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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#2251 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:34

I guess running 2 seconds behind Ricciardo is being held up by him and i dont see 1 clear lap where Jenson wa quicker

Timing
Which laps are you talking about?

Was that because he knew that Lewis would come out in traffic though?

Don't be ridiculous. How the heck does a driver know where they're going to feed back in? Let alone where their team-mate will end up after a stop.

Edited by trogggy, 15 April 2012 - 18:37.


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#2252 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:35

You had to end your posit like that didn't you.



It is a reality that he has a teammate in identical equipment who is looking very racey.

One other thing is that Hamilton has actually helped Button in two races out of three this season by taking points away from the other top drivers in the championship whereas Button yet to return the favour. This is a problem with the c&c style of racing, you can actually be helping your teammate win the wdc.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 15 April 2012 - 20:12.


#2253 BillBald

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:41

I guess running 2 seconds behind Ricciardo is being held up by him and i dont see 1 clear lap where Jenson wa quicker

Jenson spent 5 laps less than a second behind Ricciardo, but towards the end of the stint he fell back. I don't think Jenson even had one totally clear lap, except at the end where his tyres seemed to have had enough.

Was that because he knew that Lewis would come out in traffic though?


Yes, I think so. :)




#2254 fieraku

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:46

It is a reality that he has a teammate in identical equipment who is looking very racey.

One other thing is that Hamilton has actually helped Button in two races out of three this season by taking points away from the other top drivers in the campionship whereas Button yet to return the favour. This is a problem with the c&c style of racing, you can actually be helping your teammate win the wdc.

It's called team work,and there's plenty of time for JB, be patient.

#2255 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:50

Timing
Which laps are you talking about?

Don't be ridiculous. How the heck does a driver know where they're going to feed back in? Let alone where their team-mate will end up after a stop.


JB said that although he was surprised when lewis pitted and that he made the call late. He knew the team hadn't called him into pit that lap for the specific reason that it would have dropped him into traffic, implying that he knew Lewis would have to battle through traffic.

Edited by Kvothe, 15 April 2012 - 18:51.


#2256 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:58

JB said that although he was surprised when lewis pitted and that he made the call late. He knew the team hadn't called him into pit that lap for the specific reason that it would have dropped him into traffic, implying that he knew Lewis would have to battle through traffic.

Is there a quote?

#2257 jrg19

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:01

Is there a quote?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17719949

#2258 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:05

JB said that although he was surprised when lewis pitted and that he made the call late. He knew the team hadn't called him into pit that lap for the specific reason that it would have dropped him into traffic, implying that he knew Lewis would have to battle through traffic.


It's definitely interesting, maybe the second car can now pit if first car doesn't, that certainly didn't seem to be the case in oz,

Would have been fun on here if it was vice-versa...

#2259 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:05

He did indeed, but you have to admit he was less aggressive than JB and that's something that has changed since 2010. In the past, Lewis starting behind Jenson was not a problem for Lewis because you kinda felt he would outhustle Jenson, all other things being equal. It now seems Lewis is playing catch-up; trying to stay with Jenson instead of looking to pass and pull away.


I don't buy that and as pointed out many of Lewis' overtakes were outside of the DRS zones under breaking, and then you had his attempt on MW starting into turn 1, and finishing out of Turn 9 (When Mark went wide)

Yes it is a matter of Lewis playing catch up, but of the past three races this had been down to :

Poor launch controls in Oz
A terrible pit stop putting JB ahead in Malaysia
And a grid penalty putting him behind JB.

All nullifying Lewis qualifying advantage

JB's consistently fast race pace is one of his biggest assets and is nearly identical to Lewis' in most races, in those circumstances its no surprise that Lewis is unable to close the gap, and is unable attempt to pass we saw this in 2010 and a few times in 2011 when they were running together. It's also why imo had these not happened then JB would have found it very hard to pass Lewis and its almost probably Lewis would have kept position. In Bahrain which requires good straight line speed and traction I expect Mercedes to be strong again, and hopefully Lewis will be able to utilise his qualifying advantage more effectively especially if the grid is so tight again.


You have to understand that some of us LH fans are going to find it hard to come to terms with JB's exceptional driving, there really is nothing between those guys. Lewis now needs every single advantage that he can get just to be in front of JB and really, all that is left is two tenths in qualy.


Are we?

Edited by Kvothe, 15 April 2012 - 19:08.


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#2260 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:07

Is there a quote?


http://www.bbc.co.uk...Forum/?t=15m59s

#2261 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:14

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17719949

He doesn't say he knew. He said 'The team wouldn't have called me in that lap for a certain reason - because I would have fallen into traffic. Lewis fell into traffic and you take that risk...'
His engineer knows. How does he, unless he's either
a) just asked his engineer what would happen to LH if he pitted that lap, or
b) has an internet connection and is looking at the live timing and playing with a calculator in the cockpit?

That would take situational awareness to a whole new level.

#2262 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:17

It's definitely interesting, maybe the second car can now pit if first car doesn't, that certainly didn't seem to be the case in oz,

Would have been fun on here if it was vice-versa...


Definitely, although McLaren certainly don't make it easy to figure out how they decide the pit stop strategy. It seems to be changing almost on a race by race basis (which is probably for the best) (for example, did Lewis qualifying ahead of JB have any impact? ect)

If the second car can now choose when to pit that would be a very welcome development, particularly because it recognises the differing styles of both and the need for different strategies, of course in the heat of the moment, I reserve the right to change my opinion should it negatively affect Lewis :)

#2263 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:20

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17719949

5 minutes in Button says that they both start with target laps to pit but there's nothing to stop the second driver changing that lap.
So cue a whole lot of retractions from the people who claimed Button staying out in Australia compromised Hamilton's race because he wasn't allowed to pit the lap before him.

I won't hold my breath.

#2264 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:22

Definitely, although McLaren certainly don't make it easy to figure out how they decide the pit stop strategy. It seems to be changing almost on a race by race basis (which is probably for the best) (for example, did Lewis qualifying ahead of JB have any impact? ect)

If the second car can now choose when to pit that would be a very welcome development, particularly because it recognises the differing styles of both and the need for different strategies, of course in the heat of the moment, I reserve the right to change my opinion should it negatively affect Lewis :)


:lol:

You and me both! Quali advantage is greatere if you control the guy behind you's stop too!

#2265 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:22

He doesn't say he knew. He said 'The team wouldn't have called me in that lap for a certain reason - because I would have fallen into traffic. Lewis fell into traffic and you take that risk...'
His engineer knows. How does he, unless he's either

a) just asked his engineer what would happen to LH if he pitted that lap, or
b) has an internet connection and is looking at the live timing and playing with a calculator in the cockpit?

That would take situational awareness to a whole new level.


Doesn't his phrase

'The team wouldn't have called me in that lap for a certain reason - because I would have fallen into traffic.


explain how he knew?

#2266 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:24

5 minutes in Button says that they both start with target laps to pit but there's nothing to stop the second driver changing that lap.
So cue a whole lot of retractions from the people who claimed Button staying out in Australia compromised Hamilton's race because he wasn't allowed to pit the lap before him.

I won't hold my breath.


That's very interesting...and actually means instead of backing what I thought macca's 'agreement' was I can now blame them for ****ing up Lewis's strategy in oz :D

#2267 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:24

Doesn't his phrase

explain how he knew?

Hindsight?

Maybe you've come across the term in the last couple of seasons?

#2268 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:24

That's very interesting...and actually means instead of backing what I thought macca's 'agreement' was I can now blame them for ****ing up Lewis's strategy in oz :D

Yeah. And I can blame Lewis instead of team orders. :D

#2269 engel

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:25

Doesn't his phrase

explain how he knew?


he didn't know at the time, it's physically impossible for the driver to track where he will come out if he pits.

#2270 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:32

Yeah. And I can blame Lewis instead of team orders. :D


:lol:

I'm not sure how good Lewis is (or other drivers are) at knowing what effect the tyre degradation is having on their times to be honest.

The other considerations for the engineers are traffic, as this race showed, and the knock on effect for later stints. I remember posting last year that preventing losing significant time in the first stint, when fuel is heaviest, at the expense of a lap or two later has to be worth it, there were a couple of races where it was really frustrating, but perhaps they know better than me! Or perhaps they're just bloody conservative.

Anyway, I'm still of the opinion that they would not want the second car to get the undercut advantage, traffic was the additional factor here so getting the gap would be a higher priority/ greater advantage, I will be very interested to see if undercut results in a change of places or racing out of the pits in the future, I'm not convinced that wasn't the reason in oz.

#2271 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:37

:lol:

I'm not sure how good Lewis is (or other drivers are) at knowing what effect the tyre degradation is having on their times to be honest.

The other considerations for the engineers are traffic, as this race showed, and the knock on effect for later stints. I remember posting last year that preventing losing significant time in the first stint, when fuel is heaviest, at the expense of a lap or two later has to be worth it, there were a couple of races where it was really frustrating, but perhaps they know better than me! Or perhaps they're just bloody conservative.

Anyway, I'm still of the opinion that they would not want the second car to get the undercut advantage, traffic was the additional factor here so getting the gap would be a higher priority/ greater advantage, I will be very interested to see if undercut results in a change of places or racing out of the pits in the future, I'm not convinced that wasn't the reason in oz.

I'm not sure either. Maybe more than we'd think, though - I'm regularly amazed by the ability they have to drive laps that are consistent to a tenth, they may well see the change in laptime before their engineers.
Anyway it's interesting in that it's the most concrete information I can think of that we've had on the way they work. You'd think JB would be a pretty good source.
I'm not sure who would benefit more if that is the rule, though. LH might benefit to a greater extent in a given race if he tends to pit earlier, but then again he's likely to find himself behind less often in the first stints.

#2272 bonjon1979a

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:47

I'm not sure either. Maybe more than we'd think, though - I'm regularly amazed by the ability they have to drive laps that are consistent to a tenth, they may well see the change in laptime before their engineers.
Anyway it's interesting in that it's the most concrete information I can think of that we've had on the way they work. You'd think JB would be a pretty good source.
I'm not sure who would benefit more if that is the rule, though. LH might benefit to a greater extent in a given race if he tends to pit earlier, but then again he's likely to find himself behind less often in the first stints.


I don't think there is a rule on who gets to pit first, this is was a bit of no brainer:

Hamilton had done an extra 3 laps on his set as he used them in Q2 and he was the one who was about to lose position to webber, as it was he came out of the pits and was side by side with the red bull. In the context of the race they had to pit hamilton as webber forced their hand.

#2273 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:48

Hindsight?

Maybe you've come across the term in the last couple of seasons?



he didn't know at the time, it's physically impossible for the driver to track where he will come out if he pits.


My previous post was to be read as one full question.

His words suggest to me that he inferred from the fact he wasn't called in, that to pit would have meant he would have been in traffic hence why he was surprised at the time but ok with Lewis being called in first because he knew he would face that traffic.

I suppose I'm Looking at the situation as him being surprised but ok with it during the race, and not post race.



#2274 mstar

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:49

Its worrying me that JB just like Australia over a stint he had the pace over Lewis. JB had 2.2 lead over hammy both in clear air and lewis went hard and got it down to 1.8 (i think) and then JB pulled it to 2.5 seconds BEFORE hammy pitted it showed me that JB was thinking of the whole stint making the tyres last where lewis just went hard and then had to pit early as his front tyre degraded.

as much as i say it JB in race day is immense

Edited by mstar, 15 April 2012 - 19:51.


#2275 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:50

I don't buy that and as pointed out many of Lewis' overtakes were outside of the DRS zones under breaking, and then you had his attempt on MW starting into turn 1, and finishing out of Turn 9 (When Mark went wide)

Yes it is a matter of Lewis playing catch up, but of the past three races this had been down to :

Poor launch controls in Oz
A terrible pit stop putting JB ahead in Malaysia
And a grid penalty putting him behind JB.

All nullifying Lewis qualifying advantage

JB's consistently fast race pace is one of his biggest assets and is nearly identical to Lewis' in most races, in those circumstances its no surprise that Lewis is unable to close the gap, and is unable attempt to pass we saw this in 2010 and a few times in 2011 when they were running together. It's also why imo had these not happened then JB would have found it very hard to pass Lewis and its almost probably Lewis would have kept position. In Bahrain which requires good straight line speed and traction I expect Mercedes to be strong again, and hopefully Lewis will be able to utilise his qualifying advantage more effectively especially if the grid is so tight again.




Are we?

I did say some fans not all fans. As great a drive as Lewis drove, it seemed like damage limitation to me. He needed to be pushing Jenson all the way so that he should have profitted from Jenson's pitstop mishap, but he did not. So for the next race I'd like to see him iron out 7th gear and ensuring proper tow down the main straight in Bahrain for passes, this was an issue in Spa '11 and now here. Please sort it Lewis (Sends this tweet to @LewisHamilton).


#2276 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:51

I don't think there is a rule on who gets to pit first, this is was a bit of no brainer:

Hamilton had done an extra 3 laps on his set as he used them in Q2 and he was the one who was about to lose position to webber, as it was he came out of the pits and was side by side with the red bull. In the context of the race they had to pit hamilton as webber forced their hand.


For an outlap...

The webber point is well made.

Edited by robefc, 15 April 2012 - 19:52.


#2277 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:53

My previous post was to be read as one full question.

His words suggest to me that he inferred from the fact he wasn't called in, that to pit would have meant he would have been in traffic hence why he was surprised at the time but ok with Lewis being called in first because he knew he would face that traffic.

I suppose I'm Looking at the situation as him being surprised but ok with it during the race, and not post race.

Well if the policy is as he said then there's no reason not to be okay with it. Especially as he stayed ahead. We don't have enough information about his thought processes at the time, do we?
It's pretty obvious that he wouldn't know just where Hamilton would feed back in though. Isn't it?

Edited by trogggy, 15 April 2012 - 19:54.


#2278 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 19:56

I'm a hardcore Hamilton fan and I can't see past Button, he seems to have a 1-2 tenth advantage over Lewis in races because Hamilton is trying to conserve his tyres, but still falls short most of the time, Bahrain will be interesting because its going to be dry and very warm, and safety cars aren't very prevalent so as long as there is no penalties we might finally see a true battle, hopefully.

#2279 Kvothe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:00

I did say some fans not all fans. As great a drive as Lewis drove, it seemed like damage limitation to me. He needed to be pushing Jenson all the way so that he should have profitted from Jenson's pitstop mishap, but he did not. So for the next race I'd like to see him iron out 7th gear and ensuring proper tow down the main straight in Bahrain for passes, this was an issue in Spa '11 and now here. Please sort it Lewis (Sends this tweet to @LewisHamilton).


Its ironic that you apologised on behalf of some Lewis fans who

find it hard to come to terms with JB's exceptional driving,

yet you assume he wasn't pushing Jenson all the way, and in other posts said his driving was sluggish, which doesn't give any credit to how well JB was driving. Lewis said in the post BBC interview that he thought he got as much out of the car as he could, which also doesn't fit well with your perception of his race.

You also appear to have wrongly equated damage limitation with cruising and collecting.

Also it was Spain and Monza 11 where this this was an problem, I can't recall it being an issue at Spa.



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#2280 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:03

Well if the policy is as he said then there's no reason not to be okay with it. Especially as he stayed ahead. We don't have enough information about his thought processes at the time, do we?
It's pretty obvious that he wouldn't know just where Hamilton would feed back in though. Isn't it?


This is simple, having heard what Jenson said, it does suggest that the lead driver gets first refusal on who should pit first at the pitstop windows. So Lewis' engineer would have had to tell Jenson's engineer of their desire to pit, and since Jenson's engineer decided not to pit Jenson, Jenson automatically knew there was no advantage to be gained pitting first at that stage. The reason for his thinking with hindsight was falling into traffic which befell Lewis.

So Jenson is confident that on the strategy side, his side of the garage will outthink Lewis', this is why he looks so confident that he will prevail ultimately. Very interesting indeed!!

#2281 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:07

This is simple, having heard what Jenson said, it does suggest that the lead driver gets first refusal on who should pit first at the pitstop windows. So Lewis' engineer would have had to tell Jenson's engineer of their desire to pit, and since Jenson's engineer decided not to pit Jenson, Jenson automatically knew there was no advantage to be gained pitting first at that stage. The reason for his thinking with hindsight was falling into traffic which befell Lewis.

So Jenson is confident that on the strategy side, his side of the garage will outthink Lewis', this is why he looks so confident that he will prevail ultimately. Very interesting indeed!!

What does he say that suggests that?
I listened to the whole interview and I didn't get that impression - especially as he said he thought Lewis must have made a late call after JB had gone past the pits (something along those lines anyway). I might have missed something though.

#2282 engel

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:13

I just think it's another molehill being turned into a mountain. JB may assume he wasn't called in due to traffic, or whatever. Reality ... IMO McLaren's hand was forced by Webber. They called in Lewis cause he could just barely clear Webber (on primes - ie Lewis might end getting stuck behind him for a loooooooooong time) Button had a gap to Webber and could stay out another lap.

But then again simple explanations don't really work here so ...

#2283 tkulla

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:19

I think it's pretty simple. The second (on the track) driver can pit before the lead driver as long as it doesn't compromise his teammate. For instance, you wouldn't want the second driver pitting early just to get the undercut and track position on his teammate, who would be forced to pit the very new lap to stay ahead even if it means he's compromising his race strategy. Such scenarios would result in a less than optimal team effort, so the team prevents it from happening.

If there is enough of a gap between the two or there is traffic that prevents the early pit stop from being too much of an advantage there's no reason not to allow it.

In practice, it probably means the lead driver (actually both drivers since it's impossible to know who will actually be ahead after the first lap) declares his strategy and the other driver isn't allowed to compromise it.

Okay, that didn't seem as simple as I'd hoped.  ;)

#2284 Grundle

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:19

The pirelli tyres dont cope with small steering adjustments as well as the bs did. It leads to higher wear, compared to a button or Vettel style who are very precise in their steering inputs, putting less stress through the tyres.
lewis needs to drive in a more relaxed style, and just let the car 'flow' (like how he described his nurb11 quali lap)
I am quite positive for bahrain as it is quite point and squirt, simple for steering

#2285 fieraku

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:20

Its worrying me that JB just like Australia over a stint he had the pace over Lewis. JB had 2.2 lead over hammy both in clear air and lewis went hard and got it down to 1.8 (i think) and then JB pulled it to 2.5 seconds BEFORE hammy pitted it showed me that JB was thinking of the whole stint making the tyres last where lewis just went hard and then had to pit early as his front tyre degraded.

as much as i say it JB in race day is immense


After the 1st pitstops Ham came behind a Toro Rosso and a Caterham which cost him those 2seconds,Jb came ahead of them,then the gap stayed about same til next round,I didn't see race pace advantage from JB.

JB wasn't making tires last they were all as in everyone on a 3stopper were pushing,and had similar pace until each hit traffic/2stoppers,then the gaps were decided by whomever made their passes quicker.

2nd round Ham came out behind Massa&DiResta,JB came out ahead then JB's gap opened even more with each having more cars to pass.

It was a weird race.Track position out of pits meant everything.

Edited by fieraku, 15 April 2012 - 20:30.


#2286 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:35

What does he say that suggests that?
I listened to the whole interview and I didn't get that impression - especially as he said he thought Lewis must have made a late call after JB had gone past the pits (something along those lines anyway). I might have missed something though.


Jenson says "The team wouldn't have called me in on that lap for a certain reason". This suggest first refusal to me, that's why he was surprised but hindsight made him understand why it was done that way.

#2287 gricey1981

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:37

I just think it's another molehill being turned into a mountain. JB may assume he wasn't called in due to traffic, or whatever. Reality ... IMO McLaren's hand was forced by Webber. They called in Lewis cause he could just barely clear Webber (on primes - ie Lewis might end getting stuck behind him for a loooooooooong time) Button had a gap to Webber and could stay out another lap.

But then again simple explanations don't really work here so ...


+1 Hamilton had to cover Webber.

which they did..... just brought him out in traffic. Thats all.



#2288 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:40

I just think it's another molehill being turned into a mountain. JB may assume he wasn't called in due to traffic, or whatever. Reality ... IMO McLaren's hand was forced by Webber. They called in Lewis cause he could just barely clear Webber (on primes - ie Lewis might end getting stuck behind him for a loooooooooong time) Button had a gap to Webber and could stay out another lap.

But then again simple explanations don't really work here so ...


Depends whether Lewis was lapping faster than the traffic he was being dropped into. If Webber was going to hit the slower traffic than Lewis was lapping, then there was no reason for Macca to worry about Webber since the traffic would hold him up and Lewis can continue lapping faster in relative free air until he has enough of a gap to pit and come out just ahead.

I haven't checked lap times to confirm either way, maybe someone else knows??

#2289 engel

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:48

Depends whether Lewis was lapping faster than the traffic he was being dropped into. If Webber was going to hit the slower traffic than Lewis was lapping, then there was no reason for Macca to worry about Webber since the traffic would hold him up and Lewis can continue lapping faster in relative free air until he has enough of a gap to pit and come out just ahead.

I haven't checked lap times to confirm either way, maybe someone else knows??


you generally operate under the assumption that fast car + fresh rubber > slow cars + old rubber.

At the time, on fresh rubber, Webber was a full second a lap faster than Hamilton and a full 2 seconds a lap faster than Ricciardo and Kova.

Obviously if you are willing to bet a race on Ricciardo and Kovaleinen holding a 2 seconds a lap faster Webber up then ...

Edited by engel, 15 April 2012 - 20:49.


#2290 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:49

Jenson says "The team wouldn't have called me in on that lap for a certain reason". This suggest first refusal to me, that's why he was surprised but hindsight made him understand why it was done that way.

First refusal in that he could have pitted if he wanted to sounds likely.
First refusal in that LH's team has to clear it with his team first? Less so, given what he said.

Anyway covering Webber is the obvious explanation.

#2291 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:52

Depends whether Lewis was lapping faster than the traffic he was being dropped into. If Webber was going to hit the slower traffic than Lewis was lapping, then there was no reason for Macca to worry about Webber since the traffic would hold him up and Lewis can continue lapping faster in relative free air until he has enough of a gap to pit and come out just ahead.

I haven't checked lap times to confirm either way, maybe someone else knows??


They can't predict how long it would take webber to pass cars, they had ot respond to his pace, not that of other cars.

Good article on F1 Fanatic about webber triggering macca's stops, mark overtook 2 cars in one lap and still managed a time 1/10th off rosberg so there's your answer.

Edited by robefc, 15 April 2012 - 21:09.


#2292 robefc

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:54

I think it's pretty simple. The second (on the track) driver can pit before the lead driver as long as it doesn't compromise his teammate. For instance, you wouldn't want the second driver pitting early just to get the undercut and track position on his teammate, who would be forced to pit the very new lap to stay ahead even if it means he's compromising his race strategy. Such scenarios would result in a less than optimal team effort, so the team prevents it from happening.

If there is enough of a gap between the two or there is traffic that prevents the early pit stop from being too much of an advantage there's no reason not to allow it.

In practice, it probably means the lead driver (actually both drivers since it's impossible to know who will actually be ahead after the first lap) declares his strategy and the other driver isn't allowed to compromise it.

Okay, that didn't seem as simple as I'd hoped. ;)


Makes sense to me and basically what I was trying to say earlier (but I was less cognise/eloquent!). The principle is simple, the practical application somewhat less so!

#2293 80mf

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:07

I think people are missing a big point on Lewis v Jenson in race pace.. The tyres are the limiting factor, you can only go a certain pace or they get worn out degredate fall apart. lewis manages his pace in the race, especially with full fuel.. therefore they run at a similar pace.. the car doesnt change from qual to race except a full tank of fuel. And Lewis has been this season 1/2 tenth quicker in qual, noone will disagree with that.. Its all about tyre management in the race, lewis could go flat out and be the quickest car on track by a mile but he would have to pit after 8 laps, same goes for jenson... All im saying is the race pace is not telling us the truth about everything at the min and a few hot races to come will shake it up even more.. Great season so far and temps and weather has played a part in results but Lewis looks favorite at the min with jenson on his coat tails...

With regards to pitstops people were saying Mclarens policy was leader in championship got first call on pitstops.. thats the way it seemed to go today wasnt it...?

#2294 as65p

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:10

Er no. Its obvious he has had bad luck in all three races. I understand you don't like Lewis, that's fine, but lets be reasonable here.


It's obvious only if one focuses 100 percent on and expects 100 percent perfection in all matters surrounding Hamilton and ignores the dozens of similar little mishaps that happen to every driver up and down the grid. That would be reasonable.

#2295 as65p

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:14

Yeah like every driver on the grid has experienced, its just Lewis is doing the best job of it atm.


Obviously he leads the WDC, so yeah. It clearly reflects in his fans being happy and celebrating. Oh, wait.... :drunk:

#2296 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:19

They can't predict how long it would take webber to pass cars, they had ot respond to his pace, not that of other cars.

Good article on F1 Fanatic about webber triggering macca's stops, mark overtook 2 cars in one lap and still managed a time 1/10th off rosberg so there's your answer.

A four/five-car train with 3 or 4 of them using DRS down the straights would not be cleared that easily irrespective of the state of tyres. Vettel, Webber, Hamilton and Jenson all took multiple laps getting past those trains. So if Webber was going to hit that traffic and Lewis is lapping faster than the traffic, they can afford to wait. On the other hand, maybe they did not want LH's tyres to suddenly fall off the cliff as has happened in the past, so they try to cover for that.

Damned either way it seemed.

#2297 P123

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:21

Obviously he leads the WDC, so yeah. It clearly reflects in his fans being happy and celebrating. Oh, wait.... :drunk:


But I'm happy, see... :D

#2298 Anomnader

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:23

It's obvious only if one focuses 100 percent on and expects 100 percent perfection in all matters surrounding Hamilton and ignores the dozens of similar little mishaps that happen to every driver up and down the grid. That would be reasonable.


I hate to break it to you, this is a Lewis thread and so it will be mentioned, go in the MS or the Kimi thread and they're will be discussion off bad luck in there, theres no ignoring others mishaps, its just not the place to discuss them as you know

:lol: :yawnface: :cat: :wave:

#2299 as65p

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:24

But I'm happy, see... :D


I believe you. :)

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#2300 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:24

It's obvious only if one focuses 100 percent on and expects 100 percent perfection in all matters surrounding Hamilton and ignores the dozens of similar little mishaps that happen to every driver up and down the grid. That would be reasonable.

'Every other driver up and down the grid.'. And there I was thinking this was the Jenson vs Lewis thread.