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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#2301 P123

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:24

It's obvious only if one focuses 100 percent on and expects 100 percent perfection in all matters surrounding Hamilton and ignores the dozens of similar little mishaps that happen to every driver up and down the grid. That would be reasonable.


That's the problem with all the what if arguements and bad luck stories...... they always take into account one driver and ignore the rest of the field.

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#2302 Anomnader

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:27

That's the problem with all the what if arguements and bad luck stories...... they always take into account one driver and ignore the rest of the field.


yeah, in the Kimi and Shuey thread I'm sure they're also saying, that Lewis also had bad luck

#2303 P123

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:30

yeah, in the Kimi and Shuey thread I'm sure they're also saying, that Lewis also had bad luck


I was generalising about the forum; I didn't say it was specific to LH fans.

#2304 as65p

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:32

I hate to break it to you, this is a Lewis thread and so it will be mentioned, go in the MS or the Kimi thread and they're will be discussion off bad luck in there, theres no ignoring others mishaps, its just not the place to discuss them as you know

:lol: :yawnface: :cat: :wave:


Nice signature. :up:

Anyway, limiting the discussion in a certain thread to a certain drivers problems doesn't necessarily equal tunnel vision regarding a championship with 23 other drivers. Well, at least it shouldn't.

What "happened" to LH so far this season is by all accounts normality at the least, far far away from deserving to be called "bad luck", let alone deserving of the most funny conspiracy theories since "we weren't really on the moon".

Edited by as65p, 15 April 2012 - 21:33.


#2305 Anomnader

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:34

Nice signature. :up:

Anyway, limiting the discussion in a certain thread to a certain drivers problems doesn't necessarily equal tunnel vision regarding a championship with 23 other drivers. Well, at least it shouldn't.

What "happened" to LH so far this season is by all accounts normality at the least, far far away from deserving to be called "bad luck", let alone deserving of the most funny conspiracie thories since "we weren't really on the moon".


So what is classed as bad luck in your book? clearly a gearbox change isn't neither is have his start procedure altered that didnt work.

#2306 engel

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:34

A four/five-car train with 3 or 4 of them using DRS down the straights would not be cleared that easily irrespective of the state of tyres. Vettel, Webber, Hamilton and Jenson all took multiple laps getting past those trains. So if Webber was going to hit that traffic and Lewis is lapping faster than the traffic, they can afford to wait. On the other hand, maybe they did not want LH's tyres to suddenly fall off the cliff as has happened in the past, so they try to cover for that.

Damned either way it seemed.


there was no 4/5 car train, like I said, and like you conveniently ignored, the "traffic" was Ricciardo and Kovaleinen, which Lewis (and Webber) cleared within a lap inspite of the fact Lewis came out of the pits just ahead of Webber (and Webber had to go off-line and had to hold back Raikkonen who also came out of the pits).

#2307 OO7

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:37

I was generalising about the forum; I didn't say it was specific to LH fans.

I really don't even understand why there is an discussion/argument about this to be frank. This is the Jenson vs Lewis thread, people post that Lewis has had some bad luck, people post that Jenson has had some bad luck. When discussing these two team-mates why even bring up other drivers its not necessary. In a previous post I mentioned how MSc has been very unlucky by comparison to Lewis.

#2308 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:41

there was no 4/5 car train, like I said, and like you conveniently ignored, the "traffic" was Ricciardo and Kovaleinen, which Lewis (and Webber) cleared within a lap inspite of the fact Lewis came out of the pits just ahead of Webber (and Webber had to go off-line and had to hold back Raikkonen who also came out of the pits).


Really? I'd have to check that when I get a chance, I thought there were more than two cars for Lewis to clear after the first pitstop, hmm.

#2309 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:51

I think people are missing a big point on Lewis v Jenson in race pace.. The tyres are the limiting factor, you can only go a certain pace or they get worn out degredate fall apart. lewis manages his pace in the race, especially with full fuel.. therefore they run at a similar pace.. the car doesnt change from qual to race except a full tank of fuel. And Lewis has been this season 1/2 tenth quicker in qual, noone will disagree with that.. Its all about tyre management in the race, lewis could go flat out and be the quickest car on track by a mile but he would have to pit after 8 laps, same goes for jenson... All im saying is the race pace is not telling us the truth about everything at the min and a few hot races to come will shake it up even more.. Great season so far and temps and weather has played a part in results but Lewis looks favorite at the min with jenson on his coat tails...

Can you explain why Lewis was unable to match Jenson's race pace in Australia in a way that doesn't contradict the above?

Edit: Or any time LH was faster than JB over a stint on Pirellis? Same thing.

With regards to pitstops people were saying Mclarens policy was leader in championship got first call on pitstops.. thats the way it seemed to go today wasnt it...?

No.

Edited by trogggy, 15 April 2012 - 21:56.


#2310 OO7

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:51

What "happened" to LH so far this season is by all accounts normality at the least, far far away from deserving to be called "bad luck", let alone deserving of the most funny conspiracy theories since "we weren't really on the moon".

as65p, to me it really does seem that your looking to argue for arguments sake. Are we now talking semantics? A five place grid penalty due to a gearbox problem isn't quite bad luck?, perhaps its more of a................hmmmmmm, lets call it an interesting challenge for the race ahead. My goodness, I would call it bad luck for any driver who suffered the same. Any driver who was delayed in the pits for an extended period of time due to no fault of their own I would say was unlucky. But I guess these are all minor issues, in the grand scheme of things, one can only be described as unlucky if struck down by a hypersonic meteorite from outer space or perhaps being struck by lighting 3 times in one day, each in a different part of the country. Come on are we really going to argue or discuss this?

Edited by Obi Offiah, 15 April 2012 - 22:05.


#2311 ayanate

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 22:02

as65p, to me it really does seem that your looking to argue for arguments sake. Are we now talking semantics? A five place grid penalty due to a gearbox problem isn't quite bad luck?, perhaps it more of a................hmmmmmm, lets call it an interesting challenge for the race ahead. My goodness, I would call it bad luck for any driver who suffered the same. Any driver who was delayed in the pits for an extended period of time due to no fault of their own I would say was unlucky. But I guess these are all minor issues, in the grand scheme of things, one can only be described as unlucky if struck down by a hypersonic meteorite from outer space or perhaps being struck by lighting 3 times in one day, each in a different part of the country. Come on are we really going to argue or discuss this?


Well put, what we would like to know is when we are going to see Hamilton on a charge this season. We have seen Jenson on a charge in all three races, even if Malaysia was a charge into Narain, lol.
Seriously though, can Lewis actually catch Jenson in a straight fight in the dry? It appears to me that Jenson behind Lewis will be a better fight than vice versa; judging by the first three races.

#2312 Watkins74

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 22:03

That's the problem with all the what if arguements and bad luck stories...... they always take into account one driver and ignore the rest of the field.

:up:

#2313 ForzaGTR

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 22:15

He did indeed, but you have to admit he was less aggressive than JB and that's something that has changed since 2010. In the past, Lewis starting behind Jenson was not a problem for Lewis because you kinda felt he would outhustle Jenson, all other things being equal. It now seems Lewis is playing catch-up; trying to stay with Jenson instead of looking to pass and pull away.


Well Lewis leads the WDC despite a 5 place grid drop and some horrible pit stops in the first two races, so he's doing something right...

I agree there has been a change in his mentality but that could be a good thing! Today showed he can be aggressive and calculating.

#2314 fieraku

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 22:19

Really? I'd have to check that when I get a chance, I thought there were more than two cars for Lewis to clear after the first pitstop, hmm.


He had to clear only two more cars than JB had to,Kova and one of the Toro Rossos,when JB came out Ham had just HK ahead,passed him and was only two seconds behind JB,it was the second stint where he also had the Massa/PDR to pass whereas JB didn't,thus you might think it was more. It was, but over two stints.

#2315 Slartibartfast

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:03

I hate to break it to you, this is a Lewis thread and so it will be mentioned, go in the MS or the Kimi thread and they're will be discussion off bad luck in there, theres no ignoring others mishaps, its just not the place to discuss them as you know

:lol: :yawnface: :cat: :wave:

So that's why Jenson's bad luck is never mentioned... it's not his thread!

#2316 as65p

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:15

as65p, to me it really does seem that your looking to argue for arguments sake. Are we now talking semantics? A five place grid penalty due to a gearbox problem isn't quite bad luck?, perhaps its more of a................hmmmmmm, lets call it an interesting challenge for the race ahead. My goodness, I would call it bad luck for any driver who suffered the same. Any driver who was delayed in the pits for an extended period of time due to no fault of their own I would say was unlucky. But I guess these are all minor issues, in the grand scheme of things, one can only be described as unlucky if struck down by a hypersonic meteorite from outer space or perhaps being struck by lighting 3 times in one day, each in a different part of the country. Come on are we really going to argue or discuss this?


Well, nobody forces us, so probably not.

Maybe it's just me, I don't see the sense in overblowing minor issues that happen all the time in racing to everyone.

#2317 OO7

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:35

Maybe it's just me, I don't see the sense in overblowing minor issues that happen all the time in racing to everyone.

I don't believe mentioning problems that have negatively impacted a driver as over-blowing the issues and that is not really what you said in your original post. Don't get me wrong I'm sure if I go back and reread many of the posts here, there will be some posters stating that x or y problem cost Lewis the race, something we will never know.
If I was to do a search regarding your use of the term 'bad luck', I wouldn't be surprised if you've used it in the same manner to describe a similar event, in a way that as you originally put it 'ignores the dozens of similar little mishaps that happen to every driver up and down the grid.'

#2318 PretentiousBread

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:46

Yup, same corner as today - I did question if he'd identified that as an area of high tyre wear at the time because when you saw him following Button he'd always come off the corner so much slower but looking at his tyre wear today I'd say it's less likely.


I think thats why he had better pace than JB last year at Shanghai - JB was working his rears harder through turn 13 than Hamilton was. Might have been a similar story today, just that the Pirelli rear tyres are stronger this year and tyre deg wasn't quite as high I believe - JB set his fastest lap on the very last lap.

#2319 fieraku

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:48

Well, nobody forces us, so probably not.

Maybe it's just me, I don't see the sense in overblowing minor issues that happen all the time in racing to everyone.

:lol:
Sure you don't

No, the way people are talking is as if he overshot by about 30cm. The way you are talking is as if 30 cm in the real worls translates to only 22 Hamilton-cm.


Three pages of overshooting a pitbox,but then that's a major issue for some and it rarely happens.

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#2320 engel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 00:12

:lol:
Sure you don't



Three pages of overshooting a pitbox,but then that's a major issue for some and it rarely happens.


you do realize McLaren had to redesign their pitbox in China PRECISELY because of that 30cm overshoot though right? :)

#2321 hammibal

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 00:32

Timing
Which laps are you talking about?

Don't be ridiculous. How the heck does a driver know where they're going to feed back in? Let alone where their team-mate will end up after a stop.

Postings show that Jenson knew this, Jenson pitted just 2 laps after Lewis and he would have been discussing with his engineer the best time to pit without hitting traffic and would have known Lewis was going to hit traffic

Jenson spent 5 laps less than a second behind Ricciardo, but towards the end of the stint he fell back. I don't think Jenson even had one totally clear lap, except at the end where his tyres seemed to have had enough.



Yes, I think so. :)

So basically your saying that Jenson was held up for 5 laps before his tyres cried enough and he fell back from Ricciardo, Ricciardo actually posted 3 laps that were faster than Jenson's fastest lap, thats a strange thing to happen when you're being held up.



#2322 OO7

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 00:33

:lol:
Sure you don't



Three pages of overshooting a pitbox,but then that's a major issue for some and it rarely happens.

I hadn't read that post fieraku, it does help bring some perspective to this whole issue.

Thanks

#2323 Dunder

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 00:42

Really? I'd have to check that when I get a chance, I thought there were more than two cars for Lewis to clear after the first pitstop, hmm.


At the first round of stops it was indeed only Ricciardo and Kova.
The real traffic jam was at the second round of stops and given they were committed to three stops at that time there was no way to avoid it.


#2324 OO7

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 00:52

you do realize McLaren had to redesign their pitbox in China PRECISELY because of that 30cm overshoot though right? :)



We're venturing double off-topic here, but McLaren didn't have to redesign their pit-box, just like they didn't have to take measures (as far as I'm aware) to prevent their drivers from stopping in the pit-box of other teams. I haven't seen or read any evidence that Lewis is prone to overshooting his marks. Him doing so highlighted a weakness with the old box, including having to manoeuvre around the RBR pit-crew and they sought to improve it. According to Ted it could help shave a couple of tenths off the pit stops. In fact with the exception of Jenson's problem, McLaren's pit-stops in Shanghai were pretty slick. This year McLaren also introduced the light signal system for their pit-stops and not as pre-emptive cover for Lewis overshooting his marks, nope, simply to make the stops quicker and more efficient.

I have a feeling now your post was made tongue firmly in cheek?


#2325 BillBald

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:00

Postings show that Jenson knew this, Jenson pitted just 2 laps after Lewis and he would have been discussing with his engineer the best time to pit without hitting traffic and would have known Lewis was going to hit traffic


So basically your saying that Jenson was held up for 5 laps before his tyres cried enough and he fell back from Ricciardo, Ricciardo actually posted 3 laps that were faster than Jenson's fastest lap, thats a strange thing to happen when you're being held up.


Previously Jenson had been close behind Rosberg, and had overtaken him, so it wasn't just those 5 laps which did for the tyres.

We don't know what Jenson's pace would have been in clear air, that was my point.



#2326 MP422

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:40

Lewis had a less desirable strategy in China?


Yes, but don't spin it into a conspiracy. He was given it because thats the policy, JB was ahead so he got the preference. All fair play. I think they executed good pitstops for Hamilton. Good result for both drivers. One would have to believe if Lewis didn't have to change his gearbox he would have been given the preference in the race. The fact hamilton qualifies so well over button will be a benefit i think as shown by button's advantage of track position in china, LOL.

#2327 trogggy

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:03

Postings show that Jenson knew this, Jenson pitted just 2 laps after Lewis and he would have been discussing with his engineer the best time to pit without hitting traffic and would have known Lewis was going to hit traffic

No, they don't. Nothing posted so far shows anything of the kind.
The most likely scenario...

Webber pits.
Mclaren pit Lewis to coverWebber.
Mclaren pit Jenson to cover Lewis and Webber.

If there are radio transmissions along the lines you describe then please post them.



#2328 as65p

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:42

:lol:
Sure you don't



Three pages of overshooting a pitbox,but then that's a major issue for some and it rarely happens.


Well, thanks for the reminder! :up:

The major issue here was of course not the slight overshot, but the downright refusal of the usual suspects to acknowledge even the possibility that that might have contributed to a less than perfect pitstop. Surely it's pure coincidence that McLaren felt the need to fiddle with their pitbox placement just one race later? :D

The overshot is precisely the kind of small little mistakes that happen all the time, by all involved parties, yet in here it's always just everyones but Hamiltons little mistakes that are blown out of all proportion.

#2329 Dalton007

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:26

In quali Lewis has the edge.
In the race I think Jenson is just a tad quicker.

My conclusion: They are both equal in overall pace.

Can you imagine: Brazil. Both them on level points. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think the championship is going to fought between these two. :drunk: :drunk:

#2330 Kvothe

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:34

In quali Lewis has the edge.
In the race I think Jenson is just a tad quicker.

My conclusion: They are both equal in overall pace.

Can you imagine: Brazil. Both them on level points. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think the championship is going to fought between these two. :drunk: :drunk:


Jenson is easier on the tires, and there will be times when one is faster then the other on inherent pace but I can't see any basis for saying his race pace is faster overall even by a tad. Last year doesn't support that view, and in the races this year, we have Lewis who said he had the wrong front wing in Oz, a wet race in Malaysia where Lewis was faster, but Jenson struggled to get heat into his tires, and China where both were stuck in traffic. All in all far too inconclusive to reach any kind of judgement.

#2331 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:43

Jenson is easier on the tires, and there will be times when one is faster then the other on inherent pace but I can't see any basis for saying his race pace is faster overall even by a tad. Last year doesn't support that view, and in the races this year, we have Lewis who said he had the wrong front wing in Oz, a wet race in Malaysia where Lewis was faster, but Jenson struggled to get heat into his tires, and China where both were stuck in traffic. All in all far too inconclusive to reach any kind of judgement.


Would it be the same conclusion if we had reversed result with drivers switched their places?

Edited by sofarapartguy, 16 April 2012 - 09:44.


#2332 River

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:44

The pit box angle was changed as both McLaren drivers almost hit Red Bull mechanics on the way into there box. By changing the angle means this shouldn't hinder them going into the box. Maybe this doesn't suit some people's agenda's though!

Edited by River, 16 April 2012 - 09:47.


#2333 Kvothe

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:51

Would it be the same conclusion if we had reversed result with drivers switched their places?


I'm sorry, but could you clarify that please?

#2334 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:03

I'm sorry, but could you clarify that please?

If it was a completely reversed situation with Mac drivers, for example LH starting second in Oz and win it in the frist corner while JB from pole finished third behid Vettel, would you claim that LH has no race pace over JB?

Edited by sofarapartguy, 16 April 2012 - 10:04.


#2335 Kvothe

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:14

If it was a completely reversed situation with Mac drivers, for example LH starting second in Oz and win it in the frist corner while JB from pole finished third behid Vettel, would you claim that LH has no race pace over JB?


No I'd say one race would be too small a sample to make a general observation that one driver has faster race pace then the other.

I'd also point out that finishing positions aren't a reliable measure of race pace and the extenuating circumstances such as the poor launch controls and the safety car.

Thus I'd come to the same conclusion which is that the evidence is too inconclusive to form any kind of reasonable conclusion either way.

#2336 bauss

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:15

Jenson is easier on the tires, and there will be times when one is faster then the other on inherent pace but I can't see any basis for saying his race pace is faster overall even by a tad. Last year doesn't support that view, and in the races this year, we have Lewis who said he had the wrong front wing in Oz, a wet race in Malaysia where Lewis was faster, but Jenson struggled to get heat into his tires, and China where both were stuck in traffic. All in all far too inconclusive to reach any kind of judgement.


indeed... though I expect it to be very close race pace wise all season.

Because, one thing is certain, the race pace this season is more tire limited than ever. It is super reliant on car setup and right temps... Driving around setup issues and so on is harder than ever without destroying tires or taking them out of their narrow working range which should bring JB closer to LH or even advantage him as he is more experienced overall with dialing in a car just right for conditions.

3 races in and I reckon just about every team on the grid are still frantically trying to understand alot about the cars and how best to use these Pirellis in varying conditons. Things will eventually settle down, but there is little clear trend at the moment.

As for the last race, it was encouraging to see LH side of the garage try something diff. than just waiting for JB to pit while LH tires hit the cliff (when JB is ahead with first dibs on strategy). It may not have worked out great but at least shows his side of the garage are not that shackled or unimaginative whenever he is behind JB on track.

It shouldn't be too often though, LH is finding good consistency in qualy and sooner than later, it will start counting towards been ahead at the first corner.






#2337 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:24

No I'd say one race would be too small a sample to make a general observation that one driver has faster race pace then the other.

I'd also point out that finishing positions aren't a reliable measure of race pace and the extenuating circumstances such as the poor launch controls and the safety car.

Thus I'd come to the same conclusion which is that the evidence is too inconclusive to form any kind of reasonable conclusion either way.


Ok, thank you. I'll mark this post, if you don't mind. For future discussions)

#2338 Markn93

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:58

Not sure if this has been pointed out but, "Jenson Button scored his 44th podium finish, as did Lewis Hamilton."

http://www.f1zone.ne...atistics/13519/

#2339 fieraku

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 13:31

I hadn't read that post fieraku, it does help bring some perspective to this whole issue.

Thanks


Perspective is always good.

Welcome

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#2340 Brandz07

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 13:35

Not sure if this has been pointed out but, "Jenson Button scored his 44th podium finish, as did Lewis Hamilton."

http://www.f1zone.ne...atistics/13519/


45th :)

#2341 fieraku

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 13:40

Well, thanks for the reminder! :up:

The major issue here was of course not the slight overshot, but the downright refusal of the usual suspects to acknowledge even the possibility that that might have contributed to a less than perfect pitstop. Surely it's pure coincidence that McLaren felt the need to fiddle with their pitbox placement just one race later? :D

The overshot is precisely the kind of small little mistakes that happen all the time, by all involved parties, yet in here it's always just everyones but Hamiltons little mistakes that are blown out of all proportion.

Welcome as well.


Maybe JB asked for it,who knows and who cares,it obviously didn't work going by JB's stop.Maybe it's not the box but the people around it.

#2342 Markn93

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 13:42

45th :)


For who, both of them? I'm surprised the article got it wrong.

#2343 engel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 13:47

For who, both of them? I'm surprised the article got it wrong.


both of them got their 45th podium finish in China

#2344 Markn93

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 13:56

both of them got their 45th podium finish in China


Thanks for clarifying :up:

#2345 gricey1981

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 14:19

In quali Lewis has the edge.
In the race I think Jenson is just a tad quicker.

My conclusion: They are both equal in overall pace.

Can you imagine: Brazil. Both them on level points. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think the championship is going to fought between these two. :drunk: :drunk:


Jenson is better slightly at managing the tires i would say.

Look at Nicos recent comments. He never went flat out once in China as he would have ruined his tires.



#2346 TallyHo

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 14:27

Jenson is better slightly at managing the tires i would say.

Look at Nicos recent comments. He never went flat out once in China as he would have ruined his tires.

He never went went flat out because he didn't need too, he was managing the gap he had pulled at the beginning to do a 2 stop. Button who was something like 20 odd seconds to Nico after his first stop got the gap down to Nico to about 7- 8 seconds.

#2347 gricey1981

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 15:08

He never went went flat out because he didn't need too, he was managing the gap he had pulled at the beginning to do a 2 stop. Button who was something like 20 odd seconds to Nico after his first stop got the gap down to Nico to about 7- 8 seconds.


Did you read the article?

"There was not one lap in the race where you could go flat out. You really have to take it carefully and manage the tyres, so it's very challenging. But it worked out fine, and the strategy was also perfect."

You cannot go flat out . You have to balance the speed vs tire wear. Jenson does seem to be maybe a touch better than Lewis at this. Lewis seems to be learning though.

#2348 ForzaGTR

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 17:19

Lewis' qualifying skills will pay off soon.

#2349 TallyHo

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 17:37

Did you read the article?

"There was not one lap in the race where you could go flat out. You really have to take it carefully and manage the tyres, so it's very challenging. But it worked out fine, and the strategy was also perfect."

You cannot go flat out . You have to balance the speed vs tire wear. Jenson does seem to be maybe a touch better than Lewis at this. Lewis seems to be learning though.

Did you watch the race?

Nico was on a 2 stop strategy, he opened up a 6 second lead at the beginning, then when Jenson was forced to pit because of the Red Bulls. the rest of Nico's race was just managing his tyres to make his strategy work. So you can't really use Nico's comment to conclude that everyone else wasn't pushing hard, especially those on a 3 stop. Interestingly Jenson after pitting closed Nico down by about 17 seconds. Doesn't sound to me like someone who wasn't pushing.

#2350 velgajski1

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:07

It would be great if Bahrain results were 1-2 by McLaren's followed by Schumacher/Grosjean/Kimi/Maldonado/Perez/Kobayashi :)