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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#701 fed up

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 20:58

For me the concern isn't his lack of mental strength, it's the manner in which he appears to have lost practically all the advantages he previously had over the other drivers.

He got a reasonably good start yesterday but he was timid on the brakes - the last of the late brakers was out braked. Then he was dusted in the opening phase and was beaten for pace fair and square.

Horner said they feared Button - Lewis retorted by denigrating Button's performance and rising to the bait. Too sensitive.

My view is he doesn't have an answer to Button's overall pace. Button has him beat psychologically as well. Those expecting Lewis to dominate Button should go back in history to see how Lewis wasn't able to in 2011 when his reputation depended on it.

I can't say I'm looking forward to the unfolding drama - it's going to be painful for sure.

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#702 Clatter

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:04

For me the concern isn't his lack of mental strength, it's the manner in which he appears to have lost practically all the advantages he previously had over the other drivers.

He got a reasonably good start yesterday but he was timid on the brakes - the last of the late brakers was out braked. Then he was dusted in the opening phase and was beaten for pace fair and square.

Horner said they feared Button - Lewis retorted by denigrating Button's performance and rising to the bait. Too sensitive.

My view is he doesn't have an answer to Button's overall pace. Button has him beat psychologically as well. Those expecting Lewis to dominate Button should go back in history to see how Lewis wasn't able to in 2011 when his reputation depended on it.

I can't say I'm looking forward to the unfolding drama - it's going to be painful for sure.


He got wheelspin that allowed JB through, nothing to do with being timid on the brakes.

#703 mlsnoopy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:10

Well at least he didn't crash into Massa :well:


But Massa still managed to crash. You have to ask yourself is Massa the problem?

#704 slmk

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:11

Come off it. He made a mistake at the start, but he was slower thereafter too. He never for a minute looked like he was going to get his place back.


He was slow in the opening laps (first 2-3 laps) but then the gap stabilized at around 3-3.5 seconds and only increased when Lewis did that extra lap with worn tyres and got stuck behind Perez.

I agree with you, but let's not make a mountain out a molehill. Button got the upperhand when it mattered and took advantage of the long end of the stick strategy-wise.

Kudos to him. Now let's move on to Malaysia.

#705 GlenP

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:16

He was slow in the opening laps (first 2-3 laps) but then the gap stabilized at around 3-3.5 seconds and only increased when Lewis did that extra lap with worn tyres and got stuck behind Perez.

I agree with you, but let's not make a mountain out a molehill. Button got the upperhand when it mattered and took advantage of the long end of the stick strategy-wise.

Kudos to him. Now let's move on to Malaysia.

I was responding to PNSD, who was getting carried away suggesting that dropping the first place was his only error, and that he should start calling his own strategy.

Previously, I have been at pains to point out that this is just one race. I guess you didn't notice/ignored that.

#706 fed up

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:19

He was slow in the opening laps (first 2-3 laps) but then the gap stabilized at around 3-3.5 seconds and only increased when Lewis did that extra lap with worn tyres and got stuck behind Perez.

I agree with you, but let's not make a mountain out a molehill. Button got the upperhand when it mattered and took advantage of the long end of the stick strategy-wise.

Kudos to him. Now let's move on to Malaysia.


A gap of 3 secs is now the safe gap in F1 - Jenson could have pulled out more if he wanted to.

Lewis got trounced in the 4th quarter last year. He blamed relationships, bubble's, misc - it didn't matter that Button beat him because neither were competing for the WDC. He would be back better, focused and faster....

1st race in and Jenson comprehensively thrashed him. Malaysia is perhaps coming too soon for him - confidence must be very low at the moment and Vettel beat him in an apparently slower car.

Humbling :cat:

#707 stairpotato

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:20

He was slow in the opening laps (first 2-3 laps) but then the gap stabilized at around 3-3.5 seconds and only increased when Lewis did that extra lap with worn tyres and got stuck behind Perez.

I agree with you, but let's not make a mountain out a molehill. Button got the upperhand when it mattered and took advantage of the long end of the stick strategy-wise.

Kudos to him. Now let's move on to Malaysia.


I don't believe this to be true. If anyone has access to lap times I'd be interested in seeing a comparison from the whole of the first stint. From memory JB was consistently a tenth or two faster for most of the stint except a handful of laps.

#708 Lights

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:23

I don't believe this to be true. If anyone has access to lap times I'd be interested in seeing a comparison from the whole of the first stint. From memory JB was consistently a tenth or two faster for most of the stint except a handful of laps.

It is true.

EDIT: Hm well actually, more gradual than I thought. But in the first 2 laps losing 2.2 seconds, or ~1,5 seconds if you subtract the standard 'driving behind someone'-time, was obviously the largest part.

Edited by Lights, 19 March 2012 - 21:26.


#709 dave12

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:23

A gap of 3 secs is now the safe gap in F1 - Jenson could have pulled out more if he wanted to.

Lewis got trounced in the 4th quarter last year. He blamed relationships, bubble's, misc - it didn't matter that Button beat him because neither were competing for the WDC. He would be back better, focused and faster....

1st race in and Jenson comprehensively thrashed him. Malaysia is perhaps coming too soon for him - confidence must be very low at the moment and Vettel beat him in an apparently slower car.

Humbling :cat:

Wait what are a Lewis fan?

#710 slmk

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:23

I don't believe this to be true. If anyone has access to lap times I'd be interested in seeing a comparison from the whole of the first stint. From memory JB was consistently a tenth or two faster for most of the stint except a handful of laps.


Go to F1 Fanatic. The bulk of Jenson's lead (2 - 2.5s) was in the couple of opening laps. Lewis was very slow at the start of the race.

#711 slmk

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:26

I was responding to PNSD, who was getting carried away suggesting that dropping the first place was his only error, and that he should start calling his own strategy.

Previously, I have been at pains to point out that this is just one race. I guess you didn't notice/ignored that.


I didn't notice it. Apologies, mate. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

#712 stairpotato

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:29

It is true.


Wow.

I'm genuinely baffled.

You contradict me and then link to something that supports my point?

Jenson was faster in every lap of the first 9 laps.

It's also notable that Lewis closing the gap slightly coincides about the time that Jenson was forced to start fuel saving...

(Just seen your edit - but you get my point - Jenson was consistently quicker over most of the stint)

Edited by stairpotato, 19 March 2012 - 21:30.


#713 as65p

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:40

This is a sport of incredibly fine margins. It doesn't surprise me that extraneous factors can impact pace. I recall Senna driving a second a lap faster after Mansell crashed out in one of his championship years - it was like a pressure had been lifted from his shoulders all of a sudden - and it directly impacted his pace. It's not too much of a stretch to consider that a demoralised driver could be a few tenths off of a driver who's in the right place mentally...


Are you talking of Suzuka '91 by chance? I believe that was the complete opposite, psychologically. Mansell had to win that to stay in the hunt, the grid was Berger - Senna - Mansell, and McLaren + both drivers played that perfectly. Berger blasting away into the distance, Senna just driving fast enough to hold Nige. That way the pressure mounted on Mansell, cause he couldn't afford to let Berger get away and win, he needed full points. So he absolutely had to get past Senna quickly - and promptly threw the car into the scenery trying. Of course after that point, Senna turned up the wick and drove to win the race (only to be persuaded by the team to gift the win to Berger at the last corner, but that's another story).

Sorry for the OT. :blush:

#714 slmk

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:41

Wow.

I'm genuinely baffled.

You contradict me and then link to something that supports my point?

Jenson was faster in every lap of the first 9 laps.

It's also notable that Lewis closing the gap slightly coincides about the time that Jenson was forced to start fuel saving...

(Just seen your edit - but you get my point - Jenson was consistently quicker over most of the stint)


You really want to argue this, don't you?

Button gained 2.25 seconds in the first 2 laps. Then, he only gained an average of 0.09s (net) over the next 13 laps.

#715 as65p

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:45

Come off it. He made a mistake at the start, but he was slower thereafter too. He never for a minute looked like he was going to get his place back.

All the fantasy about him going it alone on strategy is just that; fantasy. If he stops a few laps early on stop one, when is he going top get those laps back? He was (same as everyone) on the edge of his tyres at the end of the race, so if he had done as you guys suggest and pit early for stop 1 he may well have lost 3rd in the end. The only meaningful event was the very bad luck in losing out to Vettel.

One of them had to win, and add to that a bit of bad luck and you get the result as seen - no further excuses or absurdity are needed.


The bolded, exactly. As I already wrote yesterday.

Would have loved the reaction here though, if McLaren had put him on a four-stopper and he'd have finished 6th. :D

#716 sofarapartguy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:46

You really want to argue this, don't you?

Button gained 2.25 seconds in the first 2 laps. Then, he only gained an average of 0.09s (net) over the next 13 laps.


And your thoughts are...?

#717 stairpotato

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:48

You really want to argue this, don't you?

Button gained 2.25 seconds in the first 2 laps. Then, he only gained an average of 0.09s (net) over the next 13 laps.


We know that the fuel saving instruction was given at some point in lap 8.

Up until the end of lap nine the gap was increasing by an average of 0.247 a lap.

An average of a quarter of a second a lap is a very significant margin over a team mate.

#718 icecream_man

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:52

The bolded, exactly. As I already wrote yesterday.

Would have loved the reaction here though, if McLaren had put him on a four-stopper and he'd have finished 6th. :D


Oh wow yeah, don't even go there, I can just picture it :lol:

#719 ImDDAA

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:35

Let's wait until the European season before we declare Lewis Hamiltons demise shall we. The fair-weather fans are more than welcome to jump ship at the next possible opportunity.

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#720 Coops3

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:37

Let's wait until the European season before we declare Lewis Hamiltons demise shall we. The fair-weather fans are more than welcome to jump ship at the next possible opportunity.


:up:

#721 jrg19

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:55

Lewis made one mistake the whole race you'd think he got a DNF the way some people are reacting, he'll get it right in Malaysia.



#722 icecream_man

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 23:13

Lewis made one mistake the whole race you'd think he got a DNF the way some people are reacting, he'll get it right in Malaysia.


Well there's a little bit more to it than that, yes he made a mistake at the start, but he was also unable to keep pace in the early laps let alone show any sign of getting the position back, then there were the issues with his tyre deg - if he'd pitted when he wanted to the whole race strategy would have been compromised. Plus he couldn't get past Perez when he had new tyres compared to the heavily worn ones on Perez' car.

Malaysia is indeed another race, we'll see how he goes there.

I don't really see people declaring his demise, although I do have to wonder how he's going to fare on tracks that are heavier on tyres.... time will tell !

Edited by icecream_man, 19 March 2012 - 23:15.


#723 robefc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 23:15

Well there's a little bit more to it than that, yes he made a mistake at the start, but he was also unable to keep pace in the early laps let alone show any sign of getting the position back, then there were the issues with his tyre deg - if he'd pitted when he wanted to the whole race strategy would have been compromised. Plus he couldn't get past Perez when he had new tyres compared to the heavily worn ones on Perez' car.

Malaysia is indeed another race, we'll see how he goes there.

I don't really see people declaring his demise, although I do have to wonder how he's going to fare on tracks that are heavier on tyres


His deg was similar to button's all race wasn't it? With the exception that he had to run an extra lap and they fell off a cliff.

Agree JB's pace at the start and post sc was worrying from the perspective of a lewis fan.

#724 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 23:19

You are normally one of the more level-headed Lewis fans. I hope you are not being serious with your recent posts.

I said it yesterday. This is one race of 20! There will be races this year, maybe even in Sepang where Lewis will win and Jenson will under perform or simply not be as quick! That's racing.

As I said previously, you are basing this on one race I assume? Because Lewis at the end of last year was perfectly fine, quick, making the right calls.

Look at it again... Lewis made one mistake this weekend, the start. Other than that maybe another mistake was not disregarding the team and pitting when he felt he needed (just box and give the team no choice!). He made one mistake, and that's all it needs against Jenson! That's what we've said all along, however before it has never been a winning situation! Lewis has made mistakes before nad Jenson has benefited but for positions of 2nd, or 3rd, 4th or 5th even? It just is more noticeable when it's for the win.


I often thought this over the first two years between the two. Amazing how when fighting over the one slot it polarises everyone's view of the situation yet when it's for 4th it's 'luck of the draw' or 'didn't make much difference, it's only for 4th'.

It's going to be so close between them this year. Jenson has improved so much since joining McLaren and winning the title in '09. This was truly one if his best wins, if not the best. Aus '12 and Jap '11 were the only races that ring loud in my memory where Jenson won on pure pace in the dry without a significant car advantage. And both were from 2nd on the grid too. When Jenson tops a practice session and qualifies well this season get some money on him for the race win, he will deliver most times. If it wasn't for Vettel he would have won many more like these two last year, India being the one that stands out to me. Seb and Jenson dominated their team mates that weekend.

Lewis has really got his work cut out now. He needs to get his head straight and be perfect to beat Jenson this season. He can do it but I'm not convinced he has the right mental approach. He seems to let himself get affected a little too much these days and for whatever reason doesn't seem capable of making good decisions consistently. It's like he can only see the next lap when Jenson can see the next stint. Australia '10 was a perfect example of this where Jenson proactively made the correct call when Lewis sleep walked into the wrong strategy and blamed the team. At the time people dismissed this is a luck call from Jenson but it was a combination of skill, experience and calculated risk. Some of this is experience but I believe key moments like this have permanently shaped the dynamic of the drivers within McLaren over the last 2 seasons to the point where we are now where Jenson looks a better driver from inside and outside the team. He is almost certainly more respected within the team and you can see this in Lewis' face. It's a quite remarkable development that not many people could have predicted in the face of Lewis' devastating pace. In the Bridgestone era it might not have happened but the Pirelli era is made for Jenson.

I remember Lewis in his early interviews in 07, 08, all smiles, it came so easy, probably too easy. Contrast this with Jenson's career who started ok, drifted for years never really tasting the highs, hit an all time low then 'rebuilt his swing' so to speak by taking on a big challenge and it's paying off. Lewis is still young, he's got at least 5/6 years longer in the sport than Jenson if he wants it enough.

#725 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 00:18

I really come to admire JB's mindset more and more. He's basically been through everything a racing drivers career can throw up, but it never seems to affect his self-belief in the slightest. Although not really interested in the guy back then, I well remember the mindgames JV tried with him in the early BAR years, and how he just shrugged that off. Same in 2010 when he was sometimes blown away by Hamilton: no effect, all water of a ducks back.

I think his secret could be a very pragmatic view on the game as a whole. He probably realizes better than his peers that he's not going to beat them with his talent every time, more, that no driver can do that. So if he's beaten, there is no big shock to his system. He just carries on regardless, working away to return the favour at the next race. And if again it goes wrong, whatever, there's always the race after that.

Just my personal view of him.

#726 hammibal

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:55

Gary has it spot on for me - http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17421227

Its basically what i also said that McLaren's first pitstop was too late which compromised Lewis's race in particular

#727 hammibal

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:57

Button was hurting when F1 had Bridgestones which suit Hamilton's driving style perfectly. Had they switched to Pirelli sooner Button would have always been on top. I think it's pretty much as simple as that.

Has there ever been tyres built to this sort of specification in F1 though?

#728 Kvothe

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:02

Let's wait until the European season before we declare Lewis Hamiltons demise shall we. The fair-weather fans are more than welcome to jump ship at the next possible opportunity.

:up:

#729 Kvothe

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:05

WHAT? Blaming dirty air now? Christ. Lewis's car set-up was a little off, that's all.


Please follow the argument before you make a useless, inaccurate point.

It helps sometimes.

#730 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:16

Has there ever been tyres built to this sort of specification in F1 though?


There have been tyres with similar challenging characteristics before, of course. For example the Michelins of the early 2000s were very fickle with their heat cycles. One or two fast initial laps, then a phase when they had to be treated like raw eggs and than a proper third phase if the driver got the second one right. Does "blistering" ring a bell?

It's rather the other way round, the Bridgestone bricks were the exception, not the norm.

#731 Burtros

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:29

All this talk of tyres is very tyreing.....

Its one race, Lewis will win plenty this year, if the car allows he will have a strong title bid too. People do the boy a dis-service by blaming the tyres.

All this is good for is the insight into the minds of some fans who either need an excuse or want to criticise F1 for having a rule that they percieve does not suit them or their driver.

I was a David Coulthard fan and the one shot qualy never suited him. Did I blame the rules? no it the same for every driver at the end of the day.

#732 slmk

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:21

We know that the fuel saving instruction was given at some point in lap 8.

Up until the end of lap nine the gap was increasing by an average of 0.247 a lap.

An average of a quarter of a second a lap is a very significant margin over a team mate.


You are picking and choosing your data. Taking a select part of the stint proves nothing. As far as I know, both drivers were instructed to save fuel so your point is moot.

#733 mstar

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 14:14

its been touched upon here, i just think Jenson preperation for the race is better then lewis. His set-up may not be optomised for qualy (look at speed trap figures for qualy), but i am sure jenson knows this and plans his race prep around the stints/flue loads/tyre wear for the race.

Problem is Lewis just can't drive around problems and still be faster (e.g Heiki) and rely on his talents as at te VERY HIGH level you need to get the car right and make it do what you want it to do as drive around problems just doesn;t fix the cars problems and over a race you lose out.

It may require lewis to have more awareness of the bigger picture and look at how the car will perform with different fuel loads/tyre wear etc.

Maybe its not shameful to copy Jensons and his engineers program for the race weekend? see what they doing differently and what they can learn? Also maybe it highlight some things Lewis can learn how to drive in those sessions to evaulate what the car is doing/will do in the race.

#734 fieraku

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 14:51

its been touched upon here, i just think Jenson preperation for the race is better then lewis. His set-up may not be optomised for qualy (look at speed trap figures for qualy), but i am sure jenson knows this and plans his race prep around the stints/flue loads/tyre wear for the race.

Problem is Lewis just can't drive around problems and still be faster (e.g Heiki) and rely on his talents as at te VERY HIGH level you need to get the car right and make it do what you want it to do as drive around problems just doesn;t fix the cars problems and over a race you lose out.

It may require lewis to have more awareness of the bigger picture and look at how the car will perform with different fuel loads/tyre wear etc.

Maybe its not shameful to copy Jensons and his engineers program for the race weekend?
see what they doing differently and what they can learn? Also maybe it highlight some things Lewis can learn how to drive in those sessions to evaulate what the car is doing/will do in the race.

I think that's a problem,they drive two totally different styles,I actually think he might have been doing that thinking it's the fastest way then come race time he finds himself in open water.
I don't think McLaren/Lewis have identified the problem which could be the reason why he's angry.I know about the low fuel problem but if he knew that then he should've been happy to have even finished let alone 3rd.
And if because of strategy,well,he wasn't that mad when he lost the 07 title due to it.

JB keeps praising his team/side of garage,his RE even twitted if we nail the setup Sepang is easy win.An easy win with LH as a teammate?Who would've thought this not even a year ago.
I think Lewis' side of garage is very deficient regarding setups and making the tires work,and if nothing changes he's in for a long hard season.

#735 robefc

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 14:51

I really come to admire JB's mindset more and more. He's basically been through everything a racing drivers career can throw up, but it never seems to affect his self-belief in the slightest. Although not really interested in the guy back then, I well remember the mindgames JV tried with him in the early BAR years, and how he just shrugged that off. Same in 2010 when he was sometimes blown away by Hamilton: no effect, all water of a ducks back.

I think his secret could be a very pragmatic view on the game as a whole. He probably realizes better than his peers that he's not going to beat them with his talent every time, more, that no driver can do that. So if he's beaten, there is no big shock to his system. He just carries on regardless, working away to return the favour at the next race. And if again it goes wrong, whatever, there's always the race after that.

Just my personal view of him.


I think that's a huge part of it, doesn't compute for lewis, didn't compute for alonso in 2007 and i doubt it would compute for vettel either.

#736 trogggy

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 15:23

F1 is not a popularity contest and thank f**k for that. In fact I use to enjoy Schumacher giving the British media the 2 fingers, because we deserved no better. Our press constantly slagged him off and then had the audacity to expect interviews. Schumacher repeatedly blanked Brundle, on his grid walks until Brundle, got the f**king message. :rotfl: Hamilton is better off just talking to Lee McKenzie and the odd interview with DC, instead of pretending to be buddy pals with DC, Jake and co. The same applies to SKY. Lewis needs to stay out of the media spotlight, if the BBC inadvertently aids this, all the better. :up:

Wrong thread? :confused:

#737 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 15:33

I think that's a huge part of it, doesn't compute for lewis, didn't compute for alonso in 2007 and i doubt it would compute for vettel either.


Yep. The question then becomes what those drivers for whom it doesn't compute do when it happens (inevitably for every driver at some point, I reckon).

Two of the above names have proven that they can dig deeper and come back fighting, with no lasting dent in their self-belief...

#738 maverick69

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 15:36

Yep. The question then becomes what those drivers for whom it doesn't compute do when it happens (inevitably for every driver at some point, I reckon).

Two of the above names have proven that they can dig deeper and come back fighting, with no lasting dent in their self-belief...


Have they?

Alonso is no doubt a formidable competitor - but he has in no way been paired with someone of Button's calibre since his defeat to Hamilton in 2007.

#739 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 15:48

Have they?

Alonso is no doubt a formidable competitor - but he has in no way been paired with someone of Button's calibre since his defeat to Hamilton in 2007.


Well, I fear where this will go, but as I see it, the shock to the system for Alonso happened in the first part of 2007 up to and including Canada. IMO he did recover after that, some very good performances for the rest of the season, notwithstanding that Hamilton was still faster than him in some races - at least I never got the impression he was depressed or downbeat, more like kicking and screaming, fighting with everything he got.

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#740 maverick69

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 15:59

Well, I fear where this will go, but as I see it, the shock to the system for Alonso happened in the first part of 2007 up to and including Canada. IMO he did recover after that, some very good performances for the rest of the season, notwithstanding that Hamilton was still faster than him in some races - at least I never got the impression he was depressed or downbeat, more like kicking and screaming, fighting with everything he got.


I got the impression that Fred was very downbeat. He knew and still knows that he should have won the title. And the only kicking and screaming going on was to the likes of the FIA and Spanish press - ergo the FIA observer for the last few races etc.

Racing drivers are human after all...............

#741 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:01

Lewis made one mistake the whole race you'd think he got a DNF the way some people are reacting, he'll get it right in Malaysia.


No he won't. With the expected tire deg, he won't even finish in the top 5.

#742 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:03

I got the impression that Fred was very downbeat. He knew and still knows that he should have won the title. And the only kicking and screaming going on was to the likes of the FIA and Spanish press - ergo the FIA observer for the last few races etc.


I saw something else. Downbeat? Remember Alonso on the Brazil podium?

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree over that.

#743 maverick69

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:06

No he won't. With the expected tire deg, he won't even finish in the top 5.


Well neither will JB then - because they had pretty much exactly the same tyre wear in OZ.

#744 maverick69

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:09

I saw something else. Downbeat? Remember Alonso on the Brazil podium?

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree over that.


Erm...... Because Hamilton had just lost the WDC! It was bloody obvious. Could you imagine his face if he'd won it?!

Oh yeah....... Check out the podium at Brazil in 2008!


#745 icecream_man

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:17

No he won't. With the expected tire deg, he won't even finish in the top 5.


Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a Lewis fan, but I think that's somewhat unrealistic - I expect him to still be fighting for a podium, though he may need his strategy giving some serious thought

#746 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:20

I saw something else. Downbeat? Remember Alonso on the Brazil podium?

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree over that.


He was happy because he knew was leaving the team and that they didn't win the title.

Well neither will JB then - because they had pretty much exactly the same tyre wear in OZ.


Button went faster with the same tire deg. If he was as slow as Hamilton, his tires would've lasted longer.

Edited by BigCHrome, 20 March 2012 - 16:22.


#747 fieraku

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:22

No he won't. With the expected tire deg, he won't even finish in the top 5.


Sepang is a brutal track,his side/team have to get the setup spot on for race pace and also don't waste too many tires in Qualy.I'd rather have Lewis start 6th with fresh tires on hand and a good race setup than on pole with all used tires left.Which is I'm afraid they'll do,again,and he'll start going backwards and end of stints and end up with one more pitstop.
I would love to know how both of them operate and set up their cars relative to e/o,do they use JB's data as reference from practice,does LH set up his car Quali biased,etc.

Luck or not FA started 13th? and got only 5pts less than Lewis in the end,so that's how races could go and how irrelevant Quali can be if you have good race pace vs one lap speed,i.e Merc.




#748 icecream_man

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:41

Luck or not FA started 13th? and got only 5pts less than Lewis in the end,so that's how races could go and how irrelevant Quali can be if you have good race pace vs one lap speed,i.e Merc.


Don't forget FA was gifted a lot of those positions, but you're right setup will be critical in Sepang and that's a job the driver and engineer need to work on together

I'm expecting JB to be really strong there but there's never any guarantees

#749 bauss

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:44

No he won't. With the expected tire deg, he won't even finish in the top 5.


lol with fans like these, he does not need haters


Lets not go way overboard with the tire issue

If he is leading the race at the first corner, provided his setup is ok and the team respond and react to whats happening (instead of theoretical lap to stop or other bullsh*t like that), he could win the race.

Matter of fact he may not have to lead at the first corner to do so, provided the strategy is right and stars align.

He is not so bad as to need an extra stop on these tires or so, and people forget b4 that fateful slow stop and stint where things fell apart last year, he was on course to beat JB to 2nd in Malaysia.

Finally, it could rain throwing tyre issues out the window.

Fans complaining about Lewis attitude or head need to look at themselves first :lol:

Edited by bauss, 20 March 2012 - 16:45.


#750 slmk

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:48

No he won't. With the expected tire deg, he won't even finish in the top 5.


What is up with people, seriously? His tyre degradation was very similar to Jenson's. Gosh, the evidence is there (look at lap time charts). Why are people so stubborn all of a sudden?