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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#1151 GlenP

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:06

Are we likely to see the BBC and Sky acknowledge this type of perception or is it based on ones biased forum view? That isn't a trick question.

No - this is directed solely at certain people who cannot attribute any failing to Lewis and have to find error with the team when he doesn't win, and who equally can find no acknowledgement of any contribution other than that of Lewis when he does win.

Of course, you already knew that.

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#1152 PNSD

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:07

You mean hold station so that Hamilton is first, even if Button has a better start? Ho does that tally with your first paragraph?


Well Jenson will want to get past! But I cant help but think both drivers will get orders to go easy on each other. That first turn and the following left are dangerous off the line.

If Jenson starts better than he has no choice but to go for the lead.

It looks as though drivers tend to go to hot into the corner on the outside, giving the guys on the inside the line, and better exit of 2, and of course the lead and opportunity to chose a line into 3. This is one track where it will be as easy to gain positions, as lose at the start.

#1153 Nigol

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:07

I think Button will win this race.
The right side sould be pretty dirty, and when you stick to the outside for turn 1, you have the inside line for turn 2 (watch the Renaults in 2011).

#1154 tifosiMac

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:11

No - this is directed solely at certain people who cannot attribute any failing to Lewis and have to find error with the team when he doesn't win, and who equally can find no acknowledgement of any contribution other than that of Lewis when he does win.

Of course, you already knew that.

Hmmmm so what should I say to people who include a little dig at Lewis in every related post they make then? You seem to have an issue with overly positive posters yet you are negative in your approach but beyond criticism? I already knew that.

#1155 as65p

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:16

Are we likely to see the BBC and Sky acknowledge this type of perception or is it based on ones biased forum view? That isn't a trick question.


Dunno how TV comes into it. We're discussing here on the forum, and obviously I talk about the forum.

#1156 trogggy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:17

My guess is that MW will instruct the team to at least keep cool for turn 1. There is every possibility they could lose out due to the circuits nature so I would assume a hold station for turn 1 barring any problems will be the order of tomorrows start. From then on however it will be a race.

Publicly at least he's said the opposite:

Jenson and Lewis are free to race into the first corner. After last weekend, I'm sure that Lewis will want to come out of the first corner in the lead, but it's a long and difficult race ahead of both of them tomorrow.



#1157 undersquare

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:24

What did they do differently to Jenson's side of the garage then? And if the answer is nothing, did you lose all faith in his side of the garage too?

I think they set up the clutch wrong for the start so the second stage didn't kick in properly, and they presumably participated (to whatever extent) in the setup and front wing setting.

Personally I think Andy Latham has been an absolute disaster for Lewis. Disrespectful attitude, poor communication, and not quite clever enough.

#1158 trogggy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:27

Personally I think Andy Latham has been an absolute disaster for Lewis. Disrespectful attitude, poor communication, and not quite clever enough.

Maybe, but Andy still has to work with him. :D

Just joking.

#1159 PretentiousBread

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:35

I think they set up the clutch wrong for the start so the second stage didn't kick in properly, and they presumably participated (to whatever extent) in the setup and front wing setting.

Personally I think Andy Latham has been an absolute disaster for Lewis. Disrespectful attitude, poor communication, and not quite clever enough.


Disrespectful attitude? He talks to Hamilton like a fearful, subservient lackey. You can say whatever else about him, but disrespectful? Unless Hamilton should be afforded special treatment vs other human beings then i'd have to say his attitude is fine.

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#1160 undersquare

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:41

Disrespectful attitude? He talks to Hamilton like a fearful, subservient lackey. You can say whatever else about him, but disrespectful? Unless Hamilton should be afforded special treatment vs other human beings then i'd have to say his attitude is fine.

Well disrespectful is what his radio often sounds like to me. Fearful and subservient? Lol. Possibly I suppose he might have learned that his attitude pisses Lewis off, but I don't think he understands why.

#1161 as65p

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:48

Drivers get the communication they deserve with their REs. It's a two way road, the driver has to earn the the engineers respect just as vice-versa.

#1162 PretentiousBread

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 13:55

Well disrespectful is what his radio often sounds like to me. Fearful and subservient? Lol. Possibly I suppose he might have learned that his attitude pisses Lewis off, but I don't think he understands why.


Most RE/driver communications sound to me like a partnership, at least the good ones. Hamilton and Andy Latham sound more like the angry boss and his quaking PA. I agree Latham doesn't come across as the best race engineer, and I don't think he's someone that LH appears to lean on like most other drivers do with their engineers, but I would just never ever have described him as being disrespectful.

#1163 fieraku

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:04

Drivers get the communication they deserve with their REs. It's a two way road, the driver has to earn the the engineers respect just as vice-versa.

REs are a dime a dozen and it's not some big secret that Top drivers that haven't been happy with one keep changing them until they are.
The RE is there to serve the driver no matter how you put it.It's not like AL is some strategy guru,and irreplaceable.

#1164 trogggy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:07

REs are a dime a dozen and it's not some big secret that Top drivers that haven't been happy with one keep changing them until they are.

Doesn't that suggest that there isn't actually a problem?

#1165 as65p

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:10

REs are a dime a dozen and it's not some big secret that Top drivers that haven't been happy with one keep changing them until they are.


Well, that can only mean that LH is extremely happy with his RE. Or alternatively, that he is no top driver. :eek: Just joking, of course!  ;)

The RE is there to serve the driver no matter how you put it.It's not like AL is some strategy guru,and irreplaceable.


I tell you what, the real top driver never have an attitude like that. In general they appreciate how many people work in the background for them to shine, and the RE is in many ways the last in the chain. Treating him like a servant would be incredibly shortsighted.


#1166 Watkins74

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:13

Maybe, but Andy still has to work with him. :D

Just joking.

That was funny. :D

#1167 PARAZAR

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:15

Did not you notice a strange pattern with BUT Q3 laps?
Today(like in Australia) he was slow after the first lap, but tried for real to grab the pole with his second lap.
_
I don't know you, but i have a slight feeling BUTTON and his engineers are trying to do mind games(or sandbagging). Remember Abu Dhabi last year?? BUT looked slow, but in his second lap came from nowhere and nearly grabbed HAM's P2.
I think BUT today, was sure to be on Pole. Good thing Lewis didn't buy it this time. :)


From the press conference:
Q: Jenson, quite a last gasp to get on the front row there.

JB: Well, actually, it's quite normal in the end of Q3 to put in your fastest lap, so I think it was the way for most of us, though obviously not for Lewis. I was pretty happy with the lap. I think with the heat it is very difficult to get a good lap out of the car as the car is moving around a lot but I was pretty happy but obviously not as happy as the guy sitting alongside me.

http://www.planetf1....ress-conference

#1168 fieraku

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:15

Doesn't that suggest that there isn't actually a problem?

It was a comment in general,not related in particular with Ham's case.Pardon the confusion.

#1169 Skellen

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:16

Maybe, but Andy still has to work with him. :D

Just joking.


Mighty! Now, if you think a bit about it...

#1170 fieraku

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:20

Well, that can only mean that LH is extremely happy with his RE. Or alternatively, that he is no top driver. :eek: Just joking, of course! ;)



I tell you what, the real top driver never have an attitude like that. In general they appreciate how many people work in the background for them to shine, and the RE is in many ways the last in the chain. Treating him like a servant would be incredibly shortsighted.

Awwww asp,you almost had me with that. :drunk: These guys are ruthless SOBs not Saints so you can stop the ''poor workers" charade.

#1171 trogggy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:33

Awwww asp,you almost had me with that. :drunk: These guys are ruthless SOBs not Saints so you can stop the ''poor workers" charade.

So why's he not changed his RE...if there's a problem?

#1172 fieraku

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:37

So why's he not changed his RE...if there's a problem?

Beats me.

#1173 mursuka80

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:40

If Race engineers are dime in a dozen, then why certain drivers, when they go to new team want their old RE`s ?

#1174 Lazy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:41

Did not you notice a strange pattern with BUT Q3 laps?
Today(like in Australia) he was slow after the first lap, but tried for real to grab the pole with his second lap.
_
I don't know you, but i have a slight feeling BUTTON and his engineers are trying to do mind games(or sandbagging). Remember Abu Dhabi last year?? BUT looked slow, but in his second lap came from nowhere and nearly grabbed HAM's P2.
I think BUT today, was sure to be on Pole. Good thing Lewis didn't buy it this time. :)


lol

#1175 WitnessX

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:46

I think they set up the clutch wrong for the start so the second stage didn't kick in properly, and they presumably participated (to whatever extent) in the setup and front wing setting.

Personally I think Andy Latham has been an absolute disaster for Lewis. Disrespectful attitude, poor communication, and not quite clever enough.


AFAIK the mechanical aspects of the cars (clutch, wing angles) are responsibility of the "performance engineer" not the "racing engineer" (presumably Mark Temple is still the performance engineer for Lewis).

#1176 ForzaGTR

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:50

Shame McLaren took Lewis' RE away when Jenson joined...

#1177 BillBald

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 15:17

I think Button will win this race.
The right side sould be pretty dirty, and when you stick to the outside for turn 1, you have the inside line for turn 2 (watch the Renaults in 2011).


The right side will be the clean side, as they just came out of a left-hand corner. That's why they switched the pole to that side, previously almost every pole-sitter lost out.

Last year the Renaults benefitted because Vettel was more interested in blocking Lewis than getting into turn 1 fast.

If it starts in the dry, I don't really expect Jenson to stay ahead of Schumi into turn 1, so he could have a real problem. And Vettel will be close behind - I hope he only has a mini-KERS.





#1178 trogggy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 15:19

The right side will be the clean side, as they just came out of a left-hand corner. That's why they switched the pole to that side, previously almost every pole-sitter lost out.

Last year the Renaults benefitted because Vettel was more interested in blocking Lewis than getting into turn 1 fast.

If it starts in the dry, I don't really expect Jenson to stay ahead of Schumi into turn 1, so he could have a real problem. And Vettel will be close behind - I hope he only has a mini-KERS.

Close behind Rosberg with a bit of luck. :D

#1179 BillBald

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 15:22

Close behind Rosberg with a bit of luck. :D


I'm pretty cross with Kimi for getting that penalty! :)

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#1180 swerved

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:03

If Race engineers are dime in a dozen, then why certain drivers, when they go to new team want their old RE`s ?


:up:


They cant afford a dime, and wouldn't know what to do with the other 11  ;)


Hoping for another Jenson win tomorrow :)

#1181 MP422

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:06

I'm pretty cross with Kimi for getting that penalty! :)


Love it !!! :clap: :clap:

#1182 tkulla

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:06

This one is gonna be exciting! I had planned to DVR and watch when I wake up tomorrow, but I don't think that's possible now. I'll be turning on SPEED at 4:00 a.m. for sure.

Lewis is clearly determined to beat Jenson to the first corner this week, but he also has to watch for Schumacher behind him. The old man has been making great starts so if Hamilton pays too much attention to Button then he runs the risk of letting the Mercedes through.

I don't think Button is all that concerned with the first corner. This is going to be a wild race and we could see 4-stops from some drivers (even if it doesn't rain). Add to that the closeness of the field and making that first stint long enough is going to be crucial. Not only will an early stop consign a driver to a 4-stopper, it may also dump him into traffic and diminish any benefit of the undercut.

All this complexity should play to the strengths of the "thinking" drivers (Button, Vettel, Schumacher) but there's so much uncertainty in the setups because of the extreme heat that luck will play a big factor too. And if it rains then anything can happen. Good times!

#1183 robefc

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:11

This one is gonna be exciting! I had planned to DVR and watch when I wake up tomorrow, but I don't think that's possible now. I'll be turning on SPEED at 4:00 a.m. for sure.

Lewis is clearly determined to beat Jenson to the first corner this week, but he also has to watch for Schumacher behind him. The old man has been making great starts so if Hamilton pays too much attention to Button then he runs the risk of letting the Mercedes through.

I don't think Button is all that concerned with the first corner. This is going to be a wild race and we could see 4-stops from some drivers (even if it doesn't rain). Add to that the closeness of the field and making that first stint long enough is going to be crucial. Not only will an early stop consign a driver to a 4-stopper, it may also dump him into traffic and diminish any benefit of the undercut.

All this complexity should play to the strengths of the "thinking" drivers (Button, Vettel, Schumacher) but there's so much uncertainty in the setups because of the extreme heat that luck will play a big factor too. And if it rains then anything can happen. Good times!


Not sure I agree about button's attitude to the first corner, in a race where strategy may be key and tyre degradation is high I'd have though first call on strategy is highly desirable.

Very concerned about MS as imagine button fans are too.

Hope Lewis has worked out set up for both race pace and tyre deg, the fact there were explanations for the start and pace last week is comforting but only if he's found solutions...

#1184 Lazy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:24

Not sure I agree about button's attitude to the first corner, in a race where strategy may be key and tyre degradation is high I'd have though first call on strategy is highly desirable.

Very concerned about MS as imagine button fans are too.

Hope Lewis has worked out set up for both race pace and tyre deg, the fact there were explanations for the start and pace last week is comforting but only if he's found solutions...


Yeah but if I was him I'd be thinking Lewis would risk contact to be 1st into the corner and also that he'd have a good chance to win from behind. I think he will count on being able to pressure Lewis on tyres.

#1185 jrg19

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:26

Hope Lewis has worked out set up for both race pace and tyre deg, the fact there were explanations for the start and pace last week is comforting but only if he's found solutions...


Well on his onboard pole lap, he was on the limiter up the back straight which would surly been a race strategy.

#1186 ayanate

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:33

Not sure I agree about button's attitude to the first corner, in a race where strategy may be key and tyre degradation is high I'd have though first call on strategy is highly desirable.

Very concerned about MS as imagine button fans are too.

Hope Lewis has worked out set up for both race pace and tyre deg, the fact there were explanations for the start and pace last week is comforting but only if he's found solutions...

:up:
He needs to be going through all possible permutations tonight and agree possible changes to strategy. Be flexible Lewis and show the team that you are not their puppet/muppet. Look at the job JB has done, he let Mclaren know he is his own man and not a corporate drone.

#1187 robefc

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:34

Well on his onboard pole lap, he was on the limiter up the back straight which would surly been a race strategy.


Hopefully, I'm optimistic...but then I was last week to!

#1188 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 16:36

As a Button fan i'm actually loving it that MS is up there, there's life in the old dog :)

Go Schumi!

#1189 icecream_man

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 17:30

Yeah but if I was him I'd be thinking Lewis would risk contact to be 1st into the corner and also that he'd have a good chance to win from behind. I think he will count on being able to pressure Lewis on tyres.


That's crossed my mind too, after seeing the effect last week's race had on him I wouldn't be at all surprised if he tried something desperate to keep JB behind him should the need arise.

#1190 PNSD

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 17:41

Senna confirming he might try a two stopper confirms a 3 stopper for us is likely.

Senna said a 3 stopper was slower (At least thats how I understood) so a 4 stopper is a bullet in the head surely?

#1191 krea

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 17:44

It's the better strategy if you can stay longer out. We don't know if we will get rain, so with a longer stint you are more flexible.

#1192 speng

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 18:13

Button will have have his work cut out for him, hopefully with no clutch problem for Hamilton and Schumacher behind him tomorrow he will be lucky not to fall behind Schumacher. It will be interesting tomorrow.

#1193 revlec

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 18:24

lol


You were right.. i was wrong this time.. apologies..
In this youtube video Lewis explains his Q3 strategy.

Lewis Hamilton Talks Through His Pole Lap In Malaysia: BBC F1 2012 - Round 2: Malaysian GP




#1194 windtravels

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 18:40

Senna confirming he might try a two stopper confirms a 3 stopper for us is likely.

Senna said a 3 stopper was slower (At least thats how I understood) so a 4 stopper is a bullet in the head surely?


hmm. interesting, could be. most of what I have heard points towards 3 stops being the optimum strategy however.

#1195 zack1994

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:37

Some interesting quotes from lewis and jenson
Here
On last week's slow start, when he was caught cold by Button, Hamilton said: "I've given the engineer who does the launches a bit of a squeeze and said to make sure it's good tomorrow." Button quipped: "I've already paid him off." Much laughter. :lol:

#1196 jjcale

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:34

So why's he not changed his RE...if there's a problem?


Maybe its not his decision...

#1197 trogggy

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:02

Maybe its not his decision...

It's a possibility.

Start on intermediates. :(

#1198 fieraku

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:16

Can we stop the leading driver nonsense?
:rolleyes:



#1199 trogggy

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:29

Can we stop the leading driver nonsense?
:rolleyes:

Eh?

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#1200 fieraku

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:41

Eh?

JB or his RE saw he could/might be faster on wets and pitted even if it meant undercutting LH.


LH and the whole world saw he would be faster if he pitted in OZ but couldn't coz of the undercut,right? Leading driver makes the call? Lewis wanted to stay on inters right his call? Well so did JB.

What difference does it make wet or dry when the goal is the same?Gaining positions!