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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#3451 MinT

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:21

Interesting that McLaren put Button on the soft mid race and his pace drops off - but the reaction here is it's Button whose slow. Yet every other week we have the tin foil hat brigade blaming the team for bad strategy when it goes against Hami.....double standards...surely not ;)

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#3452 dave12

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:33

5:0 for Hamilton. He was better in all 5 races, without the screw ups he would have finished ahead ina all of them.

:rotfl: :rolleyes:

#3453 Kvothe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:44

Interesting that McLaren put Button on the soft mid race and his pace drops off - but the reaction here is it's Button whose slow. Yet every other week we have the tin foil hat brigade blaming the team for bad strategy when it goes against Hami.....double standards...surely not ;)


Button himself said on the BBC he was just slow, and that he needed to figure out why, and that a two stop wouldn't have worked for him. He was on options on the second stint, presumably to combat the lack of pace he was experiencing.

Edited by Kvothe, 13 May 2012 - 15:58.


#3454 Masenco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:44

:rotfl: :rolleyes:


I didn't find the original poster's post that ridiculous to receive a response like that :well:
If you disagree maybe you should have discussion about it, this is the Jenson vs Lewis thread afterall...


#3455 dave12

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:51

I didn't find the original poster's post that ridiculous to receive a response like that :well:
If you disagree maybe you should have discussion about it, this is the Jenson vs Lewis thread afterall...

Why? No doubt Lewis been better at some of the race's but to give Lewis all 5 race's come on.

#3456 PretentiousBread

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:59

I would split the points for the race.

Yes, technically, Hamilton did finish ahead of Button on the track, he only did so well on those tires because of everything Button has taught him about saving tires. Without Button, Hamilton would have had to take 5 stops today, so it is only fair to share points.

Yet again Hamilton getting all the benefit from Button's superior and smoother race craft.


Surely a joke?

#3457 Masenco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:00

Why? No doubt Lewis been better at some of the race's but to give Lewis all 5 race's come on.


I didn't say I necessarily agreed with him lol, but it's a debatable point.
It can be argued that discounting team errors for both drivers, Lewis could have beaten Jenson in every race.
Point is, it's not a ridiculous statement, of course you can disagree, but it's a valid viewpoint.

#3458 robefc

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:01

I didn't say I necessarily agreed with him lol, but it's a debatable point.
It can be argued that discounting team errors for both drivers, Lewis could have beaten Jenson in every race.
Point is, it's not a ridiculous statement, of course you can disagree, but it's a valid viewpoint.


3-1 to Lewis with one draw (China) for me.

#3459 dave12

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:02

Lewis was driving like a beast today such a shame he had to start from the back.

Jenson was just plain slow all weekend one to forget.

Lewis 1
Jenson -1

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#3460 learningtobelost

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:05

Seeing the driver comparison chart provided by Anti above looks like once again there wasn't much between them.


JB was on a 3 stopper, which should have allowed him to extract more pace from the tyres. The fact that the pace between them was so close goes to highlight how much Jenson was struggling.

#3461 dave12

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:15

I didn't say I necessarily agreed with him lol, but it's a debatable point.
It can be argued that discounting team errors for both drivers, Lewis could have beaten Jenson in every race.
Point is, it's not a ridiculous statement, of course you can disagree, but it's a valid viewpoint.

True but its been done to death.

#3462 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:19

Lewis was driving like a beast today such a shame he had to start from the back.

Jenson was just plain slow all weekend one to forget.

Lewis 1
Jenson -1


He was good but a beast? Let the exaggeration be done by the fan boys. He was stuck quite a while behind third grade Massa, and soundly beaten by Vettel. Lewis wins over Button, but it was nothing special.

#3463 Boxerevo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:20

I understand the point,but even with the problem on the start on Australia,i think Jeson was the best on that race.

But i am happy Hamilton is doing better this year.

#3464 race addicted

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:21

.

Edit: Seeing the driver comparison chart provided by Anti above looks like once again there wasn't much between them. Maybe it's the fact that Lewis came from dead last to finish ahead of his team mate that makes it look like Jenson performed really badly. It could be the difference in strategy. Either way weekend goes to Lewis.


Yes, it could be difference in strategy.

Saying anything else, is failing to understand that Hamilton was two-stopping, and was around 14-15 seconds behind already on lap four.



#3465 Tstag

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:21

All this is a bit silly. Button had a bad race Hamilton had an exceptional one.

That said Hamilton produce miracles today with those tyres. On today's performance alone he is the best driver in F1 at looking after tyres. but this is 1 race.

I think it's just a shame he didn't start in 6 th

#3466 hammibal

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:22

Cmon guys...stop the BS.. this is the first race of the year that Lewis was clearly faster than Jason.. in Australia JB was the faster driver.. and they were sort of equal in the other races ! I think JB has had a great year so far.. minus this race.. but i still prefer LH for moments of brilliance such as this race !!

You think that Jenson was the equal of Lewis in Malaysia?

Hmm, there's always gloating. Even when JB beats Hamilton there is spades of it, although it only tends to come from one or two JB fans and the rest from the team of Hamilton critics who tend to follow him around.

I'm sat here cupping me ear and wondering why they're so quiet :)

#3467 jrg19

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:22

He was good but a beast? Let the exaggeration be done by the fan boys. He was stuck quite a while behind third grade Massa, and soundly beaten by Vettel. Lewis wins over Button, but it was nothing special.


Once again no grace on you part, Lewis came from 24th on the grid with the harder strategy to pull off.

Embarrassment as always.

#3468 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:24

Once again no grace on you part, Lewis came from 24th on the grid with the harder strategy to pull off.

Embarrassment as always.


As i said it was good but I let the hyping to you. :)

#3469 dave12

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:25

He was good but a beast? Let the exaggeration be done by the fan boys. He was stuck quite a while behind third grade Massa, and soundly beaten by Vettel. Lewis wins over Button, but it was nothing special.

Maybe it was a bit but compared to Jenson he was.

#3470 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:26

As i said it was good but I let the hyping to you. :)


And the hyping of Vettel, I think the H word has already being mentioned today.

McLaren need to get the setups sorted quickly

#3471 PretentiousBread

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:28

As PretentiousBread pointed out, it might have done Jenson good to have done one of the testing days at Mugello, as all his whinging, moaning and bitching at least would have given the engineers a decent set of data points to work with. :smoking:

The new higher nose would theoretically give the exhaust blown rear end cleaner air to work with, thus potentially producing more rear downforce at high speeds than the previous lower nose (witness the stability of Lewis' McLaren through the long uphill turn 3 right hander which is taken full throttle). And since Barcelona is very much rear left traction limited, and since Jenson clearly prefers a stable rear end under breaking and corner entry, there is a possibility that by going for a setup designed around a more stable rear end under braking, Jenson set himself up for the additional understeer under full power at 120+ km/h where the exhaust gasses give the biggest boost to rear downforce, thus moving the aero pressure balance rearwards. Offsetting that understeer by adding more front wing would move him away from his ideal corner entry preference of a stable rear, as the exhaust is not blowing much when off the throttle and thus not offsetting the front wing aero pressure bias which gets even larger as the front wing moves closer to the ground (and thus produces more downforce) as the car pitches forward under the braking induced weight shift. This coupled with not quite getting the tyres into their working window could explain his corner entry oversteer/high speed understeer conundrum.

Lewis on the other hand has no issues with the car being loose on corner entry, so he likely just made sure that it had a decent balance in the high speed stuff and used his natural style to keep the tyre temperatures in the correct window and just worked with the corner entry oversteer instead of against it. On top of that, he contained himself and attacked when it made sense and avoided putting too much thermal energy into his tyres when he didn't have an ideal opportunity to overtake.

I'd say that whatever Didier Coton is doing is clearly working for Lewis and is allowing Lewis to focus on getting the best out of himself and the car. It must have felt good to send a jab in Button's direction, but I'm not sure it is necessarily a good sign. Time will tell, I suppose.

And just to be clear: I think Lewis did an absolutely brilliant job this weekend, no question about it, so good on him. Apart from human error -- pressing the '-' button instead of the '+' button on the fuel rig for 6 seconds prior to Lewis' Q3 run -- he and his team clearly did a much better job than Button's side of the garage in terms of setup. That flatspot that Jenson gave his hard tyres was symptomatic of a weekend where he was simply slightly off kilter. He should be able to do better, provided that he doesn't let his recent string of disappointments get to him.


I don't remember saying anything about this at all.


#3472 Lokt

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:34

As i said it was good but I let the hyping to you. :)


Just a sample of your posts today:

"It was a fight between a rocketship car like the mclaren and a slow car like the red bull, and Vettel won in style, hands down."

"Webber was lapped. Vettel with all his brilliance managed to solve something, and even overtook Hamilton in a majestic way. Thats how good Vettel is. I hope they give him a better car next week."

"Classic Vettel. Look at where Massa ended. Smart money has to be on Vettel for winning the title?

"Most entertaining driver in F1 at this moment thats for sure."

"Godlike drive by Vettel. Vintage. Especially how he demolished Hamilton was a treat. Fantastic!! Go for the third title!!"

"Just look at the double world champion. Rosberg nailed. Vettel clearly the most entertaining driver in F1."

"OH LOOK AT THAT!! VINTAGE VETTEL!! BYE BYE HAMILTON!!!"

And the list goes on.... Pot, meet Kettle. :wave:

Edited by Lokt, 13 May 2012 - 16:35.


#3473 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:38

I cant wait for Benson and Weaver to report...

#3474 PretentiousBread

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:40

Just a sample of your posts today:

"It was a fight between a rocketship car like the mclaren and a slow car like the red bull, and Vettel won in style, hands down."

"Webber was lapped. Vettel with all his brilliance managed to solve something, and even overtook Hamilton in a majestic way. Thats how good Vettel is. I hope they give him a better car next week."

"Classic Vettel. Look at where Massa ended. Smart money has to be on Vettel for winning the title?

"Most entertaining driver in F1 at this moment thats for sure."

"Godlike drive by Vettel. Vintage. Especially how he demolished Hamilton was a treat. Fantastic!! Go for the third title!!"

"Just look at the double world champion. Rosberg nailed. Vettel clearly the most entertaining driver in F1."

"OH LOOK AT THAT!! VINTAGE VETTEL!! BYE BYE HAMILTON!!!"

And the list goes on.... Pot, meet Kettle. :wave:


That's it, TheBunk is now officially on my ignore list. Think the only thing we've ever agreed on is that The Wire is a great show.


#3475 Lokt

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:41

I cant wait for Benson and Weaver to report...


I canĀ“t wait to see what your prediction is for next race weekend seeing your prediction in the Hamilton VS Button match this weekend wasn't spot on... to say the least.

#3476 f1fastestlap

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:41

That's it, TheBunk is now officially on my ignore list. Think the only thing we've ever agreed on is that The Wire is a great show.

What took you so long?... :cool:

#3477 gricey1981

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:41

I cant wait for Benson and Weaver to report...


wasnt it you that originally said you worked for Red BUll.

then swiftly denied it. :rotfl:

#3478 Coops3

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:43

He was good but a beast? Let the exaggeration be done by the fan boys. He was stuck quite a while behind third grade Massa, and soundly beaten by Vettel. Lewis wins over Button, but it was nothing special.


Objective analysis as always I see.

Not.

#3479 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:44

Once again no grace on you part, Lewis came from 24th on the grid with the harder strategy to pull off.

Embarrassment as always.


Don't feed him.


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#3480 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:45

wasnt it you that originally said you worked for Red BUll.

then swiftly denied it. :rotfl:


It might be true, looking at their tweat earlier, a lack of class is something they share

#3481 Kvothe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:47

It might be true, looking at their tweat earlier, a lack of class is something they share


What tweet?

#3482 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:48

As I said, a godawful race from Button. Lewis was better than him. I dont know what you want me to say more than that. I suggest you discuss that, and not me, in line with house rules and stuff.

#3483 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:49

What tweet?


Some one mentioned a tweet earlier. McLaren asked Redbull to turn the music down blasting from their garage, they tweated, Why? they won't hear it from the back of the grid.

#3484 robefc

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:50

What tweet?


red bull spy tweeted that they'd been asked to turn down the music by macca and a response was

'why do they care about the music? They won't be able to hear it from the back of the grid'

or something along those lines, not sure if just from a follower or from someone at red bull



I thought it was hilarious

Edited by robefc, 13 May 2012 - 16:50.


#3485 bauss

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:52


Last time Button had this sort of performance was in Nurburgring 2011.....

that was also a weekend where Mclaren brought a raft of updates.

I'm sure JB will bounce back to a decent level of performance in Monaco and onwards..

I have little doubt Lewis would have won today had he started on pole. He always seems to be quick here (just bad luck). At worst, he would have scrapped Nurburgring 2011 style with Maldonado and Alonso b4 coming out on top, most likely he'd build a decent gap and control things.

With that said, still a very very good job all weekend. If Mclaren can surprise us and stop with the comical errors, he is looking like the best bet for the WDC.

He made a big statement that he is now truly in a good head space today. What happened yesterday is enough to weaken any grown man's fortitude (given the back drop of team cockups he has already suffered this season), but big kudos to him to respond in such a controlled aggressive manner like yesterday never happened... bodes well for the future.

As for this scorecard....the better performer so far this season is very undeniable though I very much still hate the fact that we have to judge their racing on these tires.




#3486 TeamMacca

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:53

He was good but a beast? Let the exaggeration be done by the fan boys. He was stuck quite a while behind third grade Massa, and soundly beaten by Vettel. Lewis wins over Button, but it was nothing special.


Hahahahahahahaha, bless your little cotton socks.

#3487 OO7

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:53

As i said it was good but I let the hyping to you. :)

Your comment from the Vettel thread:
'Godlike drive by Vettel. Vintage. Especially how he demolished Hamilton was a treat. Fantastic!! Go for the third title!!'

Edited by Obi Offiah, 13 May 2012 - 16:55.


#3488 fieraku

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:54

Just a sample of your posts today:

"It was a fight between a rocketship car like the mclaren and a slow car like the red bull, and Vettel won in style, hands down."

"Webber was lapped. Vettel with all his brilliance managed to solve something, and even overtook Hamilton in a majestic way. Thats how good Vettel is. I hope they give him a better car next week."

"Classic Vettel. Look at where Massa ended. Smart money has to be on Vettel for winning the title?

"Most entertaining driver in F1 at this moment thats for sure."

"Godlike drive by Vettel. Vintage. Especially how he demolished Hamilton was a treat. Fantastic!! Go for the third title!!"

"Just look at the double world champion. Rosberg nailed. Vettel clearly the most entertaining driver in F1."

"OH LOOK AT THAT!! VINTAGE VETTEL!! BYE BYE HAMILTON!!!"

And the list goes on.... Pot, meet Kettle. :wave:


If ya'll havent yet figured his agenda then :confused: Stop feeding him and he'll quietly dissolve.

#3489 hammibal

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:54

Edit: Seeing the driver comparison chart provided by Anti above looks like once again there wasn't much between them. Maybe it's the fact that Lewis came from dead last to finish ahead of his team mate that makes it look like Jenson performed really badly. It could be the difference in strategy. Either way weekend goes to Lewis.

I'm guessing you dont understand how it all works

Interesting that McLaren put Button on the soft mid race and his pace drops off - but the reaction here is it's Button whose slow. Yet every other week we have the tin foil hat brigade blaming the team for bad strategy when it goes against Hami.....double standards...surely not ;)

Jenson was slow whatever tyres he put on the car, the soft option was perhaps a gamble

He was good but a beast? Let the exaggeration be done by the fan boys. He was stuck quite a while behind third grade Massa, and soundly beaten by Vettel. Lewis wins over Button, but it was nothing special.

Vettel pitted 7 laps later than Lewis, look at Kimi's pace at the end, he pitted 4 laps later than Alonso and 7 laps later than Maldonado, do you understand?

Do you think Vettel would have beat Lewis without his penalty?


#3490 P123

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:55

I'd say it's abou time Bunk spared us with his empty complaints, shouting fanboy at everybody, especially when he comes out with similar rhetoric himself, as evidenced above.

#3491 Kvothe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:56

@Anomander and Robefc
Thanks :up: didn't catch that one.

#3492 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:58

Button simply has to do better with this car. Hamilton showed it probably wouldv been unbeatable if it started from pole. Yet Button sank very deep with it.

#3493 PARAZAR

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:16

I'm guessing you dont understand how it all works


Jenson was slow whatever tyres he put on the car, the soft option was perhaps a gamble


Vettel pitted 7 laps later than Lewis, look at Kimi's pace at the end, he pitted 4 laps later than Alonso and 7 laps later than Maldonado, do you understand?

Do you think Vettel would have beat Lewis without his penalty?



It could be the difference in strategy. I'm not english by the way. First stint what tires where they on?



#3494 hammibal

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:22

Just a sample of your posts today:

"It was a fight between a rocketship car like the mclaren and a slow car like the red bull, and Vettel won in style, hands down."

"Webber was lapped. Vettel with all his brilliance managed to solve something, and even overtook Hamilton in a majestic way. Thats how good Vettel is. I hope they give him a better car next week."

"Classic Vettel. Look at where Massa ended. Smart money has to be on Vettel for winning the title?

"Most entertaining driver in F1 at this moment thats for sure."

"Godlike drive by Vettel. Vintage. Especially how he demolished Hamilton was a treat. Fantastic!! Go for the third title!!"

"Just look at the double world champion. Rosberg nailed. Vettel clearly the most entertaining driver in F1."

"OH LOOK AT THAT!! VINTAGE VETTEL!! BYE BYE HAMILTON!!!"

And the list goes on.... Pot, meet Kettle. :wave:

Strange words from a fan of Jenson :drunk:


#3495 velgajski1

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:33

Bunk is one the rare people in this BB that made it to my filter, please don't quote him too much :)

#3496 ImDDAA

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:38

That's it, TheBunk is now officially on my ignore list. Think the only thing we've ever agreed on is that The Wire is a great show.


Yup, complete troll, only turns up to needle other posters like a child.

#3497 hammibal

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:43

Button simply has to do better with this car. Hamilton showed it probably wouldv been unbeatable if it started from pole. Yet Button sank very deep with it.

Ok i can't disagree with that

It could be the difference in strategy. I'm not english by the way. First stint what tires where they on?

They started on the same tyres, in fact all the grid did, interesting take that Lewis might have had the better strategy starting from the back of the grid and all :drunk:

#3498 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:47

I'd say it's abou time Bunk spared us with his empty complaints, shouting fanboy at everybody, especially when he comes out with similar rhetoric himself, as evidenced above.


The difference is I dont brand anyone a troll if he doesnt join me in my praises of Vettel. Here in this thread, that seems to be the case. Hamilton was good but thats it imo.

#3499 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:49

The difference is I dont brand anyone a troll if he doesnt join me in my praises of Vettel. Here in this thread, that seems to be the case. Hamilton was good but thats it imo.


Nope you just shout Fanboy at anyone who gives Lewis praise and doesn't listern to your tripe about him.

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#3500 TheBunk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:52

Nope you just shout Fanboy at anyone who gives Lewis praise and doesn't listern to your tripe about him.


No I didnt. You can all hype Hamilton to heaven, thats fine with me. I was attacked because I didnt do that. But you have difficulty reading, I know.