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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#301 HoldenRT

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:37

Lewis got blown away today.. really surprising especially after the initial comparisons between them (when Button first joined the team). It seems the longer time goes on, the more the car is adapted towards Button or at least, more in the middle of both of them.

It's only one race so far though. Still.. Button's raw pace vs Lewis was impressive.

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#302 fieraku

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:37

would button be out there if he was losing time on his tyres? no! He would tell the team he is coming in, undercut or not. He has done it before Lewis is the one who is the wimp.

Exactly!

#303 ermo

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:39

It's just one race, though. It will be interesting to follow Lewis over the course of the season in terms of whether his new personal coach/manager Didier Coton can help Hamilton focus his energy and attention on improving the aspects of his racing and mind management that may need ever so small improvements instead of him losing focus and becoming distracted by the inevitable setbacks and off days that everyone has from time to time.

Yes, this will have felt like a slap in the face for Lewis. But if you look at Jenson's approach over the past two seasons, he's simply got on with the job regardless and worked calmly and methodically with the team and his side of the garage to put himself in a position where he's got the car and the environment he needs to reach his peak performance. That's the professional approach and that's where Lewis IMHO may have an opportunity to learn from him.

Also, Lewis didn't try anything silly today; even if he must have been frustrated, he didn't bin the car, he just brought it home calmly and got 15 points on the board. Yes, he was probably shellshocked that Jenson took the start like that and that he wasn't able to keep up, but he recovered and only a poor luck of the draw with the safety car prevented a BUT - HAM 1-2 for McLaren. Sh*t happens and here's hoping that Lewis just gets his head down and doesn't let this race distract him too much.

Edited by ermo, 18 March 2012 - 09:43.


#304 robefc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:41

How would they advantage him,that is not a fact Rob,disadvantaging Lewis was. I'm surprised you don't see the irony here.


You are saying that they should think of the team and pit the driver that is second and struggling first.

That is giving them an advantage versus the lead driver clearly because they get the fresh tyres first and get a chance at the undercut.

Now if you're happy for that to happen then fine but my question is would you be happy if by doing the above they gave button an advantage over lewis? Either by button taking the place off lewis or gaining significant time on him?

In addition, if the driver's knew the above was a possiblity, the lead driver would always pit earlier to prevent the second driver getting that advantage, thereby compromising his strategy. Would you be happy with lewis compromising his strategy to prevent jenson getting the undercut?

#305 ForzaGTR

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:42

Lewis was crap today. I hope he picks his game up for next week. Jenson is clearly one of the best drivers in F1

#306 f1rules

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:46

i have to say button just keeps surprising me. Amazing today and he is clearly taking over in the team. Because t the same time he is a very relaxed and likable person. Almost like when hamilton and alonso where together. Everyone expected alonso to control. He didn't and lost the team to the younger more relaxed hamilton. Now hamilton is loosing to button, something no one would have thought possible. Button :up: Still hamilton when he peaks :eek:

Edited by f1rules, 18 March 2012 - 09:47.


#307 jrg19

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:47

So next week in Malaysia if Lewis is leading he will be the one making the decisions, making the pit stop calls and dictating the pace as Button did today if McLaren are going to have driver equality.

If Lewis had kept 1st on the first lap it would have been his race to loose and Jenson knew that and executed it brilliantly.

#308 Lights

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:53

I still can't quite believe Jenson's performance today and I have to keep my feet on the ground by saying that I don't expect this to stay the norm. This is still only one of the few races that Jenson outpaces Lewis in the dry since they are teammates. Lewis will be back, sure of that. I just hope Jenson maximizes all his opportunities. If he wants to win another title he will need to.

#309 fieraku

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:54

You are saying that they should think of the team and pit the driver that is second and struggling first.

That is giving them an advantage versus the lead driver clearly because they get the fresh tyres first and get a chance at the undercut.

Now if you're happy for that to happen then fine but my question is would you be happy if by doing the above they gave button an advantage over lewis? Either by button taking the place off lewis or gaining significant time on him?

In addition, if the driver's knew the above was a possiblity, the lead driver would always pit earlier to prevent the second driver getting that advantage, thereby compromising his strategy. Would you be happy with lewis compromising his strategy to prevent jenson getting the undercut?


A chance Rob,a chance,and it doesn't mean it'll work since the strategy is already compromised,but what it does do is it doesn't favor your rival from another team which is who you're fighting against.

And didn't JB last year pit first right after LH overtook him cant recall where.And I'd be EXTATIC if JB got the advantage and NOT Vettel :wave: I'd tell Hammer myself

#310 flyer121

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:56

Lewis was crap today. I hope he picks his game up for next week. Jenson is clearly one of the best drivers in F1

Not a fan but Lewis wasnt that much off the pace at all....

Jb and him were trading laptimes alternate laps....

The problem was Vettel who got the jump due to the SC , if not for him we could ve seen a scrap for the win.

Even as a seb fan, i was missing the fact that lewis is not pushing JB for the win... I knew seb just cudnt !


#311 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:57

Jenson was sublie today, what an impressive drive, clearly the superior driver in the team.

Lewis, sorry to say but he didn looked so good still left in 2011 form it seems.

#312 ForzaGTR

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:59

Button did this a few times last year too, so I don't expect this to be a one off. His pace was astonishing right from lap one. It must be possible for Lewis to match it, strange, can't even blame tyres as it happened from lap one. Odd seeing as Lewis got pole. Next weekend will be interesting.

#313 robefc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:01

A chance Rob,a chance,and it doesn't mean it'll work since the strategy is already compromised,but what it does do is it doesn't favor your rival from another team which is who you're fighting against.

And didn't JB last year pit first right after LH overtook him cant recall where.And I'd be EXTATIC if JB got the advantage and NOT Vettel :wave: I'd tell Hammer myself


If Jenson ever finishes ahead of Lewis thanks to getting the undercut on him in this way or closing the gap sufficiently to tke advantage later I will be pissed off beyond words.

I can understand a fan of the team wanting them to maximise the team chances but as a fan of a driver not a team then form he's racing against his teammate as much as anyone else (and in some ways more).

In a way I can appreciate the fact macca set this 'rule' up to favour individual driver over the team...but you need to be ahead to have the advantage.



#314 jrg19

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:02

Button did this a few times last year too, so I don't expect this to be a one off. His pace was astonishing right from lap one. It must be possible for Lewis to match it, strange, can't even blame tyres as it happened from lap one. Odd seeing as Lewis got pole. Next weekend will be interesting.


Its so early into the season but next week could already be pivotal in the team battle another Jenson win could be catastrophic for Lewis in terms of the teams backing.

#315 btrader

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:06

If Jenson ever finishes ahead of Lewis thanks to getting the undercut on him in this way or closing the gap sufficiently to tke advantage later I will be pissed off beyond words.

I can understand a fan of the team wanting them to maximise the team chances but as a fan of a driver not a team then form he's racing against his teammate as much as anyone else (and in some ways more).

In a way I can appreciate the fact macca set this 'rule' up to favour individual driver over the team...but you need to be ahead to have the advantage.



So how did this rule apply to china last year?

#316 Coral

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:07

Its so early into the season but next week could already be pivotal in the team battle another Jenson win could be catastrophic for Lewis in terms of the teams backing.


Lewis has not had much luck at Malaysia in the past, so I'm not optimistic about next week's race. I think it will be between Button and Vettel. To be honest I think today's GP was the writing on the wall for Lewis at McLaren. I can't see him re-signing now, and I really don't know where he goes from here.

#317 robefc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:08

So how did this rule apply to china last year?


From the macca thread (and it was pretty evident in the first stint, nearly cost lewis the race)

I think pitting first at that point was a disadvantage because they were switching to the hards that took a lap or two to warm up

Could be wrong but I remember being surprised at the time and I think that was the explanation

Certainly worked out ok!


regardless of whether the above is correct or not, I asked you when jb has come in without the team telling him to (to prove he's not a wimp like lewis)...

Edited by robefc, 18 March 2012 - 10:09.


#318 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:10

I posted this in the McLaren thread, but I think it's relevant here:

People just have to accept that McLaren have a very strong driver line-up and that Jenson is a more than competent driver - good enough to challenge Lewis.

Can we (McLaren fans) not be pleased that we actually have such a good driver line-up that if one of them has bad luck (like Lewis today) then the other is strong enough to still win. Imagine if we still had Kova as our 2nd driver then we might have seen Vettel win today.

Some of you guys need to get behind the team more and have less driver fanboyisms.

#319 ForzaGTR

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:11

Lewis has not had much luck at Malaysia in the past, so I'm not optimistic about next week's race. I think it will be between Button and Vettel. To be honest I think today's GP was the writing on the wall for Lewis at McLaren. I can't see him re-signing now, and I really don't know where he goes from here.


It's only the writing on the wall if he doesn't pick his game up. If this pattern continues then he will only have himself to blame. I still believe he will beat Button but he needs to make it happen, he now appears to have the car he has been begging for over the last 3 years.

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#320 Alarcon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:11

A chance Rob,a chance,and it doesn't mean it'll work since the strategy is already compromised,but what it does do is it doesn't favor your rival from another team which is who you're fighting against.

And didn't JB last year pit first right after LH overtook him cant recall where.And I'd be EXTATIC if JB got the advantage and NOT Vettel :wave: I'd tell Hammer myself



I miss you on Sebastian Vettel thread... or you only came there just when Seb had problems? :lol:

As I always said McLaren should focus their attention on Jenson to achieve the WDC and on Lewis to achieve the race. Despite, Lewis will won a lot of races this season, because he run in the fastest car.

#321 marcoferrari

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:11

Albert Park is Button s track... Undoubtedly...

#322 fieraku

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:12

If Jenson ever finishes ahead of Lewis thanks to getting the undercut on him in this way or closing the gap sufficiently to tke advantage later I will be pissed off beyond words.

I can understand a fan of the team wanting them to maximise the team chances but as a fan of a driver not a team then form he's racing against his teammate as much as anyone else (and in some ways more).

In a way I can appreciate the fact macca set this 'rule' up to favour individual driver over the team...but you need to be ahead to have the advantage.


Than you understand how LH fans feel when Mac gifts Vettel 10 seconds and a 2nd place.And who knows maybe the title,it's not like they haven't before.

Edited by fieraku, 18 March 2012 - 10:13.


#323 btrader

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:13

Lewis has not had much luck at Malaysia in the past, so I'm not optimistic about next week's race. I think it will be between Button and Vettel. To be honest I think today's GP was the writing on the wall for Lewis at McLaren. I can't see him re-signing now, and I really don't know where he goes from here.



He has two choices be number 2 at McLaren and have the chance to win races but not be the number 1 driver or move to a team where has has the chance to be number 1 driver but not win races. The choice is his - neither are attractive but if I was him I would take option 1 just like Webber did. No shame in being a number 2 driver and winning the occasional race.

#324 robefc

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:14

Than you understand how LH fans feel when Mac gifts Vettel 10 seconds and a 2nd place.And who knows maybe the title,it's not like they haven't before.


Nope, you can't have it both ways, if lewis was in JB's shoes he'd have had the same advantage, lewis needs to do a better job to be ahead.

#325 ForzaGTR

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:15

He has two choices be number 2 at McLaren and have the chance to win races but not be the number 1 driver or move to a team where has has the chance to be number 1 driver but not win races. The choice is his - neither are attractive but if I was him I would take option 1 just like Webber did. No shame in being a number 2 driver and winning the occasional race.


You know full well that statement is something Hamilton will never accept or any respectable racing driver for that matter. Any F1 driver that thinks that way is a loser.

#326 Alarcon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:16

I posted this in the McLaren thread, but I think it's relevant here:

People just have to accept that McLaren have a very strong driver line-up and that Jenson is a more than competent driver - good enough to challenge Lewis.

Can we (McLaren fans) not be pleased that we actually have such a good driver line-up that if one of them has bad luck (like Lewis today) then the other is strong enough to still win. Imagine if we still had Kova as our 2nd driver then we might have seen Vettel win today.

Some of you guys need to get behind the team more and have less driver fanboyisms.



:up:

One of the most ballanced posts I´ve ever read here. McLaren will be the "team to beat" and Lewis will win a lot of races.

As I said yesterday after the first Q3, it´s only the first race ! And after seven days... new race, new world, new perspectives...

Edited by Alarcon, 18 March 2012 - 10:16.


#327 jrg19

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:17

Nope, you can't have it both ways, if lewis was in JB's shoes he'd have had the same advantage, lewis needs to do a better job to be ahead.


This.

If Lewis is ahead we will see this next week :up:

#328 Coral

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:19

He has two choices be number 2 at McLaren and have the chance to win races but not be the number 1 driver or move to a team where has has the chance to be number 1 driver but not win races. The choice is his - neither are attractive but if I was him I would take option 1 just like Webber did. No shame in being a number 2 driver and winning the occasional race.


Whaaaat!!! Are you serious?! Lewis is a WDC, there is no way on this earth he should accept being a No. 2 and "winning the occasional race." Good grief, that is ridiculous. Lewis needs to find another team because he is clearly jaded at McLaren. Right now I would settle for his going to Mercedes, Lotus or heck, even Williams.

#329 kimifanatic

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:20

Some people suggest to change rules(tyres) to accommodate poor Hamilton, anyway he was no different in 2010, just that his team mate took time to settle in the new team.

However, a driver not winning from pole with the fastest car is not and dreams beating his rival in the other car

Just being good over 1 lap or a good over taker (use to be) can't be considered as best driver as few suggest.

#330 mash26

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:20

Because he's supposed to be living his dream of being a Formula One driver and he's on the podium of the first race of the year. How many drivers can you remember that were annoyed that they only came in third in the first race? Or any race?

Being annoyed is a sign of weakness and it's unproductive. The mechanics won't like it either.

Think about what Jenson would be doing if the situation was reversed - he'd be all smiles and saying how it's great to start the year with a podium (just ask Michael and Nico about the start of their year) and how he'd be trying to get one back on Lewis in Malaysia next week. He certainly wouldn't be pouting like a child.

Sorry, I'm just disappointed that he hasn't figured this out yet. I really thought he had matured a lot in the off season, but right now it appears not. Let's hope I'm wrong.

Well if you start the year in the best car and you have the sort of talent Lewis hamilton has you SHOULD be upset if you lose 2 positions in a race and cannot keep up with your teammate.
This is Jenson's track and his set up was better than that of Lewis. I expect Malaysia will be a different story.

#331 Markn93

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:21

He has two choices be number 2 at McLaren and have the chance to win races but not be the number 1 driver or move to a team where has has the chance to be number 1 driver but not win races. The choice is his - neither are attractive but if I was him I would take option 1 just like Webber did. No shame in being a number 2 driver and winning the occasional race.


:rolleyes:

Edited by Markn93, 18 March 2012 - 10:21.


#332 garoidb

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:21

You are saying that they should think of the team and pit the driver that is second and struggling first.

That is giving them an advantage versus the lead driver clearly because they get the fresh tyres first and get a chance at the undercut.

Now if you're happy for that to happen then fine but my question is would you be happy if by doing the above they gave button an advantage over lewis? Either by button taking the place off lewis or gaining significant time on him?

In addition, if the driver's knew the above was a possiblity, the lead driver would always pit earlier to prevent the second driver getting that advantage, thereby compromising his strategy. Would you be happy with lewis compromising his strategy to prevent jenson getting the undercut?


If Jenson and Lewis look like being the main contenders for the WDC (which seems possible), this could become a headache. They will have to compete as if they are not team-mates, with independent strategies, no communication and no strings being pulled at the higher levels within the team. Each driver should pit whenever he wants, with the lead driver in each race standing to benefit only in any stacking situation.

If there are other drivers in the mix, this could compromise McLaren but that is the price you have to pay for having two serious WDC contenders. The alternative is to designate one of them as Number 2 driver, but the *&%$ would really hit the fan then.

This will be interesting.

#333 man

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:24

Excellent performance from Button - silky smooth, mistake-free, very fast and decisive. He really is in that Niki Lauda/John Watson/Alain Prost mould of a classic McLaren driver. Hamilton doesnt really have an answer for it at the moment and reminds me of a frustrated Berger/Mansell in 1990 with their respective situations at McLaren and Ferrari.

Lets see if Hamilton can bounce back.

#334 mash26

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:29

would button be out there if he was losing time on his tyres? no! He would tell the team he is coming in, undercut or not. He has done it before Lewis is the one who is the wimp.

You have a point. You just get the impression that Jenson and Sebastian will make a call when it comes to crunch time. Lewis is more likely to wait for the pitwall to dictate. That hurts him every time.

Edited by mash26, 18 March 2012 - 10:29.


#335 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:30

Lets see if Hamilton can bounce back.

There's nothing to really 'bounce back' from. Lewis just got pole and secured a 3rd place (yes he deserved higher but things conspired against him that were out of his control). I know Lewis isn't dominating Jenson, but let's not forget Jenson is a world champion and frankly I don't think anyone (Alonso, Vettel, etc) could dominate him. Jenson is the more experienced and smoother driver. Lewis is the faster driver. If Lewis can iron out some of these little errors (and that's all they are - little) then he will beat Jenson I'm sure. But it just goes to show what it takes to beat Jenson - you need to be on form all the time.

#336 garoidb

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:31

I posted this in the McLaren thread, but I think it's relevant here:

People just have to accept that McLaren have a very strong driver line-up and that Jenson is a more than competent driver - good enough to challenge Lewis.


Jenson is good enough to win the WDC again and may well do so this year. Lewis will have to perform consistently at his highest level to prevent that.

Can we (McLaren fans) not be pleased that we actually have such a good driver line-up that if one of them has bad luck (like Lewis today) then the other is strong enough to still win. Imagine if we still had Kova as our 2nd driver then we might have seen Vettel win today.

Some of you guys need to get behind the team more and have less driver fanboyisms.


Maybe you didn't intend it, but it sounds like something you would say when Lewis was poised to win, with Jenson running only second, before being struck by some bad luck. Lewis never looked like winning this race

#337 fieraku

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:31

Nope, you can't have it both ways, if lewis was in JB's shoes he'd have had the same advantage, lewis needs to do a better job to be ahead.

No wonder McLaren have one title in 12 years.Next race roles are reversed, but Vettel is still reaping the rewards and another title.Don't get me wrong I love Mac for letting drivers race but hate them for gifting opponents easy points.
Lets hope SV doesn't win by 3.

#338 garoidb

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:33

But it just goes to show what it takes to beat Jenson - you need to be on form all the time.


I think this is what will decide it. There will be races where Lewis will have the upper hand, and perhaps also some for Button. Avoiding unnecessary DNFs and low scores will probably be the crucial factor.

#339 Coral

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:36

There's nothing to really 'bounce back' from. Lewis just got pole and secured a 3rd place (yes he deserved higher but things conspired against him that were out of his control). I know Lewis isn't dominating Jenson, but let's not forget Jenson is a world champion and frankly I don't think anyone (Alonso, Vettel, etc) could dominate him. Jenson is the more experienced and smoother driver. Lewis is the faster driver. If Lewis can iron out some of these little errors (and that's all they are - little) then he will beat Jenson I'm sure. But it just goes to show what it takes to beat Jenson - you need to be on form all the time.


But that's just it, he isn't the faster driver any more. That's what I can't understand, Lewis used to be faster than Jenson but now he's slower. Can anyone come up with a reason for this? Is it just the tyres, or is it psychological? Has Jenson out-psyched Lewis? I wish I knew. This is happening too often now to Lewis...he was slow in Japan and India last year, and he was slow today. Surely he hasn't forgotten how to drive fast? :well:

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#340 hammibal

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:43

Buttons restart was the best ive seen from anyone in a long time. What a pace, he was flying!

Helped a bit by Lewis being behind Vettel

Lewis has not had much luck at Malaysia in the past, so I'm not optimistic about next week's race. I think it will be between Button and Vettel. To be honest I think today's GP was the writing on the wall for Lewis at McLaren. I can't see him re-signing now, and I really don't know where he goes from here.

You have to wonder if they keep compromising his races when running behind Jenson, it cost him second place today

#341 trogggy

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:43

If Jenson and Lewis look like being the main contenders for the WDC (which seems possible), this could become a headache. They will have to compete as if they are not team-mates, with independent strategies, no communication and no strings being pulled at the higher levels within the team. Each driver should pit whenever he wants, with the lead driver in each race standing to benefit only in any stacking situation.

If there are other drivers in the mix, this could compromise McLaren but that is the price you have to pay for having two serious WDC contenders. The alternative is to designate one of them as Number 2 driver, but the *&%$ would really hit the fan then.

This will be interesting.

They don't (hypothetically) have to do any such thing.
If the aim is fairness then they need to have an agreed set of clear rules that they both understand and follow. That can mean no communication and independent strategies (least likely imo), it can mean leader on track pits first, it can mean leader on track has first choice on any lap, it can mean points leader has first dibs, it can be toss a coin or whoever can piss higher up the wall has choice of strategy. As long as they (and their respective engineers) both agree on it.

#342 Sinceref189

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:46

So there we have it 1-0 to Button in the race and 1-0 to Hamilton in qualifying . Mclaren have a great car :up: Lewis was out paced today it happens . Kudos to Jenson he really is on top form if he keeps going on like this then i can see him winning the title . As a hamy fan its hard to see him out paced like this the only positive i can take is that he finished on the podium and he got pole , it could of been a 1-2 if it werent for the safety car but overall a descent weekend for Mr Hamilton.

I woke up late this morning (bloody alarm) so only saw half of the race . Before i turned on the results i had a gut instinct that Button was infront and as the screen showed the results i was right . Now i know that sounds really negative but It just seems Button Has the upper hand again. He just seems to have a pure feel for these tyres its complimenting his driving style and He can sence the operating window , With every turn and brake he knows the limits of all 4 tyres Its intriguing to watch.

Now with Hamilton i can't see this type of sixth sence with these pirelli tyres. His style is not adapting for some reason is it the steering inputs,brake pads or how he turns in to corners. Really his race pace has been affected single lap is on point fine but he cant compliment his driving with these tyres . Lewis and his race engineer(He could do better btw) need to anaylise as to where his management of tyres is going wrong surely they do have telementry to help pinpoint this problem otherwise i can forsee this happening all year :well: . I just hope he can get on top of this because this is his number one weakness.

This is the first race so i hope he can iron this out and fully focus on overall pace . But if he doesn't Button will continue to make him to look average . This is a big year for him . His Contract runs out ? Can he beat Button to a second title ? Has he put his inner Demons to rest ? etc I for one will always support him I just hope he gets his head down and keeps moving forward as a driver and a person . But us Hamy fans have to regard Button as the constant threat ,He has gone to another level I hope Lewis can too  ;)

#343 hammibal

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:47

They don't (hypothetically) have to do any such thing.
If the aim is fairness then they need to have an agreed set of clear rules that they both understand and follow. That can mean no communication and independent strategies (least likely imo), it can mean leader on track pits first, it can mean leader on track has first choice on any lap, it can mean points leader has first dibs, it can be toss a coin or whoever can piss higher up the wall has choice of strategy. As long as they (and their respective engineers) both agree on it.

Well i think Lewis should disgree in order he doesnt have to drive around on tyres that are shot

#344 trogggy

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:51

Well i think Lewis should disgree in order he doesnt have to drive around on tyres that are shot

Disagree with what? What they do now?

What 'rule' would you have?

#345 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:54

Jenson is good enough to win the WDC again and may well do so this year. Lewis will have to perform consistently at his highest level to prevent that.

Agree.

Maybe you didn't intend it, but it sounds like something you would say when Lewis was poised to win, with Jenson running only second, before being struck by some bad luck. Lewis never looked like winning this race

If Lewis had got a clean start I think he would have ran off into the distance (like Button did). You've got to remember that Lewis was on pole and therefore had the advantage at the start. He didn't get a good start and thankfully (from a McLaren fans perspective) we had Jenson there to capitalise.

I worded it like that just because of how this race panned out. But the point can be applied either way. IMO McLaren have the strongest driver line-up on the grid that means that if one driver messes up or is caught out by something like a SC (as happened with Lewis today) the other will more than likely be there or there abouts to capitalise and more importantly prevent rival teams and drivers from capitalising as much. Compare that with Ferrari for example who have a very unbalanced driver line-up.

#346 garoidb

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:56

They don't (hypothetically) have to do any such thing.
If the aim is fairness then they need to have an agreed set of clear rules that they both understand and follow. That can mean no communication and independent strategies (least likely imo), it can mean leader on track pits first, it can mean leader on track has first choice on any lap, it can mean points leader has first dibs, it can be toss a coin or whoever can piss higher up the wall has choice of strategy. As long as they (and their respective engineers) both agree on it.


I think the scenario (obviously hypothetical) that I outlined is the way things would naturally develop. By no communication, I meant lap-by-lap during the race. Hence Button would not know if Lewis was planning to pit on any given lap, and vice versa (with the caveat that they need to avoid stacking). So, in today's race Lewis could have just pitted once he saw that Button had not. As far as all parties agreeing on something, I think "no holds barred" is the more likely situation (but only in a case where they are the main two contenders). This was the case for Prost-Senna, Mansell-Piquet, and as far as I could see, for Alonso-Hamilton in 07.

#347 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:56

I think this is what will decide it. There will be races where Lewis will have the upper hand, and perhaps also some for Button. Avoiding unnecessary DNFs and low scores will probably be the crucial factor.

Exactly. IMO Lewis is the quicker driver, but you need consistency in a championship battle and that is something that Button brings to the table. It will be close between the two.

#348 trogggy

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:00

I think the scenario (obviously hypothetical) that I outlined is the way things would naturally develop. By no communication, I meant lap-by-lap during the race. Hence Button would not know if Lewis was planning to pit on any given lap, and vice versa (with the caveat that they need to avoid stacking). So, in today's race Lewis could have just pitted once he saw that Button had not. As far as all parties agreeing on something, I think "no holds barred" is the more likely situation (but only in a case where they are the main two contenders). This was the case for Prost-Senna, Mansell-Piquet, and as far as I could see, for Alonso-Hamilton in 07.

It's just one possibility. One of several. And would mean a change from what happens now. Discuss it as a possibility by all means, but not as the almost inevitable outcome.


#349 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:00

But that's just it, he isn't the faster driver any more. That's what I can't understand, Lewis used to be faster than Jenson but now he's slower. Can anyone come up with a reason for this? Is it just the tyres, or is it psychological? Has Jenson out-psyched Lewis? I wish I knew. This is happening too often now to Lewis...he was slow in Japan and India last year, and he was slow today. Surely he hasn't forgotten how to drive fast? :well:

That's just rubbish. You only have to look back to Saturday to see how fast Lewis is.

#350 fieraku

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:01

They don't (hypothetically) have to do any such thing.
If the aim is fairness then they need to have an agreed set of clear rules that they both understand and follow. That can mean no communication and independent strategies (least likely imo), it can mean leader on track pits first, it can mean leader on track has first choice on any lap, it can mean points leader has first dibs, it can be toss a coin or whoever can piss higher up the wall has choice of strategy. As long as they (and their respective engineers) both agree on it.


Anything mate,but give Horner that grin.