Jump to content


Photo

2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4041 replies to this topic

#151 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,302 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:47

Red Bull's pace was about the same towards the end (Button and Vettel).

Yes, exactly. Red Bull showed great pace on worn tyres, has me worried a bit.

Advertisement

#152 MrAerodynamicist

MrAerodynamicist
  • Member

  • 13,665 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:47

Controlled Jenson. Rather muted afternoon by Lewis topped with some bad luck in the form the SC.

#153 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,774 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:48

Well done to Jenson, strong controlled race, and a brilliant drive...flawless :up:

Lewis unlucky with the safety car, but didn't seem to have the pace or the tyre management, and didn't even try an optional strategy. Once they made it into the first corner unless he had a significant pace advantage (which he didn't) he was never going to pass.

Disappointed but good for Jenson onto the next race.

#154 Sevach

Sevach
  • Member

  • 966 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:48

Button :up: fantastic

No arguments, my jaw dropped.

#155 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 7,916 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:49

Not such a great race for LH, but still 3rd. JB is definitely the master of Melbourne. As expected due to Webber's KERS issues in quali the Red Bulls real pace was disguised. Should be a close season.

#156 williams96

williams96
  • Member

  • 980 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:50

The signs were there yesterday when Button was so close in qualifying which is usually where he falls foul. Button is a match for an on form Hamilton too. Going to be a cracking year. :up:

#157 Kerch

Kerch
  • Member

  • 1,054 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:50

I think Lewis had a different gearing to Jenson, based on the speed traps during FP3 and Qualy, so maybe that made a difference.

#158 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:50

JB was super today and Ham was slow,also his team didn't help him much strategy/pitstops wise.

1-0 JB

#159 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,342 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:50

Very disappointed with HAM today, from pole to 3rd with the best car. Brillant race by Button, like a silent assassin.

Advertisement

#160 TheBunk

TheBunk
  • Member

  • 4,083 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:50

And another win, the first one of 2012, championship leader: Jenson Button. Couldnt have done it any better. Majestic, dominant, superior all the race through.

#161 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 7,981 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:52

Congrats to jenson, great use of the car and reminiscent of vettel last year the way he stormed ahead at the start and after SC.

The situation after the pit stops shows how important it is to have track position over your teammate...which is exactly why I think Lewis will have the advantage thanks to quali but it doesn't' work if you don't keep the lead into the first corner!

Very frustrating that vettel got ahead under the SC, can't quite figure out how he got so far ahead if they were both driving to a delta, due to going quicker down the initial part of the pit lane? Anyway, vey unfortunate given great work by the pit crew to doule stop and ensure lewis couldn't be jumped by seb (in theory!).

Most concerning thing was whether lewis could match JB's pace, I suspect he wasn't pushing to save tyres but his tyres didn't hold up any better than jensons so it's kind of irrelevant if he could have pushed harder.

#162 Boxerevo

Boxerevo
  • Member

  • 1,890 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:52

The way he created the gap on the start and later on the restart,he pushed to 3s and the controlled the race,masterpiece.

Things will be hard for Lewis,if he want to be the best,he has to beat the bests ones.

#163 revlec

revlec
  • Member

  • 2,721 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:53

I think whoever was ahead after the first corner would have won.

They should have three stopped Lewis!


I thought like you but Lewis had no chance today. BUT was just faster faster and better today.. nothing to be ashamed of..

I think Lewis's engineering team is not doing a great job..

#164 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 7,981 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:53

JB was super today and Ham was slow,also his team didn't help him much strategy/pitstops wise.

1-0 JB


They were perfect, just unlucky.

#165 Jayarem

Jayarem
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:53

Congratuations to Jenson, the better driver today, he looks super confident at the moment. Lewis unlucky with the safety car, but couldn't match Jenson today. I'd like to see McLaren trying some different strategies with Lewis, tire management clearly isn't his strong point, and possibly a 3 stopper would have been better, and given Lewis the opportunity to push more.

#166 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:53

Good time to place a bet on JB for WDC,I wouldn't be surprised a bit.


Awesome job by Jenson,gonna be a cracking year I think.

#167 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,302 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:55

The way he created the gap on the start and later on the restart,he pushed to 3s and the controlled the race,masterpiece.

Haven't seen him do that since exactly 3 years ago. Surprised me, he has really got rid of his safety car tyre issue from many years ago. Still had a me worried a bit when he didn't seem to do much for his tyres.

#168 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 430 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:55

I thought like you but Lewis had no chance today. BUT was just faster faster and better today.. nothing to be ashamed of..

I think Lewis's engineering team is not doing a great job..


Yeah - they gave him a car fast enough for Pole......

.....and then fluffed his start for him.

Damn those engineers.

#169 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 16,170 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:57

Deleted Trolling already.

Please keep it clean. If you're posting with a view to winding others up, I suggest you stop now or moderate your posts.

#170 BinaryDad

BinaryDad
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:58

Yeah - they gave him a car fast enough for Pole......

.....and then fluffed his start for him.

Damn those engineers.


Pole with little fuel. I dunno...I can't really tell if somebody replaced the Hamilton from yesterday with his slightly less talented twin, if it was a quali/race setup balance issue or if there was something wrong with the car.

Either way, a deserved win for Jenson there. Not the result I wanted (would have preferred a 1-2) but not a bad start to the season.

Edited by BinaryDad, 18 March 2012 - 07:58.


#171 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 1,756 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:58

Yeah - they gave him a car fast enough for Pole......

.....and then fluffed his start for him.

Damn those engineers.


Yeah, this damn race was only about that, pole and start, go figure nothing else happened...

#172 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 430 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:58

Yeah - they gave him a car fast enough for Pole......

.....and then fluffed his start for him.

Damn those engineers.


Actually f*ck it.

MW just blamed Lewis AND the engineers for the start.

#173 revlec

revlec
  • Member

  • 2,721 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:58

Yeah - they gave him a car fast enough for Pole......

.....and then fluffed his start for him.

Damn those engineers.


did you watch Live timing?
do you now how suspensions or differentials are supposed to work?
Lewis was slow slow i am 100% sure BUT would have win this even if he was 2nd after the first corner.

p.s. it's my opinion

Edited by revlec, 18 March 2012 - 08:00.


#174 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 430 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:00

did you watch Live timing?
do you now how suspensions or differentials are supposed to work?
Lewis was slow slow i am 100% BUT would have win this even if he was 2nd after the first corner.

p.s. it's my opinion



I was being sarcastic!

Jenson was CLEARLY faster.

#175 Force Ten

Force Ten
  • Member

  • 2,738 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:00

Congrats to jenson, great use of the car and reminiscent of vettel last year the way he stormed ahead at the start and after SC.

Agreed, a very "Vettel" victory for Button. As a fan, happy... Hamilton probably lost the race in the first corner and was really unlucky with the SC. Without that the second sequence of Mac pitstops seemed brilliant.

#176 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,302 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:00

did you watch Live timing?
do you now how suspensions or differentials are supposed to work?
Lewis was slow slow i am 100% BUT would have win this even if he was 2nd after the first corner.

p.s. it's my opinion

How? Button never created a gap larger than 4 seconds on Hamilton. Not different enough to overtake someone.

#177 Boxerevo

Boxerevo
  • Member

  • 1,890 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:00

I think Lewis had a different gearing to Jenson, based on the speed traps during FP3 and Qualy, so maybe that made a difference.

We have to see more races,but,i am worried,what a challenge will be.

Edited by Boxerevo, 18 March 2012 - 08:03.


#178 theTruth

theTruth
  • Member

  • 516 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:00

It's just "business," a nasty one at that. Good thing no lives were at stake (unlike on the world stage).


Edited by theTruth, 18 March 2012 - 08:04.


#179 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,083 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:01

Oh, Lewis. Haven't you learned? You should be happy with a podium, even if you expected more on the day. Being dejected just makes you look silly and frankly gives Jenson an even greater psychological edge.

Advertisement

#180 Boxerevo

Boxerevo
  • Member

  • 1,890 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:02

I think Lewis had a different gearing to Jenson, based on the speed traps during FP3 and Qualy, so maybe that made a difference.

Don't know,but one thing is sure,Button has better overall race pace since 2011.

We have to see more races,but,i am worried.

Lets pray Button is just the better one on Melbourne and not Lewis underperforming.

#181 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 1,756 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:02

I was being sarcastic!

Jenson was CLEARLY faster.


You mean the first few laps, and then he never was above the 4-5sec... The rest of the stints don't count has lewis was never in clean air...

#182 revlec

revlec
  • Member

  • 2,721 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:03

I was being sarcastic!

Jenson was CLEARLY faster.


oh sorry.. i apologise.. :blush:

#183 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 4,926 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:03

Congrats to Jenson, win reminiscent of Vettel's last year... always said what Vettel did was not so special that Jenson and co couldn't do given the car

They were perfect, just unlucky.


they kept him out way too late in the first stint... at some point, the gap to Vettel was like 10 sec... after the first stops it was about 1 sec.

it was terrible leaving him out so long especially with the tires clearly going off and the rest of the field closing rapidly.

But Lewis brought it on himself by not having a good start... and not having great race pace.

The latter should be the biggest concern for any Lewis fan... his race pace was not there, the car looked uncharacteristically sluggish in his hands.

That combined with just how much the team destroyed his early lead just so Jenson could pit at his optimum time suggests the rumors that the team is rallying around Jenson are probably true.

Its becoming more and more likely this is Lewis last year at Mclaren.

Edited by bauss, 18 March 2012 - 08:04.


#184 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:04

They were perfect, just unlucky.

First stop he lost too much time I think.But he was slow all race,I hope he's got the tires sorted out or it's gonna be a long season

#185 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,302 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:04

Oh, Lewis. Haven't you learned? You should be happy with a podium, even if you expected more on the day. Being dejected just makes you look silly and frankly gives Jenson an even greater psychological edge.

That's exactly the word the FIA press conference guy used. He doesn't look happy indeed but I wouldn't expect him to.

#186 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,774 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:05

Oh, Lewis. Haven't you learned? You should be happy with a podium, even if you expected more on the day. Being dejected just makes you look silly and frankly gives Jenson an even greater psychological edge.


:confused: He congratulated Jenson like a good sport so everything else is academic. I want him pissed, its clear that its going to take everything he has to beat Jenson.

#187 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,302 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:05

Don't know,but one thing is sure,Button has better overall race pace since 2011.

We have to see more races,but,i am worried.

Lets pray Button is just the better one on Melbourne and not Lewis underperforming.

It is one of his best circuits. 3 wins in 4 years now.

#188 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 1,756 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:06

That's exactly the word the FIA press conference guy used. He doesn't look happy indeed but I wouldn't expect him to.


If I were on his place I wouldn't be happy, as most of people...Nothing new

#189 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,194 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:06

Oh, Lewis. Haven't you learned? You should be happy with a podium, even if you expected more on the day. Being dejected just makes you look silly and frankly gives Jenson an even greater psychological edge.

Couldn't disagree more.
Button might gain a psychological edge from winning the race, but how is LH supposed to be / look happy with 3rd?

#190 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 430 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:06

You mean the first few laps, and then he never was above the 4-5sec... The rest of the stints don't count has lewis was never in clean air...


Any time Jenson NEEDED to go faster, he did.

You're forgetting that tyre/fuel management is critical these days.

#191 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 7,981 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:07

Congrats to Jenson, win reminiscent of Vettel's last year... always said what Vettel did was not so special that Jenson and co couldn't do given the car



they kept him out way too late in the first stint... at some point, the gap to Vettel was like 10 sec... after the first stops it was about 1 sec.

it was terrible leaving him out so long especially with the tires clearly going off and the rest of the field closing rapidly.


But Lewis brought it on himself by not having a good start... and not having great race pace.

The latter should be the biggest concern for any Lewis fan... his race pace was not there, the car looked uncharacteristically sluggish in his hands.

That combined with just how much the team destroyed his early lead just so Jenson could pit at his optimum time suggests the rumors that the team is rallying around Jenson are probably true.

Its becoming more and more likely this is Lewis last year at Mclaren.


Lead driver gets the call.

Which makes sense because otherwise the lead driver would have to come in earlier than anticipated purely to stop the guy behind getting an advantage.

Happened in china last year too, tough luch, be the one ahead.

#192 libano

libano
  • Member

  • 235 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:07

If you look at the speed trap during Q3 you can see that Jenson was 4kph slower than Lewis, therefore probably chose a setup with more wing and aerodynamic grip. In a heavy car that is a huge advantage. The race was decided yesterday, Jenson's car was simply better set up.

#193 Force Ten

Force Ten
  • Member

  • 2,738 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:07

they kept him out way too late in the first stint... at some point, the gap to Vettel was like 10 sec... after the first stops it was about 1 sec.

it was terrible leaving him out so long especially with the tires clearly going off and the rest of the field closing rapidly.

My best guess is they had no other option. Button as the leader had the preference for optimal strategy and Hamilton's second and third stint would have been severely compromised if he would have pitted 1 lap earlier than optimal (read: Button). So they had to stay out for another lap and the tires were toast after that.

#194 libano

libano
  • Member

  • 235 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:07

If you look at the speed trap during Q3 you can see that Jenson was 4kph slower than Lewis, therefore probably chose a setup with more wing and aerodynamic grip. In a heavy car that is a huge advantage. The race was decided yesterday, Jenson's car was simply better set up.

#195 TheBunk

TheBunk
  • Member

  • 4,083 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:08

Glowing remarks on Button from Vettel. 'There was nothing I could do on him. Two corners and he was away'

#196 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 6,864 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:08

Superb win by Jenson. That's what we like to see :up:

#197 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 1,756 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:09

Any time Jenson NEEDED to go faster, he did.

You're forgetting that tyre/fuel management is critical these days.

So did lewis after passing perez...

#198 zack1994

zack1994
  • Member

  • 2,368 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:09

Lewis wasn't slow the gap before the first pits was like 3-4 seconds jenson was just a little bit quicker.
Lewis shouldn't be down he's got a podium, he should be very strong in malaysia.
Great drive by jenson absolutely perfect :up:

#199 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,083 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:12

Couldn't disagree more.
Button might gain a psychological edge from winning the race, but how is LH supposed to be / look happy with 3rd?


Because he's supposed to be living his dream of being a Formula One driver and he's on the podium of the first race of the year. How many drivers can you remember that were annoyed that they only came in third in the first race? Or any race?

Being annoyed is a sign of weakness and it's unproductive. The mechanics won't like it either.

Think about what Jenson would be doing if the situation was reversed - he'd be all smiles and saying how it's great to start the year with a podium (just ask Michael and Nico about the start of their year) and how he'd be trying to get one back on Lewis in Malaysia next week. He certainly wouldn't be pouting like a child.

Sorry, I'm just disappointed that he hasn't figured this out yet. I really thought he had matured a lot in the off season, but right now it appears not. Let's hope I'm wrong.

Advertisement

#200 Force Ten

Force Ten
  • Member

  • 2,738 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:12

So did lewis after passing perez...

Well, he did. It was the "good ole days" all over again. Early in the stint when Button reported to have problems with vibrations in his tires Lewis was faster than him by 1 seconds a lap on ONE lap. Later on the stint Button made up the same time difference and more over a few laps. Overall on pace they were about equal with But edging a bit, of course we have no idea what their strategies, fuel mappings et all were on those laps.