Auto Union Streamliner - Reims 1938
#1
Posted 25 March 2012 - 16:34
What race number did Rudi Hasse have for the Streamliner that he crashed in practice?
On page 191 of the Auto Union Album the photograph of the damaged car in the cornfield shows the car without any numbers on the bodywork, on page 187 the photograph of the car in the pits has a number on the offside which is partially obscured - it might be 18.
Would anyone know if it was number 18 and whether the car actually ran with it in place during practice.
Thanks for any help.
David
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#2
Posted 25 March 2012 - 17:01
#3
Posted 25 March 2012 - 17:04
http://desmond.image...d...&res=medium
Both streamliners crashed within minutes of each other on the afternoon of June 30th. This is Georges Fraichard's report in Le Petit Parisien1/7/38:
What has always struck me as odd is that there seem to be no pictures of Müller's car after its adventures: if Fraichard is to be believed it must have been pretty messed up.Deux accidents produisirent mal-
heureusement ils parurent fausser
les résultats de la journée en raffine
temps qu'ils jetèrent la consternation
Hasse [Auto Union) effectua une
embardée à la sortie de Gueux et
s'immobilisa dans un champ. Mais
il se tira indemne de l'aventure.
Les coureura pouvaient considérer
avoir ainsi payé leur tribut au sort
mauvais Il n'en était rien, Hélas
peu avant 16 heures, on apprenalt
que Muller venait à son tout d'être
victime d'un accident. Sa voiture
s'était mise à zigzaguer peu après
Gueux dans un léger virage. Elle
avait escaladé un vallon et, reve-
nant sur la toute. avait effectué deux
ou trois loopings.
Le coureur allemand Muller a été
radiographié à la fin de l'après-midi.
On a constaté qu'il était atteint d'une
fracture du sacrum. $on état quoi-
que sérieux, n'inspire pas d'inquié-
tude.
#4
Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:02
The picture you sent the link to is also in the Nixon book.
I hadn't realised there were two streamliners entered and crashed during Reims practice so I wonder if it was the Muller car ran that without race numbers and has been wrongly captioned in the book?
David
#5
Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:33
#6
Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:27
David
Edited by David Lawson, 26 March 2012 - 08:27.
#7
Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:39
which if correct would indicate that Hasse drove and crashed the #18 streamliner, and Müller the unnumbered version.[in practice] Hasse destroyed his car completely but was unhurt. Müller's car on the other hand was only slightly damaged but the driver was unable to race further and had to be replaced by Kautz.
Edited by Tim Murray, 26 March 2012 - 09:40.
#9
Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:24
#10
Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:41
Just speculation, but if the Black Book is correct on the numbering, then perhaps Müller was down to drive a streamliner, with Hasse (and Kautz?) having the choice of a streamliner or a C/D, with that second streamliner being an un-numbered T-car?
I've been trying to find more practice reports, but Gallica seeems to be a bit "Monday-morning-ish" today and has just crashed completely!
#11
Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:44
-from official programme:
16 Muller
18 Hasse
20 Kautz
-from The Motor July 5,1938 pp1045 to 1048, about the ACF GP:
on the starting line:
16 Hasse
20 Kautz
About practce:
"Thursday's practice showed the Auto-Union if anything faster than the Mercedes down the Garenne Straight, but slower on the lap. Which may be due to the rather inferior abilities of Hasse and Muller. Anyway, the cars didn't seem to handle too well and then both Hasse and Muller piled up for no apparent reason on the back leg of the course. Hasse up-ended the super-streamlined car which was being used owing to the high speeds expected on this circuit. Muller went end over end and was removed to hospital with injuries which, while not severe, will kept him out of racing for some time. This left Kautz and Hasse, with two ordinary cars.
At one time it looked as if Auto-Union would withdrew, as they had lost one driver and the fastest car."
So only one stremlined car!
#12
Posted 26 March 2012 - 13:42
Equally, I'll admit that a copy-taker might have missed the word "une", since the full sentence as published is "Muller et Hasse, qui pilotent pour Auto Union voitures nouvelles entièrement carénées ..."
But later in the report - discussing the possibility the race might be cancelled - it says "Deux des trois étant indisponibles, une seule voiture de cette marque pouvait prendre le départ dimanche." So - two damaged, one serviceable? Yet it would seem highly unlikely AU would arrive at a GP without at least one spare car - and in the end they ran two C/Ds.
I'd also like a definite meaning for un looping: a spin? Or a roll? Going up a bank and then "regaining the road" could suggest either, although The Motor's report seems to suggest a roll.
#13
Posted 26 March 2012 - 14:17
#14
Posted 26 March 2012 - 14:24
#15
Posted 26 March 2012 - 14:33
Leif Snellman (Golden Era)
16. Kautz
18. Hasse
20. Müller
F1 Register Black Book
16. Kautz
18. Müller
20. Hasse
Programme
16. Müller
18. Hasse
20. Kautz
Curiouser and curiouser.
Edited by Tim Murray, 26 March 2012 - 14:40.
#16
Posted 26 March 2012 - 14:34
#17
Posted 26 March 2012 - 15:16
THe mystery seems to be a picture of a streamlined car in the pits with number 18 and another of it crashed with no number.
#18
Posted 26 March 2012 - 15:48
David
#19
Posted 26 March 2012 - 15:58
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#20
Posted 26 March 2012 - 16:40
#21
Posted 26 March 2012 - 17:27
I also wonder what Don Alfredo is thinking.
#22
Posted 26 March 2012 - 17:39
#23
Posted 26 March 2012 - 17:42
Two comparison pictures. Langheck:
Kurzheck:
#24
Posted 26 March 2012 - 20:16
June 30th: AU have arrived with four cars. C/Ds for Müller (#16) and Kautz (#20). D-type streamliner for Hasse (#18) plus a second streamliner as spare car - unnumbered. Hasse's car gives trouble and he takes over the spare. So in this picture we see Neubauer spying on whatever the problem might be, while an AU mechanic fettles the spare car in the background:
Hasse crashes the spare streamliner:
Müller then crashes #16:
Kautz is fastest AU driver by some margin.
July 1st: Hasse's #18 is now repaired and he runs this in practice. Kautz again runs #20 and is once more faster than Hasse. Meanwhile, having been persuaded not to go home, AU commence repairs on Müller's #16 in case it is needed as a spare.
July 2nd: Hasse continues to practice in the #18 streamliner, but is still unable to beat Kautz's times in the C/D. (NB: this was the only time Kautz out-qualified Hasse in 1938.)
July 3rd: Hasse exercises droit de seigneur as team leader and - either because he considers the #18 car uncompetitive or it's broken down again (or even because he's German and Kautz isn't?) - takes over the faster (and uncrashed) #20 C/D, relegating Kautz to the hastily-repaired #16. This happens late on the morning of the race and there is no time to swap numbers.
On lap 1 of the race, Hasse spins off early, while Kautz hits a kerb and retires with a broken rear axle (already weakened by Müller's crash?)
#25
Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:14
We now know that Müller didn’t crash a streamliner, but the implication as I read it is that Fellowes missed only the first day of practice. If this is correct the remaining streamliner didn’t appear again, or he would surely have photographed it.Auto Union caused a sensation by sending two brand new streamliners to France but, sadly, Rudolf Hasse and H.P. Müller crashed both on the first day of practice! (Fellowes was not present, so there are no pictures of these intriguing cars, which never appeared again).
#26
Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:06
I no longer have mine, but seem to recall it had detailed reports of which car was used when. Perhaps it didn't do so for every race...
#27
Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:16
I have two. (East and West German editions - just for completeness!)Does anyone have a copy of Peter Kirchberg's Grand-Prix-Report Auto Union 1934-39?
I no longer have mine, but seem to recall it had detailed reports of which car was used when. Perhaps it didn't do so for every race...
But there's nothing about the 1938 French GP.
#28
Posted 27 March 2012 - 18:19
I haven't solved David's original question, but I have found a few more details.
Firstly, just when you thought it couldn't get more complicated, according to Le Matin (1/7), Müller was driving Kautz's car (which agrees with the Black Book numbering). It also gives a description of his accident - including the fact that it dropped 2 metres off a bank - and says that AU had already requested and been granted a special practice session on Saturday morning from 6-8.
The following day Le Figaro tells us that "... les dirigeants de la firme [AU] ont déclaré qu'ils feraient face à leurs obligations et qu'ils présenteraient le troisième bolide et une voiture de remplacement". However, there is no indication anywhere whether this voiture de remplacement was to be the car Müller had crashed or a fresh chassis from Zwickau. Also on July 2nd, Le Matin reported that the previous day "Une seule Auto Union pilotée successivement par Hasse et Kautz a tourné prudemment ..." This is confirmed in Le Petit Parisien.
The voiture de remplacement presumably arrived on (or had been repaired by) July 1st, since Le Figaro's report of that final session on the 2nd tells us that: "Seules ont roulé les deux voitures Auto Union."
Finally, some more entry lists:
Le Matin and Le Petit Parisien (2/7): 16 Kautz 18 Hasse
Le Figaro (3/7): 16 Kautz 20 Hasse
#29
Posted 27 March 2012 - 23:42
Kautz' 2'41" was better than the time credited to him on the grid. Was Thursday practice unofficial or did he change cars later in practice?The Fraichard report I quoted confirms that both Müller and Hasse were both driving "voitures nouvelles entièrement carénées" on June 30th. He also gives practice times for all three drivers: Kautz 2'41", Hasse 2'51" and Müller 2'53". I also found times for the following day in l'Ouest Éclair: Kautz 2'47.1" and Hasse 2'50.9". Same paper also gives an unattributed 2'44.8" for an Auto Union on July 2nd - presumably Kautz? - and also supplies the time the organisers "forgot" to issue for the SEFAC - 3'25.2". I've seen another report which excuses Chaboud's performance on the grounds that he was unfamiliar with blown cars (Sorry - O/T!)
Just speculation, but if the Black Book is correct on the numbering, then perhaps Müller was down to drive a streamliner, with Hasse (and Kautz?) having the choice of a streamliner or a C/D, with that second streamliner being an un-numbered T-car?
I've been trying to find more practice reports, but Gallica seeems to be a bit "Monday-morning-ish" today and has just crashed completely!
#30
Posted 28 March 2012 - 00:09
At a guess, the latter: perhaps that's the time he set up in the Saturday morning session in the spare and/or rebuilt car?Kautz' 2'41" was better than the time credited to him on the grid. Was Thursday practice unofficial or did he change cars later in practice?
#31
Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:00
I inferred from your earlier post that he set the 2'41" on the 30th.At a guess, the latter: perhaps that's the time he set up in the Saturday morning session in the spare and/or rebuilt car?
We know from previous discussions that grid positions at Reims in the 50s depended on the car, not the driver. See, for example, the thread about pole position in 1956. Did the same apply in the 30s?
As A-U asked for an extra practice session on Saturday morning (Le Matin), is it possible that they had repaired Müller's car by then and wanted to try it prior to Kautz setting his grid time (2'43") during official practice?
#32
Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:29
Practice times 30/6 as published in both l'Ouest Éclair & Le Matin on 1/7
Lang 2'39.2"
Brauchitsch 2'40.7"
Caracciola 2'41.9"
Kautz 2'43.0"
Seaman 2'43.3"
Muller 2'51.4"
Hasse 2'53.4"
Carrière 2'59.7"
Etancelin 3'01.3"
[Chaboud did not practice?]
Practice times 1/7 as published in Le Figaro 2/7. There are discrepancies in both l'Ouest Éclair & Le Matin
Seaman 2'41.6" (listed only in Le Figaro)
Caracciola 2'42.5" (2'44.4" in both l'Ouest Éclair & Le Matin)
Lang 2'42.5" (2'44.2" in both l'Ouest Éclair & Le Matin)
Brauchitsch 2'55.0"
Kautz 2'47.1 (2'47.2 in Le Matin)
Hasse 2'50.9'
Carrière 2'57.0"
(Bigalke 2'59.8" in l'Ouest Éclair only)
Etancelin 3'07.0" (3'00.7" in Le Matin)
Chaboud 3'32.0"
Practice times for the extra session 2/7 as published in Le Matin 3/7
Hasse 2'44.8"
Kautz 2'48'4"
Chaboud 3'25.2"
Grid
Lang 2'39.2" (Thursday)
Brauchitsch 2'40.7" (Thursday)
Caracciola 2'41.9" (Thursday)
Kautz 2'43.0" (Thursday)
Hasse 2'50.9" (Friday)
Carriere 2'59.7" (Thursday)
Etancelin 3'00.7" (Friday as per Le Matin)
Chaboud no official time issued
Wimille no time recorded - did not practice
Edited by Vitesse2, 31 March 2012 - 10:53.
#33
Posted 31 March 2012 - 17:22