Jump to content


Photo

2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4041 replies to this topic

#1701 TallyHo

TallyHo
  • Member

  • 271 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:27

Whitmarsh said thet they were running a new floor, can anybody tell me if both McLaren drivers were running it?

Advertisement

#1702 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,905 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:40

Interesting comments from Jenson:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98744

Does anyone else feel like he's suggesting that normally when they're on the same strategy he can control the situation more? A sort of admission that he's the one who's got a best handle on what happens in the team. When lewis is down the grid, clearly the team will be doing whatever they can to move him up through the pack which may push Jenson.
I do think there is something a little bit strange going on in that they don't seem to be having a competition, ie pushing one another with tyre choices and changes. At the moment, it feels a bit like one of them gets in front and then they tell them to watch fuel, maintain position etc. It doesn't really feel like they're racing which is something I think Jenson benefits from. In this situation in China it seems that Jenson realises that it won't run like that as Lewis will be out of position.


That's how I read it too - he has less control over Hamilton's race if he's not directly behind him.

#1703 LH08WDC

LH08WDC
  • Member

  • 559 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:42

Whitmarsh said thet they were running a new floor, can anybody tell me if both McLaren drivers were running it?


It was both of them.

#1704 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,017 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:34

I agree that Button was faster. But Mclaren do seem to like to keep the status quo when the pair are line astern and this tends to happen with orderly pitstops (ie no one really trying to get the undercut and controlled engine modes). It happens the other way around too with Button holding station so I'm not suggesting it's a bias thing within the team. More that it's a way of doing things that suits Button. I'm just trying to understand Button's comments, that in some way this causes a problem for him as Lewis isn't going to be doing exactly the same thing as him, it's messier which is in Hamilton's favour slightly as he may be running the race in a different way. The point for me, is that usually Jenson doesn't have this headache as he knows what the plan will be for both of them and that this plan will be the same - which is odd considering they're supposed to be racing. I was surprised, for example, that hamilton went out again in Q3 in Oz and burnt another set of soft tyres which would've put a lot of pressure on Jenson. Hamilton came out less than 2 second behind Jenson on the first pitstop in Oz (albeit with Perez in front) and had he had a new set of softs things would've been far tighter. I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theories or anything like that, just analysing what JB has said.


If Lewis beats button in quali more often than not (and maintain lead in first stint) then it could be argued it suits lewis more than jenson.

#1705 Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast
  • Member

  • 4,299 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:44

Can you expand on that please? :)

Not really related to this thread. Suffice to say that a few Alonso fanatics would have spilled their milk - or thrown it at the Kimi fans.

#1706 halifaxf1fan

halifaxf1fan
  • Member

  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:23

@halifaxf1fan

You are still stuck in 2007(you are not the only one among Alonso fans on this board it seems), but you forget that only the 2 poor last races of that season save you from the embarassement. The fact that Lewis had not turn a F1 steering wheel before that season but finished in front of him, is an accomplishment itself.


Stop hurting yourself. Do you think that Perez, Grosjean, Vettel, Rosberg would have done the same if they had a Top car in their hand pairing a 2xWDC in their rookie season? Hell no. Evidence and stats(according to what they have achieved in their rookie seasons) tend to indicate that it would have not been the case.


We are in 2012, change your music please before it's too late. Thank you.



I just pointed out to ImDDAA, and quite correctly so, that Hamilton had been beaten head to head on Sundays over the course of a season by two of his three teammates. Both Alonso and Button had done this. Button beat him last season and that was 2011, not so far in the past!

Unfortunately we will never know how Vettel, Rosberg, or Button etc would have done in a top car right out of the box. Hamilton had the luxury of the best equipment right from the start and took great advantage of that. The others had to make their way up and earn a top drive with long hours and hard work.

Speaking of 2007 the embarrassment surely was Hamilton's as well! Having all that team support and at the end not producing the wdc. But to be fair he was a rookie and I think it was ultimately the teams fault for asking too much too soon.


#1707 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:45

Unfortunately we will never know how Vettel, Rosberg, or Button etc would have done in a top car right out of the box. Hamilton had the luxury of the best equipment right from the start and took great advantage of that. The others had to make their way up and earn a top drive with long hours and hard work.


The others weren't nearly talented enough out the box so crying a river because Hammer was good and ready from the go and deserved his seat is ridiculous.

It's like saying Messi should have played for Getafe first and have to work harder just like other less talented players.And to prove what exactly? :stoned:

Hamilton wasn't just any other driver,it's mindboggling how F1 fans of 20-30 years can't recognize a supertalent or they just play dumb because of their bias.

It was his talent and skill that got him the car,not some lottery draw like some like to pass here.It doesn't take a genius to recognize another.

#1708 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,377 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:58

The others weren't nearly talented enough out the box so crying a river because Hammer was good and ready from the go and deserved his seat is ridiculous.

It's like saying Messi should have played for Getafe first and have to work harder just like other less talented players.And to prove what exactly? :stoned:

Hamilton wasn't just any other driver,it's mindboggling how F1 fans of 20-30 years can't recognize a supertalent or they just play dumb because of their bias.

It was his talent and skill that got him the car,not some lottery draw like some like to pass here.It doesn't take a genius to recognize another.

Come off it. You're suggesting that he was in a class of his own, which even you must know isn't true.

He is unique - but some of the unique-ness is other than just driving ability.

#1709 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:01

Come off it. You're suggesting that he was in a class of his own, which even you must know isn't true.

He is unique - but some of the unique-ness is other than just driving ability.


Yes he was,when is the last time you saw a rookie go toe to toe with the twice incumbent WDC?

#1710 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:02

Come off it. You're suggesting that he was in a class of his own, which even you must know isn't true.

He is unique - but some of the unique-ness is other than just driving ability.


Care to elaborate? Because I'm looking at his history - and he's got by far the best results of any recent F1 driver whilst climbing through the ranks.


#1711 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:09

Care to elaborate? Because I'm looking at his history - and he's got by far the best results of any recent F1 driver whilst climbing through the ranks.

I can't comprehend how Ham being sponsored from an early age it's a knock on him. It's like blaming some 14 year old genius because he was given a Harvard scholarship and finished it by 18 while keeping up the requirements of said scholarship,then being hired by a top company and becoming CEO by 25.

He had it too easy :drunk: and lets forget that it was his brains that got him there,in Hammer's case his incredible talent and skill.

#1712 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,163 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:17

If Lewis beats button in quali more often than not (and maintain lead in first stint) then it could be argued it suits lewis more than jenson.

Maybe. Time will tell.

#1713 lewymp4

lewymp4
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:51

Speaking of 2007 the embarrassment surely was Hamilton's as well! Having all that team support and at the end not producing the wdc.


At China in 2007, if the Mclaren pitwall had taken the advice of Bridgestone Director of Motorsport Hirode Hamashima, who strongly advised them to bring Lewis in 5 laps earlier, he could have solidified the WDC in his rookie year.


#1714 halifaxf1fan

halifaxf1fan
  • Member

  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:01

The others weren't nearly talented enough out the box so crying a river because Hammer was good and ready from the go and deserved his seat is ridiculous.

It's like saying Messi should have played for Getafe first and have to work harder just like other less talented players.And to prove what exactly? :stoned:

Hamilton wasn't just any other driver,it's mindboggling how F1 fans of 20-30 years can't recognize a supertalent or they just play dumb because of their bias.

It was his talent and skill that got him the car,not some lottery draw like some like to pass here.It doesn't take a genius to recognize another.


Hey fieraku, I didn't say he didn't deserve it only that the others weren't so fortunate in their rookie year and had to work their way up to the best cars to show their stuff.

Don't know who Messi is although I am sure he must be good at what he does. Did he also have a great start followed by adversity?

#1715 silverstonegeneral

silverstonegeneral
  • Member

  • 85 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:33

The others weren't nearly talented enough out the box so crying a river because Hammer was good and ready from the go and deserved his seat is ridiculous.

It's like saying Messi should have played for Getafe first and have to work harder just like other less talented players.And to prove what exactly? :stoned:

Hamilton wasn't just any other driver,it's mindboggling how F1 fans of 20-30 years can't recognize a supertalent or they just play dumb because of their bias.

It was his talent and skill that got him the car,not some lottery draw like some like to pass here.It doesn't take a genius to recognize another.


:clap: :up:


#1716 flyer121

flyer121
  • Member

  • 4,570 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:43

Hey fieraku, I didn't say he didn't deserve it only that the others weren't so fortunate in their rookie year and had to work their way up to the best cars to show their stuff.

Don't know who Messi is although I am sure he mu[b]st be good at what he does. Did he also have a great start followed by adversity?

That is golden :lol:

#1717 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,712 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:45

Care to elaborate? Because I'm looking at his history - and he's got by far the best results of any recent F1 driver whilst climbing through the ranks.

I'm not Glen but I will take a crack at that. Climbing through the ranks he enjoyed top flight equipment. Whitmarsh even said that their mistake was always having him in the best car because he was not used to adversity. I don't have the link in front of me but going by memory Whitmarsh also said they wouldn't always give the next protege the best car so they would get used overcoming more challenges.

I still say he deserved his McLaren seat though and opportunity paid off for Lewis and McLaren. So it was the right move.

Edited by Watkins74, 13 April 2012 - 17:48.


#1718 Anomnader

Anomnader
  • Member

  • 8,616 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:48

Its wierd, in a thread to compare Button vs Lewis in a McLaren team the most vocal posters in it are Alonso fans still disgruntled after 5 years, even when the drivers themselves get on.

#1719 velgajski1

velgajski1
  • Member

  • 3,615 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:48

Speaking of 2007 the embarrassment surely was Hamilton's as well! Having all that team support and at the end not producing the wdc. But to be fair he was a rookie and I think it was ultimately the teams fault for asking too much too soon.


Team support failed quite miserably in China, I mean, I saw on TV 3-4 laps earlier (thats a lot) that his tyres have gone off and that he HAS to be pitted.

Also, it was Fernando Alonso who started the season as McLaren favored driver with all support in the world - he just didn't live up to expectations. In hindsight, had McLaren supported Hamilton from the go as they did to Alonso, he would win WDC quite comfortably in 2007.

Advertisement

#1720 ForzaGTR

ForzaGTR
  • Member

  • 2,941 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 18:20

Team support failed quite miserably in China, I mean, I saw on TV 3-4 laps earlier (thats a lot) that his tyres have gone off and that he HAS to be pitted.

Also, it was Fernando Alonso who started the season as McLaren favored driver with all support in the world - he just didn't live up to expectations. In hindsight, had McLaren supported Hamilton from the go as they did to Alonso, he would win WDC quite comfortably in 2007.


Amen bro.

#1721 currupipi

currupipi
  • Member

  • 1,234 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 18:23

Its wierd, in a thread to compare Button vs Lewis in a McLaren team the most vocal posters in it are Alonso fans still disgruntled after 5 years, even when the drivers themselves get on.


hate to butt in on this but i have to disagree, the disgruntled ones are those who keep coming up with" the silent assasin", martin doesnt love lewis, the team is against lewis, the tires hurt his natural talent, the car is developed towards jenson, if ron was here this wouldnt happen, etc, etc and the real reason why they are so disgruntled is going into their third season together they still have to have this arguement when it was supposed to be a washout


#1722 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,179 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:09

Team support failed quite miserably in China, I mean, I saw on TV 3-4 laps earlier (thats a lot) that his tyres have gone off and that he HAS to be pitted.

Also, it was Fernando Alonso who started the season as McLaren favored driver with all support in the world - he just didn't live up to expectations. In hindsight, had McLaren supported Hamilton from the go as they did to Alonso, he would win WDC quite comfortably in 2007.


Me thinks if the team had burdenend Hamilton with no.1 treatment and the responsibilities that go with it (often forgotten), he would have crashed down much earlier than he did, and harder. A big part of his early season magic in 2007 was down to nothing much being expected of him.

#1723 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,140 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:12

hate to butt in on this but i have to disagree, the disgruntled ones are those who keep coming up with" the silent assasin", martin doesnt love lewis, the team is against lewis, the tires hurt his natural talent, the car is developed towards jenson, if ron was here this wouldnt happen, etc, etc and the real reason why they are so disgruntled is going into their third season together they still have to have this arguement when it was supposed to be a washout


Pretty much true with regards the daft conspiracy theories. Irony is they sound exactly like the excuse making Alonso fans of '07.

#1724 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:18

Me thinks if the team had burdenend Hamilton with no.1 treatment and the responsibilities that go with it (often forgotten), he would have crashed down much earlier than he did, and harder. A big part of his early season magic in 2007 was down to nothing much being expected of him.

Which are what?Making sure your teammate gets bs strategies,is used as a guinea pig,doesn't get near you on track or that not fighting your teammate raises your odds tremendously.

Yeah much harder to do and such a burden :drunk: I'm sure Ham would have crumbled just like in 08-09 when the burden was too heavy on him and he only won a WDC. :stoned:


And nothing was expected of him? Do you have any statements from McLaren top brass saying such?

Edited by MightyMoose, 13 April 2012 - 19:43.
Removed personal attack


#1725 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,179 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:20

Pretty much true with regards the daft conspiracy theories. Irony is they sound exactly like the excuse making Alonso fans of '07.


Nah, by now they have eclipsed that, easily.  ;)

#1726 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,179 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:26

Which are what?Making sure your teammate gets bs strategies,is used as a guinea pig,doesn't get near you on track or that not fighting your teammate raises your odds tremendously.

Yeah much harder to do and such a burden :drunk: I'm sure Ham would have crumbled just like in 08-09 when the burden was too heavy on him and he only won a WDC. :stoned:


And nothing was expected of him? Do you have any statements from McLaren top brass saying such?
It's ridiculous.


Hit a nerve, eh? :p

#1727 currupipi

currupipi
  • Member

  • 1,234 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:41

Pretty much true with regards the daft conspiracy theories. Irony is they sound exactly like the excuse making Alonso fans of '07.


thats the funny part, some of those who were shooting down anyone who would remotely even say something about mclaren screwing alonso and how mclaren give equality are the same ones now weekend after weekend trying to convince everyone of how mclaren are out to screw lewis :rotfl:


#1728 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:43

Hit a nerve, eh? :p


Not really,I just found that whole post rubbish,misinformed and plain stupid.

#1729 tommyhjortasen

tommyhjortasen
  • Member

  • 587 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 13 April 2012 - 19:55

Jenson is superior to Lewis in most areas, perhaps Lewis is a tad faster over a single lap.

Experience, Jenson got it, Lewis not.

#1730 Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast
  • Member

  • 4,299 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 13 April 2012 - 20:04

Me thinks if the team had burdenend Hamilton with no.1 treatment and the responsibilities that go with it (often forgotten), he would have crashed down much earlier than he did, and harder. A big part of his early season magic in 2007 was down to nothing much being expected of him.

AH, burdened with number one status... poor Fernando and Seb.

I think if either driver had been given undisputed #1 status, that driver would have won the WDC. But I doubt if giving that status to a rookie would have been considered by McLaren or tolerated by a certain other driver.

Pretty much true with regards the daft conspiracy theories. Irony is they sound exactly like the excuse making Alonso fans of '07.

My thoughts exactly.

Nah, by now they have eclipsed that, easily. ;)

I don't think they've sent a (deluded but entertaining) petition to the FIA, yet (despite my past promptings).

#1731 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,161 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 13 April 2012 - 20:22

Back on topic please - which is comparing Jenson's and Lewis' performances this year, and not Lewis vs Fernando in 2007.

#1732 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,179 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 April 2012 - 20:46

AH, burdened with number one status... poor Fernando and Seb.

I think if either driver had been given undisputed #1 status, that driver would have won the WDC. But I doubt if giving that status to a rookie would have been considered by McLaren or tolerated by a certain other driver.


Some drivers (humans) thrive with a lot of responsibility, others are better in an underdog position. This is a triviality. The question is now to what group Hamilton belongs. After what I've seen in 5 and a bit years, I tend to place him in the latter category. And no, I got no "proof". :blush:  ;)

I don't think they've sent a (deluded but entertaining) petition to the FIA, yet (despite my past promptings).


Did they? :lol: Escaped me. Usually (and this time too) I refer to what happens here on the board, and there I stand by my claim that Hamilton paranoia has already eclipsed Alonso paranoia from 2007.

#1733 Dunder

Dunder
  • Member

  • 6,784 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 13 April 2012 - 21:09

Some drivers (humans) thrive with a lot of responsibility, others are better in an underdog position. This is a triviality. The question is now to what group Hamilton belongs. After what I've seen in 5 and a bit years, I tend to place him in the latter category. And no, I got no "proof". :blush: ;)


Calls for speculation either way. What happened, happened and everything else is ifs buts and maybes.
I still, despite everything, am glad McLaren let them race.

Did they? :lol: Escaped me. Usually (and this time too) I refer to what happens here on the board, and there I stand by my claim that Hamilton paranoia has already eclipsed Alonso paranoia from 2007.


I think some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous but we are still a long, long way from 2007 levels of paranoia/hysteria IMHO.

#1734 tommyhjortasen

tommyhjortasen
  • Member

  • 587 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 13 April 2012 - 21:16

Jenson is a better driver.

But we will see at the end of the seaon.

#1735 Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast
  • Member

  • 4,299 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 13 April 2012 - 21:18

Did they? :lol: Escaped me. Usually (and this time too) I refer to what happens here on the board, and there I stand by my claim that Hamilton paranoia has already eclipsed Alonso paranoia from 2007.

Unfortunately/Hilariously they did.

I occasionally think "why don't I start keeping a note of everything that doesn't go 100% perfectly for Button" so that I can counter the claims that all the errors/misfortunes happen to Hamilton. Then I remember that that is not what I watch F1 for.

#1736 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 1,795 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 21:22

Jenson is a better driver.

But we will see at the end of the seaon.

:lol:

Lewis is a better driver.

But we will see at the end of the season.
:wave:

#1737 tommyhjortasen

tommyhjortasen
  • Member

  • 587 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 13 April 2012 - 21:30

:lol:

Lewis is a better driver.

But we will see at the end of the season.
:wave:


Forgot. IMO.

But I donĀ“t forgetr Dave


#1738 speng

speng
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 22:19

AH, burdened with number one status... poor Fernando and Seb.

I think if either driver had been given undisputed #1 status, that driver would have won the WDC. But I doubt if giving that status to a rookie would have been considered by McLaren or tolerated by a certain other driver.


My thoughts exactly.


I don't think they've sent a (deluded but entertaining) petition to the FIA, yet (despite my past promptings).

:lol: :lol: So true

#1739 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,179 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 April 2012 - 22:30

I think some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous but we are still a long, long way from 2007 levels of paranoia/hysteria IMHO.


You have to factor in the quite different objective situations, I think. Back then we had open animosity / controversy between team and driver. Now there is nothing of that sort, absolutely zilch, nada, zero. Not a single controversial word spoken in public between Button, Hamilton and the team. Yet still, certain fans of one driver arrive at pretty much the same point now as then. Now just imagine similar public displays of displeasure from one of the involved parties as we had in 2007...

Advertisement

#1740 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,179 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 April 2012 - 22:33

Unfortunately/Hilariously they did.


Wow. :eek:

I occasionally think "why don't I start keeping a note of everything that doesn't go 100% perfectly for Button" so that I can counter the claims that all the errors/misfortunes happen to Hamilton. Then I remember that that is not what I watch F1 for.


Yeah. I know that thought very well when arguing with my wife.  ;)

#1741 hammibal

hammibal
  • Member

  • 1,857 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 22:38

The points are based on those realities anyway. Where there is a tie on points who finished ahead of the other seems simple enough to me, and it is head to head settled on the track stuff. As fair as it gets in F1, and no other drivers stats involved!



Being serious enough! ;)

Points are very arbitrary, they even cause some drivers just to be cautious to 'collect' points. As well the value given to the places don't really give true value to the effort in taking or maintaining a position, some of those midfield battles are tooth and nail but the points awarded are small. Head to head seems less arbitrary to me especially when just comparing two drivers.

No its just a case of coming up with something which gives the result you wish too see after the fact to prove what?

Both drivers were very evenly matched but kudos to Lewis for what he achieved as a rookie against the best driver in F1

#1742 hammibal

hammibal
  • Member

  • 1,857 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 13 April 2012 - 23:01

@halifaxf1fan

You are still stuck in 2007(you are not the only one among Alonso fans on this board it seems), but you forget that only the 2 poor last races of that season save you from the embarassement. The fact that Lewis had not turn a F1 steering wheel before that season but finished in front of him, is an accomplishment itself.


Stop hurting yourself. Do you think that Perez, Grosjean, Vettel, Rosberg would have done the same if they had a Top car in their hand pairing a 2xWDC in their rookie season? Hell no. Evidence and stats(according to what they have achieved in their rookie seasons) tend to indicate that it would have not been the case.


We are in 2012, change your music please before it's too late. Thank you.

I think Halifax is a fan of another driver

I wonder how many races into the season it will be before we have a race where Hamilton doesn't lose out to something that happens in the garage or pit lane.

I was thinking that myself

That's how I read it too - he has less control over Hamilton's race if he's not directly behind him.

Including running Lewis out of tyres in Aus, not saying that was deliberate as such

I just pointed out to ImDDAA, and quite correctly so, that Hamilton had been beaten head to head on Sundays over the course of a season by two of his three teammates. Both Alonso and Button had done this. Button beat him last season and that was 2011, not so far in the past!

Unfortunately we will never know how Vettel, Rosberg, or Button etc would have done in a top car right out of the box. Hamilton had the luxury of the best equipment right from the start and took great advantage of that. The others had to make their way up and earn a top drive with long hours and hard work.

Speaking of 2007 the embarrassment surely was Hamilton's as well! Having all that team support and at the end not producing the wdc. But to be fair he was a rookie and I think it was ultimately the teams fault for asking too much too soon.

Well both Rosberg and Jenson got beat by their teammates in their rookie years, Vettel managed to beat the talent that is Bourdais to gain his topline drive

I'm not Glen but I will take a crack at that. Climbing through the ranks he enjoyed top flight equipment. Whitmarsh even said that their mistake was always having him in the best car because he was not used to adversity. I don't have the link in front of me but going by memory Whitmarsh also said they wouldn't always give the next protege the best car so they would get used overcoming more challenges.

I still say he deserved his McLaren seat though and opportunity paid off for Lewis and McLaren. So it was the right move.

Lewis didnt have the best car in 2004

#1743 halifaxf1fan

halifaxf1fan
  • Member

  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 13 April 2012 - 23:44

No its just a case of coming up with something which gives the result you wish too see after the fact to prove what?

Both drivers were very evenly matched but kudos to Lewis for what he achieved as a rookie against the best driver in F1.



You forget that Raikkonen was the best driver in F1 in 2007. By your math Alonso was only third best! ;)

Ps. Alonso finishing ahead of Hamilton in the majority of the races that season shows he was the more competitive driver of the two I would say.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 13 April 2012 - 23:55.


#1744 itsademo

itsademo
  • Member

  • 404 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 14 April 2012 - 00:19

You forget that Raikkonen was the best driver in F1 in 2007. By your math Alonso was only third best! ;)

Ps. Alonso finishing ahead of Hamilton in the majority of the races that season shows he was the more competitive driver of the two I would say.

say what you want, heck even believe it if you want.

Most people would say its just not good enough to finish ahead in almost all the battles if you lose the war.
Because the history books will always say Alonso lost to a rookie.

Just like they will show with Lewis and Jenson going into their 3rd season together its 1-1
The big question is which of them is more likely to gain their 2nd WDC and for that my monies on Lewis

#1745 ForzaGTR

ForzaGTR
  • Member

  • 2,941 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:03

3-0 to Lewis in quali then

#1746 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:12

Hamilton fans must be smirking at Lewis being right behind Jenson on the grid despite his penalty. Poor performance from Jenson, not really competitive throughout qualifying and on the moment he needed it the most he even lost some of that.

#1747 PARAZAR

PARAZAR
  • Member

  • 1,093 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:16

Yes that was terrible indeed. Lewis did well to qualify second. Just waiting to hear from them.

#1748 Lokt

Lokt
  • Member

  • 460 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:16

Considering that Hamilton knew that he would be taking a 5 place grid drop, he must be really happy seeing that his closest competitors in the WDC is either just in front of him or some places behind him.

He must be pretty happy about that, and I think it showed in the PC.

#1749 Raziel

Raziel
  • Member

  • 2,080 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:19

Over half a second faster then Button, good job Lewis! Very fast qualifying driver no doubt. Shame about penalty thou :well:

#1750 TeamMacca

TeamMacca
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:21

Lewis had excellent race pace from the timing sheet on Friday, i think he has lost a tad of Quali pace leaning towards a better race setup.