Jump to content


Photo

2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4041 replies to this topic

#801 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 432 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:06

Are you saying there is no dirty air behind other cars?

20 years of F1 engineers have been lying!


I'm not sure how you draw from the two words you quoted that I don't believe that there is dirty air behind cars...



Advertisement

#802 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,785 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:15

Are you saying there is no dirty air behind other cars?


I rather think he's saying that the air isn't any dirtier behind Buttons car than behind all the other cars who were followed much closer than 3.5 secs, without any undue consequences for the pursuing drivers.

#803 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:27

Hamilton will still outqualify Button by a big margin this year, meaning if he could push the tyres during race like he did with the bridgestones he would beat Jenson fair and square. Of course my opinion.

Maybe you should start the '2012 imaginary Jenson vs Lewis on different tyres' scorecard.
Sounds like fun.

#804 BuzzingHornet

BuzzingHornet
  • Member

  • 5,999 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:43

Maybe you should start the '2012 imaginary Jenson vs Lewis on different tyres' scorecard.
Sounds like fun.


That's exactly what this thread is going to become :lol:

#805 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:10

Yea. Hamilton - if he wasn't losing, he'd be winning.

A lot of people still can't grasp how he can be faster in quali but not the race. Did none of you ever watch F1 before? Maybe Prost should not have his WDCs - I mean, it's just downright sneaky focusing on the race - not fair, especially since that's what you get all the points for.

Edited by GlenP, 21 March 2012 - 10:11.


#806 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,856 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:16

Yea. Hamilton - if he wasn't losing, he'd be winning.

A lot of people still can't grasp how he can be faster in quali but not the race. Did none of you ever watch F1 before? Maybe Prost should not have his WDCs - I mean, it's just downright sneaky focusing on the race - not fair, especially since that's what you get all the points for.


This is very true.... But I still can't for the life of me see how such conclusions can be made after the first race at one of the most "unusual" tracks on the calender, where Hamilton encountered a set of rather unfortunate circumstances.

It could have easily been the other way around had Hamilton got to turn 1 first.... And mark my words: The general thrust of the debate would have been "Wow. Look how Hamilton handles his tyres now". "Jenson is gonna get spanked this year" etc.....

Waaayyyyyyy to early to glean anything driver related from that race other than it's the usual suspects up there again.

#807 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:22

This is very true.... But I still can't for the life of me see how such conclusions can be made after the first race at one of the most "unusual" tracks on the calender, where Hamilton encountered a set of rather unfortunate circumstances.

It could have easily been the other way around had Hamilton got to turn 1 first.... And mark my words: The general thrust of the debate would have been "Wow. Look how Hamilton handles his tyres now". "Jenson is gonna get spanked this year" etc.....

Waaayyyyyyy to early to glean anything driver related from that race other than it's the usual suspects up there again.

I've said exactly the same already.

I was responding to the endless searching for excuses elsewhere in this thread - excuses which are entirely unnecessary if you accept the obvious: they are pretty evenly matched, Hamilton isn't perfect (neither is JB, before the whining starts), one of them had to win, and second place was only missed due to bad luck.

But. It isn't just one race (except strictly for the purposes of this thread) - they've had a pretty long spell together now.

#808 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,856 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:28

I've said exactly the same already.

I was responding to the endless searching for excuses elsewhere in this thread - excuses which are entirely unnecessary if you accept the obvious: they are pretty evenly matched, Hamilton isn't perfect (neither is JB, before the whining starts), one of them had to win, and second place was only missed due to bad luck.

But. It isn't just one race (except strictly for the purposes of this thread) - they've had a pretty long spell together now.


This is true. Button, Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso. All with their various strengths and weaknesses - and on any given day each of them are pretty much unbeatable.

It's gonna be an interesting season - that's for sure.

#809 Jeag

Jeag
  • Member

  • 963 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:35

Good first race for Jenson, looks like this car suits him well so far.

Lewis should bounce back in Sepang. Though I have no idea why even some of his most hardened of fans are ready to write him off just because of the first race of the season.

Bit silly to do that don't you think? Lewis will have races if not in Sepang but somewhere else where he will defeat Jenson very convincingly and then we all know what will happen in the thread. Suddenly Jenson's back to being the journeymen Driver that lucked into his WDC and Lewis is God's nutsack.

Fickle lot.

#810 windtravels

windtravels
  • Member

  • 901 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:47

Well said that man!

#811 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:53

Good first race for Jenson, looks like this car suits him well so far.

Lewis should bounce back in Sepang. Though I have no idea why even some of his most hardened of fans are ready to write him off just because of the first race of the season.

Bit silly to do that don't you think? Lewis will have races if not in Sepang but somewhere else where he will defeat Jenson very convincingly and then we all know what will happen in the thread. Suddenly Jenson's back to being the journeymen Driver that lucked into his WDC and Lewis is God's nutsack.

Fickle lot.

That's the nub of it all - not the fickleness, but the absurd need to reduce everything to one extreme or the other!

On balance, it looks like Jenson continues to be on the rise (possibly, bit early to tell, but leaning that way) - but that doesn't mean there won't be exceptions, and probably quite a few of them!

#812 mlsnoopy

mlsnoopy
  • Member

  • 2,356 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:02

Good first race for Jenson, looks like this car suits him well so far.

Lewis should bounce back in Sepang. Though I have no idea why even some of his most hardened of fans are ready to write him off just because of the first race of the season.

Bit silly to do that don't you think? Lewis will have races if not in Sepang but somewhere else where he will defeat Jenson very convincingly and then we all know what will happen in the thread. Suddenly Jenson's back to being the journeymen Driver that lucked into his WDC and Lewis is God's nutsack.

Fickle lot.


The problem is that for the last 2 years Button got proper support from the team. He a getts pitted at the right times and the team helps him to a better position. Where as Hamilton is constantly put on a wrong strategy, gets pitted at wrong times, they put wrong tyres on the car and so on. That is the problem. If Hamilton doesn't get some spuuprt from the team and they continue to lose him poitnts, there is not much that he can do.

#813 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,881 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:05

It's the first time Lewis gets beaten at the first race of the season since his first actual race in Formula 1. Of course Hamilton fans freak out a bit and start making silly statements.

#814 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:06

The problem is that for the last 2 years Button got proper support from the team. He a getts pitted at the right times and the team helps him to a better position. Where as Hamilton is constantly put on a wrong strategy, gets pitted at wrong times, they put wrong tyres on the car and so on. That is the problem. If Hamilton doesn't get some spuuprt from the team and they continue to lose him poitnts, there is not much that he can do.

So you think he should have switched to an extra stop at Melbourne then? Where do think he would have finished then?

#815 Racer Joe

Racer Joe
  • Member

  • 2,881 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:14

The problem is that for the last 2 years Button got proper support from the team. He a getts pitted at the right times and the team helps him to a better position. Where as Hamilton is constantly put on a wrong strategy, gets pitted at wrong times, they put wrong tyres on the car and so on. That is the problem. If Hamilton doesn't get some spuuprt from the team and they continue to lose him poitnts, there is not much that he can do.


How is it that Jenson always get "put on" the right strategies, have the right stops and make right tyre choices (or made for him :drunk: ) but poor Lewis doesn't? Why would McLaren get it so right with one driver but not the other?

Maybe the difference is Lewis himself?

#816 Lomo

Lomo
  • Member

  • 71 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:19

The problem is that for the last 2 years Button got proper support from the team. He a getts pitted at the right times and the team helps him to a better position. Where as Hamilton is constantly put on a wrong strategy, gets pitted at wrong times, they put wrong tyres on the car and so on. That is the problem. If Hamilton doesn't get some spuuprt from the team and they continue to lose him poitnts, there is not much that he can do.

The tragic thing is you actually genuinely believe this.

I'd bookmark this if I were you - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight

Edited by Lomo, 21 March 2012 - 11:20.


#817 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:22

Are you saying there is no dirty air behind other cars?

20 years of F1 engineers have been lying!

Maldonado was on Alonso's tail for 20 laps within a second gap,Webber behind Ham by the same margin,so this dirty air business is overrated.
Ham had no pace no matter what anyone says here,and he was cooking his rears faster than JB regardless of their relative times,JB was simply controlling the race,no unnecessary risks.

#818 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:30

This is very true.... But I still can't for the life of me see how such conclusions can be made after the first race at one of the most "unusual" tracks on the calender, where Hamilton encountered a set of rather unfortunate circumstances.

It could have easily been the other way around had Hamilton got to turn 1 first.... And mark my words: The general thrust of the debate would have been "Wow. Look how Hamilton handles his tyres now". "Jenson is gonna get spanked this year" etc.....

Waaayyyyyyy to early to glean anything driver related from that race other than it's the usual suspects up there again.

Mav,last year in OZ I'd be high fiving you mate and arguing trogggy to death saying how true,but not this year,not this race,JB would have passed LH within 2-3 laps,mark my words.Even when JB has passed LH in the past (Turkey) Ham fought right back,last race he had nothing.Nada.

#819 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:31

Mav,last year in OZ I'd be high fiving you mate and arguing trogggy to death saying how true,but not this year,not this race,JB would have passed LH within 2-3 laps,mark my words.Even when JB has passed LH in the past (Turkey) Ham fought right back,last race he had nothing.Nada.

You wouldn't, because I agree with everything maverick put in that post.

Advertisement

#820 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,852 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:32

This is very true.... But I still can't for the life of me see how such conclusions can be made after the first race at one of the most "unusual" tracks on the calender, where Hamilton encountered a set of rather unfortunate circumstances.

It could have easily been the other way around had Hamilton got to turn 1 first.... And mark my words: The general thrust of the debate would have been "Wow. Look how Hamilton handles his tyres now". "Jenson is gonna get spanked this year" etc.....

Waaayyyyyyy to early to glean anything driver related from that race other than it's the usual suspects up there again.

:up:

#821 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:32

There must have been a set up difference, is all I can conclude. We've seen the preferences before - maybe Hamilton likes to run as little wing as possible without hurting performance in the corners too much (and liking the car moving about), whereas Button likes to have as much wing as possible, without hurting the straightline (liking the car planted). That might be a gross oversimplification (or even wrong!), but that's how it seems to me - and it seems to me pretty obvious which approach is better in the race!

#822 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:38

You wouldn't, because I agree with everything maverick put in that post.

So Ham did have JB's pace but was rather unfortunate?And I don't mean losing 2nd I already ranted about that, but rather not winning or beating Jenson.

#823 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 5,067 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:39

you know the hysteria has reached absurd levels when you start having numerous fans of driver A argue in favor of the driver B :lol:

#824 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,856 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:43

Mav,last year in OZ I'd be high fiving you mate and arguing trogggy to death saying how true,but not this year,not this race,JB would have passed LH within 2-3 laps,mark my words.Even when JB has passed LH in the past (Turkey) Ham fought right back,last race he had nothing.Nada.


It happens! JB is wiley old fox and it's apparent that he's finally turned into the world class/top tier driver that he was threatening to do all of those years ago when he arrived on a wave of hype and ultimately didn't deliver. Now without doubt he is one of the four Top Trumps in the pack and Hamilton is gonna have to not only drive to his full potential - but have a little luck on the way to win the battle. Quite simply he is in no way going to beat JB every race. Look at all of the great driver pairings for example: Prost/Lauda. Prost/Senna. Mansell/Piquet etc.....

When he does though I will be high fiving - and I still do feel that he will take the title.

Edited by maverick69, 21 March 2012 - 11:46.


#825 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:43

So Ham did have JB's pace but was rather unfortunate?And I don't mean losing 2nd I already ranted about that, but rather not winning or beating Jenson.

No, JB had more pace. Doesn't mean it would have been enough to get past if he hadn't done it at the start. Maybe yes, maybe no.

#826 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:44

you know the hysteria has reached absurd levels when you start having numerous fans of driver A argue in favor of the driver B :lol:

:lol:
We're classy like that.

#827 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:49

No, JB had more pace. Doesn't mean it would have been enough to get past if he hadn't done it at the start. Maybe yes, maybe no.

:up: Fair enough.There are no absolutes and maybe is right.
OT maybe means yes in some countries,so I'll take that as a yes :D

It happens! JB is wiley old fox and it's apparent that he's finally turned into the world class/top tier driver that he was threatening to do all of those years ago when he arrived on a wave of hype and ultimately didn't deliver. Now without doubt he is one of the four Top Trumps in the pack and Hamilton is gonna have to not only drive to his full potential - but have a little luck on the way to win the battle. Quite simply he is in no way going to beat JB every race. Look at all of the great driver pairings for example: Prost/Lauda. Prost/Senna. Mansell/Piquet etc.....

When he does though I will be high fiving - and I still do feel that he will take the title.


The trend is worrying, and I know Lewis had a bad year and all so that's why I thought he needed to make a statement and that last year's ''clueless'' races were gone,but it continued and we saw yet again an unhappy Lewis(not judging),since Hungary last year JB has 186 pts/3 wins/9 out of 10 podiums whilst Lewis has 108 pts/1 win and 3 out of 10 podiums.

I hope he wins Sepang because another disappointment will crush him me thinks.

Edited by fieraku, 21 March 2012 - 12:03.


#828 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,069 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:09

The problem is that for the last 2 years Button got proper support from the team. He a getts pitted at the right times and the team helps him to a better position. Where as Hamilton is constantly put on a wrong strategy, gets pitted at wrong times, they put wrong tyres on the car and so on. That is the problem. If Hamilton doesn't get some spuuprt from the team and they continue to lose him poitnts, there is not much that he can do.


Sorry, but in Aus what should McLaren have done differently with pit strategy?

Should they have pitted him before Jenson? the flaws with that option are so obvious Im not going to expalin them.

Should they have been extra specially nice to the Caterham and then asked it not to break down for a few more laps?

There has been one race in 2012 so far. Lewis will do fine. People need to get a grip, stop looking for excuses for a man who does not need them - he can do the tyres thing I am sure, Jenson was just faster on a track he always seems to go well at these days, and he was unlucky with strategy this weekend, there is nothing more to it than that. Lewis will win plenty, he is not broken and McLaren dont hate him.

Im a Jenson fan and just a little shocked by all this. I feel embarassed for the reaction of some Lewis fans in a completely different way to usual. Its not insane hype or insane defence of the boy this year, its insane wrist slashing misery. Its so misplaced this early on.


#829 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,881 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:23

:lol:
We're classy like that.

Ah just wait until you get called a blind Button fanboy, then you know you've done it!

#830 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:39

Ah just wait until you get called a blind Button fanboy, then you know you've done it!


My respect for JB has gone up-up-up these past years,I was a none believer. I was watching 2011 Abbu Dhabi yesterday and during his wheel2wheel with Webber, Hobbbs said "MW is taking no prisoners...ohhhhh...but JB is giving none back" and I remember saying if JB was more aggressive I'd had been his fan long ago,he seemed too timid/safe/take no chances type of driver and I'm a fan of styles,which JB has certainly upgraded IMO.

I think he's learned or emulated some of Hamilton's traits and LH some of JB's,maybe that explains all the confusion?

#831 techspeed

techspeed
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 13:57

Lewis should bounce back in Sepang. Though I have no idea why even some of his most hardened of fans are ready to write him off just because of the first race of the season.

Because a lot of them do believe

Suddenly Jenson's back to being the journeymen Driver that lucked into his WDC and Lewis is God's nutsack.

but now they are having to rethink the situation based on reality, hopefully it will eventually sink in and the various fanboys will come to the conclusion there isn't much between them after all. Every so often Button has a nightmare race, and every so often Hamilton has one. Some races Button will dominate, some races Hamilton will dominate.

Throwing excuses at the situation blaming the pit crew, Andy Latham, Lewis's car mechanics, McLarens strategy engineers, the chef who cooked his lunch, the person who ironed his overalls, etc, etc, is just trying to hang on to their opinion rather than accept what we see on track. As if for some bizarre reason McLaren would deliberately throw away constructor championship points (and therefore a lot of money) just to prevent one of their drivers from finishing as high as he can due to personal favouritism by one member of the senior management.

I don't care which one is the 'greatest ever', 'fastest ever', whatever. I'm just happy McLaren has the two best drivers on the grid racing for them.



#832 ermo

ermo
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 14:41

There is no doubt that an on song Lewis Hamilton is a joy to watch on a race track -- that's how his ardent supporters fell in love with him in the first place. And most observers generally agree that Lewis has the upper hand in pure out-and-out pace, as well as the balance window in which he can make the car work for him and I'm not one to argue those two points.

But how many Lewis Hamilton fans would be willing to entertain the thought that maybe Jenson Button is slightly better than Lewis Hamilton at e.g. seeing the big picture in a race and making his planned strategy, as well as changes to the planned strategy necessitated by changing circumstances on track, work?

This weekend in Aus, Lewis finished on the podium and appeared to not quite be able to get the car working for him as well as Jenson did in the race (for whatever reason), yet he didn't lose his head and punt someone else off the track like he did on a few occasions last year. For heaven's sake, he got home with 15 points on the board, which means that on an unlucky day (were it not for bad luck, he could have finished 2nd), he only lost 10 points to Jenson, when he could well have lost all 25. Sure, he had a bit of sulk after the race, but once the dust has settled you would think that his manager would remind him that sh*t happens and that he should just get on with the business of delivering those stunning drives that we all know that he's capable of producing.

I predict that Jenson and Lewis will push each other all season long, and on the basis of a sample of one, I think it is a bit premature to paint Lewis out of the picture for a 2nd title.

Edited by ermo, 21 March 2012 - 14:46.


#833 mlsnoopy

mlsnoopy
  • Member

  • 2,356 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 14:57

So you think he should have switched to an extra stop at Melbourne then? Where do think he would have finished then?


So how did you come to the conclusion if Button and Hamilton would have pitted one lap earlier that Hamilton would have needed one extra stop. Do tell me. Hamilton would have keept a nice 10s gap to Vettel, would need to hunt him down trying to pass him after the safety car. Sorry but your argument is nonsence.

How is it that Jenson always get "put on" the right strategies, have the right stops and make right tyre choices (or made for him :drunk: ) but poor Lewis doesn't? Why would McLaren get it so right with one driver but not the other?

Maybe the difference is Lewis himself?


Maybe. But for example last year in Malaysia Hamilton wanted to use the 3rd set of options but the team over ruled him. And there are more examples of Hamilton wanting one thing but the team doing something else.

The tragic thing is you actually genuinely believe this.

I'd bookmark this if I were you - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight


It's not what you belive but what you can prove. Going back over the last 2 seasons there are more than enough examples of the team waiting to long to pit him, sending him out in qualifaying at the wrong time, not using the right tyres,...... and there are more than enough examples of the team helping Button to a good result.

Sorry, but in Aus what should McLaren have done differently with pit strategy?

Should they have pitted him before Jenson? the flaws with that option are so obvious Im not going to expalin them.

Should they have been extra specially nice to the Caterham and then asked it not to break down for a few more laps?

There has been one race in 2012 so far. Lewis will do fine. People need to get a grip, stop looking for excuses for a man who does not need them - he can do the tyres thing I am sure, Jenson was just faster on a track he always seems to go well at these days, and he was unlucky with strategy this weekend, there is nothing more to it than that. Lewis will win plenty, he is not broken and McLaren dont hate him.

Im a Jenson fan and just a little shocked by all this. I feel embarassed for the reaction of some Lewis fans in a completely different way to usual. Its not insane hype or insane defence of the boy this year, its insane wrist slashing misery. Its so misplaced this early on.


They should have pitted both drivers one lap earlier, Button on lap 15 Hamilton on lap 16. That way they would have gotten a nice 1-2 victory. But by waiting to long for the 1st stop, they gifted Vettel 3 points, points that could come back and hurt them.

#834 revlec

revlec
  • Member

  • 2,721 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 15:04

My respect for JB has gone up-up-up these past years,I was a none believer. I was watching 2011 Abbu Dhabi yesterday and during his wheel2wheel with Webber, Hobbbs said "MW is taking no prisoners...ohhhhh...but JB is giving none back" and I remember saying if JB was more aggressive I'd had been his fan long ago,he seemed too timid/safe/take no chances type of driver and I'm a fan of styles,which JB has certainly upgraded IMO.

I think he's learned or emulated some of Hamilton's traits and LH some of JB's,maybe that explains all the confusion?


Using a Wall street analogy, to me it looks like you want to make a "quick buck".
You better jump off the ship now and buy the stock before the price hit its high. :smoking:

Edited by revlec, 21 March 2012 - 15:06.


#835 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 15:11

So how did you come to the conclusion if Button and Hamilton would have pitted one lap earlier that Hamilton would have needed one extra stop. Do tell me. Hamilton would have keept a nice 10s gap to Vettel, would need to hunt him down trying to pass him after the safety car. Sorry but your argument is nonsence.

It isn't just one stop, is it? He goes early for stop one (wouldn't be one lap early, surely two?) then presumably early for the next one and the next one - before you know it you're five or six laps out of kilter vs the strategy and the tyres go off the cliff in the last stint. All this in the first full race distance on this tyre combination on an ever-changing track. If you think Hamilton has all that worked out better than McLaren then it is you that are talking nonsense.

#836 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 21 March 2012 - 15:19

They should have pitted both drivers one lap earlier, Button on lap 15 Hamilton on lap 16. That way they would have gotten a nice 1-2 victory. But by waiting to long for the 1st stop, they gifted Vettel 3 points, points that could come back and hurt them.

You are saying they should have hopped into their McLaren Time Machine™, run forward to the end of the race, checked to see if their final stint tyres would hold up and not go off the cliff, then back in the Time Machine and subtract whatever laps were needed to keep Hamilton happy?

Here's an alternative to that, which could have been achieved without time travel - how about Hamilton uses his widely vaunted overtaking skills to get past the Sauber which is on old tyres?

#837 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,852 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 15:27

http://www.f1fanatic...yres-extremely/

Interesting new information:

Lewis:

Afterwards, I sat down with my engineers and we went through all the data. There was a small issue with the clutch at the start: it wasn’t my fault, but we now understand and know how to improve in the future.

My race pace was pretty much identical to Jenson’s, but he was able to switch the tyres on extremely well, which explains how he was able to pull a gap so quickly at the start and also after the restart.”
“It’s encouraging and reassuring to understand the reasons for our race pace in Australia, and it puts me in a really positive frame of mind for the race in Malaysia. Plus, it always helps to be back in the car only five days after the last grand prix – you move on so quickly.”


So it wasn't a mistake off the line, but a clutch problem for Lewis. Unlucky but these things happen, and I'm sure Jenson won't be able to go the whole season without a similar problem occurring, whether it will prove to be as costly is another thing. Annoying as hell though because it probably cost him the win.

The point about the race pace is pretty much what most of us have been saying, although it is reasurring to know that the gap Jenson pulled at the beginning was down to him being able to get the heat into his tyres earlier and not an outright pace advantage.

Also kudos to JB for nailing the set-up and overcoming what last year would have been considered two of his weaknesses, qualifying and getting heat into his tyres , and to have done in such a short space of time is to his credit. Hopefully in Malaysia the team will be able to use all the practice sessions, and so avoid these problems along with any underfueling errors.

Bring on Sepang :cool:

Edited: for extremely poor grammar.

Edited by Kvothe, 21 March 2012 - 15:43.


#838 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,118 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 15:40

http://www.f1fanatic...yres-extremely/

Interesting new information:

Lewis:



So it wasn't a mistake off the line, but a clutch problem for Lewis. Unlucky but these things happen, and I'm sure Jenson won't be able to go the whole season without a similar problem occurring, whether it will prove to be as costly is another thing. Annoying as hell though because it probably cost him the win.

The point about the race pace is pretty much what most of us have been saying, although it is reasurring to know that the gap Jenson pulled at the beginning was down to him being able to get the heat into his tyres earlier and not an outright pace advantage.

Also kudos to JB for nailing the set-up and overcoming what last would have been considered two of his weaknesses, qualifying and getting heat into his tyres and in such a short space of time. Hopefully in Malaysia the team will be able to use all the practice sessions, and so avoid these problems along with any underfueling errors.

Bring on Sepang :cool:


Good post :up:  ;)

#839 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,856 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 21 March 2012 - 15:51

http://www.f1fanatic...yres-extremely/

Interesting new information:

Lewis:



So it wasn't a mistake off the line, but a clutch problem for Lewis. Unlucky but these things happen, and I'm sure Jenson won't be able to go the whole season without a similar problem occurring, whether it will prove to be as costly is another thing. Annoying as hell though because it probably cost him the win.

The point about the race pace is pretty much what most of us have been saying, although it is reasurring to know that the gap Jenson pulled at the beginning was down to him being able to get the heat into his tyres earlier and not an outright pace advantage.

Also kudos to JB for nailing the set-up and overcoming what last year would have been considered two of his weaknesses, qualifying and getting heat into his tyres , and to have done in such a short space of time is to his credit. Hopefully in Malaysia the team will be able to use all the practice sessions, and so avoid these problems along with any underfueling errors.

Bring on Sepang :cool:

Edited: for extremely poor grammar.


Probably gonna fall on a lot of deaf ears - The regular bashers..... and the Hamilton fans who've committed hara-kiri :smoking:

Advertisement

#840 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 16:08

Using a Wall street analogy, to me it looks like you want to make a "quick buck".
You better jump off the ship now and buy the stock before the price hit its high. :smoking:


I'm no traitor and my loyalty to Ham is undisputed,but we can't sit here and act like this is the same JB from 5 years ago or the same LH as well for that matter.
I'm sure I'm not alone in my views.

#841 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 432 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 21 March 2012 - 16:56

http://www.f1fanatic...yres-extremely/

Interesting new information:

Lewis:



So it wasn't a mistake off the line, but a clutch problem for Lewis. Unlucky but these things happen, and I'm sure Jenson won't be able to go the whole season without a similar problem occurring, whether it will prove to be as costly is another thing. Annoying as hell though because it probably cost him the win.

The point about the race pace is pretty much what most of us have been saying, although it is reasurring to know that the gap Jenson pulled at the beginning was down to him being able to get the heat into his tyres earlier and not an outright pace advantage.

Also kudos to JB for nailing the set-up and overcoming what last year would have been considered two of his weaknesses, qualifying and getting heat into his tyres , and to have done in such a short space of time is to his credit. Hopefully in Malaysia the team will be able to use all the practice sessions, and so avoid these problems along with any underfueling errors.

Bring on Sepang :cool:

Edited: for extremely poor grammar.


Whitmarsh had already alluded to the start issue in post-race coverage.

I'm not sure how Lewis is comparing race pace - whether it's fuel saving weighted or not. Bottom line is - he would say that, wouldn't he.

#842 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,785 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:09

Whitmarsh had already alluded to the start issue in post-race coverage.

I'm not sure how Lewis is comparing race pace - whether it's fuel saving weighted or not. Bottom line is - he would say that, wouldn't he.


Yeah, the way LH argues he could well be one of his fans.  ;)

#843 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • Member

  • 3,558 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:09

Whitmarsh had already alluded to the start issue in post-race coverage.

I'm not sure how Lewis is comparing race pace - whether it's fuel saving weighted or not. Bottom line is - he would say that, wouldn't he.

If Lewis's word is to be taken for it then Australia was merely a one-off. As I've said several times before, though, I prefer to let the racing do the talking. :D

#844 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,852 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:19

If Lewis's word is to be taken for it then Australia was merely a one-off. As I've said several times before, though, I prefer to let the racing do the talking. :D


Lewis said his race pace was identical, not that he was faster, so there is no implication that this was a one off result.

Edited by Kvothe, 21 March 2012 - 17:20.


#845 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,118 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:19

Whitmarsh had already alluded to the start issue in post-race coverage.

I'm not sure how Lewis is comparing race pace - whether it's fuel saving weighted or not. Bottom line is - he would say that, wouldn't he.


I don't think he would. Lewis is the sort of guy who keeps quiet after mistakes or disappointment, (don't bring Monaco last year into this as that was anger at FIA's actions, which he felt were unjust), like in the post race interviews last week when he assumed he mucked up the start, so I don't think he would in fact say that, my point is he obviously believes it to be genuine or he would have said nothing.

Also there were graphs posted of race pace comparisons, not sure what thread, and other than as Lewis said, JB switching the tyres on better, they were very similarly matched.

Edited by Markn93, 21 March 2012 - 17:25.


#846 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,881 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:26

My respect for JB has gone up-up-up these past years,I was a none believer. I was watching 2011 Abbu Dhabi yesterday and during his wheel2wheel with Webber, Hobbbs said "MW is taking no prisoners...ohhhhh...but JB is giving none back" and I remember saying if JB was more aggressive I'd had been his fan long ago,he seemed too timid/safe/take no chances type of driver and I'm a fan of styles,which JB has certainly upgraded IMO.

I think he's learned or emulated some of Hamilton's traits and LH some of JB's,maybe that explains all the confusion?

I like how Jenson has turned a lot of opinions around and made my belief in him since 10 years ago a bit more valuable. :D

And yeah, hard to argue they haven't learned from each other.

#847 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:28

Lewis said his race pace was identical, not that he was faster, so there is no implication that this was a one off result.

He did presumably say it, but it wasn't, was it?

Edited by trogggy, 21 March 2012 - 17:28.


#848 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,881 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:29

Lewis:
"My race pace was pretty much identical to Jenson’s, but he was able to switch the tyres on extremely well, which explains how he was able to pull a gap so quickly at the start and also after the restart.”

Wow, never read that comment about Jenson, ever!

#849 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,881 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:29

He did presumably say it, but it wasn't, was it?

Well it was, after Lewis turned his tyres 'on'.

#850 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:30

Well it was, after Lewis turned his tyres 'on'.

:lol:
Actually what I mean by that is it wasn't just the first couple of laps.

Edited by trogggy, 21 March 2012 - 17:31.