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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard


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#3651 robefc

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:51

The really interesting indications always happen on track, not in the press. At least twice this season (Melbourne and Malaysia) LH appeared to chose a safe podium over the win-or-bust approach of former years, I reckon last sunday he was spared the safe/risky choice by Massa getting a timely penalty. That might benefit him in WDC battles, but OTOH will we see wins like China 2011 again?


I'm not sure what he could have done in Malaysia or Melbourne to improve his position?

I don't think he had the pace to challenge Vettel in Oz and in Malaysia he was slower than both the cars in front of him...

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#3652 as65p

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:53

Oh really, so a driver happy to cruise and settle for a position will get on the blower to his race engineer asking where he can find more time. Your post seems quite short sighted. People need to pay attention to the information and facts available to help form an informed opinion.


What people (drivers) say aren't facts. Indications, pieces of the puzzle, yes. But taking them words at face value, that's what I'd call short sighted. Indeed, you're example is a good one - you really think it would never happen that a driver, say, experiencing fatigue tries to hide that from his team, maybe by giving the opposite impression on the radio? You think such doesn't happen in racing? Think again, I'd say.

Whatever, I'm aware for ages that this is a futile discussion. People just love to kling to their heros words, even with contrary (treal) facts right before their eyes.

#3653 maverick69

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:56

What people (drivers) say aren't facts. Indications, pieces of the puzzle, yes. But taking them words at face value, that's what I'd call short sighted. Indeed, you're example is a good one - you really think it would never happen that a driver, say, experiencing fatigue tries to hide that from his team, maybe by giving the opposite impression on the radio? You think such doesn't happen in racing? Think again, I'd say.

Whatever, I'm aware for ages that this is a futile discussion. People just love to kling to their heros words, even with contrary (treal) facts right before their eyes.


What? Like the 2007 WDC table for example? :lol:


#3654 inca_roads

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:59

Just one little perspective point:

Button clearly needs to lean on these tyres a bit harder, or in a different way, to get them to work. That's Button's job to do/problem to deal with.

Before Barcelona a lot of Lewis fans were complaining that the tyres didn't allow him to do his stuff. Why is the first example Button's problem, yet the second one is Pirelli's fault?

The only difference is where you stand when you look a it. I believe both examples are primarily down to the drivers.


Although I see your point, I do see a difference in the two. One is the case of a driver being unable to extract the maximum (or thereabouts, say) single lap performance from the tyres, the other is a driver being able to do so, but then hampered by the fact that doing so lap after lap will kill them and result in a huge blow to his performance. I just don't see "not being able to go fast enough" and "able to go fast enough but it won't do you any good" in motor racing as equal tyre-related hinderance to a driver. One shouldn't be much of a hinderance at all, for me. I do agree though that it should not be an excuse for either driver in either circumstance, as it's the same for everybody, and you have got to do the best with what's available.

#3655 as65p

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:03

I'm not sure what he could have done in Malaysia or Melbourne to improve his position?

I don't think he had the pace to challenge Vettel in Oz and in Malaysia he was slower than both the cars in front of him...


That get's us nowhere. Of course if you assume that he performs to 100 percent of his ability each and every lap there's nothing to discuss, where he finishes is always the maximum, determined by factors outside the drivers control.



#3656 as65p

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:07

What? Like the 2007 WDC table for example? :lol:


Congrats. You won todays rush to bring up 2007, making it like a dozen such wins in a row for Hamilton fans. :up: :p

That doing so you missed the point of the discussion by a country mile shouldn't really bother you, it's pretty common. :wave:



#3657 maverick69

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:08

Congrats. You won todays rush to bring up 2007, making it like a dozen such wins in a row for Hamilton fans. :up: :p

That doing so you missed the point of the discussion by a country mile shouldn't really bother you, it's pretty common. :wave:


):




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#3658 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:14

What people (drivers) say aren't facts. Indications, pieces of the puzzle, yes. But taking them words at face value, that's what I'd call short sighted. Indeed, you're example is a good one - you really think it would never happen that a driver, say, experiencing fatigue tries to hide that from his team, maybe by giving the opposite impression on the radio? You think such doesn't happen in racing? Think again, I'd say.

Whatever, I'm aware for ages that this is a futile discussion. People just love to kling to their heros words, even with contrary (treal) facts right before their eyes.

:lol: Sure. 2012 with cars (in race trim) that are the least demanding to drive for a very long time coupled with the fact that its raining. Being objective is looking at the big picture, the radio conversations, timing, on-board & off-board feed, driver interviews, team interviews etc. Even if we ignore Malaysia, what makes you think Jenson simply wasn't quicker in Aus. Is it because Lewis didn't crash the car to illustrate he was pushing?

I think you know of a quote by Alonso, where he mentioned something to the effect that in Minardi there were times where he would drive flat-out, making no mistakes driving incredibly well get 100% out of the car and know one outside the team (media) bats an eyelid or takes much notice. Then at Renault he could cruise at 80%, win by a mile and people would be hailing it as one of the greatest drives and wins. It seems to me that you are falling into this trap.

#3659 PNSD

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:49

JB got schooled this weekend, majorly.

One point people have failed to mention is that Lewis arguably was worse off after FP2 yet he, and his team sorted the car and he got the job done.

This tends to be one of Button's strengths, more often than not he is unhappy on Friday, then sorts the car for Saturday. This time Lewis bettered him in that respect, and of course MASSIVELY out raced him.

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#3660 robefc

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:49

That get's us nowhere. Of course if you assume that he performs to 100 percent of his ability each and every lap there's nothing to discuss, where he finishes is always the maximum, determined by factors outside the drivers control.


Well you stated he appeared to settle for a safe podium, which implies he had another option.

I'm trying to understand why you think that.

#3661 P123

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:52

That get's us nowhere. Of course if you assume that he performs to 100 percent of his ability each and every lap there's nothing to discuss, where he finishes is always the maximum, determined by factors outside the drivers control.


In Oz he was slower than JB, and looked miserable afterwards so I don't think he was in the mindset of settling for a nice points finish in that race. In Malaysia he wasn't really anywhere near anybody for most of the race. Perhaps he settled for a safe third but I doubt it considering what was ahead on track was a Sauber and a Ferrari.... easy pickings at that point of the season in normal circumstances.

#3662 P123

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 17:56

JB got schooled this weekend, majorly.

One point people have failed to mention is that Lewis arguably was worse off after FP2 yet he, and his team sorted the car and he got the job done.

This tends to be one of Button's strengths, more often than not he is unhappy on Friday, then sorts the car for Saturday. This time Lewis bettered him in that respect, and of course MASSIVELY out raced him.


I think the problem for JB was the change to the brake manufacturer normally used by Hamilton in order to solve the issues he was having getting temp into the hards. JB did look very good on the softer option tyre on Friday, but on the long runs he couldn't match LH for pace on the harder tyre. LH sorted his soft tyre issues; JB couldn't sort his hard tyre issues. Perhaps shows that the McLaren has a particularly narrow setup window.

Edited by P123, 15 May 2012 - 17:57.


#3663 PEW

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 18:00

Is Andy Latham allowed to stay now?

#3664 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 18:02

Is Andy Latham allowed to stay now?

:confused: I didn't here anything about him leaving.

#3665 hammibal

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 18:38

I don't think people can change like that, from spoiled brat to examplary teamplayer in the space of 3 months or so. No question that so far this season he's making all the right noises at the right times, but the reason for that is most likely that he get's better advice these days, be it from his father or his management. As long as he can keep the discipline to follow that, it's all that's needed, yet I wouldn't bet on the 2011 LH not surfacing again at some point, depending on how the WDC battle develops.

Of course you'd expect me to say that. ;)

Yes we would

#3666 P123

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 18:43

How do you think Hamilton manages to drive with less errors in 2012 in comparable difficult circumstances that would see him make mistakes in 2011? That's what I'm trying to understand. I would have thought the easiest explanation would be that he takes less risks while driving, in general and especially in combat (Perez in Melbourne, Massa). To me it logically follows that he runs less risk of a DNF but at the same time ocassionally loses laptime. Which tallies pretty well with his results so far in 2012, good consistency yet no miracle wins, but no brainfades either.


All fairly logical that he has taken a less reckless approach, learned some patience, adopted better judgement in wheel to wheel combat; although I don't see any scope for miracle wins if you throw all of that out the window as he did in 2011. I guess if he's not crashing then he's not trying, which is a novel way to look at it.

#3667 tifosiMac

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 18:48

All fairly logical that he has taken a less reckless approach, learned some patience, adopted better judgement in wheel to wheel combat; although I don't see any scope for miracle wins if you throw all of that out the window as he did in 2011. I guess if he's not crashing then he's not trying, which is a novel way to look at it.

Unless of course you take into consideration his races this year where he hasn't crashed and has quite blatantly been trying very hard. I am thoroughly impressed so far.

#3668 as65p

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 18:51

Yes we would


Thanks for popping in, your Highness. :)

#3669 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:00

I guess if he's not crashing then he's not trying, which is a novel way to look at it.

This is exactly the point I made P123 regarding his pace in Aus, he wasn't pushing because he didn't crash.

#3670 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:00

How do you think Hamilton manages to drive with less errors in 2012 in comparable difficult circumstances that would see him make mistakes in 2011? That's what I'm trying to understand. I would have thought the easiest explanation would be that he takes less risks while driving, in general and especially in combat (Perez in Melbourne, Massa). To me it logically follows that he runs less risk of a DNF but at the same time ocassionally loses laptime. Which tallies pretty well with his results so far in 2012, good consistency yet no miracle wins, but no brainfades either.

Only that something in that logic of mine is apparently trolling, figure it out! :D



That's right, Hamilton is taking the safe route by finishing the race and being content with the points he was able to collect. Not dnf'ing is the cornerstone of Hamilton's plan this season imo. And this is basically what he has stated publicly so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

LH: "I’d love to win every race, it’s more important to be in a good points-scoring position at every race…"

Of course Spain was different because he had nothing to loose but it was interesting that he hesitated when confronted with Massa. He would probably still be cruising behind FM if not for that well timed penalty!

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 15 May 2012 - 19:13.


#3671 as65p

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:02

All fairly logical that he has taken a less reckless approach, learned some patience, adopted better judgement in wheel to wheel combat; although I don't see any scope for miracle wins if you throw all of that out the window as he did in 2011. I guess if he's not crashing then he's not trying, which is a novel way to look at it.


You guessed too much, but I guess that's on purpose, isn't it? :D

What I'm really saying is that if he's spending laps behind Perez and Massa he's not trying (as desperately) as he did last year. Which has obvious benefits but equally obvious caveats. Like being stuck behind Perez or Massa, to name a random one.

For years I listened how exciting it is that Hamilton never settles behind an opponent, let alone one in a slower car, but always attacks, taking no prisoners whatsoever. Now apparently it's equally exciting when he takes his time, waiting for a safe opportunity. And on top of that, it apparently doesn't even affect his finishing position, which I'm told is still maximized each and every race.

Great stuff! :p

#3672 tifosiMac

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:02

Of course Spain was different because he had nothing to loose but it was interesting that he hesitated when confronted with Massa. He would probably still be cruising behind FM if not for that well timed penalty.

After some of the idiotic moves Massa pulled on Lewis last season, I can fully understand why he would be hesitant. This approach from Lewis is very much a positive rather than a negative and its being acknowledged widely.

#3673 PNSD

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:09

Is Andy Latham allowed to stay now?


LOL! The flak has moved to Martin's side now.

Just wait another few races when Lewis has a setup issue and it will be all about how the team are in it to sabotage Lewis and give Jenson the better engineer blah blah

#3674 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:10

After some of the idiotic moves Massa pulled on Lewis last season, I can fully understand why he would be hesitant. This approach from Lewis is very much a positive rather than a negative and its being acknowledged widely.



You are right.

As I have said Lewis's new point collecting/safe strategy is working for him so far keeping him in touch with the leaders. Although 2012 Lewis's start is not a good as 2011 Lewis who had 24 more points after five races.

This is a good strategy in a year with no dominant team/driver. It won't work if say Vettel or Alonso start to win consistently. Old aggressive Hamilton will have to return and perhaps the dnf's as well.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 15 May 2012 - 19:30.


#3675 hammibal

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:14

How do you think Hamilton manages to drive with less errors in 2012 in comparable difficult circumstances that would see him make mistakes in 2011? That's what I'm trying to understand. I would have thought the easiest explanation would be that he takes less risks while driving, in general and especially in combat (Perez in Melbourne, Massa). To me it logically follows that he runs less risk of a DNF but at the same time ocassionally loses laptime. Which tallies pretty well with his results so far in 2012, good consistency yet no miracle wins, but no brainfades either.

Only that something in that logic of mine is apparently trolling, figure it out! :D

It sounds like you dont think he can drive on the limit without making a mistake

#3676 hammibal

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:28

That's right, Hamilton is taking the safe route by finishing the race and being content with the points he was able to collect. Not dnf'ing is the cornerstone of Hamilton's plan this season imo. And this is basically what he has stated publicly so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

LH: "I’d love to win every race, it’s more important to be in a good points-scoring position at every race…"

Of course Spain was different because he had nothing to loose but it was interesting that he hesitated when confronted with Massa. He would probably still be cruising behind FM if not for that well timed penalty!

Well we know the score with Massa, Smedley to Massa, "lets destroy Hamilton's race"

You guessed too much, but I guess that's on purpose, isn't it? :D

What I'm really saying is that if he's spending laps behind Perez and Massa he's not trying (as desperately) as he did last year. Which has obvious benefits but equally obvious caveats. Like being stuck behind Perez or Massa, to name a random one.

For years I listened how exciting it is that Hamilton never settles behind an opponent, let alone one in a slower car, but always attacks, taking no prisoners whatsoever. Now apparently it's equally exciting when he takes his time, waiting for a safe opportunity. And on top of that, it apparently doesn't even affect his finishing position, which I'm told is still maximized each and every race.

Great stuff! :p

Lewis was on a 2 stop strategy, Massa 3, tyres had to be looked after

as65p doesn't hate Hamilton, he loves him and is just jealous he isn't at Ferrari yet! :)
thats from the where should Hamilton go thread.

I think there's a need to get rid of the demons of 2007 ;)

#3677 as65p

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:32

Lewis was on a 2 stop strategy, Massa 3, tyres had to be looked after


There are always reasons excuses. Hamilton was once hailed for needing less of them.

I think there's a need to get rid of the demons of 2007 ;)


You're late today with that stuff. :wave:

#3678 TheBunk

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:48

You guessed too much, but I guess that's on purpose, isn't it? :D

What I'm really saying is that if he's spending laps behind Perez and Massa he's not trying (as desperately) as he did last year. Which has obvious benefits but equally obvious caveats. Like being stuck behind Perez or Massa, to name a random one.

For years I listened how exciting it is that Hamilton never settles behind an opponent, let alone one in a slower car, but always attacks, taking no prisoners whatsoever. Now apparently it's equally exciting when he takes his time, waiting for a safe opportunity. And on top of that, it apparently doesn't even affect his finishing position, which I'm told is still maximized each and every race.

Great stuff! :p

:up:

#3679 tifosiMac

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:49

You acknowledge my right to not like Hamilton but are surprised I don't talk favourably about him (which I do anyway from time to time, just nobody notices, but that's another story)? :drunk:

The boy who cried 'wolf' also complained when nobody noticed his true intentions on one occasion too. Thats the problem. When someone spends most of their time being negative without foundation, the one time they are complimentary it will often slip under the radar. I've heard you say you are often complimentary about Hamilton but am yet to witness it.

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#3680 hammibal

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:49

There are always reasons excuses. Hamilton was once hailed for needing less of them.



You're late today with that stuff. :wave:

I'm surprised you know so little of the Pirelli tyres

It seems perhaps to still be somewhat of an issue, i'm far more interested in 2012 and am happy with how Lewis is performing he seems to be driving far more intelligently this year given the limitations of the tyres

#3681 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:34

How do you think Hamilton manages to drive with less errors in 2012 in comparable difficult circumstances that would see him make mistakes in 2011? That's what I'm trying to understand. I would have thought the easiest explanation would be that he takes less risks while driving, in general and especially in combat (Perez in Melbourne, Massa). To me it logically follows that he runs less risk of a DNF but at the same time ocassionally loses laptime. Which tallies pretty well with his results so far in 2012, good consistency yet no miracle wins, but no brainfades either.

Only that something in that logic of mine is apparently trolling, figure it out! :D


Totally agrees. He has take one leaf out of Jensons book.

One moore thing, it´s wise of him, when he is under pressure (could be from himself) he very offfen fails.
Here I admire Jenson, when he took his WDC he was under great pressure at the end. It didn´t brake him.

#3682 Markn93

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:44

Totally agrees. He has take one leaf out of Jensons book.

One moore thing, it´s wise of him, when he is under pressure (could be from himself) he very offfen fails.
Here I admire Jenson, when he took his WDC he was under great pressure at the end. It didn´t brake him.


Are you serious? Enough with the constant bs, please.

Lewis won his WDC under immense pressure, Fuji 07, China 08, the list goes on. How many examples can you provide of him failing "very often"? I bet it's no more than 3 (China 07, Brazil 07 are the ones I can think of).

JB, whilst providing a great drive in Brazil was not under "great pressure", and it wasn't even the final race of the season! I think you may have forgotten how events transpired in 2009.

#3683 P123

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:48

JB was under great pressure, but it was largely self-inflicted due to his qualifying issues.

#3684 Markn93

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:53

Sorry, not buying it. That being said I am comparing JB's WDC to Lewis' who, again, had to win it in the last race, unlike JB there were no second chances. Also he had lost it the previous year so there was a whole added level of pressure that had built up.

#3685 D.M.N.

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:38

Posts removed - please focus on other people's posts and not the posters.

#3686 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 22:50

What people (drivers) say aren't facts. Indications, pieces of the puzzle, yes. But taking them words at face value, that's what I'd call short sighted. Indeed, you're example is a good one - you really think it would never happen that a driver, say, experiencing fatigue tries to hide that from his team, maybe by giving the opposite impression on the radio? You think such doesn't happen in racing? Think again, I'd say.

Whatever, I'm aware for ages that this is a futile discussion. People just love to kling to their heros words, even with contrary (treal) facts right before their eyes.

I previously posted how Lewis' radio transmission, the fact that he and Jenson were both struggling for pace and this being despite both being renowned strong wet weather drivers, coupled with Lewis' post podium celebration conversation with Fernando and Sergio about the balance of their cars, are all indications that weight in favour of him being genuine on the radio.
Why do believe this not to be the case and what evidence do you have to support you view?

Edited by Buttoneer, 17 May 2012 - 09:41.


#3687 as65p

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 00:29

I previously posted how Lewis' radio transmission, the fact that he and Jenson were both struggling for pace and this being despite both being renowned strong wet weather drivers, coupled with Lewis' post podium celebration conversation with Fernando and Sergio about the balance of their cars, are all indications that weight in favour of him being genuine on the radio.
Why do believe this not to be the case and what evidence do you have to support you view?


Sorry Obi, you quoted me again, yet still without grasping that I was talking in general about judging drivers by their actions rather than their words, not only Hamilton but all of them. The whole quote you posted from me makes no reference to LH, or any other specific driver.

It's just you in your head that I singled out Hamilton. In an earlier reply to Gareth I made particularily clear that I treat Alonsos words just the same in this regard.

So please, with sugar on top, drop that idea that I'm "casting a negative light" solely on Hamilton. Not this time. :wave:;)

#3688 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:54

Oh really, so a driver happy to cruise and settle for a position will get on the blower to his race engineer asking where he can find more time. Your post seems quite short sighted. People need to pay attention to the information and facts available to help form an informed opinion.


Of course he would if he was needing a bit more speed to solidify his position and protect his points.

#3689 Obi Offiah

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:37

Sorry Obi, you quoted me again, yet still without grasping that I was talking in general about judging drivers by their actions rather than their words, not only Hamilton but all of them. The whole quote you posted from me makes no reference to LH, or any other specific driver.

It's just you in your head that I singled out Hamilton. In an earlier reply to Gareth I made particularily clear that I treat Alonsos words just the same in this regard.

So please, with sugar on top, drop that idea that I'm "casting a negative light" solely on Hamilton. Not this time. :wave:;)

I don't believe it is in my head as65p because the discussion had moved on to Malaysia with a specific comment about Lewis and his radio transmission on track while racing, which is different from PR off the circuit. Your next statement was 'Well, my point was to pay less attention to messages'. If you didn't disagree with my initial statement, why make a general statement about paying less attention 'to messages, radio or otherwise'. Also aren't radio transmissions of that nature part of what is happening on track?

You then said in a reply 'Indeed, you're example is a good one - you really think it would never happen that a driver, say, experiencing fatigue tries to hide that from his team, maybe by giving the opposite impression on the radio? You think such doesn't happen in racing? Think again, I'd say.' So what was that statement in reference to, if not the Hamilton transmission?
Taking all of this into account I'm still not clear on where you stand regarding that transmission. Again I posted why I believe it was genuine and I'm interested to know what you think about it, as I think its quite relevant to your earlier comment: 'At least twice this season (Melbourne and Malaysia) LH appeared to chose a safe podium over the win-or-bust approach of former years,'

Edited by Obi Offiah, 16 May 2012 - 05:01.


#3690 Obi Offiah

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:46

Of course he would if he was needing a bit more speed to solidify his position and protect his points.

halifaxf1fan, if the driver was cruising he wouldn't need to ask his engineer where to find more time, he would know to simply speed up. As an example, if you were racing against other cars in a straight line (to simplify things), You are at 80% throttle and the other cars are passing you, you wouldn't radio in for advice to go quicker, you put your foot to the floor and command 100% throttle. If however you were at 100% throttle and the cars were coming past you, you could radio in asking for advice about how to solve the issue, the answer may be use maximum revs.

#3691 tifosiMac

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:10

JB was under great pressure, but it was largely self-inflicted due to his qualifying issues.

Exactly. JB to his credit admitted the pressure got to him after Silverstone in 2009 so those trying to suggest he's immune to it are simply talking out of their backsides. I suggest those unclear, watch jensons post race BBC interview at Brazil '09. He makes it very clear he made things rather difficult for himself that season.

#3692 as65p

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:30

Every season I look forward to see Hamilton, the master of pressure, perform at the last 5 or so races. So far, he has never disappointed me, each time he was still in the WDC hunt it's been good fun. 2012 looks like bringing more of the same. :up: :D

#3693 Rocket73

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:35

hamilton is a new frame of mind it would seem. he must have been so pissed off about the fuelling error. he had so much in speed hand anyway.

really hoping JB sorts it out for monaco as he was nowhere on pace all weekend and embarassingly beaten by lewis.

#3694 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:44

As a huge Button fan I must confess that LH is a really unique driver. His ability to show some outstanding speed in any conditions with any dog of a car is admiring. Huge respect to him for that. JB will have to forget some usual exuces of the past to fight with LH in his prime on equal basis.

#3695 Obi Offiah

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:53

hamilton is a new frame of mind it would seem. he must have been so pissed off about the fuelling error. he had so much in speed hand anyway.

really hoping JB sorts it out for monaco as he was nowhere on pace all weekend and embarassingly beaten by lewis.

JB's problem only manifested in Catalunya as I understand it and even then he was happy with the car after one of the FP sessions. I think it will be sorted by Monaco.

#3696 bauss

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:40

JB's problem only manifested in Catalunya as I understand it and even then he was happy with the car after one of the FP sessions. I think it will be sorted by Monaco.


I'm pretty sure it will, folks writing off JB remind me of those that write off LH after one race.

Plus JB has always had a few of these races per season. They are just gonna be more costly now cos the field is more bunched up...luckily for him, for one reason or another, none of his direct rivals except Alonso scored big points.

If Mclaren Operations can sort themselves out, I'm still looking at this driver combo as favorite for the WCC.



#3697 peroa

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:47

I'm pretty sure it will, folks writing off JB remind me of those that write off LH after one race.

Plus JB has always had a few of these races per season. They are just gonna be more costly now cos the field is more bunched up...luckily for him, for one reason or another, none of his direct rivals except Alonso scored big points.

If Mclaren Operations can sort themselves out, I'm still looking at this driver combo as favorite for the WCC.

Nobody can be written off this season, too many variables at play here.

#3698 GlenP

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:54

I agree to early to call a trend, although they are now separated by two things, rather than just one. Previous to Barcelona the only appreciable difference was Jenson's Sepang error, but now I do have to add on a very odd weekend of failing to dial the car in to the tyres. As you guys have said, hopefully the tyre thing is almost so random as to fix itself (not quite).

Edit - also separated by the usual qualifying contrast, which usually makes not so much difference, but at Monaco…

Jenson needs a big weekend.

Edited by GlenP, 16 May 2012 - 14:55.


#3699 Rocket73

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 15:14

As a huge Button fan I must confess that LH is a really unique driver. His ability to show some outstanding speed in any conditions with any dog of a car is admiring. Huge respect to him for that. JB will have to forget some usual exuces of the past to fight with LH in his prime on equal basis.


I think that it's quite possible that the mclaren is still the best car out there it's just tyres catching people out and messing with the order. Lewis was bloody quick in Q and i think that if JB hadn't been suffering 'massive understeer' he would have been front row on the grid...imo ofc



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#3700 robefc

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 16:15

I agree to early to call a trend, although they are now separated by two things, rather than just one. Previous to Barcelona the only appreciable difference was Jenson's Sepang error, but now I do have to add on a very odd weekend of failing to dial the car in to the tyres. As you guys have said, hopefully the tyre thing is almost so random as to fix itself (not quite).

Edit - also separated by the usual qualifying contrast, which usually makes not so much difference, but at Monaco…

Jenson needs a big weekend.


Agreed but weirdly so does Lewis, his performance hasn't been matched by results largely because of the team, if the car is good and he is driving well now is the time for it come together and to head the WDC.

After all if JB heads a 1-2 JB is ahead in the WDC...

EDIT - not quite right, make that a 1-3!

Edited by robefc, 16 May 2012 - 16:16.