37 replies to this topic

[Wirra]

I'll never again question the use of 'oversize' roll hoops.

See 'formula ford stack'. Looks like a Lotus formula junior?

http://www.motorspor...1-crash-photos/

[Cirrus]

The driver of the (borrowed) Lotus 18, James Owen regularly posts on Ten-Tenths as HRSTR5. He usually races his Elva 200 over here, together with his TR5 which he took to Targa Tasmania last year. The modified roll bar did its job well.

Here's the relevant thread on Ten-Tenths http://www.ten-tenth...ad.php?t=131950

[Lee Nicolle]

I did see the lotus with a broken nose cone. I did not realise it had a fairly voilent accident.
One of the FF and invited races I was talking to John Lemm and said that these historic FFs were better behaved than their modern desperado cousins,, they promptly had a lap 2 major accident with about 10 cars, both FF and historics on turn 1. That took a while to clean up.

There was several Gp Ns come unstuck. Daryl Hansen was either out of control or broke something. I feel both and came unstuck from Honda, through Siberia and started up the hill. He ended up backwards into the tyres and took a 66 Mustang with him. There was a springtime yellow Nb Mustang that hit the wall too by himself near Honda. Others too that I did not see.
The Nc Torana I was helping on said he let a couple go as they were out of control and he did not need to be punted off.and everybody threw rocks at him!! About 6 major stars on the screen. I heard similar comments in other classes too.
An international in a JKL category car came unstuck, rolled and was thrown out of the car on the final turn. Bloody dangerous and stupid with no roll bar or seat belts. I feel those entrys should not be taken, if nothing else the potential liability claims.

And the Ooops. a GpC car that drove in with a SHATTERED safety glass windscreen on lap 1 on a Saturday race. It was back Sunday however.

[Jimisgod]

How did the Porsche get so much air? Rode up the side or rear of the Lotus? He seems to be off in a big way even before the gravel starts.

There have been some terrifying rolls between the final corner and the first corner, but all I've seen involved a hefty hit with the wall on the outside.

Oh, answered here.

http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Edited by Jimisgod, 26 March 2012 - 12:53.

[johnny yuma]

How did the Porsche get so much air? Rode up the side or rear of the Lotus? He seems to be off in a big way even before the gravel starts.

There have been some terrifying rolls between the final corner and the first corner, but all I've seen involved a hefty hit with the wall on the outside.

Oh, answered here.

http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Porsche in 1996 at Amaroo -Terry Bosnjak -was attempting an inside pass on the sweeper before Stop Corner.He mounted the slightly raised ridge of earth
half way through,the front tilted up---and kept going ! He was well clear of the ground for a long fluttering flight.Perhaps with a lot of the weight behind the
back wheels,the pointy nose can easily achieve lift if given a solid upward push at high speed. He walked away to the crowd's surprise,after hitting the
embankment beyond stop corner roof-first.

Edited by johnny yuma, 27 March 2012 - 04:38.

[BMH Comic]

An international in a JKL category car came unstuck, rolled and was thrown out of the car on the final turn. Bloody dangerous and stupid with no roll bar or seat belts. I feel those entrys should not be taken, if nothing else the potential liability claims.

Hi Lee,

The Cooper didnt roll, it headbutted the wall and spun around in the process, I think the driver of the car with the roll bar possibly had more injuries than the one without, it does lend itself to the argument that vehicles of this age and type are as safe as one with safety equipment. Not that I subscribe to this but, it does bring into question the often used argument.

[GMACKIE]

All those cars are quite safe.......as long as no-one gets in and drives them. The standard of driving in Historic racing, in my opinion, is the biggest worry. That applies to other forms of motorsport as well, however the cars are usually much 'safer'.

[DanTra2858]

All those cars are quite safe.......as long as no-one gets in and drives them. The standard of driving in Historic racing, in my opinion, is the biggest worry. That applies to other forms of motorsport as well, however the cars are usually much 'safer'.

Gee Greg that is a BIG statement, are you saying that the driving standards are below standard ?

Is it the young Chargers or the Grey haired set that you are talking about.

[GMACKIE]

I suppose it was a bit 'generalised'. There are SOME that are a worry, though.

[Lola5000]

The fields are to large,to many races,at some stage in either group NC or SC there is going to be a "big one"

[Lee Nicolle]

I suppose it was a bit 'generalised'. There are SOME that are a worry, though.

I agree Greg, old or young top level or historic a lot of drivers ambition exceeds their talent and the capabilitys of their cars.

[Lee Nicolle]

Hi Lee,

The Cooper didnt roll, it headbutted the wall and spun around in the process, I think the driver of the car with the roll bar possibly had more injuries than the one without, it does lend itself to the argument that vehicles of this age and type are as safe as one with safety equipment. Not that I subscribe to this but, it does bring into question the often used argument.

Hi, I was only going on what I was told by people in pitlane. I spent most of the meeting down at Honda.
But end of story a proper harness and a rollbar will always be safer than not. Some of those cars interest me, but I am not going to drive em without proper basic safety equipment.
You were driving that high tailed car? It sounded quite strong down the straight as I watched part of one race from the spectator area near the start line.
That hiboy hotrod sounded really strong there!

[BMH Comic]

Hi, I was only going on what I was told by people in pitlane. I spent most of the meeting down at Honda.
But end of story a proper harness and a rollbar will always be safer than not. Some of those cars interest me, but I am not going to drive em without proper basic safety equipment.
You were driving that high tailed car? It sounded quite strong down the straight as I watched part of one race from the spectator area near the start line.
That hiboy hotrod sounded really strong there!

Yes that is always a problem; only believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear! (My fathers best advice.)

Certainly agree with your sentiments about basic safety equipment in roll bar and seat belts, but refuse to argue with those that suggest that you may in some instances be better off without them in cars never designed to have them, why? Because there is too much evidence around to the contrary. This accident being one of them.

The main argument as I see it is, that by fitting a strong point to retain the roll bar and seat belts at the point where the driver sits creates a stress area and crumple zone in the driver compartment which I agree with. So given the front is a fairly rigid member and then you add a rigid area behind the driver then presto the middle will fold up in an accident of this type. Add to that the driver is strapped into this zone with seat belts. If it was mandatory to fit this equipment to the car then some careful thought needs to go into the engineering of them to protect the driver and that’s why my roll bar when installed is braced to the front and not the rear. It also offers some degree of side impact protection which can not hurt. I think that we should have them but not if they are to become a hazard to the driver.

Thanks for the kind words about the “Hi Boy”!!! If you thought it sounded good off track then you should hear it from the driver’s seat!! Music!!! I did hear that they were taking bets up in the grand stand as to when it was going to blow up! Never!! Old Grey motors never die!

[Repco22]

Old Grey motors never die!

Oh!

[GMACKIE]

Like most motors, they don't just die....someone usually kills them.

[johnny yuma]

Like most motors, they don't just die....someone usually kills them.

There was a bit of attempted Old Grey Motor Euthenasia going on in the group Nb camp ,the FJ and FX holdens both failed to proceed at
various stages,the FE never got to race at all. The FX and FJ are both entered for Bathurst Easter though,so I guess they in fact never die.

[Lee Nicolle]

There was a bit of attempted Old Grey Motor Euthenasia going on in the group Nb camp ,the FJ and FX holdens both failed to proceed at
various stages,the FE never got to race at all. The FX and FJ are both entered for Bathurst Easter though,so I guess they in fact never die.

Dont know what happened to the FE, It was not even seen Friday. The 48 had a sick driver, then the replacement driver managed to spin it and get nailed by a Mini.A lot of damage to both cars.The relacement driver was racing earlies in the early 70s but seems to be more used to better handling HQs these days. Though will be running his FJ Sports Sedan at Easter. And then the rest of the meeting the car was sick, pinging its head off. The FJ broke a gearbox, then the replacement fouled on the clutch. So they were busy.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 28 March 2012 - 06:03.

[eldougo]

All those cars are quite safe.......as long as no-one gets in and drives them. The standard of driving in Historic racing, in my opinion, is the biggest worry. That applies to other forms of motorsport as well, however the cars are usually much 'safer'.

What Greg has said is VERY TRUE that is one of the reasons i got out of Historic racing 10 years ago.

[Lola5000]

What Greg has said is VERY TRUE that is one of the reasons i got out of Historic racing 10 years ago.

same with me i got out about 7 years,was sick and tired of car damage and little men waving there CAMS manual at me,I just did a trip from Brisbane to Melbourne then 1,000ks of Tasmania in a 60s Ferrari,sure beats hanging out for 50 mins of racing over 3 days at a dirty race track.

[Repco22]

Old Grey motors never die!

Tom, you know I would never labour a point...... but are you sitting down?


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
A trophy from mid sixties-Caversham. And no, I didn't do it!
Sorry about the brief excursion OT.

[gtsmunro]

How did the Porsche get so much air? Rode up the side or rear of the Lotus? He seems to be off in a big way even before the gravel starts.

There have been some terrifying rolls between the final corner and the first corner, but all I've seen involved a hefty hit with the wall on the outside.

Oh, answered here.

http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Ouch!!!!

[BMH Comic]

Dont know what happened to the FE, It was not even seen Friday. The 48 had a sick driver, then the replacement driver managed to spin it and get nailed by a Mini.A lot of damage to both cars.The relacement driver was racing earlies in the early 70s but seems to be more used to better handling HQs these days. Though will be running his FJ Sports Sedan at Easter. And then the rest of the meeting the car was sick, pinging its head off. The FJ broke a gearbox, then the replacement fouled on the clutch. So they were busy.

I didnt know that, there was a perfectly funtional FJ gearbox sitting up at PIT AM9 that would have slotted in just nicely!! Could have that done in 37 mins!!

[BMH Comic]

Tom, you know I would never labour a point...... but are you sitting down?


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
A trophy from mid sixties-Caversham. And no, I didn't do it!
Sorry about the brief excursion OT.

Vandal!!!

I hate to think of the extreems you must have gone too to drag that out onto the patio from under about 50 years of detritous just so you could make me cry!!

Mind you if its out of a very significant car and its obviously not a discarded part, then I could weld it back together and drop a block around it and put a cylinder head on it and restore a race car around it.

So whos was it and who did the unspeakable and held the throttle open at 6250rpm??

[Repco22]

Vandal!!!

I hate to think of the extreems you must have gone too to drag that out onto the patio from under about 50 years of detritous just so you could make me cry!!

Mind you if its out of a very significant car and its obviously not a discarded part, then I could weld it back together and drop a block around it and put a cylinder head on it and restore a race car around it.

So whos was it and who did the unspeakable and held the throttle open at 6250rpm??

Well Thomas, your welding skills would be wasted as it's from the Byfield Ayres Sportscar and one is all we're allowed. I'd better not drop the culprit in it!

[h4887]

Glad the Ginetta escaped!

http://www.gtspirit....gallery=4233#tp

[BMH Comic]

Well Thomas, your welding skills would be wasted as it's from the Byfield Ayres Sportscar and one is all we're allowed. I'd better not drop the culprit in it!

Oh Well it was worth a try, despite the cryptic clue Im going for Lionel on lap 73 1965 6 hour!!

Were is the other 5/6th of it?? holding up the letter box????

[Lee Nicolle]

I didnt know that, there was a perfectly funtional FJ gearbox sitting up at PIT AM9 that would have slotted in just nicely!! Could have that done in 37 mins!!

I believe they ground the offending bit out, just remove the box twice.

[Lee Nicolle]

Tom, you know I would never labour a point...... but are you sitting down?


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
A trophy from mid sixties-Caversham. And no, I didn't do it!
Sorry about the brief excursion OT.

Now that is a pic that has been duplicated a few hundred times in Australian Motorsport!

[johnny yuma]

I didnt know that, there was a perfectly funtional FJ gearbox sitting up at PIT AM9 that would have slotted in just nicely!! Could have that done in 37 mins!!

The FJ gearbox was removed a second time to address the fouling,then on the Sunday ran a bearing
in the motor and was retired before things got worse.
The FX pinging,retimed,overheating,did a head gasket.Bit of a basket case all weekend.
By hearsay the FE blew the motor early in practice,it sat with bonnet open all weekend.It still holds
the Nb pre-EH record set in 2000 at about 2.02s. Phil Barrow got the FJ into 2.03s, but the car has run better in the past.Where do you get new 2550cc sized high compression pistons ?

[Repco22]

Oh Well it was worth a try, despite the cryptic clue Im going for Lionel on lap 73 1965 6 hour!!

Were is the other 5/6th of it?? holding up the letter box????

a; No comment.

b; No, and it's not wrapped around the driver's neck either!

Edited by Repco22, 29 March 2012 - 01:55.

[Lee Nicolle]

The FJ gearbox was removed a second time to address the fouling,then on the Sunday ran a bearing
in the motor and was retired before things got worse.
The FX pinging,retimed,overheating,did a head gasket.Bit of a basket case all weekend.
By hearsay the FE blew the motor early in practice,it sat with bonnet open all weekend.It still holds
the Nb pre-EH record set in 2000 at about 2.02s. Phil Barrow got the FJ into 2.03s, but the car has run better in the past.Where do you get new 2550cc sized high compression pistons ?

Eddie Dobbs 2000 record is 2.03 3752
HQ record is 2.01 668
GpJ is 2.01 4400 from am Amilcar
GpSa is 1.57.3274 for a 3litr Healey
GpNb under 3 litre is Richard Fairlam @1.58 2877
Outright Historic!! is John Bowe in the VesKanda [correct spelling] at 1.28 9800
5 seconds really is quite a lot from 2500cc to 3 litre. [That is if both were under the official capacities!]
The Nb records were pretty much uniform with early 60s with Jags, Holdens,Lotus Cortinas, Minis all with about 3 seconds covering them. But the Mustangs which should never have been allowed in GpN [b] are a good bit faster

[BMH Comic]

Eddie Dobbs 2000 record is 2.03 3752
HQ record is 2.01 668
GpJ is 2.01 4400 from am Amilcar
GpSa is 1.57.3274 for a 3litr Healey
GpNb under 3 litre is Richard Fairlam @1.58 2877
Outright Historic!! is John Bowe in the VesKanda [correct spelling] at 1.28 9800
5 seconds really is quite a lot from 2500cc to 3 litre. [That is if both were under the official capacities!]
The Nb records were pretty much uniform with early 60s with Jags, Holdens,Lotus Cortinas, Minis all with about 3 seconds covering them. But the Mustangs which should never have been allowed in GpN [b] are a good bit faster

If I get this correct! The FE is at 2500cc and Sa Healey at 3 litre and there is a 5 second disparity surly that must be to a large degree about weight and tyre size. There is near a 5 second difference between Faux Pas and the BMH and that’s 2200cc verses 2550cc with at least the same bottom end to the engine. Give it a second for the cylinder head and another for the cubes then I’m sure the extra 300kgs gives the remaining 3 seconds. It would be good to see how well our tractors would go with 7" rubber under them. Maybe we should try 300kg on the Healey to see how well they go!

[Lee Nicolle]

If I get this correct! The FE is at 2500cc and Sa Healey at 3 litre and there is a 5 second disparity surly that must be to a large degree about weight and tyre size. There is near a 5 second difference between Faux Pas and the BMH and that’s 2200cc verses 2550cc with at least the same bottom end to the engine. Give it a second for the cylinder head and another for the cubes then I’m sure the extra 300kgs gives the remaining 3 seconds. It would be good to see how well our tractors would go with 7" rubber under them. Maybe we should try 300kg on the Healey to see how well they go!

A big Healey is a sports car with a 4 speed box and [I think] a 12 port head.Discs? Though brakes really are not a major factor at PI. Weight I guess is about the same. Healey would have 15x6[maybe] rims and the FE 13x5.5. Tyres are about the same dimension on the road.

[Piquet959]

I understand that Dobbsy had a piston problem and decided to pull the pin before it destroyed itself. Grey motors are getting harder to find these days if they go bang.

Peter Sneddon

[GMACKIE]

I understand that Dobbsy had a piston problem and decided to pull the pin

Peter Sneddon

Was that in order to remove the piston from the con-rod?

[Piquet959]

Good one. It was only when I read your reply that I saw joke, not that I was writing it that way.

No it was by the sounds of it a machining problem from the machinist.
Top guy and a car that has only ever been a race car it's whole life. Never road registered. Probably the car with the greatest provenance in Historic Touring Cars apart from Keith Mc Kay and his Peter Manton mini 850.

Edited by Piquet959, 30 March 2012 - 20:23.

[DanTra2858]

At the end of the Meeting how many of the Entrants had to have repairs done to their cars to make them servicable again due to carnage & not Mechanical problems.

[GMACKIE]

Whatever the number is, it's TOO MANY. There are plenty of other race categories that don't seem to worry about car-contact, so why is it needed in Historic racing as well?