

I genuinely think he was shocked at the result, yesterday was a huge moment for him. Jenson is going to be a huge challenge for him, he's faster than Lewis thought.

Not a bad point you're making there. Also, he badly wanted to leave 2011 behind him asap and start of 2012 with a bang, obviously. For his mindset this is important too.

#595 muramasa

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:57


I think alot of overanalyzing going on to be honest.
At least it's not the first time JB had upper hand without anything excusable.

To me, post-race Lewis looked just normal. He was calm, rightly happy (to have competitive package) and rightly disappointed (who wouldnt be disapointed to finish 3rd by starting from pole, despite having pace, and seeing teammate win?).
There are 2 cars in the team, one always has to come forward and the other behind. This time JB did perfect, car setup wise and strategy wise as well as driving. They are evenly matched at extremely high level, yet their style and strength is quite different, so they will be swapping position race by race. One of the most exciting driver pairing ever, such thing didnt happen often and may not happen again for many many years. This season can be epic one.


#596 ImDDAA

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:15

What about BUT being stuck behind MAS in Australia 2011(last year) Gp for several laps? such a selective memory you have..


Terrible point from Icecream guy anyway, if you go back and watch what actually happened at Monza.

#597 trogggy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:30

So it is not because Button beat him, and it is not because Vettel beat him. Displeasure with the team, perhaps?

Try again.
Just make something else up.
He should be delighted - after all he didn't make a mistake at the start, didn't have any bad luck at all with pit stops and the safety car and didn't end up stuck behind the driver he was chasing all last year in what he knows was the best car yesterday.

#598 Kraken

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:52

Gary has it spot on for me - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17421227

#599 Rocket73

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:25

Oh my! could there BE a better start to season? Jenson schools lewis in the dry and the leaves the bulls in his wake. Let the myth that JB is anything other than Lewis' equal be thoroughly busted.

Jenson and McLaren were awesome this weekend. Bring it ON!!

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#600 OSX

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:27

Gary has it spot on for me - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17421227

Hamilton's been hurting every since F1 switched to Pirellis which suit Button's driving style perfectly. Without the switch from Bridgestone to Pirelli Hamilton would still be on top. I think it's pretty much as simple as that.