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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#2801 TallyHo

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:12

Lol I definitely noticed. Try live timing. :)

He was ahead of Rosberg by a good few seconds. Then those few seconds started to become less seconds. Then when the gap was only like 1 second, Rosberg pitted, did an incredible outlap, then Button pitted the next lap yet when he exited the pits Rosberg wasn't even in view anymore, that's how much he had won that lap.

The last stint Button was cunning though. Very slow the first few laps and that got me worried, but he was actually saving his tyres and as the stint progressed he was becoming the fastest driver out of the Rosberg-Massa group. 5th was up for grasp again in the end, but I agree that it was a bit chaotic.

Ah Okay thanks for that. :up:

The Macs this weekend seemed to be eating through their rear tyres. What suprised me most though was Button seemed to suffer more than Lewis. He had the same problem in Brazil last year. Do you think this is a set up issue, or is Buttons ability to look after the tyres over rated?

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#2802 Juggles

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:16

http://www.dailymoti...highlights_auto
Lewis: rears are dropping fast
crickets chirping
JB: inaudible
JB's RE: Box this lap


Can someone confirm Schumacher's radio at 6:18...? Maybe I'm just mishearing.

#2803 Kvothe

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:19

Can someone confirm Schumacher's radio at 6:18...? Maybe I'm just mishearing.


Nope your not :), probably to stop it from being transmitted on the world feed.

#2804 Juggles

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:26

Nope your not :), probably to stop it from being transmitted on the world feed.


Thanks, I thought I was going mad

#2805 robefc

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:36

Ah Okay thanks for that. :up:

The Macs this weekend seemed to be eating through their rear tyres. What suprised me most though was Button seemed to suffer more than Lewis. He had the same problem in Brazil last year. Do you think this is a set up issue, or is Buttons ability to look after the tyres over rated?


I think it's overrated in that button drives a certain way that in certain circumstances benefits him and in other circumstances harms him, same as Lewis but the circumstances are different. That and he's prepared to drive 'slowly' when necessary to conserve tyres, I think he generally has a better grasp of when to do that compared to Lewis. Although again you could argue many times the stint time would be the same, hungary was a good example of that.

#2806 hammibal

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:54

Ah ok then. If Jenson hadn't of taken his front wing off in Malaysia he'd have beaten Hamilton, after all he was infront. He'd have also beaten Hamilton in Bahrain if not for his mechanical issues. 4-0 to Button IMHO.

Off course just ignoring that Jenson was consistently slower than Lewis throughout the race :rolleyes:

#2807 Morbus

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:34

Off course just ignoring that Jenson was consistently slower than Lewis throughout the race :rolleyes:

lies

#2808 ForzaGTR

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:55

To be honest I don't even care who is out performing who right now, the bigger issue is Mclaren are making too many errors that have cost their drivers big points. I know it's early days but these errors all add up. The team need a serious review over the next three weeks, which I'm sure will happen. They have two great drivers who are hungry for more titles and both would leave for better teams...

Edited by Olly F1, 23 April 2012 - 22:55.


#2809 swerved

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 23:51

Saw a reference to this article in the testing thread, interesting..

"“If there are other things to test or ways to figure out I will be the one to do it, not let someone else do it.”

So says Lewis, wonder if Jenson will go.

#2810 MP422

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 00:17

To be honest I don't even care who is out performing who right now, the bigger issue is Mclaren are making too many errors that have cost their drivers big points. I know it's early days but these errors all add up. The team need a serious review over the next three weeks, which I'm sure will happen. They have two great drivers who are hungry for more titles and both would leave for better teams...


Amen !! Keep the faith with McLaren. They will shape up.

#2811 BillBald

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 00:57

Button had very little traffic, lot less than Lewis. Here's their laptime graphs: http://i.imgur.com/jqtWD.png

Dot size is proportional to gap ahead, maxing out at 2 seconds, meaning large dots represent at least 2s free track ahead. Button had it for almost the whole race, Hamilton not so.


If Jenson is following another car, and doesn't think he can get past quickly, he drops back to leave a 2 sec gap and save his tyres.




#2812 Gareth

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:28

Nah 1-1. I can't disagree with your methodology but I also can't possibly give China to Lewis.

Fair enough. I guess the earlier in the weekend the variable occurs that allows you to think up your own hypothetical, the easier it is for your favourite driver to come out on top in that hypothetical ;)

And I realise I'm probably fighting a losing battle (not least of which because in the rare instances I disagree with rob, it usually means I'm wrong :D ) and should probably concede the draw. So I'll accept that, and revise my scorecard accordingly, to a 2-1. But not being quite able to be 100% magnanimous, I'll have one last shot at explaining why I thought Hamilton deserved the win on the scorecard ...

I think his qually performance got somewhat underrated. Qualifying that car 2nd was very impressive. Whilst after qually, Whitmarsh (in the bbc interview I saw, and even more so in these comments) focused on the fact that track conditions had deteriorated from the start of Q3 to the end (making life harder for those that did their run at the end), I thought that rather missed the point. Hamilton was able to gain the benefit of the better track conditions in Q3 as a result of his performances in Q1 and Q2 which allowed him to save a set of softs. It wasn't luck that allowed Hamilton to make use of the best track conditions available in the session, it was his performance. He then qualified 3 places, and half a second, ahead of Jenson - pretty impressive, in my book.

If you have Hamilton starting the race in 2nd or 3rd (Schumacher certainly would have done an extra lap, but would have been hampered on that lap by the worsening conditions Whitmarsh mentioned), I think it becomes very difficult to see how Jenson would have finished ahead of him even without the pit stop blunder. For each of the first two stints, they pretty much tracked each other on identical pace - even had Hamilton only qualified third and got into T1 in third, I can't see any justification for saying that Jenson would have gotten ahead of him in either of those stints based on the lap times. The picture then gets muddied by the influence of traffic, forced timing on stops (to cover off Webber), and the pit stop blunder. But I struggle to see Jenson making it past Hamilton either in the pits or (as his pitting a lap or two latter strategy would have required) on the circuit, in particular as being the driver behind and pitting a lap or two later he would be the driver experiencing more of the traffic.

Still, all very hypothetical so I'll concede the draw. But I won't concede any charges of desperation!

That said, Lewis is definitely in a very different place this year and if it continues he ought to be way ahead of Button by the end of the season. The team travails will all even out over 20 races but Lewis just seems much more zen than he was last year. That makes him dangerous.

Completely agree. I wasn't sure whether it was good or bad to see a little of the old Lewis come back when he got dropped behind Rosberg in Bahrain, mind!

#2813 Clatter

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:19

Ah Okay thanks for that. :up:

The Macs this weekend seemed to be eating through their rear tyres. What suprised me most though was Button seemed to suffer more than Lewis. He had the same problem in Brazil last year. Do you think this is a set up issue, or is Buttons ability to look after the tyres over rated?


IMHO it's a setup issue. Both JB's tyre saving and LH's tyre eating are over hyped. We have seen plenty of races where one or the other has made the tyres work better or last longer.


#2814 Lights

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:22

IMHO it's a setup issue. Both JB's tyre saving and LH's tyre eating are over hyped. We have seen plenty of races where one or the other has made the tyres work better or last longer.

Not only the setup, also the race approach.

For anyone that wants a text book example of how they prefer to utilize their tyres over a stint, see stint 2 & 3 of the 2011 Hungarian GP.

Whether it's applicable for this year, probably not. And in most races you'll hardly see any difference.

#2815 robefc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:58

Fair enough. I guess the earlier in the weekend the variable occurs that allows you to think up your own hypothetical, the easier it is for your favourite driver to come out on top in that hypothetical ;)

And I realise I'm probably fighting a losing battle (not least of which because in the rare instances I disagree with rob, it usually means I'm wrong :D )


:D

You know mate, although your profile says 10,000 posts or something, you really don't seem to post enough for me, I think this and other Lewis related threads would benefit from more of your input.

Anyway, I completely agree that there's a very high probability that Lewis would have finished above jenson if he'd started second. However, in reality I think jenson's performance on Sunday was better than Lewis's. Hence the two basically cancel each other out.

I'd be interested in Lights' comments, as he felt it was a clear win to jenson, I'm surprised he didn't respond to your initial post!

#2816 Lazy

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:38

Desperate? I made it pretty clear in my post I thought China was the hardest one to call; the most marginal. I can understand rob's opinion, for example, that it's impossible to tell and should be ignored.

I try and exclude mechanical/team related issues, as that's the best way IMO to try and judge the drivers' relative performance for the purpose of my scorecard: ie if they both received perfect service from their team over the weekend, who would have finished ahead on Sunday? That's an entirely subjective, personal, decision - just like my preference to "score" a weekend (ie who "deserved" (ignoring team stuff) to finish ahead Sunday) rather than separate race and qualy. Everyone has a different way of doing this, none are wrong, just different ways of viewing it. And that one's mine.

So for Bahrain, just prior to Jenson's puncture about 5 laps from the end, Jenson was 5s ahead of Lewis whilst Lewis had lost 14.7s to Jenson in their 3 pit stops (plus more, unquantifiable, time in traffic he wouldn't otherwise have encountered). I'm pretty confident that even if Jenson had run trouble free to the end, he wouldn't have stretched that 5s gap to the 15s+ gap he would have needed to make it a Jenson win in my book. Hence, a Lewis win for the weekend.

For China, if you take away Lewis' broken gearbox he starts 2nd. To me, his and Jenson's performance on Sunday and their pace looked pretty similar. I didn't see a pace advantage on race day for Jenson that would have allowed him to make it from 6th on the grid to ahead of Lewis from 2nd on the grid. Hence calling it for Hamilton. This one is on way more shaky ground than Bahrain, I completely accept. Hence saying it was the closest one to call, and understanding why some would call the weekend a draw for the 2 drivers.



Thats my point, you give Lewis China then you should give Jenson Bahrain. It's 2-2 in my book, Jenson was better in China and Aus. Lewis gets Malaysia and Bahrain.

#2817 Kvothe

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:38

:D

You know mate, although your profile says 10,000 posts or something, you really don't seem to post enough for me, I think this and other Lewis related threads would benefit from more of your input.

:up:

#2818 WitnessX

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:40

Lol I definitely noticed. Try live timing. :)

He was ahead of Rosberg by a good few seconds. Then those few seconds started to become less seconds. Then when the gap was only like 1 second, Rosberg pitted, did an incredible outlap, then Button pitted the next lap yet when he exited the pits Rosberg wasn't even in view anymore, that's how much he had won that lap.

The last stint Button was cunning though. Very slow the first few laps and that got me worried, but he was actually saving his tyres and as the stint progressed he was becoming the fastest driver out of the Rosberg-Massa group. 5th was up for grasp again in the end, but I agree that it was a bit chaotic.


..and yet again we were robbed of a fight in the dying laps .. :well: .. but then having a cracked exhaust, a puncture and a mangled differential all at the same time hopefully thats them out of the way for this year.

http://en.mclarenf-1...3_4_5_6_8_11_14

I tried to figure out why the third stint was so "lame" and then he started seriously picking up in the last one. My guess is that the McLarens used their Q1 set of primes on that stint (Lewis appears to hit the degradation turning point around lap 33). Rosberg must have used his "saved" set of options in stint 2, so he must have been on new primes during stint 3. If Jenson had come in with Rosberg on lap he would have had a chance, however it looks like Lewis's set were on the way out so to stand any chance of jumping Massa they had to bring him in.

Having re-watched the start again, I suspect the reason why Jensons tyres only lasted six laps on the first stint was because of damage done as a result of excess slippage during the start phase judging by the amount of dust difference between the the two sides of the track (The front cars on the cleaner side all had better starts).

#2819 ImDDAA

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:42

:D

You know mate, although your profile says 10,000 posts or something, you really don't seem to post enough for me, I think this and other Lewis related threads would benefit from more of your input.


I agree.

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#2820 ForzaGTR

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:51

According to Sky F1 apparently Lewis may cancel his personal plans for the testing week and go to Mugello to try and sort out the tyre issues. If true I must say this shows a huge improvement in Lewis' mind set over last year. He seems really focused. He has had alot of bad luck this season and yet he has stayed calm and kept his nose out of trouble. There have been a few situations this year where I think Lewis would have DNF'd last season.

#2821 ImDDAA

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:59

According to Sky F1 apparently Lewis may cancel his personal plans for the testing week and go to Mugello to try and sort out the tyre issues. If true I must say this shows a huge improvement in Lewis' mind set over last year. He seems really focused. He has had alot of bad luck this season and yet he has stayed calm and kept his nose out of trouble. There have been a few situations this year where I think Lewis would have DNF'd last season.


To be honest, this is the least I expect and I'm glad to see him doing his job like a professional.

Edited by ImDDAA, 24 April 2012 - 11:59.


#2822 robefc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:59

Thats my point, you give Lewis China then you should give Jenson Bahrain. It's 2-2 in my book, Jenson was better in China and Aus. Lewis gets Malaysia and Bahrain.


I don't see how the two equate?

#2823 ImDDAA

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:03

I don't see how the two equate?


They don't really.

In China both drivers were similar in performance, their starting position was always going to dictate their finishing position - without the penalty Lewis would have qualified infront of Button, started infront of him and probably finished infront of him so I can understand why someone would edge it to Lewis but as Button didn't do much wrong and delt with his traffic without fuss leaving it as a draw seems fair too.

#2824 Clatter

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:05

According to Sky F1 apparently Lewis may cancel his personal plans for the testing week and go to Mugello to try and sort out the tyre issues. If true I must say this shows a huge improvement in Lewis' mind set over last year. He seems really focused. He has had alot of bad luck this season and yet he has stayed calm and kept his nose out of trouble. There have been a few situations this year where I think Lewis would have DNF'd last season.


I'm surprised that neither LH or JB were scheduled to attend.


#2825 ZooL

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:12

Saw a reference to this article in the testing thread, interesting..

"“If there are other things to test or ways to figure out I will be the one to do it, not let someone else do it.”

So says Lewis, wonder if Jenson will go.

Well, it was a very odd decision by Whitmarsh to not let the drivers work address their weak spots.

One may start to think that Whitmarsh didn't want them (thus Hamilton) to test in order to cement Button's advantage.

It's a very wrong decision when the other teams will be sending their racing drivers, pounding lap after lap gaining more tyre understanding.

Looks like Hamilton is putting his foot down and having none of it.

#2826 GlenP

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:19

Well, it was a very odd decision by Whitmarsh to not let the drivers work address their weak spots.

One may start to think that Whitmarsh didn't want them (thus Hamilton) to test in order to cement Button's advantage.

It's a very wrong decision when the other teams will be sending their racing drivers, pounding lap after lap gaining more tyre understanding.

Looks like Hamilton is putting his foot down and having none of it.

Could you explain how not having either driver at the test cements the advantage to one of them? And if it does give the advantage to on driver only, how does it follow that the person who wins is Button?

Go on, have a go at explaining it - I'm looking forward to an amazing answer, to an amazing proposition!

#2827 Dunder

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:33

Well, it was a very odd decision by Whitmarsh to not let the drivers work address their weak spots.

One may start to think that Whitmarsh didn't want them (thus Hamilton) to test in order to cement Button's advantage.

It's a very wrong decision when the other teams will be sending their racing drivers, pounding lap after lap gaining more tyre understanding.

Looks like Hamilton is putting his foot down and having none of it.


One would have to have a distorted view to begin with in order to start to think that.

I am not sure I see much benefit to Lewis (or Jenson) going testing at Mugello, it will be pretty much entirely data driven and the conditions/track will be very different to what we saw in Bahrain.
I like the attitude, nonetheless.


#2828 GlenP

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:36

I like him getting involved. He might learn the names of his wheel men whilst he is at it.

#2829 Markn93

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:40

I like him getting involved. He might learn the names of his wheel men whilst he is at it.


And then he can inform Jenson and they can both have a go at him.

#2830 GlenP

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:43

And then he can inform Jenson and they can both have a go at him.

He he.

#2831 Lazy

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:46

I don't see how the two equate?


Because in both cases they were disadvantaged by mechanical failure. Jenson would have clearly beaten Lewis in Bahrain if not for puncture etc, Gareth is suggesting that Lewis would have won in China were it not for his gearbox.
He gives both China and Bahrain to Lewis which is having it both ways imo.

#2832 robefc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:53

Because in both cases they were disadvantaged by mechanical failure. Jenson would have clearly beaten Lewis in Bahrain if not for puncture etc, Gareth is suggesting that Lewis would have won in China were it not for his gearbox.
He gives both China and Bahrain to Lewis which is having it both ways imo.



Surely you are aware that Gareth is taking into account team mistakes as well? Which more than account for Lewis being behind jenson on Bahrain...

#2833 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:15

And then he can inform Jenson and they can both have a go at him.

Leave a poor man alone - he should've done a suicide already a couple of times I believe)

#2834 GlenP

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:17

Leave a poor man alone - he should've done a suicide already a couple of times I believe)

It's extremely unlikely that it was his fault anyway. Do you guys really think he just fumbled the nut three times?

#2835 ZooL

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:18

Could you explain how not having either driver at the test cements the advantage to one of them? And if it does give the advantage to on driver only, how does it follow that the person who wins is Button?

Go on, have a go at explaining it - I'm looking forward to an amazing answer, to an amazing proposition!

The races so far have demonstrated that Button more often than not is able to make his tyres last longer than Hamilton.

If Hamilton has the ability to pound lap after lap he may be able to work on his technique to make them last better. This then should allow him to narrow the performance window w.r.t to tyre usage over a stint. Whitmarsh has already confirmed Button is better than Hamilton at doing this, although he did say Hamilton is learning.

Now by not allowing either of them to test, it means Hamilton cannot work on his weakness. This then means Button keeps the tyre usage advantage in their intra-team battle.

Button is probably the best in the pitlane and making his tyres last.

#2836 SuperSoft

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:20

The races so far have demonstrated that Button more often than not is able to make his tyres last longer than Hamilton.

If Hamilton has the ability to pound lap after lap he may be able to work on his technique to make them last better. This then should allow him to narrow the performance window w.r.t to tyre usage over a stint. Whitmarsh has already confirmed Button is better than Hamilton at doing this, although he did say Hamilton is learning.

Now by not allowing either of them to test, it means Hamilton cannot work on his weakness. This then means Button keeps the tyre usage advantage in their intra-team battle.

Button is probably the best in the pitlane and making his tyres last.


Why is he having to pit first then?

#2837 robefc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:22

It's extremely unlikely that it was his fault anyway. Do you guys really think he just fumbled the nut three times?


I'm assuming that the cross threading is down to him - although I have no idea how - because otherwise MW could have simply said it's not his fault rather than defending the bravery of the guy for doing it but not defending his competence. He said the first stop wasn't his fault mind.

#2838 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:23

It's extremely unlikely that it was his fault anyway. Do you guys really think he just fumbled the nut three times?

Of course not. Such things are never a mechanic's fault. Tha bad thing is you never know whether gun/wheel nut will work properly or not.

But what is more disturbing is that RB, for example, has become really good on stops for a past 2-3 years. Ferrari made some progress too - fastest stops overall during GP Bahrain.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 24 April 2012 - 13:24.


#2839 BillBald

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:26

..and yet again we were robbed of a fight in the dying laps .. :well: .. but then having a cracked exhaust, a puncture and a mangled differential all at the same time hopefully thats them out of the way for this year.


I found that a little hard to believe. Is it a fact that Jenson had both exhaust and diff failures?

It was sounding odd when he brought it into the pits, maybe someone more expert than me can diagnose the problem.



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#2840 BillBald

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:32

The races so far have demonstrated that Button more often than not is able to make his tyres last longer than Hamilton.

If Hamilton has the ability to pound lap after lap he may be able to work on his technique to make them last better. This then should allow him to narrow the performance window w.r.t to tyre usage over a stint. Whitmarsh has already confirmed Button is better than Hamilton at doing this, although he did say Hamilton is learning.

Now by not allowing either of them to test, it means Hamilton cannot work on his weakness. This then means Button keeps the tyre usage advantage in their intra-team battle.

Button is probably the best in the pitlane and making his tyres last.


That Whitmarsh guy is a complete nutcase. He will cause problems for both his drivers, as long as he can cause slightly more of a problem for Lewis.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got the pit crew to mess up on Jenson's pit stop in China, just so that no-one would guess his real plan was to sabotage Lewis in Bahrain.

I feel better now.



#2841 WitnessX

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 14:15

I found that a little hard to believe. Is it a fact that Jenson had both exhaust and diff failures?

It was sounding odd when he brought it into the pits, maybe someone more expert than me can diagnose the problem.


Well its in the official report:

http://www.mclaren.c...rain-grand-prix

JB: “...In the last few laps, the car sounded really noisy. I think the initial problem was an exhaust failure, then my puncture, and then a differential failure; so I had to retire."

however, I have a suspicion that "XIX Entertainment" have an agreement with McLaren that they have explosive devices on Jensons car which they are allowed to detonate three times a year if he sneaks past Lewis. I think they accidentally fired all three at the same time.
But I could be wrong....


#2842 robefc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 14:18

Well its in the official report:

http://www.mclaren.c...rain-grand-prix

JB: “...In the last few laps, the car sounded really noisy. I think the initial problem was an exhaust failure, then my puncture, and then a differential failure; so I had to retire."

however, I have a suspicion that "XIX Entertainment" have an agreement with McLaren that they have explosive devices on Jensons car which they are allowed to detonate three times a year if he sneaks past Lewis. I think they accidentally fired all three at the same time.
But I could be wrong....


Would be typical of a team tryng to help Lewis to completely cock it up...

:p

#2843 Gareth

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 14:30

rob, kvothe and ImDDAA - you're too kind :blush:

Surely you are aware that Gareth is taking into account team mistakes as well?

Correct.

#2844 BillBald

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 14:49

I suppose it's possible that exhaust failure might have caused the other 2 problems - hot exhaust gases going in the wrong direction.

#2845 Lazy

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 15:14

Surely you are aware that Gareth is taking into account team mistakes as well? Which more than account for Lewis being behind jenson on Bahrain...


Ok, so without team mistake in China Jenson would have been 2nd or maybe even 1st, very hard to give it to Lewis then. Button was better in overtaking, tyre management and even edged it in pace in China. I'm not trying to argue Bahrain, I'm arguing that the score is 2-2 (or 1-1 by Buttoneers logic). 3-1 is a total misrepresentation of the season so far.

#2846 gricey1981

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 15:16

Ok, so without team mistake in China Jenson would have been 2nd or maybe even 1st, very hard to give it to Lewis then. Button was better in overtaking, tyre management and even edged it in pace in China. I'm not trying to argue Bahrain, I'm arguing that the score is 2-2 (or 1-1 by Buttoneers logic). 3-1 is a total misrepresentation of the season so far.


Id say China is a draw as without the penalty chances are hamilton would have finished ahead.

2 -1 in my book

#2847 mstar

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 16:13

i have a suspicion, the cars upgrades for china/bahrain are upsetting the cars balance. Contributing to the high rear tyre wear. also it seems the car is very senstive to tempertures and wind. I hope i am wrong but i have a feeling there is nothing JB/LH can do at the moment its not they are not setting the car up wrong, its just that the car has a narrow set-up window just like the tyres.

JB and LH will never dominate each other as their is to much parameters in the Mclaren car and the tyres.

Edited by mstar, 24 April 2012 - 16:14.


#2848 lewymp4

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 16:50

I'm surprised that neither LH or JB were scheduled to attend.



So was I.......I was hoping that both Lewis and Jenson would test at Mugello, especially cosidering their poor results at Bahrain, and it's good news if that occurs.

#2849 TeamMacca

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 17:08

So was I.......I was hoping that both Lewis and Jenson would test at Mugello, especially cosidering their poor results at Bahrain, and it's good news if that occurs.


Lewis will now be attending the testing but JB won't

#2850 inca_roads

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 17:10

Ok, so without team mistake in China Jenson would have been 2nd or maybe even 1st, very hard to give it to Lewis then. Button was better in overtaking, tyre management and even edged it in pace in China. I'm not trying to argue Bahrain, I'm arguing that the score is 2-2 (or 1-1 by Buttoneers logic). 3-1 is a total misrepresentation of the season so far.


Button was better in the race in China. But qualifying is lap one of the race, in effect, as people have said on here before. Without Lewis' penalty, I believe he'd have finished ahead of Jenson, therefore the weekend score would be for Lewis.

As an exaggeration of this point, if Jenson spun off in Q1, started last and then had a superb race, climbing up to 3rd and being much quicker than Hamilton, but Lewis came second from second on the grid, surely it must still be Lewis who gets the weekend point, if you count qualifying and the race as a whole.