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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#51 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:26

Can hardly reach the forum this morning but here it goes....

Nothing negative about this qualifying. Their forms haven't really changed much from last season, if anything Jenson is closer than I expected based on last year.

I don't see the win slipping away from Hamilton. Due to the lack of tyre complaints this weekend I expect them to last long enough for Lewis to not get into any trouble.

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#52 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:28

If jenson wants to beat lewis he has to get him at the start.

It would be a first at this circuit! ;)

#53 ImDDAA

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:31

Jensons racecraft is very good, he is very fast but also calm.

Lewis, fast some times, erratic most times.


I wouldn't say he's erratic most times - last year was his worst ever, go back and look at how many DNF's he had. I would agree that he's erratic far too much and if he wants to be champion again then he's got to cut it out of his game.

#54 jrg19

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:37

Great laps from both the boys today. :up:

#55 ImDDAA

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:37

Did Lewis mess up his second lap or did he pull out of it? Great start for Jenson, a small sign that he might have stepped up his qualifying form which was one of his few weaker points last year.

#56 tifosiMac

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:38

Both drivers looking excellent for the race. Nice one :)

#57 Lazy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:38

Impressive from Lewis to get the pole at the 1st attempt, lets hope for a great battle miles in front of all the rest :)

#58 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:39

I would agree that he's erratic far too much and if he wants to be champion again then he's got to cut it out of his game.

Or simply keep scoring poles and reducing fights to an absolute minimum. That's how Vettel did it.

#59 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:40

Did Lewis mess up his second lap or did he pull out of it?

They told him he could find time in S2 but I believe he lost a second there and then pulled out of it.

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#60 jjcale

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:41

Folks ... for the next few races (at last until Barca) ... and possibly to the end of the season God willing, we are going to be seeing Senna v Prost mark II .... As a Macca fan, I have been dreaming about this since Mid 2010 when I realised just how good JB really is.

Please dont hate on the guy you dont support.... this is going to be a treat for the true fans of F1. :clap:



#61 Kvothe

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:42

Did Lewis mess up his second lap or did he pull out of it? Great start for Jenson, a small sign that he might have stepped up his qualifying form which was one of his few weaker points last year.


I think he messed it up. Live timing showed he did a 28.7 (having done 28.3 for the pole lap) in the first sector, I think after that he knew he was not going to beat his time and instead chose to conserve the tyres.

Edited by Kvothe, 17 March 2012 - 08:43.


#62 ImDDAA

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:43

Or simply keep scoring poles and reducing fights to an absolute minimum. That's how Vettel did it.


That would require car development to remain static - something outside of his control, what he can control is how he approaches each race. If the Red Bull ends up the fastest car by Europe or even the next race he's going to find himself in the pack, we've seen in years past that's been no obstacle to him performing well but last year he let too many mistakes creep in.

#63 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:43

Monster lap by Hamilton !!

Enough said :cool: .

#64 ImDDAA

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:46

I think he messed it up. Live timing showed he did a 28.7 (having done 28.3 for the pole lap) in the first sector, I think after that he knew he was not going to beat his time and instead chose to conserve the tyres.


Not the best sign then. I think Lewis isn't as clinical as Vettel when it comes to setting those final laps under intense pressure. Of course, when he sets such a strong first lap it ends up not mattering. Still, it's just one lap, let's see how things unfold.

#65 topical

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:46

Folks ... for the next few races (at last until Barca) ... and possibly to the end of the season God willing, we are going to be seeing Senna v Prost mark II .... As a Macca fan, I have been dreaming about this since Mid 2010 when I realised just how good JB really is.

Please dont hate on the guy you dont support.... this is going to be a treat for the true fans of F1. :clap:


Senna vs Prost Mark II was Hamilton vs Alonso in 2007. Button isn't in the same class, he just got lucky last year because Hamilton was off the boil. I expect this year will be a very different story.

#66 Sevach

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:46

Hamilton was mega today :up:

#67 icecream_man

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:48

A truly monster lap by Hamilton. :up: It's no secret Hamilton is faster than Button, but the points are given out on Sunday. These tyres and managing degradation plays into Button's strength and masks his lack of speed. One thing is sure, it;s going to be close. If they were using Bridgestones, I would have already written Buttons obituary. Qualifying;1-0 to Hammy.


You speak as if there's a significant difference in their speed, but despite that "truly monster lap" Jenson was only 1 tenth behind, yes I concede that's 1-0 to Hamilton, but it was hell of a close and for someone who's recognised to have possibly the fastest outright raw speed, and in the replay it was a very very clean and tidy lap, I thought Jenson did an awesome job to be so close

#68 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:49

Senna vs Prost Mark II was Hamilton vs Alonso in 2007. Button isn't in the same class, he just got lucky last year because Hamilton was off the boil. I expect this year will be a very different story.

No 2007 was more Senna vs. Senna. Button is a good, consistent, point scoring driver. With the right car he is more than capable of bringing home the championship. But just as with Senna and Prost, Lewis is notably faster than Button but equally makes more mistakes. I think the Senna vs. Prost analogy fits nicely.

#69 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:50

Hamilton was mega today :up:

When on form he is the best driver on the grid. Better than Alonso, Vettel, anyone. Such a great talent :) .

#70 Boxerevo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:53

Senna vs Prost Mark II was Hamilton vs Alonso in 2007. Button isn't in the same class, he just got lucky last year because Hamilton was off the boil. I expect this year will be a very different story.

This is bs.

Button is as good as Alonso or Vettel on the championship game.

The dude don't make mistakes ! So he is a eternal pain in the ...

Our luck is that Ham will only meet some drivers lapping them.

Edited by Boxerevo, 17 March 2012 - 08:54.


#71 Kvothe

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:53

Not the best sign then. I think Lewis isn't as clinical as Vettel when it comes to setting those final laps under intense pressure. Of course, when he sets such a strong first lap it ends up not mattering. Still, it's just one lap, let's see how things unfold.


Indeed, it was a rather scrappy way to get it. Tomorrow goings to be nightmare nerves wise what with the pirelli tyres and DRS. The only positive point is that the poleman has never been beaton into the first corner.

#72 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:54

Can't get much closer than that. 1-0 to Lewis but I hope this sets the scene for the year.

#73 icecream_man

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:54

No 2007 was more Senna vs. Senna. Button is a good, consistent, point scoring driver. With the right car he is more than capable of bringing home the championship. But just as with Senna and Prost, Lewis is notably faster than Button but equally makes more mistakes. I think the Senna vs. Prost analogy fits nicely.


Again, as I said above, 1 tenth.... notably faster ? now lets be realistic here, 1 tenth is not notable by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:

#74 Kvothe

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:58

No 2007 was more Senna vs. Senna. Button is a good, consistent, point scoring driver. With the right car he is more than capable of bringing home the championship. But just as with Senna and Prost, Lewis is notably faster than Button but equally makes more mistakes. I think the Senna vs. Prost analogy fits nicely.


How about just Lewis v Jenson? We don't need to clothe them in the great names of the past to describe just how epic their fight will be. It does them both a disservice. Both have different strengths and weakness and it will be unforgettable a pleasure to watch.

Edit: edited for sentence coherence...I should probably go to sleep.

Edited by Kvothe, 17 March 2012 - 09:01.


#75 itsademo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:58

Folks ... for the next few races (at last until Barca) ... and possibly to the end of the season God willing, we are going to be seeing Senna v Prost mark II .... As a Macca fan, I have been dreaming about this since Mid 2010 when I realised just how good JB really is.

Please dont hate on the guy you dont support.... this is going to be a treat for the true fans of F1. :clap:

who could hate Jenson when he is going to push Lewis to new hights?
the person who unlike Alonso is capable of fighting really hard but fair...
and not losing his head.

We have the dream team!

2 great drivers able to compete not needing help!

But lets wait till turn 1,
So others will see two great drivers in the same car not using team orders, to show how real racing happens, not fixed by shallow teams who are more intrested in marketing than real racing.


This is McLaren, its about racing.

Edited by itsademo, 17 March 2012 - 09:05.


#76 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:58

Again, as I said above, 1 tenth.... notably faster ? now lets be realistic here, 1 tenth is not notable by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:

1,5 tenth, it's something, not the difference in weight distribution. And Jenson did have a mistake free lap AFAIK, but on a day like this he's not going to outperform Lewis.

#77 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:59

How about just Lewis v Jenson? We don't need to clothe them in the great names of the past to describe just how epic their fight will be. It does them both a disservice. Both have different strengths and weakness and it will be unforgettable to watch.

Totally agree. :up:

#78 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:05

Again, as I said above, 1 tenth.... notably faster ? now lets be realistic here, 1 tenth is not notable by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:

Lewis had more to bring. Just look at his pole lap and you can see there is more time to come from it - which he obviously would have gone for on his second run (which of course he didn't complete). Either way Lewis regularly and consistently out qualifies Button so I don't see your point.

However over the course of a season (as we saw last year) they are quite close. That is because Lewis is quicker but generally makes mistakes and costs himself points, whereas Button is slower but brings the points home more consistently. Don't get me wrong Button is quick and I like Button, but Lewis (on form especially) is better.

Oh and when I say 'notably faster' I don't mean greatly faster, simply noticeably faster. It is obvious Lewis is the faster driver. Even Button has admitted that for crying out loud.

#79 ImDDAA

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:06

Again, as I said above, 1 tenth.... notably faster ? now lets be realistic here, 1 tenth is not notable by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:


It's the difference between 1st and 2nd which in my book is notable. If you were just 1 tenth faster over the entire race distance you'd score 7 more points, you'd have another winners trophy to take home and another win to add to your record.

I agree with you essentially though, Jenson was very fast today and if he can keep that up he will beat Hamilton in qualifying a fair amount this year.

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#80 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:06

You speak as if there's a significant difference in their speed, but despite that "truly monster lap" Jenson was only 1 tenth behind, yes I concede that's 1-0 to Hamilton, but it was hell of a close and for someone who's recognised to have possibly the fastest outright raw speed, and in the replay it was a very very clean and tidy lap, I thought Jenson did an awesome job to be so close


Hamilton didn't complete his 2nd run, so who knows how much he had left?


#81 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:06

How about just Lewis v Jenson? We don't need to clothe them in the great names of the past to describe just how epic their fight will be. It does them both a disservice. Both have different strengths and weakness and it will be unforgettable a pleasure to watch.

Edit: edited for sentence coherence...I should probably go to sleep.

I agree. But the Senna vs Prost comparison is a fitting analogy if one were to be made.

#82 Nigol

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:09

Again, as I said above, 1 tenth.... notably faster ? now lets be realistic here, 1 tenth is not notable by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:


1,5 tenths on a slower track.

#83 theTruth

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:15

Button is as good as Alonso or Vettel on the championship game.

The dude don't make mistakes ! So he is a eternal pain in the ...

:lol: That's not quite how I would have put it, but . . . .

#84 ImDDAA

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:18

:lol: That's not quite how I would have put it, but . . . .


Button is a very measured driver but he's also exciting and ruthless at times - did you not see Canada last year? I don't know how any fan of racing could fail to appreciate just what a spectacular drive that was.

#85 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:19

Two drivers separated by a hair's breadth and people claiming one-upmanship on a day when every Mclaren fan has to be proud of the team and its drivers.. i would say the guys back at the factory, the race team the drivers and the management need to be applauded for a marvelous effort..

Edited by xtremespeedjunkie, 17 March 2012 - 09:21.


#86 icecream_man

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:20

Two drivers separated by a hair's breadth and people claiming one-upmanship on a day when every Mclaren fan has to be proud of the team and its drivers.. i would say the guys back at the factory, the race team the drivers and the management needs to be applauded for a marvelous effort..


Quite right :up:

#87 revlec

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:22

But lets wait till turn 1


I'm afraid of this because we have Grosjean and Schumacher in the mix. Tomorrow, someone will not finish the race or may need a new nose. :|

#88 revlec

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:25

It's all relative, because at this same track in 2010, BUT was way faster than HAM in all sessions(qualifying).
After yesterday FP1, i was sure BUT will have been in pole today. But hey, i was wrong.

Edited by Buttoneer, 17 March 2012 - 14:39.


#89 icecream_man

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:31

It's all relative, because at this same track in 2010, BUT was way faster than HAM in all sessions.
After yesterday FP1, i was sure BUT will have been in pole today. But hey, i was wrong.


Well that's very true, but then last year wasn't Hamilton's year, this weekend he's clearly been on top form, he didn't put a single step wrong yet there was barely a gnat's whisker in it in the end.
It'll be interesting to see how the race pans out !

#90 Jeag

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:32

Nice qualifying by the two guys. Good to have a new season under-way. Hope this thread doesn't descend into madness like the previous 2 years.

#91 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:21

Awesome job by both,lets race clean now and finish 1-2

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#92 TeamMacca

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:23

You do know Lewis was up on his pole lap until pitting when pole was secured.

#93 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:26

You do know Lewis was up on his pole lap until pitting when pole was secured.

Prove it.

#94 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:32

You do know Lewis was up on his pole lap until pitting when pole was secured.

The track gets faster by the second,so his pole wasn't secured,and this is common knowledge.

#95 WitnessX

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:43

You do know Lewis was up on his pole lap until pitting when pole was secured.


Strange, he said this at the conference:
"..My lap was a good lap, obviously. The second time I tried to brake 10 metres later at turn one, but it didn't work. But fortunately, my first lap was good enough."

#96 trogggy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:44

You do know Lewis was up on his pole lap until pitting when pole was secured.

Timings don't seem to support that.

I think he messed it up. Live timing showed he did a 28.7 (having done 28.3 for the pole lap) in the first sector, I think after that he knew he was not going to beat his time and instead chose to conserve the tyres.

It looked like they both drove great laps. No shock that LH was a bit quicker. I just hope the two of them get a good clean start tomorrow, so there's no confusion at the first corner and they can both get on with it. It'll be interesting to see whether Jenson keeps up over the first stint, LH looked to have an advantage there last year. Hope he can, obviously.


#97 Rocket73

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:47

Awesome job by both,lets race clean now and finish 1-2

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great photo nice one :)

#98 BinaryDad

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:47

The track gets faster by the second,so his pole wasn't secured,and this is common knowledge.


Hmm...given that Button set his time a minute or two after Hamilton, that's not exactly helping the case of those protesting about people uses of words to describe the speed differential.

Still...a tenth ahead of your team mate in the same machinery, especially when it was the first timed lap, is pretty good. And I seem to remember that Lewis was improving on that, but pitted as quali finished.

** edit ** Oh yeah....as other have pointed out, he flubbed it. Oh well.

A good days work from both drivers.

Edited by BinaryDad, 17 March 2012 - 12:48.


#99 trogggy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:50

Hmm...given that Button set his time a minute or two after Hamilton, that's not exactly helping the case of those protesting about people uses of words to describe the speed differential.

Still...a tenth ahead of your team mate in the same machinery, especially when it was the first timed lap, is pretty good. And I seem to remember that Lewis was improving on that, but pitted as quali finished.

A good days work from both drivers.

Again, live timing doesn't support that, unless Kvothe has his figures wrong.

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#100 as65p

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:54

Two drivers separated by a hair's breadth and people claiming one-upmanship on a day when every Mclaren fan has to be proud of the team and its drivers.. i would say the guys back at the factory, the race team the drivers and the management need to be applauded for a marvelous effort..


:up:

Two drivers qualifying one-two less that two tenths apart... it should be obvious that they got a great car and also that both guys did a great job.