120 replies to this topic

[dbcas]

There has been talk for a long time about Stefan Bellof and how he would have been world champion and was Germanys best driver before Schumacher came along but what would the future have held for Marcus Hottinger?
A BMW junior driver he raced in the procar series in 1979 against the grand prix stars and in 1980 raced in formula 2 for Maurer (like Bellof ) until he was killed during a race at Hockenheim. I never got to see him race but was due to at Donington in the procar series before his tragic death.

Edited by dbcas, 16 March 2012 - 17:34.

[MCS]

Well, he was Austrian, not German - or did you know that?

[dbcas]

Yeah i forgot.... ok ill class him as 1 of the Austrian/German drivers who came along at the same time.
Manfred Winkelhock, Hans Georg Burger, Jo Gartner etc.....
By the way hasnt Hans Stuck raced as both a German/Austrian over the years?

Edited by dbcas, 16 March 2012 - 18:44.

[MCS]

Yeah i forgot.... ok ill class him as 1 of the Austrian/German drivers who came along at the same time.
Manfred Winkelhock, Hans Georg Burger, Jo Gartner etc.....
By the way hasnt Hans Stuck raced as both a German/Austrian over the years?

I have never seen Stuck down as Austrian, ever.

[Tim Murray]

Stuck was born in Warsaw, then part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. After World War 2 he was resident in Austria and raced on an Austrian licence.

[dbcas]

Certainly did but im talking about Hans Stuck Jr. I know that i have seen him down as Austrian several times and must admit i found it strange as i know he is German. Maybe he did race on an Austrian linence for a while? Anyone know?

[dbcas]

Hans Stuck raced for team Austria in the Dubai 24hrs in 2006. Dont know if it means anything though
http://previous-race...s.com/?page=369

Edited by dbcas, 16 March 2012 - 19:56.

[MCS]

Certainly did but im talking about Hans Stuck Jr. I know that i have seen him down as Austrian several times and must admit i found it strange as i know he is German. Maybe he did race on an Austrian linence for a while? Anyone know?

You've got me there, dbcas - I've certainly never noticed him as being anything other than German.

[dbcas]

It only stands out as when i was a schoolboy and the Panini (is that the right name?) sticker albums came out i collected them like all 13yr olds did at the time and wondered who this guy was driving for Brabham who i had never heard of alongside Hunt, Lauda, Fittipaldi etc.....
By the way did anyone else have (or still have like me) a copy of that album from 1977.
Apologies for getting so far off track i will learn to stay focused with more experience

[Stephen W]

Certainly did but im talking about Hans Stuck Jr. I know that i have seen him down as Austrian several times and must admit i found it strange as i know he is German. Maybe he did race on an Austrian linence for a while? Anyone know?

Born 01/01/51 in Grainau, near Garmisch-Partenkirchen in Germany

[Twin Window]

A BMW junior driver he raced in the procar series in 1979 against the grand prix stars and in 1980 raced in formula 2 for Maurer (like Bellof ) until he was killed during a race at Hockenheim.

Markus also competed in F2 during 1979 driving a Bob Salisbury March 792. He died as a result of being struck on the head by a rear wheel which had become detatched from Derek Warwick's Toleman. Wearing a Simpson 'Star Wars' probably didn't help his chances, likewise with Hans-Georg Bürger a few weeks later...

[rallen]

Markus also competed in F2 during 1979 driving a Bob Salisbury March 792. He died as a result of being struck on the head by a rear wheel which had become detatched from Derek Warwick's Toleman. Wearing a Simpson 'Star Wars' probably didn't help his chances, likewise with Hans-Georg Bürger a few weeks later...

Crickey, funny how this things seem to happen in batches. Poor chaps.

Twinny was Warwick effected by this at all?

[Twin Window]

Twinny was Warwick effected by this at all?

I don't recall him being overly affected, but such incidents weren't the rarities back then they are now. In fact I know for a fact that the Toleman team joked about flying wheels in front of him - something which seems distasteful in hindsight (actually, it did back then too) - which was justified at the time, by my friend who was a senior team member, as a way of getting both him and the team over the incident.

Different days, different characters and a different prevailing mentality back then.

[Mig007]

I think I have opened a small topic on Hottinger before. I had done some resarch about him, I 'll post here what I've written

[Mig007]

Markus Höttinger was an Austrian racing driver, born on May 28th, 1956 at Neunkirschen. His father was a judge in the national court and his mother was a teacher and Höttinger followed his parents’ steps and started being noticed about his great abilities at school. One of the best students of the prestigious Militärgymnasium, he proceeded to study Medicine in the college, but also took on Physical education and Journalism!! He was also a great sportsman, he practiced ski at Ski Austria Academy with Prof.Franz Hopplicher, for many, the father of the modern ski training methods and mentor of many champions. During a Summer break, he did an internship at Mercedes-Benz and earned some money, which he used to buy a Ford to enter in touring car races.
In 1976, he started racing at the Renault 5 Cup in Austria and he only needed one rookie year, as in 1977 he was champion. Dr.Helmut Marko, himself an Austrian ex-driver who had to retire after loosing an eye due to a stone at the 1972 French GP, was searching for Niki Lauda’s “heir”, and Höttinger drew his attention. Helmut supported Markus and referred him to BMW’s competition boss, Jochen Neerpasch. He hadn’t to wait too much: before the Kyalami 1000 Km, an extra-championship touring car race, Eddie Cheever (who was F2 BMW driver) was injuried and was unable to race, so Jochen called Höttinger to pair Harald Grohs in a Faltz-Alpina Essen BMW 320. Despite his lack of knowledge about the powerful car, he rode well and finished 3rd.
In 1978, he was engaged by BMW and his program included running the DRM (Deutsche Rennsportmeisterschaft), which was the German National Championship, composed by 2 Divisions: D1 for Sports Cars (like Porsche 956) and D2 for Touring Cars (like BMW 320). Höttinger was engaged for the semi-works GS-Tuning team to race a BMW 320. Racing against some of the greatest touring car drivers of the era, like Hans Heyer, Dieter Quester, Armin Hahne, Toine Hezemans, Harald Ertl… he took his first win at his 3rd race, at the dreadful Nürburgring. He would win more two races and finish the championship at the 4th position, ex-aequo, with 117 pts.
He proved he had enough talent and, for 1979 BMW kept him at the DRM, now with Jägermeister Racing; but also offered him the F2 debut with a small team, Bob Salisbury Racing. With a March 792-BMW, sponsored by Jägermeister,

[LittleChris]

he took his first win at his 3rd race, at the dreadful Nürburgring.

I hope you meant DREADED Nurburgring given Markus died 4 years before the advent of the DREADFUL Nurburgring

[Mig007]

hahahahhah

[doc knutsen]

Markus also competed in F2 during 1979 driving a Bob Salisbury March 792. He died as a result of being struck on the head by a rear wheel which had become detatched from Derek Warwick's Toleman. Wearing a Simpson 'Star Wars' probably didn't help his chances, likewise with Hans-Georg Bürger a few weeks later...

Please elaborate on the problems with the Simpson helmets?

[rallen]

I don't recall him being overly affected, but such incidents weren't the rarities back then they are now. In fact I know for a fact that the Toleman team joked about flying wheels in front of him - something which seems distasteful in hindsight (actually, it did back then too) - which was justified at the time, by my friend who was a senior team member, as a way of getting both him and the team over the incident.

Different days, different characters and a different prevailing mentality back then.

Thanks for the answer Twinny, really appreciate it - very interesting. Yeah different mentality back then, though distasteful I suppose - it is probably the best way to get over something like that. Anyway glad he wasn't effected.

[Mig007]

It was sad but it was also something that drivers and all staff were "prepared" because it happened much more than now

[uechtel]

Stuck was born in Warsaw, then part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. After World War 2 he was resident in Austria and raced on an Austrian licence.

Just to stand it corrected in this thread as well: Warsaw was NEVER part of Austro-Hungary, neither Austria, not even Germany! So whatever it was, the place of his birth can be no reason for his Austrian license!

[Tim Murray]

Thanks Markus. I wonder if Vitesse and I both read the same incorrect reference.

[arttidesco]

I believe Hans Stuck raced on a German license before the war and an Austrian one after the war having taken up Austrian citizenship post war, I have never seen anything in writing about how this change of nationality came about.

[ensign14]

Yeah i forgot.... ok ill class him as 1 of the Austrian/German drivers who came along at the same time.
Manfred Winkelhock, Hans Georg Burger, Jo Gartner etc.....

If I remember correctly, Burger's helmet was like Tambay's, only red rather than blue, so very Austrian, but Hoettinger's was a very German red with a black and yellow zigzag. I thought Markus was German because of that till this thread popped up.

[funformula]

If I remember correctly, Burger's helmet was like Tambay's, only red rather than blue, so very Austrian, but Hoettinger's was a very German red with a black and yellow zigzag. I thought Markus was German because of that till this thread popped up.

You´re right about Bürgers helmet colour, although he was German.

[Michael Ferner]

In 1978, he was engaged by BMW and his program included running the DRM (Deutsche Rennsportmeisterschaft), which was the German National Championship, composed by 2 Divisions: D1 for Sports Cars (like Porsche 956) and D2 for Touring Cars (like BMW 320). Höttinger was engaged for the semi-works GS-Tuning team to race a BMW 320. Racing against some of the greatest touring car drivers of the era, like Hans Heyer, Dieter Quester, Armin Hahne, Toine Hezemans, Harald Ertl… he took his first win at his 3rd race, at the dreadful Nürburgring. He would win more two races and finish the championship at the 4th position, ex-aequo, with 117 pts.

Just a small correction: a "division" is usually/generally two classes within one category of the same, meaning either sports cars or touring cars. In the case of the 1978 DRM it was "Groupe 5 Touring Cars" (actually, "silhouette racing cars") for both divisions; division one was over 2 litres engine capacity, and division 2 under. Turbocharged cars (which were the rule at the time, rather than an exception) gave away about 30 % engine capacity.

EDITED to correct spelling of difficult words... groupe & silhouette!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 28 January 2013 - 19:11.

[MCS]

Nice picture here: http://img.fotocommu...1-a20389502.jpg

Always liked the Jägermeister colour scheme - it was different. Hadn't realised he was sponsored by Rafeissen Bank as well. Poor lad was only twenty-three.

Back to ensign14's post briefly, Burger's helmet was a Simpson. Was Höttinger's?

[ensign14]

Yes - the Star Wars one as Twin Window describes it. At least it was at the Thruxton race before he was killed.

[Mig007]

Just a small correction: a "division" is usually/generally two classes within one category of the same, meaning either sports cars or touring cars. In the case of the 1978 DRM it was "Groupe 5 Touring Cars" (actually, "silhouette racing cars") for both divisions; division one was over 2 litres engine capacity, and division 2 under. Turbocharged cars (which were the rule at the time, rather than an exception) gave away about 30 % engine capacity.

EDITED to correct spelling of difficult words... groupe & silhouette!

Thanks, I'll make the changes on my article for sure

[Michael Ferner]

Oh, and the Hörnerwhiskey BMW was a GS Motorsport entry, if I'm not mistaken. GS = Gerhard Schneider.

[funformula]

Yes - the Star Wars one as Twin Window describes it. At least it was at the Thruxton race before he was killed.

He wore the Simpson Bandit/Star Wars helmet at Hockenheim. But I don´t think the helmet is to blame for causing fatal injuries in Höttingers case.
He just had no chance to survive this kind of accident, doesn´t matter which kind of helmet he would have chosen.

Regarding the picture of him sitting in the "Hörnerwhiskey" ( still laughing about that) March 792. Never seen this kind of Bell helmet before. Seems to be a kind of prototype of the Bell XFM1 introduced in 1980.
Maybe "mfd" knows more about that?

Edited by funformula, 30 January 2013 - 08:22.

[Twin Window]

Regarding the picture of him sitting in the "Hörnerwhiskey" ( still laughing about that) March 792. Never seen this kind of Bell helmet before. Seems to be a kind of prototype of the Bell XFM1 introduced in 1980.
Maybe "mfd" knows more about that?

I'm pretty sure it's a Boeri-Sport lid. Hans Stück also wore one during 1976/7, maybe for longer.

[mfd]

I'm pretty sure it's a Boeri-Sport lid. Hans Stück also wore one during 1976/7, maybe for longer.

Sorry chaps, at first I didn't know where to look (thanks Stuart!) I could tell it wasn't a Bell or a Simpson though.

Hans Stuck, the master of sticker on wrong helmet such as Boeri sticker on a Griffin in 1975 & Shoei on a GPA in 1986. Stuck really did wear Boeri in 76-77 as Stuart recalled however in 1979 he was wearing UVEX, a German brand still out there today in the world of GT & Prototypes. It also looks the same as the one Höttinger is wearing.

[funformula]

Sorry chaps, at first I didn't know where to look (thanks Stuart!) I could tell it wasn't a Bell or a Simpson though.

Hans Stuck, the master of sticker on wrong helmet such as Boeri sticker on a Griffin in 1975 & Shoei on a GPA in 1986. Stuck really did wear Boeri in 76-77 as Stuart recalled however in 1979 he was wearing UVEX, a German brand still out there today in the world of GT & Prototypes. It also looks the same as the one Höttinger is wearing.

I remember Stuck wearing a Simpson Bandit with UVEX stickers in 1979
I have a closer look on Höttingers helmet on another picture and it´s indeed very similar to the Boeri helmet Stuck was using during 1977 and ´78 but the eyeport on Höttingers helmet is much smaller which make it look very much like an Bell XFM1

Markus Höttinger seemed to have changed his personal helmet design with every new helmet he was using.
In Touring cars in 1978 he had a silver helmet with red stripes.
In 1979 in F2 he had the white helmet with the small red stripe.
In 1980 he had a beautyful red/orange/black design.

Edited by funformula, 30 January 2013 - 22:37.

[mfd]

I remember Stuck wearing a Simpson Bandit with UVEX stickers in 1979
I have a closer look on Höttingers helmet on another picture and it´s indeed very similar to the Boeri helmet Stuck was using during 1977 and ´78 but the eyeport on Höttingers helmet is much smaller which make it look very much like an Bell XFM1

Sorry Harald, close but no cigar. The UVEX is here, a bit like a small window Boeri
http://24.media.tumb...brpio1_1280.jpg

Please stop calling the 79-80 period Simpson helmet a "Bandit" That particular name was applied to a helmet introduced much later 80's.

[funformula]

Sorry Harald, close but no cigar. The UVEX is here, a bit like a small window Boeri
http://24.media.tumb...brpio1_1280.jpg

Please stop calling the 79-80 period Simpson helmet a "Bandit" That particular name was applied to a helmet introduced much later 80's.

Mike, thanks for that picture. Never seen Stuck wearing this helmet before, It´s indeed the same as the one Höttinger is wearing.

I always thought the so called "Star Wars" or "Bandit" helmet meant the same.
So what was the original Simpson name for this helmet. I wonder if they called it "Star Wars" too.

[Stephen W]

Markus Höttinger seemed to have changed his personal helmet design with every new helmet he was using.
In Touring cars in 1978 he had a silver helmet with red stripes.
In 1979 in F2 he had the white helmet with the small red stripe.
In 1980 he had a beautyful red/orange/black design.

1980 at Thruxton

[mfd]

Mike, thanks for that picture. Never seen Stuck wearing this helmet before, It´s indeed the same as the one Höttinger is wearing.

I always thought the so called "Star Wars" or "Bandit" helmet meant the same.
So what was the original Simpson name for this helmet. I wonder if they called it "Star Wars" too.

The Simpson like the one Höttinger is wearing in the Thruxton 1980 photo was known as "Star Wars" but it was a nickname not the model number. Initially it was RX1 with a later version with the integral nomex neck roll known as Model 12. There was an identical looking version without nomex but a regular interior (a bike version) known as Model 30.

Bandit was really a model name Simson applied to a helmet that was introduced in the late 80's. After this time, all Simpsons have names as opposed to numbers. If the link works this photo shows "Star Wars" on the left & Bandit on the right, sourced from g**gle images
http://i18.photobuck...ml1/SIMPSON.jpg

[funformula]

@ Stephen W
What a shame these simple but very recognizable designs went out of fashion.

Nowadays the helmets are painted in "Barbie style" fashion with all that chrome, small stripes and colours without (at least to me) a clear theme.

@mfd
Mike, so Höttingers helmet shown in Stephen´s picture is a Model 12?

Edited by funformula, 31 January 2013 - 11:55.

[mfd]

Mike, so Höttingers helmet shown in Stephen´s picture is a Model 12?

Yes Nicknamed "Star Wars" but never "Bandit"

[funformula]

Yes Nicknamed "Star Wars" but never "Bandit"

Thank you

Now I know I have a Model 12 in my collection. I will never call it Bandit again, I promise

[GMiranda]

Hello

 

I finally have my website, I hope you enjoy. The article on Höttinger was an obvious choice to restart, here it is. I made some slight changes:

 

http://www.motorraci...rkus-hottinger/

[E1pix]

Very well done, especially considering the difficulties and artistic turmoil of such matters.

[GMiranda]

Very well done, especially considering the difficulties and artistic turmoil of such matters.

 

Thanks, i am deeply honoured. You're speaking about the fact he died racing?

[E1pix]

You're most welcome and Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Yes, for me anyway, crafting words around sad destinies can have a challenging pall in finding positives. Sometimes there's more joy than sadness, other times not. Well done.

[GMiranda]

Many Thanks, I feel deeply honoured.

 

You know, it's difficult in history to deal with fatality and all these things, because a way someone die happened, and has to be historically accurate. I disagree with extensive use of gory pictures and descriptions, and focusing so much on the defining moment... but it has to be dealt in a way not to hurt all those people around, because most of these men have families that remember their stories and their demise, and at the same time without entering in such an euphemism which may completely blind the truth. I am an historian, not a reporter, so I try to balance it.

[E1pix]

I'd say you've accomplished your goals well. Keep it up. 

[GMiranda]

Again, many thanks!!!! Hope to publish more soon, sadly some with such endings

[GMiranda]

Last version, I updated the website and had to delete all: http://www.motorraci...he-verge-of-f1/

[wolf sun]

I was at that tragic race in 1980. Me being six years old at the time, this must be one of my first motorsport memories. My father and me were in the Südkurve grandstand. I remember the ubiquitous Renault 5s, DRM Capris (my dad had a Capri at the time) and Hans Heyer's blue Lancia - and of course the aborted Formula 2 race, everything going quiet, and the helicopter taking off. A sad day.