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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#1451 Gareth

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:54

I agree with you Burtros.

I think it's fair to say that, with the benefit of hindsight, every pitstop decision McLaren have made for Hamilton this season has been on a sub-optimal lap. So I can see where some of the frustration has come from.

But I think it's also fair to say that each of those decisions is defensible/understandable when looked at the perspective of the information available at the time the decision was made (the correct perspective to view it from, IMO). So it's clear to me that McLaren have simply been a bit unfortunate in each of their decisions so far. There's certainly no evidence of a conspiracy whatsoever. It's just a natural consequence of unpredictable events such as safety cars and the weather. Hopefully Lewis will get lucky at some point later in the season.

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#1452 jjcale

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:18

I dont know if this ends the "conspriracy theory".... JB told to pit when it was obvious that inters were better... LH left out and asked the question... JB gets a bit of an undercut as a result.

I am not drawing a conclusion ... am just showing that there can be more than one legitimate explanation.

Am doing this while working so if I get the wrong end of the stick pls let me know.

#1453 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:31

I dont know if this ends the "conspriracy theory".... JB told to pit when it was obvious that inters were better... LH left out and asked the question... JB gets a bit of an undercut as a result.

I am not drawing a conclusion ... am just showing that there can be more than one legitimate explanation.

Am doing this while working so if I get the wrong end of the stick pls let me know.

You've got the sequence wrong, which changes the meaning completely. Lewis was asked first, as you'd expect because he was in the lead. He didn't want the inters - imagine the furore if the team had insisted on him switching to inters and he then dropped it.

#1454 TheBunk

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:35

I don't know if you are aware of this web site that produces a collection of radio messages. McLaren's site doesn't post all the radio transmissions so this might fill in some gaps.

Apologies if you already knew about this site.

http://www.dailymoti...highlights_auto


I didnt, but what an insight. They should ban radio communications right now. These drivers are puppets all the way. The only thing they arent told is what way the steering wheel should be turned.


#1455 Dunder

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:36

Inters were not the correct tyre to be on on the first lap after the safety car.
All of those who pitted when the safety car came in lost time to those who stayed out (Button lost a place to Alonso for example). It was the time lost in the pitsop that cost Hamilton.

#1456 Clatter

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:46

I didnt, but what an insight. They should ban radio communications right now. These drivers are puppets all the way. The only thing they arent told is what way the steering wheel should be turned.


We have heard examples of that as well.


#1457 Burtros

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:49

I didnt, but what an insight. They should ban radio communications right now. These drivers are puppets all the way. The only thing they arent told is what way the steering wheel should be turned.


Unless you are Felipe Massa, that is!

#1458 Lights

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:54

Inters were not the correct tyre to be on on the first lap after the safety car.
All of those who pitted when the safety car came in lost time to those who stayed out (Button lost a place to Alonso for example). It was the time lost in the pitsop that cost Hamilton.

It's obvious McLaren is trying to sabotage Jenson. They wanted him to lose a place to Alonso and thereby destroyed his whole race. They asked Lewis what he wanted but Button wasn't asked his opinion at all and he was demanded to come in the pits. Favoritism at the highest level. Poor Jenson. :( He should go to Mercedes!

#1459 jjcale

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:10

You've got the sequence wrong, which changes the meaning completely. Lewis was asked first, as you'd expect because he was in the lead. He didn't want the inters - imagine the furore if the team had insisted on him switching to inters and he then dropped it.


I am going off what I heard on that Vid... I dont have any more info - maybe you do??..........from 18:50 or thereabouts onwards. LH being asked first is not on that vid.

Is that what you are referring to or are you referring to something esle?


Inters were not the correct tyre to be on on the first lap after the safety car.
All of those who pitted when the safety car came in lost time to those who stayed out (Button lost a place to Alonso for example). It was the time lost in the pitsop that cost Hamilton.


I dont wanna get sucked into an argument .. as I dont have a really firm position on this particular question ATM... but is it not what was considerd to be better tyre at the relevant time that matters - rather than what was shown to be the better tyre, whit hindsight?

Edit: ABC's comment below might have made this last point redundant...

Edited by jjcale, 28 March 2012 - 12:14.


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#1460 abc

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:12

Inters were not the correct tyre to be on on the first lap after the safety car.
All of those who pitted when the safety car came in lost time to those who stayed out (Button lost a place to Alonso for example). It was the time lost in the pitsop that cost Hamilton.


Thats absolutely not true.

Button lost place to Alonso only because his own slow pitstop. Other guys outside new teams who pit immediately - Rosberg, Kimi, and Kamui went from 9th, 13th and 16th to 4th, 6th and 12th respectively.

#1461 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:14

You've got the sequence wrong, which changes the meaning completely. Lewis was asked first, as you'd expect because he was in the lead. He didn't want the inters - imagine the furore if the team had insisted on him switching to inters and he then dropped it.


Where do you come up with this stuff?Seriously!

#1462 Burtros

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:20

Where do you come up with this stuff?Seriously!


After watching the race and understanding what he has just seen would be my guess, based on the evidence.



#1463 robefc

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:22

Where do you come up with this stuff?Seriously!


From the horse's mouth apparently (chronology is from bottom to top)

Hamilton: "It's good for inters. Box this lap."

Pit » HAM: "About 5 cars have stopped for inters, including Jenson. Keep us informed of conditions."

Pit » BUT: "Box this lap for inters!"

Hamilton: "It's slightly wetter than when we started the race, but it's probably okay for inters."

Pit » HAM: "Some cars might come in for inters quite soon. What are your thoughts?"



#1464 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:24

Where do you come up with this stuff?Seriously!

ER. I watched the race?
__

The better question to ask would be where the hell do you guys get this stuff?
__

All you can manage in the face of the revelation that this was NOT McLaren's policy is to attack the poster. How about you actually take a step back and seriously reassess your stance on this conspiracy stuff?

#1465 robefc

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:24

I agree with you Burtros.

I think it's fair to say that, with the benefit of hindsight, every pitstop decision McLaren have made for Hamilton this season has been on a sub-optimal lap. So I can see where some of the frustration has come from.

But I think it's also fair to say that each of those decisions is defensible/understandable when looked at the perspective of the information available at the time the decision was made (the correct perspective to view it from, IMO). So it's clear to me that McLaren have simply been a bit unfortunate in each of their decisions so far. There's certainly no evidence of a conspiracy whatsoever. It's just a natural consequence of unpredictable events such as safety cars and the weather. Hopefully Lewis will get lucky at some point later in the season.


I thought they did a great job in oz at the second stop, totally buggered by the SC of course but i was worried they were going to leave him too long and vettel was going to get the undercut so when he came in I was very happy...for about 30 seconds!

Also don't think any of the decisions in malaysia were too bad, first two probably done with input from lewis andi it was the slow stop that did for him, last one made sense in terms of defending 3rd with 2nd/1st not very realistic.

#1466 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:29

The only evidence available as it happened,bottom is

Hamilton: "It's good for inters. Box this lap."
Pit » HAM: "About 5 cars have stopped for inters, including Jenson. Keep us informed of conditions."

Pit » BUT: "Box this lap for inters!"

Hamilton: "It's slightly wetter than when we started the race, but it's probably okay for inters."
Pit » HAM: "Some cars might come in for inters quite soon. What are your thoughts?"

SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP. The Malaysian GP is go once more!

Hamilton: "Let's start the race."



As you can see LH suggested it was OK for inters before JB stopped,but his RE is incompetent and kept asking Lewis even after all had stopped. :drunk:
He can't make a decision on his own it seems,whilst JB's RE called him in with no questions asked!

#1467 jjcale

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:29

From the horse's mouth apparently (chronology is from bottom to top)

Hamilton: "It's good for inters. Box this lap."

Pit » HAM: "About 5 cars have stopped for inters, including Jenson. Keep us informed of conditions."

Pit » BUT: "Box this lap for inters!"

Hamilton: "It's slightly wetter than when we started the race, but it's probably okay for inters."

Pit » HAM: "Some cars might come in for inters quite soon. What are your thoughts?"


I'm curious why there was a question to LH but an instruction to JB.... Had JB previously indicated that he wanted to go inters?

...

As you can see LH suggested it was OK for inters before JB stopped,but his RE is incompetent and kept asking Lewis even after all had stopped. :drunk:
He can't make a decision on his own it seems,whilst JB's RE called him in with no questions asked!


I dont think it was a bad call... and its pretty normal for the leader to be a bit more conservative (...even in the age of the undercut) ... but I am still curious as per above.

Edited by jjcale, 28 March 2012 - 12:32.


#1468 abc

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:32

I only wonder about drivers role in decision making. They are trundling around at 2.12per lap and must think if I bolted wet tires I would for sure do 2:10, Perez half lap behind me is doing exactly the same, i can see his progress, lets also have a look at sky to all direction, all right rain is not gonna ease, my next lap will be probably 2:14, um lets hurry for wet tyres, please put me through to Martin W not to be undercut by Jenson.

Or alternatively Oh **** what terrible conditions, I can hardly see anything, lets hope they get me good strategy, keeping position ahead of teammate would be nice for once .... oh **** look at him ahead of me.

#1469 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:33

From the horse's mouth apparently (chronology is from bottom to top)

Hamilton: "It's good for inters. Box this lap."

Pit » HAM: "About 5 cars have stopped for inters, including Jenson. Keep us informed of conditions."

Pit » BUT: "Box this lap for inters!"

Hamilton: "It's slightly wetter than when we started the race, but it's probably okay for inters."

Pit » HAM: "Some cars might come in for inters quite soon. What are your thoughts?"

That's not "He didn't want inters" is it now? I could as well use that as "he wanted them but was refused" :drunk:
GlenP's translation was way off,that's all.

Edited by fieraku, 28 March 2012 - 12:33.


#1470 F1Newbie

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:38

The only evidence available as it happened,bottom is

Hamilton: "It's good for inters. Box this lap."
Pit » HAM: "About 5 cars have stopped for inters, including Jenson. Keep us informed of conditions."

Pit » BUT: "Box this lap for inters!"

Hamilton: "It's slightly wetter than when we started the race, but it's probably okay for inters."
Pit » HAM: "Some cars might come in for inters quite soon. What are your thoughts?"

SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP. The Malaysian GP is go once more!

Hamilton: "Let's start the race."



As you can see LH suggested it was OK for inters before JB stopped,but his RE is incompetent and kept asking Lewis even after all had stopped. :drunk:
He can't make a decision on his own it seems,whilst JB's RE called him in with no questions asked!


Where exactly does that show Lewis declined to pit? They just informed him Jenson already pitted.


#1471 Burtros

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:41

As you can see LH suggested it was OK for inters before JB stopped,but his RE is incompetent and kept asking Lewis even after all had stopped. :drunk:
He can't make a decision on his own it seems,whilst JB's RE called him in with no questions asked!


And we are back to it being the incompetent RE instead of bias against Hamilton.

Hamilton is clearly indecisive on wet tyres. Here he says its 'maybe' ok for inters, in the same race there was another radio peice where Hamilton was asked for his thoughts on tyres and responded with 'what are the other drivers doing??'

Seems to me like a lack of confidence to make a decision is not something that effects just Hamiltons RE.....

and finally, to repeat the very obvious, Hamiltons RE is not incompetent - if he were, he wouldnt last 30 seconds on the pit wall in an organisation like McLaren.

#1472 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:42

That's not "He didn't want inters" is it now? I could as well use that as "he wanted them but was refused" :drunk:
GlenP's translation was way off,that's all.

OK. He didn't LITERALLY say no to inters.

But. He was asked first. He did not request them, but rather said it was "probably" ok. Perhaps he should just be more decisive.

Can't you see that whatever happens you will find fault with anyone other than Hamilton? What if they ordered him in for inters and that resulted in a dnf? What if they didn't ask for his opinion?

It's all in your reading of it - and you are reading it in such a way as to try and make it come out as "McLaren is evil/nothing can be Lewis' fault". Now - I am actually about as anti the big controlling mentality of McLaren as it gets - they have done appalling things in the past I think... if I can't see what the hell you guys are on about here, then I don't know who can.

#1473 jjcale

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:44

And we are back to it being the incompetent RE instead of bias against Hamilton.

Hamilton is clearly indecisive on wet tyres. Here he says its 'maybe' ok for inters, in the same race there was another radio peice where Hamilton was asked for his thoughts on tyres and responded with 'what are the other drivers doing??'

Seems to me like a lack of confidence to make a decision is not something that effects just Hamiltons RE.....

and finally, to repeat the very obvious, Hamiltons RE is not incompetent - if he were, he wouldnt last 30 seconds on the pit wall in an organisation like McLaren.


This.

... but could someone please tell me why LH got a question and JB got an instruction??

#1474 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:44

I'm curious why there was a question to LH but an instruction to JB.... Had JB previously indicated that he wanted to go inters?

I'm not! DR has bigger cojones and a better feel for the race to make the calls,whereas AL looks like the lost kid in the woods.
Remind me of one call that AL made that left an impression (whatta call),just one.

#1475 abc

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:46

Lets summarize, optimal pit from Lewis point of view would happen 1, 1, 2 laps earlier for all his stops (and 10 sec. quicker). Accidentally those are exactly laps when Jenson pitted.
I dont think McLaren wants to screw Lewis, they want to provide him with maximum help to achieve well deserved second position to Jenson.

#1476 krea

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:48

This.

... but could someone please tell me why LH got a question and JB got an instruction??


because his race team were sure that wet tyres are the better choice.

#1477 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:48

This.

... but could someone please tell me why LH got a question and JB got an instruction??

Hell, last week you were all saying Hamilton should call his own strategy and hang the team. Now you're saying the team should give him orders and not involve him.

That about perfectly sums up the insanity.

#1478 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:54

OK. He didn't LITERALLY say no to inters.

But. He was asked first. He did not request them, but rather said it was "probably" ok. Perhaps he should just be more decisive.

Can't you see that whatever happens you will find fault with anyone other than Hamilton? What if they ordered him in for inters and that resulted in a dnf? What if they didn't ask for his opinion?


It's all in your reading of it - and you are reading it in such a way as to try and make it come out as "McLaren is evil/nothing can be Lewis' fault". Now - I am actually about as anti the big controlling mentality of McLaren as it gets - they have done appalling things in the past I think... if I can't see what the hell you guys are on about here, then I don't know who can.


OK,the truth is better.
Perhaps his RE should start earning his pay and make some decisions on his own for once.
No I can't see,just you going in a "What if" marathon.Stick to "What actually" for a proper discussion.

#1479 Burtros

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:57

This.

... but could someone please tell me why LH got a question and JB got an instruction??


That is a good question, and one we will never know the awnser too.

All we do konw is that for plenty on here it deffinatly wont be anything to do with the quality of driver feedback the team had to base thier indiviudal calls on.

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#1480 Burtros

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:59

OK,the truth is better.
Perhaps his RE should start earning his pay and make some decisions on his own for once.
No I can't see,just you going in a "What if" marathon.Stick to "What actually" for a proper discussion.


How do you know JB or any other drivers RE is making decision on their own?

You talk about only dealing in the 'actually' you seriously need to start doing that yourself.

#1481 F1Newbie

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:59

Lets summarize, optimal pit from Lewis point of view would happen 1, 1, 2 laps earlier for all his stops (and 10 sec. quicker). Accidentally those are exactly laps when Jenson pitted.
I dont think McLaren wants to screw Lewis, they want to provide him with maximum help to achieve well deserved second position to Jenson.


I need to watch the race again because I swear I've heard Button's engineer telling him, after his incident, something like " he would be the first to pit" Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't understand why McLaren and some fans are being so hypocrite about it. They are clearly biased towards Button for whatever reason. Just like they were with Hakkinen, Hamilton when he was racing with Alonso then Kovalainen and now Button. McLaren need to be more transparent and stop lying to people.


#1482 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:00

OK,the truth is better.
Perhaps his RE should start earning his pay and make some decisions on his own for once.
No I can't see,just you going in a "What if" marathon.Stick to "What actually" for a proper discussion.

Were you or were you not one of the people who, after Melbourne, was saying that Hamilton should be assertive and call his own pit stops?

Now you are saying the complete opposite, and that his engineer should order him in.

You want "what actually"? Good question - what actually do you think Hamilton should do - call his own shots or follow orders? (how about a third option - be involved in the decision).

You want to move away from what ifs and stick with the facts - great news.

#1483 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:01

And we are back to it being the incompetent RE instead of bias against Hamilton.

Hamilton is clearly indecisive on wet tyres. Here he says its 'maybe' ok for inters, in the same race there was another radio peice where Hamilton was asked for his thoughts on tyres and responded with 'what are the other drivers doing??'

Seems to me like a lack of confidence to make a decision is not something that effects just Hamiltons RE.....

and finally, to repeat the very obvious, Hamiltons RE is not incompetent - if he were, he wouldnt last 30 seconds on the pit wall in an organisation like McLaren.


And that's why he doesn't need an indecisive RE as well.It almost sounds like:

RE:What do you think?

LH:I dunno,how about you?

RE:Well,others stopped,maybe we should too.

LH:I think so.

three laps and 12 seconds lost later.........

RE:Box this lap.

LH:Confirmed.

:stoned:

#1484 Burtros

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:03

I need to watch the race again because I swear I've heard Button's engineer telling him, after his incident, something like " he would be the first to pit" Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't understand why McLaren and some fans are being so hypocrite about it. They are clearly biased towards Button for whatever reason. Just like they were with Hakkinen, Hamilton when he was racing with Alonso then Kovalainen and now Button. McLaren need to be more transparent and stop lying to people.


Button would be first to pit because a) he needed shot of his tyres and b) he was in a position where he needed to take risks to get back into the race.

Hamilton, being in neither of those positions didnt need to take risks so was NEVER going to be the first man into the pits.

This is such elementary stuff, its risk analysis. Its not even F1 specific.

Edited by Burtros, 28 March 2012 - 13:05.


#1485 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:09

There will come on day soon a race where Hamilton stops early and gets the undercut, but then ends up compromised in his final stint and runs out of grip.

That will be someone else's fault too.

#1486 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:09


Were you or were you not one of the people who, after Melbourne, was saying that Hamilton should be assertive and call his own pit stops?


Now you are saying the complete opposite, and that his engineer should order him in.


You want "what actually"? Good question - what actually do you think Hamilton should do - call his own shots or follow orders? (how about a third option - be involved in the decision).

You want to move away from what ifs and stick with the facts - great news.


What do my wishes have to do with what is actually happening?And there can be both it doesn't have to be limited to just one scenario,just because I said one it doesn't mean I disagree with the other!

Step it up Glen,stop grasping at straws.

#1487 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:14

What do my wishes have to do with what is actually happening?And there can be both it doesn't have to be limited to just one scenario,just because I said one it doesn't mean I disagree with the other!

Step it up Glen,stop grasping at straws.

OK, so either way is ok with you.

I'm just guessing here - but I assume that whatever decision is taken in whatever manner - if it works out, Lewis takes the credit, if it doesn't work out, it's the team's fault?

Is that about right?

#1488 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:25

How do you know JB or any other drivers RE is making decision on their own?

You talk about only dealing in the 'actually' you seriously need to start doing that yourself.


From the radio communication of the two drivers and their REs JB's side leaves the impression as the one in control and get all the right calls and if it wasn't "them" making the decisions we'd see some great calls being made on LH's side as well.

It could be that Dave is more skilled at analyzing then regarding/disregarding the data from Mission Control,and making the calls on the fly and feeling the race.
AL seems like he needs to be 100% certain in order to react.



#1489 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:32

OK, so either way is ok with you.

I'm just guessing here - but I assume that whatever decision is taken in whatever manner - if it works out, Lewis takes the credit, if it doesn't work out, it's the team's fault?

Is that about right?

You're too focused on this credit stuff.Coaches draw plays/strategies athletes execute, that's how it's always been.
"Credit" is for fans bragging rights nothing more.

#1490 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:37

Coaches draw plays/strategies athletes execute, that's how it's always been.

OK fine. Now we're getting somewhere.

So - it was wrong to disagree with the team after Melbourne then? The "coaches" should call it, and the athlete should execute the order? I agree.

As for Sepang - as I've said several times (to deaf ears) wet races are different because the team needs the feedback of the driver, and the consent of the driver, because conditions are changing not just lap by lap but also at different points of the circuit. It really is pretty straightforward stuff.

#1491 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:48

OK fine. Now we're getting somewhere.

So - it was wrong to disagree with the team after Melbourne then? The "coaches" should call it, and the athlete should execute the order? I agree.

As for Sepang - as I've said several times (to deaf ears) wet races are different because the team needs the feedback of the driver, and the consent of the driver, because conditions are changing not just lap by lap but also at different points of the circuit. It really is pretty straightforward stuff.

No it wasn't!The "team" lost a 2nd place and gifted it to their main competitor. The "team" made no effort to maximize their chances in favor of individual results. Their fear of the undercut and probable switch of positions says "Individual" and not "Team" because if it did they wouldn't care as long as they never compromised a 1-2 regardless of the finishing order.But they did.

#1492 Afterburner

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:54

All garbage aside, clear victory for Hamilton this weekend. I put JB at fault for his collision with Karthikeyan, and though he showed some pace later on in the race, it was too late to even score a few points. A shame, but it is what it is.

#1493 GlenP

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:55

The team had a comfortable 1-2 which they only lost to very bad luck with the sc timing.

The fans (yourself included) all bleated that Hamilton should defy the team and come in for tyres whenever he liked. Now you are saying that the team has the call and the driver should drive to the call.

I can't find a shred of credibility in your arguments. In fact there are no arguments; you are merely being argumentative.

#1494 Dunder

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:56

P

Thats absolutely not true.

Button lost place to Alonso only because his own slow pitstop. Other guys outside new teams who pit immediately - Rosberg, Kimi, and Kamui went from 9th, 13th and 16th to 4th, 6th and 12th respectively.


Perez stayed out on the wet tyre one lap longer then Hamilton and emerged from his pitstop leading the race. He was by far the fastest car on track on lap 14.

There was little or no difference in terms of the pace between Button and Hamilton. Hamilton's pitstop on lap 14 was 2.1 seconds slower than Button's on lap 13 and it was that that cost him track position to both Button and to Alonso. With a normal pitstop he would still have been ahead of both and likely Perez too.


#1495 flyer121

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 13:57

Button would be first to pit because a) he needed shot of his tyres and b) he was in a position where he needed to take risks to get back into the race.

Hamilton, being in neither of those positions didnt need to take risks so was NEVER going to be the first man into the pits.

This is such elementary stuff, its risk analysis. Its not even F1 specific.



THIS.

Dont know why the elephant in the room is ignored.

#1496 fieraku

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 14:20

The team had a comfortable 1-2 which they only lost to very bad luck with the sc timing.

The fans (yourself included) all bleated that Hamilton should defy the team and come in for tyres whenever he liked. Now you are saying that the team has the call and the driver should drive to the call.

I can't find a shred of credibility in your arguments. In fact there are no arguments; you are merely being argumentative.


So you're saying the 10 second lead Ham lost in the first stint to Vet would have no bearing during the race and the consequential SC?
According to you a 2sec lead is better than 10secs right or just as comfortable?

Yeah credibility :stoned:



#1497 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 14:25

Jenson has competed in F1 since 2000 with many teams, he very experienced.

#1498 Dunder

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 14:38

I dont wanna get sucked into an argument .. as I dont have a really firm position on this particular question ATM... but is it not what was considerd to be better tyre at the relevant time that matters - rather than what was shown to be the better tyre, whit hindsight?

Edit: ABC's comment below might have made this last point redundant...


Indeed but that is always the case.
It was clearly a marginal decision either way which makes the conspiracy talk all the more senseless.

8 cars stopped on lap 13 (including Button)
9 cars stopped on lap 14 (including Hamilton)
7 cars stopped on lap 15

However you look at it knowing what was going to be right/wrong when running at safety car speed would be nothing more than an educated guess.



#1499 undersquare

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 14:40

Must admit what I've heard of the radio sounded fine to me, having started off expecting it to be negative. That's for the first stop. I haven't got to the stuff around Lap 40 when I was begging him to come in from Lap 37.

For primes, with hindsight haha.

Though with the team knowing how fast Perez was going on x-wets, THEY should have called that first stop IMO. The driver only knows so much of the puzzle.

So for me Robson had it right, giving the instruction. Latham was agreeable but not doing the best thing given the data he had.

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#1500 abc

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 14:43

P

Perez stayed out on the wet tyre one lap longer then Hamilton and emerged from his pitstop leading the race. He was by far the fastest car on track on lap 14.

There was little or no difference in terms of the pace between Button and Hamilton. Hamilton's pitstop on lap 14 was 2.1 seconds slower than Button's on lap 13 and it was that that cost him track position to both Button and to Alonso. With a normal pitstop he would still have been ahead of both and likely Perez too.


Dont be stubborn
You compare Perez to those with inlap or outlap? :drunk:
With normal pitstop Lewis would be ahead of quicker Perez which goes to show you, that to stay longer was not the way to go.
Leiws on wet was indeed about as quick as Button on inters due to a) Lewis is quicker driver b) Button encountered some traffic, make your choice.
The fact is ALL guys pitting straight after SC gained lots of places* with exception of Button who, in case of same pitstop times, would keep second in spite of his not so blistering pace.
*There is no way around this very fact baring you are Iraqis defense minister.