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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#3251 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:29

So why didn't he?

Don't know why you ask this, he said it several times on the radio? And it wasn't tyres.

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#3252 Wifey

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:35

either way button was dominated by Hamilton today!

we will have to see how the race pans out, but Hamilton does go very well around here, so if he gets a good start it is his race to loose!

#3253 fieraku

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:35

Don't know why you ask this, he said it several times on the radio? And it wasn't tyres.

Oversteer/understeer which means he had no grip no, which means he couldn't switch on the tires.

#3254 Juggles

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:38

How many times have we heard Button complain about balance since he's been at McLaren? It's feels like at least 50% of the races he has some sort of issue with his set-up - rarely does it effect him badly in the race though and that's what matters most.


He does seem a bit too sensitive to this sort of thing. I expect him to get well into the points but I think a podium may be slightly out of reach.

Scintillating performance throughout qualifying from Hamilton. Let's hope he can convert tomorrow.

I'd like to see Grosjean on the podium again, he always seems very cheerful.

#3255 KateLM

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:46

I hope they find an issue with JB's car. It doesn't make any sense at all that putting more front wing on would lead to more understeer.

I doubt it's as much an issue as it is Button's difficulty with cars he's not completely happy with. When the set-up is perfect, he excels. But when it isn't he seems to suffer a lot more than other drivers do. Can be both a strength and a weakness, I suppose.

#3256 dave12

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:52

Oversteer/understeer which means he had no grip no, which means he couldn't switch on the tires.

:up: Lets not forget that both Lewis and Jenson had the same thing in Bahrain.


#3257 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:53

Oversteer/understeer which means he had no grip no, which means he couldn't switch on the tires.

'Switching on' is nothing more then getting the tyres in the correct temperature range, and although he obviously struggles to do that with the prime tyre, this shouldn't be an issue with the options at all.

#3258 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:55

How many times have we heard Button complain about balance since he's been at McLaren? It's feels like at least 50% of the races he has some sort of issue with his set-up - rarely does it effect him badly in the race though and that's what matters most.

Perhaps it wasn't your point, but it's not just since he's been at McLaren.

#3259 dave12

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:57

'Switching on' is nothing more then getting the tyres in the correct temperature range, and although he obviously struggles to do that with the prime tyre, this shouldn't be an issue with the options at all.

:confused: If you cant get the tires to correct temperature you cant switch them on.

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#3260 Callisto

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:57

Cracking lap by Ham for P1 :up:

#3261 ImDDAA

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:00

Perhaps it wasn't your point, but it's not just since he's been at McLaren.


Not really my point no - Jenson is a sensitive driver who has a narrower operating window than Lewis, I believe.

#3262 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:01

:confused: If you cant get the tires to correct temperature you cant switch them on.

Exactly. And nothing indicates that he couldn't get get heat into the soft tyres.

#3263 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:02

Not really my point no - Jenson is a sensitive driver who has a narrower operating window than Lewis, I believe.

I figured, and yes, hard to argue against that. In fact I don't know any driver like him.

Edited by Lights, 12 May 2012 - 15:02.


#3264 dave12

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:22

Exactly. And nothing indicates that he couldn't get get heat into the soft tyres.

Logic dictates that if the tires are up to temp ( correct working range ) then they should work?

I just cant see how the tires are at there correct temp working range but not give out grip ( switched on )

#3265 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:25

Logic dictates that if the tires are up to temp ( correct working range ) then they should work?

I just cant see how the tires are at there correct temp working range but not give out grip ( switched on )

Me neither.

Hence why I believe it was balance issues, not tyre issues.

#3266 dave12

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:26

Me neither.

Hence why I believe it was balance issues, not tyre issues.

Hopefully Macca can shed some light on this later.

#3267 bonjon1979a

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:28

Does anyone think that Vettel, Button and Webber will be starting on the hards tomorrow? With Hamilton & co on a tyre that degrades quickly, and with the pack so bunched up that when the front runners pit early they'll be stuck in traffic with the drivers on the Hard streaking off into the distance.


I'm not sure - those on the hards will have a tougher time off the line, on a slower tyre for the first 4-5 laps could cost a lot, especially at a track where overtaking is notoriously difficult. We'll have to see how it pans out. I think that there definitely is something going on with Whitmarsh but I don't think it's the obvious thing. Every time lewis does well he does seem to start talking about Jenson almost immediately, I see it less as favoring jenson and more him reassuring him. With a quarter of the season's qualifying gone, Hamilton has beaten button 100% of the time. Hamilton doesn't really need pumping up, where as Jenson may well do. We'll see how it pans out but MW would have to be an absolute buffoon to be backing JB to the detriment of LH as it's clear who could provide more in the long term. I suspect he's just trying to get the most out of both his drivers so feels the need to pump JB at the moment.

#3268 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:30

Hopefully Macca can shed some light on this later.

I'm not expecting anything from McLaren, they haven't been able to figure anything out during the weekend. Tomorrow either Button keeps struggling, or the problems miraculously disappear.

I've seen the latter happen plenty of times so I'm keeping some hope for now. Still, it sets the image for this season though and I cannot be positive.

#3269 robefc

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:36

I'm not expecting anything from McLaren, they haven't been able to figure anything out during the weekend. Tomorrow either Button keeps struggling, or the problems miraculously disappear.

I've seen the latter happen plenty of times so I'm keeping some hope for now. Still, it sets the image for this season though and I cannot be positive.


They were probably too busy learning how to do pit stops.

Now all they have to do is figure out tyres and how to fuel a bloody car...and they'll be dead set.



#3270 dave12

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:37

I'm not expecting anything from McLaren, they haven't been able to figure anything out during the weekend. Tomorrow either Button keeps struggling, or the problems miraculously disappear.

I've seen the latter happen plenty of times so I'm keeping some hope for now. Still, it sets the image for this season though and I cannot be positive.

Jenson was fine last year so i dont think that would be a issue TBH.

Oh and on Lewis

Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1

Little bird tells me McLaren have admitted @LewisHamilton stopped on track cos no fuel. Not allowed. May well get sporting penalty #BBCF1

If true well done Macca :rolleyes:

#3271 Boxerevo

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:39

Jeson will do fine on the race,he moans but rarely is a disaster on race day for him since 2011,on race pace.

Edited by Boxerevo, 12 May 2012 - 15:40.


#3272 dave12

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:41

Jeson will do fine on the race,he moans but rarely is a disaster on race day for him since 2011,on race pace.

Agreed it just bugs the hell out of me that he starting from P11. I was hoping for front row. :|

Edited by dave12, 12 May 2012 - 15:43.


#3273 TeamMacca

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:43

Be hard for Jenson from there with the cars infront but he can still get a top 5 finish maybe higher.

I also don't see him beating Lewis in Monaco, although JB goes well round there i feel Monaco is Lewis's track and could be another Pole postion coming up where overtaking is nearly impossible without crashing.

#3274 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:43

They were probably too busy learning how to do pit stops.

Now all they have to do is figure out tyres and how to fuel a bloody car...and they'll be dead set.

That's a bit too optimistic I'm afraid :D

They can certainly use some good pit stops tomorrow though. And reliability. And good starts. It's a long way to T1.

#3275 TeamMacca

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:50

Be hard for Jenson from there with the cars infront but he can still get a top 5 finish maybe higher.

I also don't see him beating Lewis in Monaco, although JB goes well round there i feel Monaco is Lewis's track and could be another Pole postion coming up where overtaking is nearly impossible without crashing.

#3276 Lazy

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 16:06

Be hard for Jenson from there with the cars infront but he can still get a top 5 finish maybe higher.

I also don't see him beating Lewis in Monaco, although JB goes well round there i feel Monaco is Lewis's track and could be another Pole postion coming up where overtaking is nearly impossible without crashing.


I think it's 50/50 for Jenson, good chance he can get the hards working in race conditions, time his pit stops right for traffic and be right up there at the end, equally he may languish in the midfield the whole race.

Looks like Lewis' turn to win a race though :)

Edited by Lazy, 12 May 2012 - 16:07.


#3277 ImDDAA

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 16:27

Looks like Lewis may have been underfuelled - if true once again, the team have made a needless mistake which wreck his chances of taking advantage of his situation. I love the saying 'no one is as good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as McLaren' because it's true. They are such a paradox - super professional, super slick, super incompetent.

#3278 Aieljose

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 17:04

Hamilton was the far quicker driver all weekend. Quite sad that jenson had what appears to be set up related issues because it would have been interesting to see his pace vs hamilton all things being equal. The good news for Jenson is the understeer should help look after the rear tires in the race which i think will give hamilton problems.

#3279 Dalton007

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 17:40

Utter stupidity if MAC under-fuelled Lewis's car -- I believe they are blaming the fuel-rig. Pull the other one.

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#3280 robefc

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:11

Just advance warning, even if JB wins and laps the field whilst lewis gets stuck behind a HRT all race I'll still have difficulty giving it even a draw let alone a win to JB...

mind you there's a chance, albeit a small one, that I might have calmed down by then, probably not though!

#3281 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:12

Just advance warning, even if JB wins and laps the field whilst lewis gets stuck behind a HRT all race I'll still have difficulty giving it even a draw let alone a win to JB...

mind you there's a chance, albeit a small one, that I might have calmed down by then, probably not though!

Don't worry, if this happens I'll totally agree with you.

#3282 mlsnoopy

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:13

These thread is no longer relevent. If not after today then when it will be clear that the only reason Button is close or even ahead of Hamilton is because of the team.

#3283 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:13

I still expect Hamilton to finish in front of Button tomorrow actually. Hamilton might be grossly penalized but at least he still has actual pace to use tomorrow.

#3284 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:14

These thread is no longer relevent. If not after today then when it will be clear that the only reason Button is close or even ahead of Hamilton is because of the team.

That's not true. Close or ahead of Hamilton in what?

#3285 kensaundm31

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:22

I still expect Hamilton to finish in front of Button tomorrow actually. Hamilton might be grossly penalized but at least he still has actual pace to use tomorrow.



Which will be nullified by the fact that the tyres will only allow him to drive at a non-maximum speed.

#3286 P123

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:25

Feel sorry for you guys. Strip him of his Q3 efforts, but don't send him to the very back... How did McLaren cock this up so badly?
For once, I'm starting to agree with those of you who say he should leave McLaren! For a team which strives for perfection, even in terms of presentation at their HQ, how could they overlook something fundamental like this?


McLaren have a long history of cock-ups, although they are excelling themselves this season. Their competitors must be thankful of their inability to function as a professional race team. However, no use crying over spilled fuel, the race is tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing both McLarens move forward, assuming the pitstops and strategy can function at the required level....

#3287 fieraku

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:26

These thread is no longer relevent. If not after today then when it will be clear that the only reason Button is close or even ahead of Hamilton is because of the team.


Scorecard wise it has been all year for me,can't honestly assess anything in the "Show" era.

#3288 Hulkster

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:26

Once Hamilton qualified 10 places ahead of Button, I said Whitmarsh would have to come up with something special to get JB ahead.

Can't believe he actually managed it.

#3289 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:27

Which will be nullified by the fact that the tyres will only allow him to drive at a non-maximum speed.

Nonsense, if the balance issues for Jenson remain he'll suffer from more tyre wear while driving at a slower pace.

#3290 robefc

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:31

I still expect Hamilton to finish in front of Button tomorrow actually. Hamilton might be grossly penalized but at least he still has actual pace to use tomorrow.


Reminds me uncomfortably of monaco last year when he was massively frustrated at not getting the opportunity with a great car in quali, was at a track where's it difficult to overtake, forced it too much....and then his whole season unravelled...

#3291 mlsnoopy

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:31

That's not true. Close or ahead of Hamilton in what?


How is that not true? Tell me.
The only reason that Button finished close to Hamilton in 2010 were the better strategies and the constant srew ups from the team.
The same for 2011, the same is happening these year.


#3292 robefc

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:33

Don't worry, if this happens I'll totally agree with you.


If it does happen then you agreeing with me won't be much comfort...and you'll be doing cartwheels anyway! :p

#3293 robefc

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:34

How is that not true? Tell me.
The only reason that Button finished close to Hamilton in 2010 were the better strategies and the constant srew ups from the team.
The same for 2011, the same is happening these year.


That's such utter bollocks and completely derails any legitimate discussions about maccas screw ups regarding lewis/lewis's bad luck this season

#3294 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:35

Reminds me uncomfortably of monaco last year when he was massively frustrated at not getting the opportunity with a great car in quali, was at a track where's it difficult to overtake, forced it too much....and then his whole season unravelled...

And you don't think he learned from that? Because I think he did. Already had quite the bad luck this season yet drove brilliantly today.

I wouldn't go as far as to say this will ruin the rest of his season, even though you didn't literally say this.

#3295 inca_roads

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:35

The two days where Lewis has gained a huge advantage over Vettel/Webber/Button in qualifying are the same two events he's received penalties, totally nullifying them. Lovely.

#3296 TeamMacca

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:36

Lewis has beat jenson in Quali in every race and lets look at those races where the team screwed Lewis over.

Australia - gave him the wrong clutch settings allowing JB to beat him off the line
Maly - Awful pitstop allowing Jenson to get ahead
China - 5 grid penalty as the gearbox was damaged in transit
Bahrain - not sure if i can even mention the pitstops as they are just a complete joke
Spain - :rolleyes:



#3297 P123

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:36

Reminds me uncomfortably of monaco last year when he was massively frustrated at not getting the opportunity with a great car in quali, was at a track where's it difficult to overtake, forced it too much....and then his whole season unravelled...


Well here is to a calm and controlled climb through the field by LH tomorrow.... no use him losing his front wing against a Lotus.

#3298 TeamMacca

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:38

That's such utter bollocks and completely derails any legitimate discussions about maccas screw ups regarding lewis/lewis's bad luck this season


Agree, 2010 Lewis was just better and infact he kind of lost the title himself with the crashes in Singapore and Italy

2011 Lewis was just not right and Jenson was excellent

This year the team are just screwing him over and if not for the mistakes he would have a good lead over JB.

The team is becoming a joke

#3299 P123

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:38

Lewis has beat jenson in Quali in every race and lets look at those races where the team screwed Lewis over.

Australia - gave him the wrong clutch settings allowing JB to beat him off the line
Maly - Awful pitstop allowing Jenson to get ahead
China - 5 grid penalty as the gearbox was damaged in transit
Bahrain - not sure if i can even mention the pitstops as they are just a complete joke
Spain - :rolleyes:


It's just general incompetence. They even screwed JB in China though a poor stop, and what happened with JBs setup today? For conspiracies...... maybe the highest paid Red Bull or Ferrari employee works as a low level engineer for McLaren. :lol:

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#3300 Lights

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 18:38

If it does happen then you agreeing with me won't be much comfort...and you'll be doing cartwheels anyway! :p

Yes, that was kinda my point. :D

We've seen more great drives through the field in the past though, it's not all doomed for Lewis.