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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#1751 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:23

Ah, thanks Jenson. It was the temperature. Déjà vu.

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#1752 TeamMacca

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:24

Jenson is superior to Lewis in most areas, perhaps Lewis is a tad faster over a single lap.

Experience, Jenson got it, Lewis not.


So superior that he can't get the car to work in cold conditions and if he hasn't got the right setup.

Some right tools about.

#1753 Lokt

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:24

Ah, thanks Jenson. It was the temperature. Déjà vu.


TBH almost every driver doing a run in the second half of Q3 seemed slow.. Exception is Koba

Edited by Lokt, 14 April 2012 - 07:25.


#1754 zack1994

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:25

Ah, thanks Jenson. It was the temperature. Déjà vu.

In hindsight going later was a mistake for jenson as temperature droped.

#1755 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:31

In hindsight going later was a mistake for jenson as temperature droped.

Thank you Martin. It's like, he even said 'you could see the temperature dropping'. The team has a detailed data flow on these figures, why not send him out at the start of Q3 like Rosberg?

Definitely gonna remember this team mistake for the rest of the year to use in every discussion.

#1756 Giz

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:33

Let's hope for higher ambient temp tomorrow especially with the race an hour later


#1757 jjcale

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:35

Considering that Hamilton knew that he would be taking a 5 place grid drop, he must be really happy seeing that his closest competitors in the WDC is either just in front of him or some places behind him.

He must be pretty happy about that, and I think it showed in the PC.


Aside from JB and LH its not clear who is going to be fighting for the WDC this year..... if it stays this tight between the best teams, LH's pace over one lap may turn out to be the most decisive factor in this year's WDC.

Rather than this being a Prost v Senna type season as Aus seemed to suggest it might be a GP2 type season of equalish cars.

#1758 jjcale

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:37

Ive no idea what to expect tomorrow BTW... Pre 2011 I would expect LH to finish a head but I've lost a lot of faith in the guy from last year's meltdown... and as Rob Wison said, JB is actually improving - even after all these years.

#1759 PARAZAR

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:37

So what's the revised grid then? Jenson 5th, Webber 6th and Lewis 7th? And were is Alonso? 8th?

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#1760 pinkypants

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:38

Jenson was in a no win situation to be fair as if he had gone out as the session started and the track temps changed to a more advantagous level then people would still be questioning McLaren's strategy. People should be really wondering why he had one set of tyres for Q3.

Solid job from Lewis and Jenson, but throughout the weekend Lewis extracted more speed out of the car. We'll see tomororw if the set up choices they have chosen are the best ones for the race.

#1761 TheBunk

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:39

I think Jenson has a race set up, and perhaps a too short 7th gear.

#1762 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:39

So what's the revised grid then? Jenson 5th, Webber 6th and Lewis 7th? And were is Alonso? 8th?

http://www.f1fanatic...rand-prix-grid/

#1763 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:39

I think Jenson has a race set up, and perhaps a too short 7th gear.

Wa? I think all drivers have a race setup.

#1764 mlsnoopy

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:40

Thank you Martin. It's like, he even said 'you could see the temperature dropping'. The team has a detailed data flow on these figures, why not send him out at the start of Q3 like Rosberg?

Definitely gonna remember this team mistake for the rest of the year to use in every discussion.


You must be joking. So beacause Button can't get temperature into his tyres that is now a team mistake? If the season would have been red
flaged you would have a point, but please don't be so stupid.

#1765 itsademo

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:42

Thank you Martin. It's like, he even said 'you could see the temperature dropping'. The team has a detailed data flow on these figures, why not send him out at the start of Q3 like Rosberg?

Definitely gonna remember this team mistake for the rest of the year to use in every discussion.


so please let us know how you know it was a team decission rather than a jenson call to only go out once to save a set of tyres for the race
As he knew he was off the pace as shown all weekend so far.


#1766 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:42

You must be joking. So beacause Button can't get temperature into his tyres that is now a team mistake? If the season would have been red
flaged you would have a point, but please don't be so stupid.

The track temperature was dropping, that's what I'm saying. If you find that stupid, your call.

#1767 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:44

so please let us know how you know it was a team decission rather than a jenson call to only go out once to save a set of tyres for the race
As he knew he was off the pace as shown all weekend so far.

The same reason why every time anything happens to Hamilton, it's the team to blame?

#1768 PARAZAR

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:47

http://www.f1fanatic...rand-prix-grid/


Thanks! Interesting grid. Kamui in 3rd, Kimi in 4th.

#1769 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:47

Thank you Martin. It's like, he even said 'you could see the temperature dropping'. The team has a detailed data flow on these figures, why not send him out at the start of Q3 like Rosberg?

Definitely gonna remember this team mistake for the rest of the year to use in every discussion.


Don't you know how this thread works? When something bad happens to Jenson it's because he's not good enough and it's his normal level. When something bad happens to Lewis it's because the team are either incompetent or are sabotaging him.  ;)

#1770 itsademo

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:50

The same reason why every time anything happens to Hamilton, it's the team to blame?

so according to YOU its possibly not a team decission when they keep one car out 2 laps more than the other or short fuel only one car?
but it has to be a team decission as to when Jenson goes out.
If that turns out to pay into Jenson's hands tomorrow will we see you suddenly calling it a great call by Jenson?

Edited by itsademo, 14 April 2012 - 07:51.


#1771 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:52

so according to YOU its possibly not a team decission when they keep one car out 2 laps more than the other or short fuel only one car?
but it has to be a team decission as to when Jenson goes out.
If that turns out to pay into Jenson's hands tomorrow we will see you suddenly calling it a great call by Jenson?

What are you even referring to in all these sentences? You're just putting a lot of words in my mouth that make no sense at all. Not going to bother trying to answer.

#1772 PARAZAR

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:54

Don't you know how this thread works? When something bad happens to Jenson it's because he's not good enough and it's his normal level. When something bad happens to Lewis it's because the team are either incompetent or are sabotaging him. ;)


Bad team! Sabotaging Jenson like this. Also it seams that the new upgrades were built around Lewis's driving style. Other drivers have also confirmed that they lost time due to the track's temperature drop and Alonso said that the wind picked up during the second half of Q3. In all honesty though, Jenson looked slightly off the pace through Q2 and Q3.

#1773 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:55

Don't you know how this thread works? When something bad happens to Jenson it's because he's not good enough and it's his normal level. When something bad happens to Lewis it's because the team are either incompetent or are sabotaging him. ;)

It was really a bit tongue in cheek but apparently the sensitivity it too much to handle in here.

I'm still hopeful for Jenson's race, his post-qualy reaction was that he blamed it all on the dropping temperatures and that he was still confident. Good enough for me.

#1774 Anomnader

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:55

I think Jenson has a race set up, and perhaps a too short 7th gear.


oh a change of record, Jenson has a race setup but lewis has a qualifying setup...........


#1775 Lazy

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:06

It was really a bit tongue in cheek but apparently the sensitivity it too much to handle in here.

I'm still hopeful for Jenson's race, his post-qualy reaction was that he blamed it all on the dropping temperatures and that he was still confident. Good enough for me.


And he is is the highest placed of the WDC contenders :)

(unless Merc are moving up into that category ofc)

#1776 silverstonegeneral

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:09

The same reason why every time anything happens to Hamilton, it's the team to blame?


pitstops are not carried out by lewis.
and strategy as the race progresses is something lewis need to rely on his team for.
getting your tyres upto temp is down to the driver.


#1777 silverstonegeneral

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:15

button was struggling with the cooler temps since friday.
and he knows if its cool tomorrow he'll be in big trouble,thats why he's hoping it'll be a warm race tomorrow.
everyone talks about how great jenson is,yes he's a strong driver,but only if everything is working perfectly.
other drivers dont need the car to be working perfectly to get the most out of it,and that requires more skill.

#1778 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:19

And he is is the highest placed of the WDC contenders :)

(unless Merc are moving up into that category ofc)

Seeing how competitive a lot of cars are, I wouldn't talk about WDC contenders at this stage of the season.

#1779 Obi Offiah

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:21

Thank you Martin. It's like, he even said 'you could see the temperature dropping'. The team has a detailed data flow on these figures, why not send him out at the start of Q3 like Rosberg?

Definitely gonna remember this team mistake for the rest of the year to use in every discussion.

You do realise both cars went out late, not just Jenson, so the low temps effected all the late runners.

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#1780 P123

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:22

Seeing how competitive a lot of cars are, I wouldn't talk about WDC contenders at this stage of the season.


It looks like it could be a classic season. Close enough in quali anyway that we should have a number of 'irregular' grids throughout the season. I think 4 different chassis were covered by less than 0.25s in Malaysia quali, which is remarkable.

#1781 hunnylander

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:23

Interesting how this McLaren thread is all about his position on the grid and how his race is gonna be.

Maybe because Button was grey in qualifying and Hamilton has more fans globally; and Shanghai is amongst LH's best tracks. So fans may see more potential for a Hamilton win than a Button win. (Not sure about the UK regarding JB vs LH popularity, but this board is pretty much international.)

Edited by hunnylander, 14 April 2012 - 08:24.


#1782 P123

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:25

You do realise both cars went out late, not just Jenson, so the low temps effected all the late runners.


I think Lights was perhaps having a dig at those that see every team error as some sort of sinister anti-Hamilton plot. If only people would realise that mistakes do happen, and that the McLaren pitwall aren't always the most competent when it comes to decision making. Too much of a committee with their heads buried in worthless data...

#1783 hunnylander

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:30

JB wanted to do one run in Q3. And teams usually do this at the end of the session, when more cars on track in anger, because the tyres of the cars affect the temps of the racing line positively.

#1784 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:40

You do realise both cars went out late, not just Jenson, so the low temps effected all the late runners.

You do realise that Lewis got his timed lap immediately after Schumacher at the start of q3 and Button sat in the garage for all of that time and then some 4 minutes more?

Just that if you start your post with a condescending "you do realise" it's best to get your own overview of the data really spot on... :wave:

Otherwise, not the best of qualifiers from Jenson. Lewis was spot on as usual. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

#1785 trogggy

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:42

You do realise both cars went out late, not just Jenson, so the low temps effected all the late runners.

:confused:
Hamilton did 2 runs - one at the start of Q3 on scrubbed tyres, the other at the end on new ones. The second run was slower, and he abandoned it (although he may have done anyway given the times).
How does that translate to 'both cars went out late'?

#1786 Obi Offiah

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:46

You do realise that Lewis got his timed lap immediately after Schumacher at the start of q3 and Button sat in the garage for all of that time and then some 4 minutes more?

Just that if you start your post with a condescending "you do realise" it's best to get your own overview of the data really spot on... :wave:

Otherwise, not the best of qualifiers from Jenson. Lewis was spot on as usual. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

My apologies Lights.

According to Martin Brundle Lewis was setting PB's on his final run. I assumed he abandoned because Nico was out of reach.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 14 April 2012 - 08:47.


#1787 TheBunk

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:51

oh a change of record, Jenson has a race setup but lewis has a qualifying setup...........



I wonder how this thread would explode when Withmarsh would say theyl try and get Jenson on pole.

#1788 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:56

Another interesting observation. The Worst Astrologist On The Planet ™ Jenson Button (when have his pre race predictions been anything short of embarrassing?) in his post qualify interview was going on about how the guys in front of him all except perhaps Kobayashi were going to have a worse race pace than him, completely ignoring a certain K. M. Räikkonen just a slot ahead of him in a Lotus that has been both fast and easy on tyres at races. We shall see it that thing too comes back to bite him in the ass tomorrow.

#1789 P123

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:59

Another interesting observation. The Worst Astrologist On The Planet ™ Jenson Button (when have his pre race predictions been anything short of embarrassing?) in his post qualify interview was going on about how the guys in front of him all except perhaps Kobayashi were going to have a worse race pace than him, completely ignoring a certain K. M. Räikkonen just a slot ahead of him in a Lotus that has been both fast and easy on tyres at races. We shall see it that thing too comes back to bite him in the ass tomorrow.


Nah, I'm sure he will notice Kimi ahead of him on the grid.

#1790 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:03

Nah, I'm sure he will notice Kimi ahead of him on the grid.

T'was the only guy ahead of him he managed not to mention in his interveiw :)

#1791 revlec

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:06

My apologies Lights.

According to Martin Brundle Lewis was setting PB's on his final run. I assumed he abandoned because Nico was out of reach.


Exactly.
In his second run in Q3, Lewis did a 25.2 in S1 while BUT did a 25.4 in S1 (HAM was behind BUT on the track in his second Q3 lap when it was cold, and was already 2 tenths faster in S1 alone).

ROS did a 25.0 in his pole lap, so i think Lewis and his team realized it was impossible to beat ROS because ROS S3 sector was purple too, they decided then to abort the lap and save tyres for tomorrow.

#1792 Obi Offiah

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:09

Yes that was what I was thinking revlec. But what was Lewis S2 time during his second run verses his first?

#1793 Lokt

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:12

Yes that was what I was thinking revlec. But what was Lewis S2 time during his second run verses his first?


I remember he did a 28.7 in his second run. He had a faster in his first run but can´t remember what it was, but think it was 28.5

Edited by Lokt, 14 April 2012 - 09:13.


#1794 revlec

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:13

Yes that was what I was thinking revlec. But what was Lewis S2 time during his second run verses his first?


I don't remember exactly, but i will think it was slower than his previous S2.

#1795 Lokt

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:15

I don't remember exactly, but i will think it was slower than his previous S2.


I looked it up he did a 28.5 in his first run. Then 28.7 in his second run.



#1796 learningtobelost

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:15

To be fair they made the mistake for both drivers, they sent Lewis out on used options on his first run, saving the new set for when the track was less optimum. I presume JB did only one run because he had one less set of unused options, due to having to do another run in Q2?

#1797 Lazy

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:19

To be fair they made the mistake for both drivers, they sent Lewis out on used options on his first run, saving the new set for when the track was less optimum. I presume JB did only one run because he had one less set of unused options, due to having to do another run in Q2?


Both of them did.


#1798 revlec

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:21

Both of them did.


I think he wanted to say Q1.

#1799 Obi Offiah

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:22

I looked it up he did a 28.5 in his first run. Then 28.7 in his second run.

Thanks Lokt :up:

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#1800 silverstonegeneral

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:22

:confused:
Hamilton did 2 runs - one at the start of Q3 on scrubbed tyres, the other at the end on new ones. The second run was slower, and he abandoned it (although he may have done anyway given the times).
How does that translate to 'both cars went out late'?


his second run was slower,but he was still quicker than button in the first 2 sectors,eventhough he was behind button who was struggling because of the temp.
but lewis's lap wouldnt have beaten rosbergs great lap so lewis abandoned it.