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Will Massa finish the season with Ferrari? Replacements? [merged]


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Poll: Will Felipe Massa finish the season with Ferrari? (917 member(s) have cast votes)

Will Felipe Massa finish the season with Ferrari?

  1. Yes. (378 votes [41.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.27%

  2. No. (538 votes [58.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.73%

Vote

#101 korzeniow

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:25

Massa hasn't just started underperforming, he's been rubbish for ages.


I would say he never was top class driver

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#102 TheBunk

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:33

This :up:

I have no sympathy for Ferrari, they crushed his spirit at Hockenheim and since then he's been useless but its their fault!


He had a crushed spirit the whole 2010 then. Forgot about Melbourne and Malaysia where he ruined Alonsos race too?

It really is a mystery why he is allowed to underperform year in and year out at such a top team. Un-be-lievable.

#103 NeilMick

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:38

They need to get rid of him NOW and get someone else in, he just doesn't have it. It's almost embarrassing.

#104 plastik2k9

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:43

Perhaps not, but I don't think changing driver when the car is difficult to drive is wise at all. Felipe at least has the experience of testing the car; if you bring someone else in, no matter how experienced they are, they may just perform worse. In 2009 we saw Badoer and Fisichella find it difficult to adapt to the Ferrari. Different car now of course, but just shows that it's not as simple as switching driver mid season.

EDIT: So I guess if they absolutely feel the need to ditch him, sooner is better than later.

Edited by plastik2k9, 17 March 2012 - 12:46.


#105 NeilMick

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:44

What's the point if he has no long term future, which by the looks of it he doesn't

#106 Sakae

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:47

Perhaps not, but I don't think changing driver when the car is difficult to drive is wise at all. Felipe at least has the experience of testing the car; if you bring someone else in, no matter how experienced they are, they may just perform worse. In 2009 we saw Badoer and Fisichella find it difficult to adapt to the Ferrari. Different car now of course, but just shows that it's not as simple as switching driver mid season.

I tend to agree, and switch makes no sense to me. Decision was made, agenda is full, and its not only about Massa for WDC, but best possible placing in WCC. Switching new driver, worrying about contracts is distraction SF doesn't need right now. New driver might fall flat as well.

#107 NeilMick

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:49

I tend to agree, and switch makes no sense to me. Decision was made, agenda is full, and its not only about Massa for WDC, but best possible placing in WCC. Switching new driver, worrying about contracts is distraction SF doesn't need right now. New driver might fall flat as well.


I'm sure the aerodynamicists will spend a lot of time drawing up that legal contract. :rotfl: :clap:

#108 jamiegc

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:50

They should put Bianchi in the car. He can hardly do worse, and they can prep him for next year.


Jesus christ, Ferrari need consistent performances and races finished. Not Bianchi crashing into everything on 4 wheels.

IF Massa was dropped, they'd go for Perez. Consistent, reliable, and MAJOR backing.

#109 Sakae

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:52

I'm sure the aerodynamicists will spend a lot of time drawing up that legal contract. :rotfl: :clap:

I would hope that you will read my whole post, rather than taking sentences out of context.

#110 NeilMick

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:53

They have nothing to lose though, he's already awful.

#111 TheBunk

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:57

They have nothing to lose though, he's already awful.


Agreed. Though id opt for an experienced driver like Heidfeld, or even Fisichella. They need a good development driver next to Alonso. Massa doesnt seem to be it.



#112 NeilMick

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:10

Trulli...

#113 Mackey

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:13

Ferrari must fix this POS of car they have before blaming the drivers.

#114 saudoso

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:13

Right now I gues the top of the axeables list belongs to KR.

#115 Alx09

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:14

They should replace him with Glock this season.

#116 NeilMick

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:19

Ferrari must fix this POS of car they have before blaming the drivers.


This has nothing to do with it, he's been consistently much slower than Alonso for the last 2 years.

#117 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:21

Perhaps Rubens could drive for Ferrari again.

#118 DanardiF1

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 13:27

He can seldom afford to nearly ruin his career twice.

They should put Bianchi in the car. He can hardly do worse, and they can prep him for next year.


the only person I could think of who could possibly run up more of a repair bill than Massa (who is connected to Ferrari) is Bianchi.

#119 Disgrace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:06

the only person I could think of who could possibly run up more of a repair bill than Massa (who is connected to Ferrari) is Bianchi.


Jesus christ, Ferrari need consistent performances and races finished. Not Bianchi crashing into everything on 4 wheels.

IF Massa was dropped, they'd go for Perez. Consistent, reliable, and MAJOR backing.


Perez is probably the other sensible option without taking a has-been.

Bianchi can then be put into the Sauber, otherwise why would be bother staying along with the Ferrari young driver program?

In wheel-to-wheel battles, Bianchi can only be marginally worse than Massa who turns in on everyone. The practice repair bill would be higher, certainly, but if the season is a write-off already then there's not all that much to lose.

Edited by Disgrace, 17 March 2012 - 15:07.


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#120 Octavian

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:12

They should have got rid of him a long time ago - there are half a dozen drivers on the grid who could do a better job than he is and these are young prospects who could grow in to great drivers - Massa isn't growing in to anything but mediocrity.



#121 Siperoth

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:17

In wheel-to-wheel battles, Bianchi can only be marginally worse than Massa who turns in on everyone.


Nice to see others seeing that. The guy isn't just slow and a bad driver for Ferrari but his a god damn danger on the track. He turns in on people and the worse is that he always thinks his the innocent little virgin and it's never his fault. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't even understand how racing is done.

Edited by Siperoth, 17 March 2012 - 15:20.


#122 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:19

Massa had the ability to take a good car, stick it on pole and covert that to a lights to flag win. He was never good at getting results outside of that 'operating window'. His problem is that (a) Ferrari haven't been providing the best car since 2008 (b) on the odd occasion the Ferrari has been the best, his had the performance beaten out of him by the spring and/or by Alonso/Ferrari management.

#123 ViMaMo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 15:52

Just how many of you believe Button is better than Hamilton? Its just a POV.

#124 midgrid

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:30

Ferrari's first priority must be to sort the F2012.

That being said, Massa's performance was bad today, even allowing for the deficiencies of his car. However, is there any driver out there could could step into such an ill-handling car, with no testing, and expect to be any closer to Alonso?

Edited by midgrid, 17 March 2012 - 20:19.


#125 discover23

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:42

Massa had the ability to take a good car, stick it on pole and covert that to a lights to flag win. He was never good at getting results outside of that 'operating window'. His problem is that (a) Ferrari haven't been providing the best car since 2008 (b) on the odd occasion the Ferrari has been the best, his had the performance beaten out of him by the spring and/or by Alonso/Ferrari management.

In a nutshell this is massa's situation in the last couple of years.

#126 Massa_f1

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 16:48

Massa had the ability to take a good car, stick it on pole and covert that to a lights to flag win. He was never good at getting results outside of that 'operating window'. His problem is that (a) Ferrari haven't been providing the best car since 2008 (b) on the odd occasion the Ferrari has been the best, his had the performance beaten out of him by the spring and/or by Alonso/Ferrari management.



True. He has not been the same since either of those things. I admit he will most likely never win another race. It's a shame to me as a fan. I admit he was never one of the top drivers in F1, but he could win races and get podiums. I fear neither of those will ever return.

#127 D.M.N.

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:17

It all goes back to Hungary 2009 and the crash which I think took a lot out of him mentally and physically. Then Germany 2010 gave him another mental blow. Unfortunately, I see him from going, but its no surprise because he's been treated as a number two driver since Alonso walked through the doors of Maranello and the writing has been written firmly on the wall since.

#128 discover23

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:23

Don't think so since he came back strong at the start of the 2010 season only a few tenths behind Alonso. The car is just bad and difficult to drive. In 2009 Ferrari had a car that was very easy to drive - it was just not as fast as the top cars and in 2008 he had the best car at his disposal and one that suited him perfectly.




#129 fieraku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:28

I think Massa is having a case of was it Fisi09? when he couldn't drive that car if his life depended on it,and I also think his confidence is down to zero.
Barrichelo would be the wiser better choice if you think about it.

#130 jamiegc

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:29

Bianchi can then be put into the Sauber, otherwise why would be bother staying along with the Ferrari young driver program?


No chance. When Perez moves over to Ferrari, Gutierrez is taking his place. If Perez doesnt move over, Kobayashi is a goner. Slim isnt paying all that money to have a Ferrari crasher thrown in there.

Bianchi has to worry about winning GP2 first before he thinks about getting an F1 race seat.

#131 Woody3says

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:40

Massa will last through seasons end, THEN he is gone and the seat is Perez's. SF for some reason just can't help but give Massa every excuse possible. That time is up now...

#132 Konsta

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:41

Nice to see others seeing that. The guy isn't just slow and a bad driver for Ferrari but his a god damn danger on the track. He turns in on people and the worse is that he always thinks his the innocent little virgin and it's never his fault. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't even understand how racing is done.


Pre-effing-cisely. He achingly misses on racecraft - fast he is but as a racer useless. To boot nothing ever is Felipe´s fault.

#133 garoidb

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 17:46

Massa will last through seasons end, THEN he is gone and the seat is Perez's. SF for some reason just can't help but give Massa every excuse possible. That time is up now...


I think he would be gone now but for Kubica's accident. With Robert unavailable, there were few with Ferrari-level proven ability (as opposed to potential) available.

#134 seltaeb

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 18:34

Bring back Rubens.

:up: :up:

Perhaps Rubens could drive for Ferrari again.

:up: :up:

I think Massa is having a case of was it Fisi09? when he couldn't drive that car if his life depended on it,and I also think his confidence is down to zero.
Barrichelo would be the wiser better choice if you think about it.

:up: :up:


That would be great :).

#135 Enzoluis

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 21:13

Massa should be fired after Germany 2010, now start to change SD, Then will see.

#136 Sausage

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:06

It depends on what Ferrari wants, and from my perspective they are a 1-driver team with Alonso. Massa is a good partner in that respect, they want him to do better than this sure but not beat Alonso. If they really wanted 2 top drivers they'd have fired and replaced him a long time ago, Ferrari has the money for it easily.

#137 itsademo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:20

perhaps the more pertinent question is will Alonso still be there come the end of season or will he do an Alonso to Ferrari?
After all we all know what happens when he does not get what he wants.....
Posted Image
will the fia be waiting on an call from him AGAIN?

#138 OSX

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:23

Yes, he will.


#139 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:25

He will. They have had all the reasons they need to dump him and still they didn´t. Why would they do it now?

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#140 Alarcon

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:25

Massa had the ability to take a good car, stick it on pole and covert that to a lights to flag win. He was never good at getting results outside of that 'operating window'. His problem is that (a) Ferrari haven't been providing the best car since 2008 (b) on the odd occasion the Ferrari has been the best, his had the performance beaten out of him by the spring and/or by Alonso/Ferrari management.



Is that an ability?



#141 Flyhigh

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:25

Massa should dump Ferrari, is not a team worthy of his talent ATM and their incomptency as a team in the pits and strategy cost him the 2008 WDC more than anything else.

I am joking a little bite here, but I just find amusing this idea of people that Ferrari is such a hot team, just beucase of their name and paintjob. Last year they were not even Podium worthy as far as equipment much less as a team and strategy wise and this year we are starting with them at 14-16. Wake up people, you think Massa should be that worry about leaving this team ? Ferrari is not this hot shot anymore.

#142 Rikhart

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:29

How about alonso? Not doing that much better :D

#143 2ms

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 22:33

Massa knows he's lost a step since the accident and that there is nothing he can do about it. It's extremely sad. But he's making a ton of money and I think he just wants to hold on to that paycheck as long as he can. At least these days the drivers survive these accidents.

However, Ferrari, of course, loves their scapegoats, and Massa has got to be at the top of the list. I would not be surprised if we saw a "surprise" move by Ferrari to put Trulli in a car much like they did with Fisichella. I think Luca likes Alonso looking good and free of competition within team. But having possibly the now poorest driver on grid is too much.

#144 patgaw

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:06

He doesn't deserve to be in F1, but Ferrari will keep him for whole season.

#145 KinoNoNo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:08

The drivers are the least of Ferrari's problems, but who knows.

#146 MarioKart

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:33

:up: :up:


:up: :up:


:up: :up:


That would be great :).


Rubens is now committed in IndyCar and seems very happy to be there. New beginning, new chances, brighter future for him. Even if he were available for next year and Ferrari offered him a contract, he would never take it. The last thing he wants for himself is a repeat of the early 2000's with Schumacher - signing as number 2 to Alonso, including team orders and the whole "package". The current car isn't even decent and frustrating to handle, unlike having the comfort of racing in the dominating Ferrari's of the past.
I say, because I like Rubens very much, I would never wish such "fate" upon him. Rubens, stay in Indy please.

In regards to Massa's career - I do think he's a good driver, but all the negative events which happened to him during his stay at Ferrari have broken him into small pieces. :| I believe he will stay in the team till the end of the season, but it's a burned bridge and he must find another team to regain his former form and identity. IMO this is not Massa we're seeing anymore, it's just a confused lost young man falling in a never ending tunnel of a big money-rolling pressuring environment.
Massa ought to sign with a midfield team - only good would come out of it.

Edit: spelling.

Edited by MarioKart, 17 March 2012 - 23:43.


#147 CF22

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:40

Yes, though I'm not his biggest fan today proved that the problem does not lie with Felipe, the problem is the car. I think a better question would be will Domenicali finish the season?

#148 MarioKart

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:40

Is that an ability?

Yes of course it's an important ability. There were drivers who had been great in average cars yet couldn't extract the maximum out of top cars. BTW haven't you championed this specific ability time after time when discussing Vettel in his thread? :rolleyes:

#149 maximilian

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:56

They should have put Sutil in that seat, and still should.

#150 flowerdew

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 23:57

Yes, though I'm not his biggest fan today proved that the problem does not lie with Felipe, the problem is the car. I think a better question would be will Domenicali finish the season?


Idk, after today, I suspect it's the facilities - simulators, wind tunnel - that are the main problem, and that no amount of personnel changes, drivers or management or otherwise, is going to make a significant difference in the meantime. Ferrari either needs to improve those areas or wrangle more real-life testing so it doesn't rely on those facilities first and foremost.

As for Felipe, I suspect that short of something astounding and unforeseen, he'll see the season out. Finishing far behind Fernando won't tip it, I don't think.