59 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

As we have done in the past few years, the championship standings under old points systems. Interesting to look at, especially if the outcome/leaders' under an old system are different to how they are currently. Obviously after round 1 the standings will be same for the drivers' compared to now, but not for the constructors':

2003 to 2009 System (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 10 pts - Jenson Button
02 - 8 pts - Sebastian Vettel
03 - 6 pts - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 5 pts - Mark Webber
05 - 4 pts - Fernando Alonso
06 - 3 pts - Kamui Kobayashi
07 - 2 pts - Kimi Raikkonen
08 - 1 pt - Sergio Perez

Constructors' Championship
01 - 16 pts - McLaren
02 - 13 pts - Red Bull
03 - 4 pts - Ferrari
== - 4 pts - Sauber (joint equal instead of Sauber 4th)
05 - 2 pts - Lotus

1991 to 2002 System (10-6-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 10 pts - Jenson Button
02 - 6 pts - Sebastian Vettel
03 - 4 pts - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 3 pts - Mark Webber
05 - 2 pts - Fernando Alonso
06 - 1 pts - Kamui Kobayashi

Constructors' Championship
01 - 14 pts - McLaren
02 - 9 pts - Red Bull
03 - 2 pts - Ferrari
04 - 1 pt - Sauber

Edited by D.M.N., 18 March 2012 - 13:01.

[D.M.N.]

Update after 3 round, red is the current total:

2003 to 2009 System (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 18 pts (43) - Jenson Button
== - 18 pts (45) - Lewis Hamilton
03 - 15 pts (36) - Mark Webber
04 - 14 pts (37) - Fernando Alonso
05 - 12 pts (28) - Sebastian Vettel
06 - 10 pts (25) - Nico Rosberg
07 - 9 pts (22) - Sergio Perez
08 - 6 pts (16) - Kimi Raikkonen
09 - 5 pts (14) - Bruno Senna
10 - 3 pts (9) - Kamui Kobayashi
== - 3 pts (8) - Romain Grosjean
12 - 2 pts (7) - Paul di Resta
13 - 1 pt (4) - Jean Eric Vergne
14 - 1 pt (4) - Pastor Maldonaldo

Constructors' Championship
01 - 36 pts (88) - McLaren
02 - 27 pts (64) - Red Bull
03 - 14 pts (37) - Ferrari
04 - 12 pts (31) - Sauber
05 - 10 pts (26) - Mercedes
06 - 9 pts (24) - Lotus
07 - 6 pts (18) - Williams
08 - 2 pts (9) - Force India
09 - 1 pt (6) - Toro Rosso

1991 to 2002 System (10-6-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 16 pts (43) - Jenson Button
02 - 12 pts (45) - Lewis Hamilton
== - 12 pts (37) - Fernando Alonso
04 - 10 pts (25) - Nico Rosberg
05 - 9 pts (36) - Mark Webber
06 - 8 pts (28) - Sebastian Vettel
07 - 6 pts (22) - Sergio Perez
08 - 2 pts (16) - Kimi Raikkonen
09 - 1 pt (9) - Kamui Kobayashi
== - 1 pt (14) - Bruno Senna
== - 1 pt (8) - Romain Grosjean

Constructors' Championship
01 - 28 pts (88) - McLaren
02 - 17 pts (64) - Red Bull
03 - 12 pts (37) - Ferrari
04 - 10 pts (26) - Mercedes
05 - 7 pts (31) - Sauber
06 - 3 pts (24) - Lotus
07 - 1 pt (18) - Williams

The 1991 to 2002 system shows for me how close it is this year. Back in the late 1990's, you would have 3 teams in the top 6, whereas this year there has been a real mixture of drivers' in the top 6 - a total of 11 drivers' and 7 teams' in those positions. Interestingly, its only with this years' system that Hamilton is in the lead, in the 2003 to 2009 system, he would be level with Button, whereas before that he would actually be equal with Alonso.

The 2003-09 system mirrors real life except Webber is not ahead of Alonso, whereas the 1991-2002 system seems to reward winners' more, as Rosberg is ahead of both Red Bull's, not behind as he is currently.

[trogggy]

Thanks for posting those.
Can I just suggest that you post the current tables as well for easy comparison?

Edited by trogggy, 15 April 2012 - 20:10.

[velgajski1]

It's funny how move from 2003-2009 system to new one was made to award wins more, but in spite that - in that old system Button would be ahead of Hamilton (due to his win vs 3rd place being Hamiltons best result), while in the new system which supposedly awards wins more its actually Hamilton who is in the lead.

[D.M.N.]

Thanks for posting those.
Can I just suggest that you post the current tables as well for easy comparison?

How's the above?

[trogggy]

How's the above?

Great.
Shame there's not a thanks button for threads like this.

[Grundle]

Compared to the old systems, 3rd place is really rewarded handsomely. Relative to a victory, it isnt punished compared with 10-8-6, but 2nd place is because it would be 25-20-15 otherwise

[Bloggsworth]

Championship standings under a made-up scoring system which will best suit my driver

1. Stirling Moss
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Peter Collins

Why do we have these pointless threads?

[Bartel]

I find the new points system a little silly, I mean, the points at the end of the year, just look blown way out of proportion, I quite liked the 2003 - 2009 system. This system can be very rewarding if your competitor fails to score but at the same time I just think the points table at the end of the year looks over the top. If they wanted to reward wins more they could have just left it as it was and given 1st place 12 or 15 points instead of the 10. If you were second and a win was worth 7 extra points I think you'd have a go.

[PorcupineTroy]

Championship standings under a made-up scoring system which will best suit my driver

1. Stirling Moss
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Peter Collins

Why do we have these pointless threads?

These old points systems are not made up. In fact, they were used in F1 only a couple of years ago.

[Bartel]

Championship standings under a made-up scoring system which will best suit my driver

1. Stirling Moss
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Peter Collins

Why do we have these pointless threads?

Come on mate, its all in good taste there are alot of other threads here that are silly, like the 3 seperate threads asking if the Chinese Grand Prix was good or not

[robefc]

It's funny how move from 2003-2009 system to new one was made to award wins more, but in spite that - in that old system Button would be ahead of Hamilton (due to his win vs 3rd place being Hamiltons best result), while in the new system which supposedly awards wins more its actually Hamilton who is in the lead.

It's the second place that is worth less relative to third that's making the difference though, the win is worth more. Was pointd out in the post quoted below.

Compared to the old systems, 3rd place is really rewarded handsomely. Relative to a victory, it isnt punished compared with 10-8-6, but 2nd place is because it would be 25-20-15 otherwise

I think they wanted to increase only the value of a win, not the value of any other positions (apart from ones that were previously non scoring) but they didn't actually look at the maths involved at all, poor old second place got stung big time!

Edited by robefc, 15 April 2012 - 23:30.

[aditya-now]

I find the new points system a little silly, I mean, the points at the end of the year, just look blown way out of proportion, I quite liked the 2003 - 2009 system. This system can be very rewarding if your competitor fails to score but at the same time I just think the points table at the end of the year looks over the top. If they wanted to reward wins more they could have just left it as it was and given 1st place 12 or 15 points instead of the 10. If you were second and a win was worth 7 extra points I think you'd have a go.

I concur. The end of season standings give me no clear idea these days. Pre-2010 it was always an achievement if a driver was scoring over 100 points and it really meant something. Where is this threshold now?

[Bartel]

I concur. The end of season standings give me no clear idea these days. Pre-2010 it was always an achievement if a driver was scoring over 100 points and it really meant something. Where is this threshold now?

It also exaggerates the lead a driver can have in the championship, I mean last year when they were saying Vettel is ahead by 80+ points really painted a false picture for the casual person who, if knowing that, might have just switched off. Its a different kettle of fish a driver being 30 points down (3 races in old system) to 75 points down (current system) for people who don't understand the scoring, but its not going to change so I guess I'll just shut up now

[Nustang70]

Compared to the old systems, 3rd place is really rewarded handsomely. Relative to a victory, it isnt punished compared with 10-8-6, but 2nd place is because it would be 25-20-15 otherwise

The current points system seems so clumsy. I've always felt that 20-14-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 accomplishes the same expansion to 10 points paying positions while maintaining proportional increases in rewards and increasing the relative difference between 1st and 2cd.

[mdaclarke]

This thread is pointless (but fun) as teams and drivers would alter their driving styles and tactics depending on the point system. For example a driver would be content to finish 7th or 8th now but 20 years ago they would be pushing to get in the top 6.

[KmR]

I concur. The end of season standings give me no clear idea these days. Pre-2010 it was always an achievement if a driver was scoring over 100 points and it really meant something. Where is this threshold now?

I really agree. Although the new system isn't that new anymore, I still have no "feeling" for it. So it's pretty nice to see the points in the old system again

[Wander]

I concur. The end of season standings give me no clear idea these days. Pre-2010 it was always an achievement if a driver was scoring over 100 points and it really meant something. Where is this threshold now?

At 300 points, pretty much. Or a bit less if you want a direct comparison to 100 with the old system (as 10 wins with current system is 250 points and then was 100 points), but with the reliability of today we might as well put it at 300. Last year Vettel collected 392 points. In the 10-6-4-3-2-1 system he would have scored 147 points. More than anyone ever in that system. But, it was not quite as dominant as Schumacher in 2002 considering that he scored 144 points with 2 rounds less (and we can see that just looking at the results too of course).

In the previous system Vettel would've scored 161 points, which would have also been a record. This time more comfortably.

The only real reason people have a problem with the new system is that they like their 10-based number system, cause it's easy to understand. It's harder to have a "feeling" for a system that starts at 25, cause it's more difficult to see the correlation with the following nubmers (18, 15, so on) cause your brain is used to handling things in tens.

In terms of determining the order in the field, giving points to more people is obviously good with the current reliability standards. It just unfortunately makes it more difficult to comprehend.

[D.M.N.]

Update after 4 rounds, red is the current total:

2003 to 2009 System (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 22 pts (53) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 20 pts (48) - Mark Webber
03 - 19 pts (49) - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 18 pts (43) - Jenson Button
05 - 16 pts (43) - Fernando Alonso
06 - 14 pts (35) - Nico Rosberg
== - 14 pts (34) - Kimi Raikkonen
08 - 9 pts (22) - Sergio Perez
== - 9 pts (23) - Romain Grosjean
10 - 5 pts (14) - Bruno Senna
== - 5 pts (15) - Paul di Resta
12 - 3 pts (9) - Kamui Kobayashi
13 - 1 pt (4) - Jean Eric Vergne
== - 1 pt (4) - Pastor Maldonaldo

Constructors' Championship
01 - 42 pts (101) - Red Bull
02 - 37 pts (92) - McLaren
03 - 23 pts (57) - Lotus
04 - 16 pts (45) - Ferrari
05 - 14 pts (37) - Mercedes
06 - 12 pts (31) - Sauber
07 - 6 pts (18) - Williams
08 - 5 pts (17) - Force India
09 - 1 pt (6) - Toro Rosso

1991 to 2002 System (10-6-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 18 pts (53) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 16 pts (43) - Jenson Button
03 - 12 pts (49) - Lewis Hamilton
== - 12 pts (43) - Fernando Alonso
== - 12 pts (35) - Nico Rosberg
== - 12 pts (48) - Mark Webber
07 - 8 pts (34) - Kimi Raikkonen
08 - 6 pts (22) - Sergio Perez
09 - 5 pts (23) - Romain Grosjean
10 - 1 pt (9) - Kamui Kobayashi
== - 1 pt (14) - Bruno Senna
== - 1 pt (15) - Paul di Resta

Constructors' Championship
01 - 30 pts (101) - Red Bull
02 - 28 pts (92) - McLaren
03 - 13 pts (57) - Lotus
04 - 12 pts (45) - Ferrari
== - 12 pts (37) - Mercedes
06 - 7 pts (31) - Sauber
07 - 1 pt (18) - Williams
== - 1 pt (17) - Force India

Comparisons have been made with 2003, here's an interest stat:

- the first four races of both seasons had different winners
- race 4 in 2003 was won by Michael Schumacher after a mediocre start to the year. He won the championship at the final round
- race 4 in 2012 was won by Sebastian Vettel after a mediocre start to the year. He.....???

The only difference, in 2003, is that Schumacher (unlike Vettel) did not leave round 4 with the championship lead. Under the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system, Schumacher had 18 points in 2003. The championship leader, Kimi Raikkonen had 32 points. Vettel has 22 points (under the 2003 system) at the moment.

[D.M.N.]

Update after 5 rounds, red is the current total:

2003 to 2009 System (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 25 pts (61) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 24 pts (61) - Fernando Alonso
03 - 20 pts (48) - Mark Webber
== - 20 pts (53) - Lewis Hamilton
05 - 19 pts (49) - Kimi Raikkonen
06 - 18 pts (45) - Jenson Button
07 - 16 pts (41) - Nico Rosberg
08 - 14 pts (35) - Romain Grosjean
09 - 11 pts (29) - Pastor Maldonaldo
10 - 9 pts (22) - Sergio Perez
11 - 7 pts (19) - Kamui Kobayashi
12 - 5 pts (14) - Bruno Senna
== - 5 pts (15) - Paul di Resta
14 - 1 pt (4) - Jean Eric Vergne

Constructors' Championship
01 - 45 pts (109) - Red Bull
02 - 38 pts (98) - McLaren
03 - 33 pts (84) - Lotus
04 - 24 pts (63) - Ferrari
05 - 16 pts (43) - Mercedes
== - 16 pts (41) - Sauber
== - 16 pts (43) - Williams
08 - 5 pts (18) - Force India
09 - 1 pt (6) - Toro Rosso

1991 to 2002 System (10-6-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 19 pts (61) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 18 pts (61) - Fernando Alonso
03 - 16 pts (45) - Jenson Button
04 - 12 pts (49) - Lewis Hamilton
== - 12 pts (41) - Nico Rosberg
== - 12 pts (48) - Mark Webber
== - 12 pts (49) - Kimi Raikkonen
08 - 10 pts (29) - Pastor Maldonaldo
09 - 8 pts (35) - Romain Grosjean
10 - 6 pts (22) - Sergio Perez
11 - 3 pt (19) - Kamui Kobayashi
== - 1 pt (14) - Bruno Senna
== - 1 pt (15) - Paul di Resta

Constructors' Championship
01 - 31 pts (109) - Red Bull
02 - 28 pts (98) - McLaren
03 - 20 pts (84) - Lotus
04 - 18 pts (63) - Ferrari
05 - 12 pts (43) - Mercedes
06 - 11 pts (43) - Williams
07 - 9 pts (41) - Sauber
08 - 1 pt (18) - Force India

19 points or 25 points after 5 races really illustrates the closeness between the drivers' and teams' for me. Extremely close under the old system. Interestingly, Vettel is ahead in both systems whereas with today's system he is tied with Alonso.

[Disgrace]

I would just like to pop by and express my thanks for doing the maths so I don't have to.

[gm914]

Thanks. Top effort.

Except the first column should read 5th-11th, not 4th-11th.

[D.M.N.]

Thanks. Top effort.

Except the first column should read 5th-11th, not 4th-11th.

Good spot, fixed.

And thanks both.

[aditya-now]

19 points or 25 points after 5 races really illustrates the closeness between the drivers' and teams' for me. Extremely close under the old system. Interestingly, Vettel is ahead in both systems whereas with today's system he is tied with Alonso.

Quite remarkable, and it also outlines how much the new system blurs the real situation, while not being as precise as any of the older systems, thereby creating the draw between Vettel and Alonso.

Thanks for the maths!

[Wander]

Quite remarkable, and it also outlines how much the new system blurs the real situation, while not being as precise as any of the older systems, thereby creating the draw between Vettel and Alonso.

Thanks for the maths!

"The new system blurs the real situation"??? REALLY? "Not being as precise"??? Are you kidding me?

I hope you are because, if anything, the opposite is true.

Do you at all understand what makes the difference between the old and the new system? Explanation: Alonso has a 9th place finish that gives him 2 points, which he would not have received under old points scoring systems. This is the only difference the new system makes between the two. Let me ask you, How is this less precise? Let me say it again, if anything, this is more precise, because while Alonso and Vettel otherwise have an identical tally of results, Vettel has a 6th place finish against Alonso's 7th place finish while Alonso has a 9th place finish against an 11th place finish by Vettel.

What the new system does is make these finishes more relevant, thus promoting Alonso, because the difference between a 9th and 11th place finish is effectively now the same as the difference between a 6th and 7th place finishes.

I understand that you are biased towards the old system due to probably following F1 for a long time before the recent changes, but that does not give you the right to state things that are blatantly not true. The new system does not blur anything. All it does in comparison to old systems is reward places 7-10, which were not rewarded before. I repeat, this does not blur anything, it just makes finishes to those places matter whereas previously they didn't.

Also, the difference between a win and a second place was huge in the 90s and then it was too small with the 10-8 system. Current system is between those two in terms of balance. (18/25 = 0.72 = 72%)

You can of course prefer one of the old systems if you prefer the balance it had between different finishing positions or you liked the clarity or whatever, but the fact is, they were no more precise. That's bullshit. Did you notice that the 10-6 system has Nico, Mark and Kimi all equal in points while the new system manages to separate them?

Edited by Wander, 20 May 2012 - 15:01.

[aditya-now]

"The new system blurs the real situation"??? REALLY? "Not being as precise"??? Are you kidding me?

I hope you are because, if anything, the opposite is true.

Do you at all understand what makes the difference between the old and the new system? Explanation: Alonso has a 9th place finish that gives him 2 points, which he would not have received under old points scoring systems. This is the only difference the new system makes between the two. Let me ask you, How is this less precise? Let me say it again, if anything, this is more precise, because while Alonso and Vettel otherwise have an identical tally of results, Vettel has a 6th place finish against Alonso's 7th place finish while Alonso has a 9th place finish against an 11th place finish by Vettel.

What the new system does is make these finishes more relevant, thus promoting Alonso, because the difference between a 9th and 11th place finish is effectively now the same as the difference between a 6th and 7th place finishes.

I understand that you are biased towards the old system due to probably following F1 for a long time before the recent changes, but that does not give you the right to state things that are blatantly not true. The new system does not blur anything. All it does in comparison to old systems is reward places 7-10, which were not rewarded before. I repeat, this does not blur anything, it just makes finishes to those places matter whereas previously they didn't.

Also, the difference between a win and a second place was huge in the 90s and then it was too small with the 10-8 system. Current system is between those two in terms of balance. (18/25 = 0.72 = 72%)

You can of course prefer one of the old systems if you prefer the balance it had between different finishing positions or you liked the clarity or whatever, but the fact is, they were no more precise. That's bullshit. Did you notice that the 10-6 system has Nico, Mark and Kimi all equal in points while the new system manages to separate them?

Thanks, Wander, for illumining me. You are right on many accounts and nonetheless, I prefer the 9-6-4-3-2-1 system with all its weaknesses - it is not even mentioned here. The present system is just inflatory and has destroyed all historic comparability.

[Seanspeed]

Thanks, Wander, for illumining me. You are right on many accounts and nonetheless, I prefer the 9-6-4-3-2-1 system with all its weaknesses - it is not even mentioned here. The present system is just inflatory and has destroyed all historic comparability.

So did having twice as many races on the calendar than they did back in the 60's.

He seemed to be spot on, though. You just prefer the old system out of tradition rather than realize the new way is a more accurate and fair assessment of a driver's season.

[AlexS]

There was also a time when the drivers had to drop the worst championship results . For example a driver had 12 races in points of 14 it could only count 10 results to the championship, so the two worst results had to be dropped. This doesn't seem to be accounted here but i don't remember if it still existed in 90's

Edited by AlexS, 21 May 2012 - 03:52.

[Wander]

There was also a time when the drivers had to drop the worst championship results . For example a driver had 12 races in points of 14 it could only count 10 results to the championship, so the two worst results had to be dropped. This doesn't seem to be accounted here but i don't remember if it still existed in 90's

Yeah, Only best 11 (of 16) counted towards championship in 1988-1990 seasons.

[BigCHrome]

Yeah, Only best 11 (of 16) counted towards championship in 1988-1990 seasons.

That was nice when there were car failures all the time, but now it makes no sense. Only punishes the consistent drivers.

[HP]

I was wondering how to expand the points list, that gives points to each and every driver? That could help differentiate even better.

That was nice when there were car failures all the time, but now it makes no sense. Only punishes the consistent drivers.

It punished the consistent drivers back then as well. AP/AS anyone? Plus if a driver binned the car because he overdid it, that doesn't show up in the tally, so what? The rule was nonsensical to me.

Car failures were partially because teams and suppliers were pushing too hard in their manufacturing processes without a good quality control in place. So that point system was for curing the symptoms rather than treating the real ill.

[Wander]

There were apparently such rules in use in the 60s and 50s as well, wiki says:

-1967 and 1968 best 5 of the first 6 and 4 of the last 5 counted towards the championship.
-1966 best 5 of 9
-1963-1965 best 6 of 10
-1962 5 of 9
-1961 5 of 8
-1960 6 of 9

And similar rules for the seasons in the 50s.

Tbh. I can sort of get it in that period and luckily it didn't ever decide many championships.

[PayasYouRace]

There was also a time when the drivers had to drop the worst championship results . For example a driver had 12 races in points of 14 it could only count 10 results to the championship, so the two worst results had to be dropped. This doesn't seem to be accounted here but i don't remember if it still existed in 90's

It was actually 1991 that was the first season where all scores counted. Every year before that the system was a variation of picking your best x results from the season. It was only usually the top drivers that ended up dropping scores and rarely did it decide the championship. Take 1986 for example. How often is it mentioned that both Prost and Mansell dropped 2 points each (2 sixths for Alain and 1 fifth for Nigel)?

However in the modern era when a driver could realistically be expected to score in every race, it doesn't really make sense. Having said that, dropped scores encourages drivers to go for the best result when they can, and generally favours winning over consistency.

[PayasYouRace]

There were apparently such rules in use in the 60s and 50s as well, wiki says:

-1967 and 1968 best 5 of the first 6 and 4 of the last 5 counted towards the championship.
-1966 best 5 of 9
-1963-1965 best 6 of 10
-1962 5 of 9
-1961 5 of 8
-1960 6 of 9

And similar rules for the seasons in the 50s.

Tbh. I can sort of get it in that period and luckily it didn't ever decide many championships.

I find it interesting that people often moan about 1988, but rarely is 1964 brought up in that context. Graham Hill's 2 dropped points from Belgium would have made him champion that year.

[D.M.N.]

Update after 7 rounds, red is the current total:

2003 to 2009 System (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 35 pts (85) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 34 pts (86) - Fernando Alonso
== - 34 pts (88) - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 32 pts (79) - Mark Webber
05 - 27 pts (67) - Nico Rosberg
06 - 22 pts (53) - Romain Grosjean
07 - 20 pts (55) - Kimi Raikkonen
08 - 18 pts (45) - Jenson Button
09 - 15 pts (37) - Sergio Perez
10 - 11 pts (29) - Pastor Maldonaldo
11 - 7 pts (21) - Kamui Kobayashi
== - 7 pts (21) - Paul di Resta
13 - 5 pts (15) - Bruno Senna
14 - 3 pt (11) - Felipe Massa
15 - 1 pt (4) - Jean Eric Vergne
== - 1 pt (7) - Nico Hulkenberg

Constructors' Championship
01 - 67 pts (164) - Red Bull
02 - 52 pts (133) - McLaren
03 - 42 pts (108) - Lotus
04 - 37 pts (97) - Ferrari
05 - 27 pts (69) - Mercedes
06 - 22 pts (58) - Sauber
07 - 16 pts (44) - Williams
08 - 8 pts (28) - Force India
09 - 1 pt (6) - Toro Rosso

1991 to 2002 System (10-6-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 25 pts (85) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 24 pts (86) - Fernando Alonso
== - 24 pts (88) - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 22 pts (79) - Mark Webber
05 - 19 pts (67) - Nico Rosberg
06 - 16 pts (45) - Jenson Button
07 - 14 pts (53) - Romain Grosjean
08 - 12 pts (55) - Kimi Raikkonen
09 - 10 pts (29) - Pastor Maldonaldo
== - 10 pts (37) - Sergio Perez
11 - 3 pt (21) - Kamui Kobayashi
12 - 1 pt (15) - Bruno Senna
== - 1 pt (21) - Paul di Resta
== - 1 pt (11) - Felipe Massa

Constructors' Championship
01 - 47 pts (164) - Red Bull
02 - 40 pts (133) - McLaren
03 - 26 pts (108) - Lotus
04 - 25 pts (97) - Ferrari
05 - 19 pts (69) - Mercedes
06 - 13 pts (58) - Sauber
07 - 11 pts (44) - Williams
08 - 1 pt (28) - Force India

Interesting, assuming I've calculated it all right, Vettel leads in both old money charts, whereas he is third in the present day standings.

[RB213]

very interesting indeed... i always like to know what the standings would be under the old systems so thank you very much for the calculations.

[velgajski1]

So did having twice as many races on the calendar than they did back in the 60's.

He seemed to be spot on, though. You just prefer the old system out of tradition rather than realize the new way is a more accurate and fair assessment of a driver's season.

This. So many people seem to forget this. It is utterly ridiculous to look at historic lists with number of wins, they give completely warped picture. I'd like to see % of wins lists (with those with less than 10GP races not being included), it may give a bit different picture.

By looking at lists Fernando Alonso and Nigel Mansell are better than Jim Clark (and Jackie Stewart). Does anyone believe this?

Also, Hamilton, Vettel and Kimi have already surpassed Stirling Moss, Alberto Ascari, Jack Brabham, Emerson Fittipaldi, etc.

Historic comparisons are always pointless unless done with % in mind.

[AvranaKern]

That new system suggest this: Just try to finish in Top 10. Whatever you do, finish in the points.

[undersquare]

That new system suggest this: Just try to finish in Top 10. Whatever you do, finish in the points.

1 point in every race would have you in 15th atm...

[Alarcon]

Update after 7 rounds, red is the current total:

2003 to 2009 System (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 35 pts (85) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 34 pts (86) - Fernando Alonso
== - 34 pts (88) - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 32 pts (79) - Mark Webber
05 - 27 pts (67) - Nico Rosberg
06 - 22 pts (53) - Romain Grosjean
07 - 20 pts (55) - Kimi Raikkonen
08 - 18 pts (45) - Jenson Button
09 - 15 pts (37) - Sergio Perez
10 - 11 pts (29) - Pastor Maldonaldo
11 - 7 pts (21) - Kamui Kobayashi
== - 7 pts (21) - Paul di Resta
13 - 5 pts (15) - Bruno Senna
14 - 3 pt (11) - Felipe Massa
15 - 1 pt (4) - Jean Eric Vergne
== - 1 pt (7) - Nico Hulkenberg

Constructors' Championship
01 - 67 pts (164) - Red Bull
02 - 52 pts (133) - McLaren
03 - 42 pts (108) - Lotus
04 - 37 pts (97) - Ferrari
05 - 27 pts (69) - Mercedes
06 - 22 pts (58) - Sauber
07 - 16 pts (44) - Williams
08 - 8 pts (28) - Force India
09 - 1 pt (6) - Toro Rosso

1991 to 2002 System (10-6-4-3-2-1)
Drivers' Championship
01 - 25 pts (85) - Sebastian Vettel
02 - 24 pts (86) - Fernando Alonso
== - 24 pts (88) - Lewis Hamilton
04 - 22 pts (79) - Mark Webber
05 - 19 pts (67) - Nico Rosberg
06 - 16 pts (45) - Jenson Button
07 - 14 pts (53) - Romain Grosjean
08 - 12 pts (55) - Kimi Raikkonen
09 - 10 pts (29) - Pastor Maldonaldo
== - 10 pts (37) - Sergio Perez
11 - 3 pt (21) - Kamui Kobayashi
12 - 1 pt (15) - Bruno Senna
== - 1 pt (21) - Paul di Resta
== - 1 pt (11) - Felipe Massa

Constructors' Championship
01 - 47 pts (164) - Red Bull
02 - 40 pts (133) - McLaren
03 - 26 pts (108) - Lotus
04 - 25 pts (97) - Ferrari
05 - 19 pts (69) - Mercedes
06 - 13 pts (58) - Sauber
07 - 11 pts (44) - Williams
08 - 1 pt (28) - Force India

Interesting, assuming I've calculated it all right, Vettel leads in both old money charts, whereas he is third in the present day standings.

Very nice job mate!

Glad to see Vettel would lead... however the difference is the same because we are talking about just a position. On the next race Alonso finish 3th, Lewis 4th and Vettel 5th and the new lead would be Alonso (just as example). Very close and very exciting!

[MrAerodynamicist]

Rather than start a new thread; here's the standing under a system that never was....

Countback
01 +1 ALO 1,2,2,4,5,5,7,9
02 +1 VET 1,2,4,4,5,6,11
03 +2 ROS 1,2,5,6,7,12,13
04 +4 BUT 1,2,9,14,16,16
05 -4 HAM 1,3,3,3,5,8,8
06 -2 WEB 1,4,4,4,4,7,11
07 +3 MAL 1,8,13,13,19,DNF,DNF
08 -1 GRO 2,3,4,6,DNF,DNF,DNF
09 -3 RAI 2,3,5,7,8,9,14
10 -1 PER 2,3,8,11,11,11,DNF
11 -- KOB 5,6,9,10,13,DNF,DNF
12 -- DIR 6,7,7,10,11,12,14
13 -- SEN 6,7,10,17,16,22,DNF
14 -- MAS 6,9,10,13,15,DNFET
15 -- HUL 8,9,10,12,12,15,DNF
16 -- VER 8,11,12,12,14,15,17
17 -- RIC 9,12,13,14,15,17,DNF
18 -- MS 10,10,DNF,DNF,DNF,DNF,DNF
19 -- KOV 14,16,17,18,18,23,DNF
20 -- GLO 14,14,17,18,19,19,DNF
21 -- PIC 15,20,20,20,DNF,DNF,DNF
22 -- KAR 15,21,22,DNF,DNF,DNQ
23 -- PET 16,16,17,18,19,DNF,DNQ
24 -- DLR 19,20,21,21,DNF,DNF,DNQ

The second column is the difference to the actual ranking (ie. Alonso is one place higher)

[robefc]

19 points or 25 points after 5 races really illustrates the closeness between the drivers' and teams' for me. Extremely close under the old system. Interestingly, Vettel is ahead in both systems whereas with today's system he is tied with Alonso.

I really hope you have a spreadsheet rather than having to do the maths after each race?!

As a Lewis fan I vote the new system the best*




* reserve right to change my mind after each race!

Hmmmm, I wonder if one of the options involving dropping some race results gives lewis the 2007/10 WDCS?

[MrAerodynamicist]

Tangent:
It'd never work because of DNFs, but I like the idea of doing the championship Tour de France styles as a sum of the race times. The WDC would literally be the guy who completed the season quickest. Also there'd be no cruising to protect gearboxes and engines, every second would count.

[PayasYouRace]

Tangent:
It'd never work because of DNFs, but I like the idea of doing the championship Tour de France styles as a sum of the race times. The WDC would literally be the guy who completed the season quickest. Also there'd be no cruising to protect gearboxes and engines, every second would count.

That could work by giving a DNF or even a non-start the maximum race time. Fail to finish and you have 2 hours added to your championship.

Anyone mad enough to want to work out this year's standings using this system?

[sopa]

What about lapped drivers? As they don't complete all laps do they get a penalty for each lap they didn't complete? In the same way retired drivers can be penalized.

[Lights]

I really hope you have a spreadsheet rather than having to do the maths after each race?!

It can be found here as well: http://f1-facts.com/...ions-comparison

Hmmmm, I wonder if one of the options involving dropping some race results gives lewis the 2007/10 WDCS?

Checked this using the above link, assuming it's utilized correctly. Doesn't look like it, sorry dude!

In fact, with the current points system, Alonso beat Hamilton in 2007*.

*just started WW3

[robefc]

It can be found here as well: http://f1-facts.com/...ions-comparison

Checked this using the above link, assuming it's utilized correctly. Doesn't look like it, sorry dude!

In fact, with the current points system, Alonso beat Hamilton in 2007*.

*just started WW3

Has hands over ears and is shouting 'lalalalalalala' at top of voice...hmmm maybe hands over eyes would work better?

[Lights]

Has hands over ears and is shouting 'lalalalalalala' at top of voice...hmmm maybe hands over eyes would work better?

[scheivlak]

01 +1 ALO 1,2,2,4,5,5,7,9

For ALO it's 1,2,3,5,5,7,9
(he's still #1 though)

[PayasYouRace]

What about lapped drivers? As they don't complete all laps do they get a penalty for each lap they didn't complete? In the same way retired drivers can be penalized.

Let's say add their average flying laptime for every lap they didn't complete if they were still running at the finish.