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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#101 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:55

Hmm...given that Button set his time a minute or two after Hamilton, that's not exactly helping the case of those protesting about people uses of words to describe the speed differential.

Still...a tenth ahead of your team mate in the same machinery, especially when it was the first timed lap, is pretty good. And I seem to remember that Lewis was improving on that, but pitted as quali finished.

** edit ** Oh yeah....as other have pointed out, he flubbed it. Oh well.

A good days work from both drivers.

IMO Ham is 'about' two tenths quicker in general and I can't quantify how faster the track gets so...

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#102 Watkins74

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:55

:up:

Two drivers qualifying one-two less that two tenths apart... it should be obvious that they got a great car and also that both guys did a great job.

:up: :up:

#103 TeamMacca

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:56

Hearing Jenson and Lewis are dancing to the big bad wolf tune which is blasting out infront of the Redbull garage.

#104 P123

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:02

:up:

Two drivers qualifying one-two less that two tenths apart... it should be obvious that they got a great car and also that both guys did a great job.


It should... but not in this topic.  ;)

#105 stairpotato

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:13

This thread feels like deja vu already.

Anyways - great job by both drivers.

I hope that this year Jenson gets more of the respect he's due. I think we're in an absolutely classic era for the McLaren team. IMHO we haven't had such a strong driver pairing since Senna/Prost.

We have two GREAT drivers - either of whom can get the upper hand on their day.

It'll be interesting to see how the race pans out.

#106 Kvothe

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:17

Again, live timing doesn't support that, unless Kvothe has his figures wrong.



As if :), it seems Lewis' interview supports me:

Strange, he said this at the conference:
"..My lap was a good lap, obviously. The second time I tried to brake 10 metres later at turn one, but it didn't work. But fortunately, my first lap was good enough."


Edited by Kvothe, 17 March 2012 - 13:20.


#107 Kvothe

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:19

Hearing Jenson and Lewis are dancing to the big bad wolf tune which is blasting out infront of the Redbull garage.

Nice! I love that song, the video is messed up though:




#108 robefc

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:23

As if :), it seems Lewis' interview supports me:


You were right, i was anxiously awaiting lewis's S1 time after jense went purple...then spent the rest of the lap crossing my fingers jb wouldn't beat lewis's first lap time....and completely forgot about vettle! How nice! :D

#109 Kvothe

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:44

You were right, i was anxiously awaiting lewis's S1 time after jense went purple...then spent the rest of the lap crossing my fingers jb wouldn't beat lewis's first lap time....and completely forgot about vettle! How nice! :D


Same, except I was also nervously watching Schumacher as well, when he set a purple sector I thought here comes the sting.

Edited by Kvothe, 17 March 2012 - 13:46.


#110 sofarapartguy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:09

Can't see any point of making a fight in this thread. Yes, it's a driver scorecard, but still - what a dream team it is at the moment!

Every McLaren fan should be proud by now.

#111 F1ultimate

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:24

Every McLaren fan should be proud by now.



This.


Let's secure constructors this year. :up:

#112 bauss

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:27

You were right, i was anxiously awaiting lewis's S1 time after jense went purple...then spent the rest of the lap crossing my fingers jb wouldn't beat lewis's first lap time....and completely forgot about vettle! How nice! :D


hahaha.... same here

the most interesting part though for me was start of q3, then Rosberg looked the biggest Mclaren threat.

He did a 28.6 in the first sector, then Ham did a 28.3... I knew what was coming, smiled and went looking for the GQ picture


Posted Image


As far as JB vs LH, it will be a long season... there seemed to be a point in the press conference where they were asking JB a question, and it seemed to dawn on him and probably Lewis like yeah "this might be a straight fight btw us brother"

This is generally one of JB's stronger tracks, and the car looks Brawn type balanced, so no surprises he is very quick.

No need to get into any arguments here, I repeat, long season and probably much more head to head squabbles btw this two now that it seems we've finally rid RB off the front row and it seems we got a car capable of more wins than in recent past.

#113 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:33

there seemed to be a point in the press conference where they were asking JB a question, and it seemed to dawn on him and probably Lewis like yeah "this might be a straight fight btw us brother"

Sadly haven't been able to see any press conference myself but I was wondering the same thing. If McLaren stays at the front it has to hit them at some point. Will be interesting, fighting for P1 is always different than for P3.

#114 robefc

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:38

Sadly haven't been able to see any press conference myself but I was wondering the same thing. If McLaren stays at the front it has to hit them at some point. Will be interesting, fighting for P1 is always different than for P3.


They'll not be counting their chickens yet, we haven't even had a race and oz is notorious for being misleading on form.

The best news for me so far is we should be in the fight, things look great now but even if misleading it's hard to see us trailing anyone significantly, least of all red bull.

I'm guessing if things go well this weekend and in malaysia though it might start to dawn on them...europe will be the really big factor where it would hit home if macca was best car until then and retains that status.

#115 Anomnader

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:45

Nice! I love that song, the video is messed up though:


I don't think theres a smiley available that describes what I've just seen...............

#116 Buttoneer

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:48

It was never going to take long but posts have been deleted already.

Do not troll. If someone does troll, make a personal attacks, or otherwise disrupts the thread, use the report function and allow us to deal with it. If you tolerate or respond to the trolling, you let the place get even worse than we know it will already be.

#117 Watkins74

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:53

It was never going to take long but posts have been deleted already.

Do not troll. If someone does troll, make a personal attacks, or otherwise disrupts the thread, use the report function and allow us to deal with it. If you tolerate or respond to the trolling, you let the place get even worse than we know it will already be.

Wow.....both drivers on the front row. The car looks awesome. What's to argue about...was someones hat crooked? :drunk:

#118 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:55

They'll not be counting their chickens yet, we haven't even had a race and oz is notorious for being misleading on form.

Is it now? Perhaps it could comfort you that for the past 5 years, the driver on pole in Melbourne won the championship. ;)

The best news for me so far is we should be in the fight, things look great now but even if misleading it's hard to see us trailing anyone significantly, least of all red bull.

I'm guessing if things go well this weekend and in malaysia though it might start to dawn on them...europe will be the really big factor where it would hit home if macca was best car until then and retains that status.

Yeah I didn't mean it in any other way, hence the 'if', I'm watching long enough to know anything can happen in F1.

But knowing McLaren, it's looking quite good and it's pretty likely they will be in the fight for the titles.

I'm just saying that it could have an effect on their relationship.

#119 robefc

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:03

Is it now? Perhaps it could comfort you that for the past 5 years, the driver on pole in Melbourne won the championship.;)


Haha - you've caught me repeating what I've heard rather than looking at the evidence! But it's said so much by drivers, TPs, journos etc that I presume there's something in it.


I'm just saying that it could have an effect on their relationship.


Yep, could do, hopefully after a string of lewis wins he will be gracious in victory and jenson will understand his place in the pecking order...

:p

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#120 jjcale

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:15

Nice qualifying by the two guys. Good to have a new season under-way. Hope this thread doesn't descend into madness like the previous 2 years.

:lol: good luck with that :lol:

#121 Wingnut

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:25

Good work by both drivers. If Lewis can get away well at the start I can see him running away with it. Last year, Jensons main tactic was to hang back while Lewis (or any other driver) ruined their tyres behind the car in front. We'll see if he can hang onto him in clean air.

#122 Anomnader

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:26

They just need to plan their getaway and make sure they don't take each other off.

#123 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:27

Yep, could do, hopefully after a string of lewis wins he will be gracious in victory and jenson will understand his place in the pecking order...

:p

Yeah........

Wait, hold on! :p

But I'm seriously doubting whether Jenson can really attack Lewis tomorrow. First of all because I assume he won't be higher than 4th after the first lap and secondly because tyre degradation won't really be an issue here.

#124 jjcale

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:30

You were right, i was anxiously awaiting lewis's S1 time after jense went purple...then spent the rest of the lap crossing my fingers jb wouldn't beat lewis's first lap time....and completely forgot about vettle! How nice! :D

I started partying as soon as he did lap... he was 0.8 up on the next car... In the end I was surprised JB came so close to him - but that means the car is just plain better than the rest.... its gonna be like that till at least Barca... Quite possibly the WCC is already over and the WDC is down to only 2 possible drivers.

BTW I made a bet with a Ferrari supporter after FP1 confirmed what we saw in testing that it would be a 1-2 this weekend.... not celebrating too early but what I've seen so far is as good as a 1-2... Macca has the best car... and possibly by a good measure ATM.

#125 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:32

Yeah........

Wait, hold on! :p

But I'm seriously doubting whether Jenson can really attack Lewis tomorrow. First of all because I assume he won't be higher than 4th after the first lap and secondly because tyre degradation won't really be an issue here.

I think JB will be more aggressive than his usual self and not give up places easily.He surely remembers last year getting stuck behind Massa.

#126 jjcale

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:33

Yeah........

Wait, hold on! :p

But I'm seriously doubting whether Jenson can really attack Lewis tomorrow. First of all because I assume he won't be higher than 4th after the first lap and secondly because tyre degradation won't really be an issue here.


Funny, I'm expecting the opposite... I expect JB to win on tyres tomorrow... assuming a clean start and no funny castastrophic safety cars.

#127 mursuka80

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:33

They just need to plan their getaway and make sure they don't take each other off.


I hope not. I dont want to see teamorders in first race.

#128 Anomnader

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:34

I think JB will be more aggressive than his usual self and not give up places easily.He surely remembers last year getting stuck behind Massa.



erm little chance of that this year! and the great thing is, there's an almost impossible chance that this year for Lewis having to be trying to overtake Massa, except when he laps him (blue flags will help here)

Edited by Anomnader, 17 March 2012 - 15:34.


#129 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:38

erm little chance of that this year! and the great thing is, there's an almost impossible chance that this year for Lewis having to be trying to overtake Massa, except when he laps him (blue flags will help here)


Drop Massa enter Schumacher,if I was either Mac driver I wouldn't want to be behind him after turn one or even NR for that matter.Keeping 1-2 will be vital.

#130 robefc

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:39

Yeah........

Wait, hold on! :p

But I'm seriously doubting whether Jenson can really attack Lewis tomorrow. First of all because I assume he won't be higher than 4th after the first lap and secondly because tyre degradation won't really be an issue here.


I'm not sure what to expect.

As lewis is ahead he'll get preference on pit stops (assuming he stays there obviously) which will protect him to some extent. I also thing lewis's pace, relative to others, is even better on primes than options generally so if he does have an issue with tyres this season the fact there's less of a difference between primes and options may help him.

Malaysia may be a better gauge of how jense and lewis are going to handle the tyres this year, it's my main fear because lewis generally has the upper hand in quali and therefore only has to 'equal' jenson to beat him in the races more often than not, tyres are the big unknown.

#131 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:57

I think JB will be more aggressive than his usual self and not give up places easily.He surely remembers last year getting stuck behind Massa.

In both 2010 (4->7) and 2011 (4->6) Jenson had a substandard getaway from the dirty side of the grid and then ended up in some three-wide battle in Turn 1, heavily losing out. Perhaps it 's deception but I'm not too optimistic about his start tomorrow with Schumacher and Grosjean behind him. But I'd rather have him lose those places than to tangle and lose way more, and I hope Jenson still feels the same way and won't alter that strategy.

#132 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:03

Funny, I'm expecting the opposite... I expect JB to win on tyres tomorrow... assuming a clean start and no funny castastrophic safety cars.

But how then? Melbourne is just not the track for it. IIRC Sauber did a 1 stop last year on the deadly Pirelli's, while this year they don't degrade as quick. Jenson also mentioned in the press conference that "I don’t think it’s going to be one of those tough races where degradation is a massive issue." Of course we'll just have to wait and see but I'm not expecting Lewis to have any troubles tomorrow if he gets to the first corner first. Like robefc mentions above, he'll get pit stop preference too.

Edited by Lights, 17 March 2012 - 16:04.


#133 MinT

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:12

I would expect Hami to drive off the front in the first stint and JB then reel him in as the tyres go off - just how close depends more on how Hami usesd this years Pirellis.

#134 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:12

In both 2010 (4->7) and 2011 (4->6) Jenson had a substandard getaway from the dirty side of the grid and then ended up in some three-wide battle in Turn 1, heavily losing out. Perhaps it 's deception but I'm not too optimistic about his start tomorrow with Schumacher and Grosjean behind him. But I'd rather have him lose those places than to tangle and lose way more, and I hope Jenson still feels the same way and won't alter that strategy.


I feel different about JB this season,I saw glimpses of 'aggressiveness' last year that I hadn't seen before and I think 2012 JB will be a different beast.I think he's stopped being the nice guy on track.
Not saying he'll go banzai,understand.

#135 jjcale

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:35

But how then? Melbourne is just not the track for it. IIRC Sauber did a 1 stop last year on the deadly Pirelli's, while this year they don't degrade as quick. Jenson also mentioned in the press conference that "I don’t think it’s going to be one of those tough races where degradation is a massive issue." Of course we'll just have to wait and see but I'm not expecting Lewis to have any troubles tomorrow if he gets to the first corner first. Like robefc mentions above, he'll get pit stop preference too.


I dont think it needs to be a malaysia 11 style collapse for JB to beat LH on tyres... I just think that over a race distance JB is potentially faster on these new tyres even with a bit less degradation than we saw last year... I also think the uncertaintly will play into JB's hands as LH and his side of garage still have a bit of trouble making decisions on the go... I dont expect a better car to take that problem away. I dont think there is much in it but I give JB a slight edge - if all goes to plan. Seeing its Aus its not likely to go plan (notice the caveats in my earlier prediction). I expect the wacky races tomorrow with lots of people lsoing their back ends and crashing and anything can happen with safety cars ... but if its a nice calmish race I expect JB to pip LH... but I will be rooting for LH

Edited by jjcale, 17 March 2012 - 16:38.


#136 BinaryDad

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 18:20

I would expect Hami to drive off the front in the first stint and JB then reel him in as the tyres go off - just how close depends more on how Hami usesd this years Pirellis.


I don't think this will happen. Last year, more often as not, Lewis was eating tires because he had to make up places, driving aggressively and suffering harder than usual wear as he had to rely on reduced aero while following a car in front.

With Lewis starting from pole, he won't have these issues if he manages to keep that position during the race.




#137 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 18:22

I feel different about JB this season,I saw glimpses of 'aggressiveness' last year that I hadn't seen before and I think 2012 JB will be a different beast.I think he's stopped being the nice guy on track.
Not saying he'll go banzai,understand.

I hope not indeed, I'd rather keep the main trait of Jenson that doesn't make me worry during races. Being a nice guy doesn't really work anyway. And I do certainly still hope he puts Vettel in the grass at some point as payback.

#138 Lights

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 18:32

I dont think it needs to be a malaysia 11 style collapse for JB to beat LH on tyres... I just think that over a race distance JB is potentially faster on these new tyres even with a bit less degradation than we saw last year... I also think the uncertaintly will play into JB's hands as LH and his side of garage still have a bit of trouble making decisions on the go... I dont expect a better car to take that problem away. I dont think there is much in it but I give JB a slight edge - if all goes to plan. Seeing its Aus its not likely to go plan (notice the caveats in my earlier prediction). I expect the wacky races tomorrow with lots of people lsoing their back ends and crashing and anything can happen with safety cars ... but if its a nice calmish race I expect JB to pip LH... but I will be rooting for LH

I agree that it would be bloody close if both would separately do a race distance. But in this case, Hamilton will still have track position, and then we're even assuming Button doesn't lose any positions at the start. I'm not so convinced Button would theoretically overtake Hamilton. If you look at Hungary'11 for instance, it was a typical cat and mouse game 2 stints in a row in which Hamilton extended his lead by several seconds for the first ~5 laps, then the gap would remain stable for ~5 laps and then during the last ~5 laps Jenson would close down a bit of it again. But in the end, the gap remained pretty much the same.

I'll just hope for a dream start for Jenson. :)

#139 theTruth

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:43

I agree that it would be bloody close if both would separately do a race distance. But in this case, Hamilton will still have track position, and then we're even assuming Button doesn't lose any positions at the start. I'm not so convinced Button would theoretically overtake Hamilton. If you look at Hungary'11 for instance, it was a typical cat and mouse game 2 stints in a row in which Hamilton extended his lead by several seconds for the first ~5 laps, then the gap would remain stable for ~5 laps and then during the last ~5 laps Jenson would close down a bit of it again. But in the end, the gap remained pretty much the same.

I'll just hope for a dream start for Jenson. :)

Don't bring up Hungary '11 please. :lol: Old wounds are slow to heal, that was painful . . . .

I agree with that analysis, though. Would have been a fascinating finish. That was in fact the race where I first said, "hmmm, this Jenson fellow is doing some good things with that car, how is he winding Lewis in like that?" :)

And as much as the mods -- give a shout out to the mods, in advance -- would like this to remain all love and kisses, inevitably the gloves have got to come off; and I have a feeling it's about one hour away. lol

So to all my "Jenson" friends out there, don't take it personal, it's just business. . . . :p

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#140 ForzaGTR

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:41

Here we go again with the Hamilton eats his tyres myth

#141 stairpotato

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:37

Jenson quicker than Hamilton on a dry track again.

Great job.

#142 Vic Vega

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:37

I guess Button took the team on couple more dinners...

#143 Kerch

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:39

I think whoever was ahead after the first corner would have won.

They should have three stopped Lewis!

#144 LH08WDC

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:40

Button absolutely fantastic. Cam we call him the Australia master?

#145 P123

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:40

Well done JB. 1-3. Not a bad start to the season. Red Bulls pretty much there on race pace too.

#146 advan031

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:40

Race: Button 1 - Hamilton 0

Hamilton couldn't match Button today but did a great job holding Webber back.

#147 Boxerevo

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:42

Wow,gratz to Button,dominated the race and Hamilton could do nothing agaisnt.

Lewis has to improve on the race and understand this tires better !!!

Gratz to Button !!!

#148 TheBunk

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:43

Well done Jenson. He was just better than Lewis today. Overal this weekend is a tie since I think Hamilton was fantastic yesterday. 1-1 for me.

#149 Lights

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:44

Well that's a surprise. Epic start from Button won him the race! Would be happier if Red Bull didn't show that strong pace at the end....

#150 advan031

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:46

Well that's a surprise. Epic start from Button won him the race! Would be happier if Red Bull didn't show that strong pace at the end....


Red Bull's pace was about the same towards the end (Button and Vettel).