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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#1851 karlth

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:57

Hamilton and Button seemed about equal today. Lewis was unlikely with traffic while Button had his bad pitstop. Pace wise they seemed equal.

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#1852 f1fastestlap

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:59

What was the bad strategy for Lewis?

Pitting right in the middle of traffic...

#1853 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:00

Good result for us. Would have been interesting if Jenson didn't have the bad pitstop. Race pace between both was similar, but Jenson was in a better position to extract more from the tyres.

Couldn't have put it better. I think Hamilton did well to look after his tyres seeing as he was in more traffic.

#1854 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:00

Good result for us. Would have been interesting if Jenson didn't have the bad pitstop. Race pace between both was similar, but Jenson was in a better position to extract more from the tyres.

Couldn't have put it better. I think Hamilton did well to look after his tyres seeing as he was in more traffic.

#1855 hammibal

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:01

Scorecard:

Lewis 5 - 4 Jenson

#1856 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:01

Pitting right in the middle of traffic...

Because he had to, obviously. Anyone besides Rosberg had constant traffic. Not really McLaren's fault.

#1857 hammibal

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:02

Because he had to, obviously. Anyone besides Rosberg had constant traffic. Not really McLaren's fault.

They could have stayed out longer on the tyres like Rosberg did and avoid the traffic

#1858 bonjon1979a

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:02

Scorecard:

Lewis 5 - 4 Jenson


Why is it 5-4?

#1859 f1fastestlap

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:03

Because he had to, obviously. Anyone besides Rosberg had constant traffic. Not really McLaren's fault.

No they hadn't. They only had to wait 2 laps to clear massa...
They knew where he would have end up if they pitted when they did...

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#1860 TheBunk

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:03

Not much between them today, but id say Button was the better driver.

#1861 jjcale

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:03

If today was my first day watching F1 and I was looking for a driver to support I could have been a JB fan... what an awesome race from him today.

Shame about the last stop ... obviously Whitmarsh reads this thread and told the guys to even up the bad luck, ;)

LH was also very good (esp on the second set of options) but JB was different class today.... its gonna be one hell of a battle this season.

#1862 ImDDAA

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:04

Both drivers were brilliant and both got a little slice of bad luck - Hamilton seemingly always came out behind aggressive drivers, who made him work hard to pass and of course Button lost time in the pits then came out into traffic. I think they both maximised their potential on track and it's hard to call who performed the best.

#1863 hammibal

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:04

Button was better.

Jenson had better track position caused by Lewis's penalty

#1864 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05

Because he had to, obviously. Anyone besides Rosberg had constant traffic. Not really McLaren's fault.

Button only had severe traffic toward the end of the race, before the first stops he was 2 seconds ahead of Hamilton but was put back into much clean air. Its certainly a fault on McLarens part that with their drivers being so close together they managed to dump one into traffic and one not. One or two more laps would have been fine, but oh well.

#1865 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05

Because he had to, obviously. Anyone besides Rosberg had constant traffic. Not really McLaren's fault.

Button only had severe traffic toward the end of the race, before the first stops he was 2 seconds ahead of Hamilton but was put back into much clean air. Its certainly a fault on McLarens part that with their drivers being so close together they managed to dump one into traffic and one not. One or two more laps would have been fine, but oh well.

#1866 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05

They could have stayed out longer on the tyres like Rosberg did and avoid the traffic

When, in the first round of stops? He pitted only one lap before Button. And the pitcrew got him ahead of Raikkonen.

Did everybody read that correctly? He pitted before Button, while being behind him. The possibilities.......

#1867 advan031

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05

Great Job by both drivers today! Too bad they couldn't win but at least they were ahead of the Red Bull drivers.

#1868 jjcale

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05

What was the bad strategy for Lewis?


Nah the team looked after him well today... we cant complain.

#1869 slmk

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:06

What was the bad strategy for Lewis?


Timing of the pit stop. One or two laps later and Lewis wouldn't have been stuck at the far end of that Raikkonen-train; just like Button.

Button also got shafted, but that was luck running out more than a poor strategy by McLaren.

And you have yet to congratulate Lewis... :smoking:

#1870 ForzaGTR

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:06

Great performance from both drivers.

#1871 hammibal

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:06

Why is it 5-4?

One point for qualifying 2 points for the race

#1872 TeamMacca

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:06

So Jenson will need Lewis to get a 5 grid penalty every race and hope its not cold in Quali?

Lewis leads the championship!!!!

Good job by both today, unlucky for Jenson in the pits.

#1873 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:07

Nah the team looked after him well today... we cant complain.

Lot of complaining going on, however.

Whether he pits before Button, or after him, it's never good enough for some of his fans.

#1874 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:07

Not much between them today, but id say Button was the better driver.


Any reason why?!

For me, at this stage, it's a draw because jenson finished ahead and had the pit stop issue but Lewis shouldn't have been starting from 7th in the first place (it's a weekend score for me), was constantly put in traffic and still came through to 3rd.

So far he's out qualified jenson 3 times and every time it's been nullified through no fault of his own (oz clutch, Malaysia slow pit stop, here penalty) - hopefully he'll continue quali dominance and it will start to pay off, particularly if cars are close so a cope of tenhs means cars between them on the grid.

#1875 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:08

Not much between them today, but id say Button was the better driver.

You would.

#1876 f1fastestlap

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:09

Lot of complaining going on, however.

Whether he pits before Button, or after him, it's never good enough for some of his fans.


Stop making this a who pitted first contest.
This is about the race position after the pitstop.
They didn't do a good job and that's a fact...

#1877 hammibal

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:09

When, in the first round of stops? He pitted only one lap before Button. And the pitcrew got him ahead of Raikkonen.

Did everybody read that correctly? He pitted before Button, while being behind him. The possibilities.......

No they pitted early at the second stop imo

#1878 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:10

Any reason why?!

For me, at this stage, it's a draw because jenson finished ahead and had the pit stop issue but Lewis shouldn't have been starting from 7th in the first place (it's a weekend score for me), was constantly put in traffic and still came through to 3rd.

So far he's out qualified jenson 3 times and every time it's been nullified through no fault of his own (oz clutch, Malaysia slow pit stop, here penalty) - hopefully he'll continue quali dominance and it will start to pay off, particularly if cars are close so a cope of tenhs means cars between them on the grid.

I thought you didn't do draws? A serious :down:

#1879 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:10

Any reason why?!

For me, at this stage, it's a draw because jenson finished ahead and had the pit stop issue but Lewis shouldn't have been starting from 7th in the first place (it's a weekend score for me), was constantly put in traffic and still came through to 3rd.

So far he's out qualified jenson 3 times and every time it's been nullified through no fault of his own (oz clutch, Malaysia slow pit stop, here penalty) - hopefully he'll continue quali dominance and it will start to pay off, particularly if cars are close so a cope of tenhs means cars between them on the grid.

:up:

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#1880 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:10

Stop making this a who pitted first contest.
This is about the race position after the pitstop.
They didn't do a good job and that's a fact...

McLaren won Hamilton a place. That is a fact.

#1881 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:10

Lot of complaining going on, however.

Whether he pits before Button, or after him, it's never good enough for some o his fans.

Hamilton was put into heaps of traffic which really f-$+ed his race whereas Button was given the chance to race Rosberg. All McLaren had to do was leave it a lap or two more and they would have cleared the traffic, for both drivers.

#1882 BinaryDad

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:12

Whether he pits before Button, or after him, it's never good enough for some of his fans.


Oh, give it a rest.

Hamilton got was pitted and ended up in tougher traffic compared to Button, that's all. Like you say it wasn't McLaren's fault, but Lewis did a stand up job of crawling to third.

Button had an easier race until the pit error, but he did well to to crawl to second.


#1883 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:12

No they pitted early at the second stop imo

Then perhaps Hamilton shouldn't have started running out of tyres. He was losing time on Jenson for several laps, so pitted. Button didn't pit the next lap. He could've pitted later, but he didn't have the grip anymore.

Had he continued, people here would have complained that they kept him out too long due to lost time from tyre wear. Now he went in too early. It's never good enough and it's getting quit pathetic to read a lot of these comments here after every race.

#1884 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:12

Hamilton and Button seemed about equal today. Lewis was unlikely with traffic while Button had his bad pitstop. Pace wise they seemed equal.


They really didn't if you were to pay attention to the sector times over the whole race and not only in a selected handful of laps.

#1885 ImDDAA

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:13

When, in the first round of stops? He pitted only one lap before Button. And the pitcrew got him ahead of Raikkonen.

Did everybody read that correctly? He pitted before Button, while being behind him. The possibilities.......


The driver leading the championship was pitted first...strange coincidence!

Thought McLaren were pretty good with the strategy today and avoiding traffic was impossible, the cars were all so close.

#1886 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:14

On the tyres front, Hamilton stuck with Button with older tires in the first stint, and then managed to stick with him in the last stint with older tires that had been through more traffic, this is part of the reason I'd give it to Lewis. 55-45 % in his favour

#1887 ZooL

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:15

It was always going to be a weekend of damanged limitation for Hamilton because of a 5 place penalty. With that in mind Hamilton did very well to finish right behind Button.

With Hamilton's penalty Button really should have won this race but he was too slow in qualifying. It's races like these Button needs to make maximum advantage because in other races he will be outqualifed by Hamilton making his job of overhauling Hamilton difficult, especially when its so difficult to overtake a sister car and the lead driver will get the strategy call.

#1888 Boxerevo

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:15

I will don't give Button this one.

Nice guy always on the optimal strategy.

Both guys again separeted by 2,5s and later 13s+

If wasn't the mistake on the pitstop Button would get a easy second position,and Hamilton that was 2,5 behind...a hell of a race to do.

Edited by Boxerevo, 15 April 2012 - 09:16.


#1889 slmk

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:16

Then perhaps Hamilton shouldn't have started running out of tyres. He was losing time on Jenson for several laps, so pitted. Button didn't pit the next lap. He could've pitted later, but he didn't have the grip anymore.

Had he continued, people here would have complained that they kept him out too long due to lost time from tyre wear. Now he went in too early. It's never good enough and it's getting quit pathetic to read a lot of these comments here after every race.


And how exactly do you know this?

#1890 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:17

McLaren won Hamilton a place. That is a fact.

The strategy for Lewis was good. His problem was the penalty he received for the gearbox change. I think they brought him in early to cover Webber.

#1891 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:18

Timing of the pit stop. One or two laps later and Lewis wouldn't have been stuck at the far end of that Raikkonen-train; just like Button.

Button also got shafted, but that was luck running out more than a poor strategy by McLaren.

And you have yet to congratulate Lewis... :smoking:

Like I said, great race from Jenson. Lewis did not impress me as much. Getting 3rd from where he started, is a good result. But at some points in the race, he had the opportunity to challenge Button, but he never threatened him. He did not show at all he had better pace, if anything, Lewis was slightly slower over the course of a stint, and he also had a harder time getting through the same traffic that Jenson had already gone through. That's my verdict.

#1892 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:18

Then perhaps Hamilton shouldn't have started running out of tyres. He was losing time on Jenson for several laps, so pitted. Button didn't pit the next lap. He could've pitted later, but he didn't have the grip anymore.

Had he continued, people here would have complained that they kept him out too long due to lost time from tyre wear. Now he went in too early. It's never good enough and it's getting quit pathetic to read a lot of these comments here after every race.

Pathetic? No, this sport is a precise business, had Hamilton gone on the first stint for 1 or 2 laps longer he would have cleared traffic and his tyres probably would have just hung on, he might have dropped further behind Button, say 4 seconds, but not the 14 due to traffic. McLaren weren't precise enough today with strategy and the stop with Jenson.

#1893 ImDDAA

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:19

They really didn't if you were to pay attention to the sector times over the whole race and not only in a selected handful of laps.


Not sure how useful sector times will be, Jenson was in free air more often and his overtakes were simple passes down the straight generally - which is credit to him, but Hamilton ended up behind a couple of tricky drivers which made his job a little more awkward. I think it's clear both drivers were very good.

#1894 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:20

I thought you didn't do draws? A serious :down:


I haven't previously, Singapore 2010 was the nearest I got.

But let me see, I've written 2 posts stating it will be difficult to call and stating that my opinion is 'at this stage', which is a fairly clear signal I am open to debate on this point.

I've then explained the reasons for my opinion...and your second sentence is your response? You can get fed up with other posters and call them pathetic all you like mate but if you respond like that rather than actually discussing the race sensibly then you're acting in exactly the same way, don't you think?

#1895 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:20

And how exactly do you know this?

It's what I remember from live timing. But it was a messy race, and I'll take these words back for now because I might confuse it with a later pitstop.

#1896 P123

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:21

Good race by both drivers. Both maximised what was possible. Unfortunately Lewis' early first stop seemed to mire him in the DRS train for most of the race, and JB's slow stop ensure he was stuck in it later on and therefore unable to put any pressure on Rosberg.

#1897 Boxerevo

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:21

I am tired with this bs,i want war.



#1898 Jamiednm

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:22

They really didn't if you were to pay attention to the sector times over the whole race and not only in a selected handful of laps.


I wasn't watching LT today - who was the consistently faster McLaren? I assume Button because of more clear air.

#1899 bonjon1979a

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:23

Then perhaps Hamilton shouldn't have started running out of tyres. He was losing time on Jenson for several laps, so pitted. Button didn't pit the next lap. He could've pitted later, but he didn't have the grip anymore.

Had he continued, people here would have complained that they kept him out too long due to lost time from tyre wear. Now he went in too early. It's never good enough and it's getting quit pathetic to read a lot of these comments here after every race.


I think their hand was forced because Hamilton set his fastest time on a set of soft tyres that he used in Q2 so they had done three extra laps than Jenson.

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#1900 TheBunk

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:23

Jenson had better track position caused by Lewis's penalty



Lewis got a penalty? Huh?