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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#2701 Lomo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:13

I don't care anymore,this ain't racing!

Kr chasing Sv sure looked like racing.

Pretty poor from both drivers today, both with huge bad luck. But at the end of the day they just didn't have the pace.

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#2702 skyform

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:20

I don't care anymore,this ain't racing!


You are right even Schumacher and Rosberg said today that F1 is something very different as it used to be, they don't drive on the limit at any time in the race, they only nurse the tyres, it's a tyre lottery.

#2703 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:21

Kr chasing Sv sure looked like racing.


Which ended probably because of a few degree changes in temperature.

#2704 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:21

Kr chasing Sv sure looked like racing.

Pretty poor from both drivers today, both with huge bad luck. But at the end of the day they just didn't have the pace.

Only to kill the tires. This type of racing reminds me of "Walking on thin ice" the gentlest/smoothest one that doesn't break it wins and the one behind chases and gets near only to break it and fall in,pfffft.

F1 now=Pirelli lottery.

#2705 ForzaGTR

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:24

Stepped nose on the way...

#2706 Masenco

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:25

What was worrying was how once again our race pace was nothing to write home about. We started the season looking like we had some sort of advantage but in the races we've generally not been anything special.


I think this year is very different from previous years as in how the relative pace of all cars seem to change a lot from race to race. It's not just the McLaren, all cars are varying in their relative pace from every race.
I think as the teams understand the cars and tires more and more they will sort it out

#2707 OO7

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:25

Stepped nose on the way...

:lol:

#2708 MinT

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:25

a day to forget for both drivers - an honourable draw maybe ???

#2709 Masenco

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:31

a day to forget for both drivers - an honourable draw maybe ???


I disagree, Lewis has the measure of Jenson today, even with the terrible pitstops in which he lost about 12 seconds plus the extra time he had to spend in traffic, he was still under 6 seconds behind him near the end of the race before jenson's pit.

#2710 trogggy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:31

a day to forget for both drivers - an honourable draw maybe ???

:confused:
I've honestly no idea how you can call that a draw.

#2711 Lomo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:34

Only to kill the tires. This type of racing reminds me of "Walking on thin ice" the gentlest/smoothest one that doesn't break it wins and the one behind chases and gets near only to break it and fall in,pfffft.

F1 now=Pirelli lottery.

Maybe you need to stop living in the past, the days of f1 you talk about are long gone.

It's hard to take what you seriously as most of you say just sound like sour grapes re: Lewis Hamilton.

#2712 MinT

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:35

Button also talking about a poor pitstop......

#2713 joshb

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:36

Even when Button doesn't deserve to be ahead,they manage to get him ahead.

I now this isn't on purpose,is just #2 service for Lewis.

First we try everything ok for Button,later we see the best we can do for Hamilton.


Why not just say he had terrible luck at the races this year?
He didn't do too much wrong, pace wasn't great at times but his poor stops cost him 4th at least. Just very poor luck

#2714 joshb

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:36

Even when Button doesn't deserve to be ahead,they manage to get him ahead.

I now this isn't on purpose,is just #2 service for Lewis.

First we try everything ok for Button,later we see the best we can do for Hamilton.


Why not just say he had terrible luck at the races this year?
He didn't do too much wrong, pace wasn't great at times but his poor stops cost him 4th at least. Just very poor luck

#2715 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:36

In a car that McLaren took special care to cater for Jenson, he can't set it up. Hamilton trounces him today. Given a pitstop should be 4 seconds, 4x3 = 12. Hamilton's pitstops today = 27 seconds? Complete Joke. He would of lost a heck of time in traffic. Hamilton's win, quali and race.

#2716 BMW4life

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:38

Thats what i did once the race became a shambles for Lewis i just enjoyed the race itself


It's called growing up!! :up:

#2717 Markn93

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:39

Both drivers lost, end of. Next race please.

#2718 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:44

What was worrying was how once again our race pace was nothing to write home about. We started the season looking like we had some sort of advantage but in the races we've generally not been anything special.


I think as Hamilton says, Red Bull just have more downforce - as they did last year. Even at Melbourne in qualifying, during Hamilton's pole lap he had to lift through the fast turn 5 where Webber was completely flat. The Red Bull has better traction with more rear downforce, this advantage doesn't count for so much over a single qualifying lap, but clearly is a massive advantage in the race in a traction type circuit like this, I expect it to be the same somewhere like Valencia (as it was back in 2011 where the McLaren's overheated their rears and had pathetic pace despite a reasonable qualifying effort). It's all about the tyres, in case anyone doesn't already know.

#2719 learningtobelost

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:46

On the positive side, the strategy wasn't terrible this time around! :D

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#2720 Boxerevo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:50

Why not just say he had terrible luck at the races this year?
He didn't do too much wrong, pace wasn't great at times but his poor stops cost him 4th at least. Just very poor luck

Poor luck every week ? I am talking about even when he is better than Button on the race day,they manage to get him BEHIND.

This is a vs thread i have to talk about this.

#2721 Kvothe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:51

I don't understand how anyone in sports broadcasting doesn't realise how many people he's pissing off by doing that.

Anyway - clear win for LH, shame about his pit-stops but even with good ones he wasn't looking at better than 4th today.
I was surprised Mac didn't react to Rosberg's last stop where he jumped Button - will have to look again at that because at the time it looked like a mistake. Button was lacklustre all day though.


Neither do I Crofty was abysmal today.

As for the score Lewis gets it by attrition, and I agree nothing better then fourth, the pace and tire management of both was terrible.

I didn't catch that the Rosberg undercut, I'll have to watch the race again, Button spoke about how long his final stint was already so I can only think it was probably because of tire degradation that they didn't cover him off.

#2722 trogggy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:01

I didn't catch that the Rosberg undercut, I'll have to watch the race again, Button spoke about how long his final stint was already so I can only think it was probably because of tire degradation that they didn't cover him off.

Timing
On looking again they pitted JB the lap after NR, which doesn't count as an error. Anyway he was just slow at that point, Nico deserved to be in front of him.

Meh.

#2723 Archybald

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:23

EGAHGH

... i think im going to do everything i can to forget about this race.

#2724 revlec

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:25

I don't know you guys, but i'm not that confident.
WEB is only 9 poinst off the WDC lead, and VET 17 points off.

Once RB will fix their qualifying issues, they will be serious contenders. They still have the downforce(massive amount i must say) but for some reason they are struggling to qualify well. the speed is there though.

I expected a +35 points lead on them by now.


I don't agree with the #1 driver policy as long as other teams are doing the same(like in 2007 with Ferrari and BMW).
Problem is, if RB fix their problems and go behind VET.. that will not end very well.


I understand what you mean.
Talking about RedBull we should remember last year race in China where VET did the exact same strategy with 2 stops and was really struggling.
I'm not that sure that this RB8 is slow(looking at their performance today), and i expect them to surprise "us" in Barcellona.

RB guys should be happy.



VET says hi.. :wave:

#2725 ZooL

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:49

VET says hi.. :wave:

Revlec, now that Vettel is WDC leader, do you agree McLaren should have a #1 policy and give Hamilton all the optimal strategies?

#2726 revlec

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:03

Revlec, now that Vettel is WDC leader, do you agree McLaren should have a #1 policy and give Hamilton all the optimal strategies?


I'm not sure it is necessary as long as WEB and VET are given the same treatment.
Problem could be Alonso because he is #1 in his team, and he is 10 points off the leader(VET) and only 6 points behind HAM.
Ferrari will have a new car in Barcellona, and if it turn out to be fast, it could be a problem for us because ALO is a #1.


The only thing i ask to McLaren is to stop screwing Lewis. that's it.



#2727 dave12

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:05

Revlec, now that Vettel is WDC leader, do you agree McLaren should have a #1 policy and give Hamilton all the optimal strategies?

Based on what? Why not give both drivers optimal strategies and get both of them in front of Seb.

#2728 Boxerevo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:06

The only thing i ask to McLaren is to stop screwing Lewis. that's it.

This.

I don't want nothing better to lewis than to Button.

I just want a fair battle on strategy on race day.


#2729 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:08

So does the point for today go to Lewis considering his 2 f'ups to Jensons 1?

#2730 dave12

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:10

So does the point for today go to Lewis considering his 2 f'ups to Jensons 1?

A win for Lewis if you can call it that :|

#2731 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:11

So does the point for today go to Lewis considering his 2 f'ups to Jensons 1?


No, obviously it's because of out qualifying him, and then showing better race-pace. 16-17 seconds lost with the amateurish stops, added time lost with traffic, but was still around five seconds behind Button before his puncture.

Didn't you watch the race?

#2732 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:12

No, obviously it's because of out qualifying him, and then showing better race-pace. 16-17 seconds lost with the amateurish stops, added time lost with traffic, but was still around five seconds behind Button before his puncture.

Didn't you watch the race?


I give points for both qualifying and the race

so its

4:0

2:2?

#2733 inca_roads

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:47

Can Lewis please, please, get a clean weekend, without bad pit stops, gearbox changes and the like. It's getting unbelievably frustrating, to the point where these things almost have an air of inevitability about them, which is always a bad sign.

#2734 Buttoneer

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:53

Revlec, now that Vettel is WDC leader, do you agree McLaren should have a #1 policy and give Hamilton all the optimal strategies?

Only if you agree that they should have done the same in 2010 after the 4th race.

#2735 OO7

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:55

EGAHGH

... i think im going to do everything i can to forget about this race.

Let me help, just watch the light........
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#2736 hammibal

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:10

You are right even Schumacher and Rosberg said today that F1 is something very different as it used to be, they don't drive on the limit at any time in the race, they only nurse the tyres, it's a tyre lottery.

Yep i think the pirelli tyres are the hamminators :down:

a day to forget for both drivers - an honourable draw maybe ???

Well for what its worth Lewis was quicker but a day to forget for McLaren

Button also talking about a poor pitstop......

Against 3 poor pitstops for Lewis one of which was horrendous, yep that evens things up :rolleyes:

It's called growing up!! :up:

Well its called accepting that McLaren are operationally inept in comparison to say Red Bull

#2737 hammibal

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:15

Scorecard for the record:

Lewis 8 - 4 Jenson

#2738 mich

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:02

Do you know all 17 Lewis's victories were only from 1st, 2nd or 3rd grid.
No doubt he is one of the best sprinter but not fighter.
Last year, he always troubled with Massa and at Monza he cost so much laps to overtake MSC in spite of Jenson overtaking easily.
And this year, at Australia and China he lost much behind Perez who had old tyres and today he didn't overtake Alonso.
I think it's because of his hard input to the inner tyres.

There are many people who want his fair treatment against Jenson.
IMO actually he restricts his own strategy because of his poor overtaking and hard use of tyres.
On the other hands, Jenson can select more suitable one from various plans because of his contrasting character against Lewis.
It was reason why you can see something unfair in McLaren duo.

Edited by mich, 22 April 2012 - 18:04.


#2739 Rurouni

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:03

No, obviously it's because of out qualifying him, and then showing better race-pace. 16-17 seconds lost with the amateurish stops, added time lost with traffic, but was still around five seconds behind Button before his puncture.

Didn't you watch the race?

I have seen the lap times.. Yes, overall Hamilton was faster, but not by much. You need to remember that the gap between Ham and But before the 1st stop is around 5.5. Jenson came ahead with 0.8 advantage over Hamilton and before the 2nd stop, the gap was 1.2s. After the 2nd stop, the difference was 11s, but Ham shave it to 8s before he stop for the last time (which is in this stint/3rd stint where Hamilton were really showing better race pace). For the 3rd stop, Ham got in first (I believe it was because the Ferrari were running away from him.. Ham was slower than But for a few laps before the last stop. Both Ferrari were faster than them!). After the 3rd stop for both, the gap was 6.5s between them. Before the puncture the difference was 5.5s. So Ham shaved 1s. Of course he was held up by Alonso, but when the lap times of Alonso were rising (slower), Button was getting faster (which is somewhat matching what Button had said about preserving the tyres and pushing for the last 5 laps before the puncture).

So 16-17s definitely an exaggeration. the real difference was 11s. Ham was cutting it by 3s (to 8s) using his 'superior' race-pace... and that is it. Cutting it down to 6.5s is because he was stopping first at the 3rd stop. Cutting it by 1s (from 6.5 to 5.5) at the last stint can go either way (because But was saving his tyres.. but then again Ham was being held up by Alonso).

Again, Hamilton was faster. Without his problematic stop, he would definitely finish in front of Button on merit. But their race-pace difference was smaller than you think. Definitely not 11s faster over the whole race.

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#2740 Anomnader

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:05

D
There are many people who want his fair treatment against Jenson.
Actually he restricts his own strategy because of his poor overtaking and hard use of tyres.
On the other hands, Jenson can select more suitable one from various plans because of his contrasting character against Lewis.
It was reason why you can see something unfair in McLaren duo.


I don't when you started watching F1, but Lewis a poor overtaker.

And can you answer something for me, if Lewis is such a hard user of the tyres why is it that Button is always being brought in first??


#2741 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:07

Do you know all 17 Lewis's victories were only from 1st, 2nd or 3rd grid.
No doubt he is one of the best sprinter but not fighter.


Well you need to be a fighter to get 1st, 2nd or 3rd grid position. :rolleyes:

In order to win from way back on the grid your driving needs to be supported by a fault less pit crew a'la Red Bull 2011. Mclarens pit crew has a poor consistency record and I cannot remember the last time they pulled genius calls and helped their driver outfox rivals. Lotus did that today but too many times Mclaren have been on the back foot and cost their drivers dearely.

#2742 Anomnader

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:07

So 16-17s definitely an exaggeration. the real difference was 11s.



How, when he lost that amount almost in one pitstop? And also it is accumulative effect, slow pitstop not only do you lose time but also track position against slower drivers that adds even more time penalty on to it.

Edited by Anomnader, 22 April 2012 - 18:16.


#2743 Boxerevo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:12

Do you know all 17 Lewis's victories were only from 1st, 2nd or 3rd grid.
No doubt he is one of the best sprinter but not fighter.

Humm,so the times he was far behind and came second or third doesn't count.

I am sure lewis did won on 4th too on the grid,silverstone 2008 and hungary 2009 at least.

Edited by Boxerevo, 22 April 2012 - 18:13.


#2744 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:12

A disappointing weekend for both drivers. A car with no race pace and botched pitstops. A weekend to forget IMO. Apart from a qualifying win for Hamilton, nothing to celebrate in the race. 8th place is as crap as 11th.

#2745 Watkins74

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:15

I give points for both qualifying and the race

so its

4:0

2:2?

I agree.

#2746 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:19

So does the point for today go to Lewis considering his 2 f'ups to Jensons 1?


Lewis lost 20-30 secs and still was only 4-5 secs behind JB before he blew a tire.It is safe to say LH wins this one.

#2747 sofarapartguy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:23

Lewis lost 20-30 secs and still was only 4-5 secs behind JB before he blew a tire.It is safe to say LH wins this one.

WUT!?

#2748 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:24

WUT!?

It's complicated.

#2749 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:25

Lewis lost 20-30 secs and still was only 4-5 secs behind JB before he blew a tire.It is safe to say LH wins this one.


Bit of an exaggeration, unless you're adding in lost time in traffic because of it (which I have no idea how much it counted for today). Yeah, pretty clear victory for Hamilton on the scorecard this weekend, not that it's any consolation to anyone. I'm already seeing Vettel winning his third consecutive title - luckily for him, he doesn't drive for that team called McLaren.

#2750 mich

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:26

Humm,so the times he was far behind and came second or third doesn't count.

I am sure lewis did won on 4th too on the grid,silverstone 2008 and hungary 2009 at least.



Sorry, my misstake!
it is true "from 1st-4th grid".