34 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

Sergey Sirotkin drove five races on this weekend: Three for Italian Formula Three and two for Auto GP.

in former days, driver often races in more than just one series. But ist Sirotkins weekend a record?

[David McKinney]

Far from it

In the '50s many people raced in that many in one day, and perhaps another three the next

[Allan Lupton]

Far from it

In the '50s many people raced in that many in one day, and perhaps another three the next

And in club racing a lot do/did that well after the '50s

[Tim Murray]

On a couple of occasions (including hiis famous 1961 win) Stirling Moss did the German GP on the Sunday then popped back to do several races at the Bank Holiday Brands Hatch meeting the following day.

[Stephen W]

On a couple of occasions (including hiis famous 1961 win) Stirling Moss did the German GP on the Sunday then popped back to do several races at the Bank Holiday Brands Hatch meeting the following day.

I seem to remember Jochen Rindt racing in the Oulton Park Gold Cup and then flying to Austria to take part in an F2 race.

[D-Type]

In US midgets and sprints, the drivers would race in heats and a final so would feature in several races. Then they might do the same the next day. It's not a form of racing I'm that familiar with but I think in some cases they managed a saturday daytime race plus anevenung meeting at another circuit. Other forms of racing use a heats and final format - stock cars, bangers, grass track, autocross, rallycross, sand racing etc.

I had a quick look at Stirling Moss's biography and found:
May 21st 1956 at Crystal Palace - Formule Libre (Maserati 250F) 1st Heat 1, 1st Heat 2, Anerley trophy (Cooper Bobtail) 2nd, Norbury Trophy (Cooper Bobtail) 1st. 5 races in one day
August 16th 1958 Roskilde Ring - Hheat 1 retired (Maserati, Heats 2 &3 1st (JBW-Maserati), August 17th Heat 1 2nd , Heats 2 & 3 1st (Maserati). 6 races in a weekend.

Roy Salvadori often ran in several races at British national meetings. I don't have a copy of his biography/ autobiography - does it include a race list?

Didn't Colin Chapman do a Nurburgring race on the Sunday and Brands hatch and Crystal Palace races on the [Bank holiday] Monday?

And the motorcyclists used to have the Transatlantic Trophy over Easter weekends in the 70's with races at different tracks on each of the 4 days - Brands Hatch, Snetterton and, I think, Mallory Park and Silverstone.

Edited by D-Type, 01 April 2012 - 16:33.

[Collombin]

May 21st 1956 at Crystal Palace - Formule Libre (Maserati 250F) 1st Heat 1, 1st Heat 2, Anerley trophy (Cooper Bobtail) 2nd, Norbury Trophy (Cooper Bobtail) 1st. 5 races in one day

That's just 4 races, isn't it?

Moss certainly did manage 5 races a day on a few occasions though eg. at Castle Combe in October 1950 and Goodwood in September 1951.

His recent book "All My Races" is a rather handy resource on this particular topic!

[D-Type]

That's just 4 races, isn't it?

Moss certainly did manage 5 races a day on a few occasions though eg. at Castle Combe in October 1950 and Goodwood in September 1951.

His recent book "All My Races" is a rather handy resource on this particular topic!

Whoops! so it is. I counted "First on aggregate" as a race then realised it wasn't and deleted it but didn't change the number, if you see what i mean..

[Alan Cox]

Not quite GP racing, but I think you will find that TNFer Roger Wills took part in something liike 9 races over a Donington(?) weekend a year or two back.

[Cirrus]

Not quite GP racing, but I think you will find that TNFer Roger Wills took part in something liike 9 races over a Donington(?) weekend a year or two back.

He also seemed to be in just about every race at the Spa 6 Hours a couple of years ago. A quick driver and a real enthusiast, in both historic and modern racing.

[alansart]

Not quite GP racing, but I think you will find that TNFer Roger Wills took part in something liike 9 races over a Donington(?) weekend a year or two back.

I think it was Brands Hatch at an HSCC meeting. He even did a Formula Ford race.

[Phil Rainford]

Didn't Phil Dowsett hire a plane; so he could fly around the UK one weekend in the 1980s competing in as many races as humanly possible?


PAR

[Michael Ferner]

I recently researched the opening of the 1986 All-Star Circuit of Champions Sprint Car season in Florida in detail, and there were about two or three dozen drivers who did at least two races per day over a period of almost a full week, minus one day that was rained out. Doug Wolfgang and Bobby Allen both came late to the party, and thus had to start in the "C-Main" on Sunday, and they both raced five times that day and were unlucky to experience trouble in one race so they even missed the main event! Allen came back the next day to make it seven starts in two days. At a quick and dirty look I think Randy Smith was the man with most starts over the extended weekend, 18 in five net racing days.

Just another week of racing for most of these gents, they are used to this sort of activity. It would probably be interesting to find out how many starts Steve Kinser had over the last 35 years. Some will know that the man won over 500 World of Outlaws main events (I think the current count is at 570), but that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. At the peak time of his career, he had an average of better than one win in three main events in WoO alone, so we're looking at something like 2000 main events. Each of these mains was proceded by at least one heat race and a qualifying time trial, and quite often a trophy dash or B-main to boot. Then, there are the preliminary features at multi-day shows, involving the same number of starts again. Also, whenever there was an opening on the WoO schedule, Kinser would be running an All-Star race, or USAC, CRA you name it. Sometimes just a weekly show at a track in the area he was just passing through. At a rough guess, that's another 1000 main events, each including time trials, heats, the whole shebang. And we'll forget the IROC, NASCAR or other races he did during the eighties and nineties, that's just a two- or three-digit number, negligible. Works out to an average of better than one start in two days, on average over an uninterrupted period of 35 years. Beat that.


EDIT

I had a quick look through my (incomplete records), and I have 79 main events for Steve Kinser in 1981 alone - that was the year he missed ten days of racing because of an injury in summer, and still found the time to try (unsuccessfully) to qualify at Indianapolis, by the way! I have heat results for only twenty of those mains, and he has more than thirty starts in those already, so we're looking at roughly 200 starts for the year even without any obscure races "on the side". My above estimate can't be far off.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 01 April 2012 - 20:18.

[MCS]

Always remember Ronnie Peterson and Tim Schenken arriving for the final (wet) practice at the Oulton Park Gold Cup in 1972, having won the World Championship for Makes at the Nurburgring the day before in their shared Ferrari 312PB. No small achievement in itself.

I stood watching my then hero Ronnie being "fitted" into the awkward March 721X for about half an hour (honestly!) before he set the quickest lap in the pouring rain in the final practice session. It dried in the race, but he collided with Reine Wisell's BRM at the start and retired immediately (as did Wisell with broken thumb or finger).

To this day, I have never seen any pictures of the start and very, very few of the race itself - something that has baffled me for forty years.

As a different postscript, Ronnie and Tim left very quickly after the Oulton F2 race later in the season (Tim led at one point, Ronnie won) as soon as they could to go and watch their mates in the World Speedway Championship at Wembley (Ivan Mauger, in particular).

[Ray Bell]

Working from memory...

Frank Matich at one Catalina Park meeting won five races and his class in two others. He drove an Elfin Clubman, Elfin Catalina, Elfin 1500 and the Lotus 19 at the time, whether or not he had all of those cars at that meeting I don't recall. It was actually prior to my first trip to that circuit.

If Speedway comes into it, the real marathons must have been for the midget blokes like Johnny Stewart who would race at Sydney Showground on Saturday night and then drive to Adelaide (950 miles or thereabouts) to race the next afternoon at Rowley Park. Or was it Adelaide to Sydney? I wasn't following Speedway at the time, but Johnny Stewart's Friday afternoon column was in the Daily Mirror on the same page as Mike Kable's column and I'd frequently read about his 13-hour trips between the cities to compete on the same weekend.

[bsc]

A couple of examples of racing at the different venues on the same day spring to mind: In 1999, Julian Bailey raced a Lister Storm in the FIA GT race at Donington finishing second, before flying to Croft to win that day's British GT race in another Storm. In 2007, Jean-Denis Deletraz finished second in the FIA GT race at Silverstone in a Chevrolet Corvette, before flying to Valencia to finish second in that day's Le Mans Series race in a Lola B06/10. In 2008, Neil Cunningham raced at Silverstone in a Ford Mustang in a Heritage GT race in which he retired following a large accident when the throttle stuck open before heading to Donington to race in that day's VSCC 'See Red' meeting.

[Lee Nicolle]

Working from memory...

Frank Matich at one Catalina Park meeting won five races and his class in two others. He drove an Elfin Clubman, Elfin Catalina, Elfin 1500 and the Lotus 19 at the time, whether or not he had all of those cars at that meeting I don't recall. It was actually prior to my first trip to that circuit.

If Speedway comes into it, the real marathons must have been for the midget blokes like Johnny Stewart who would race at Sydney Showground on Saturday night and then drive to Adelaide (950 miles or thereabouts) to race the next afternoon at Rowley Park. Or was it Adelaide to Sydney? I wasn't following Speedway at the time, but Johnny Stewart's Friday afternoon column was in the Daily Mirror on the same page as Mike Kable's column and I'd frequently read about his 13-hour trips between the cities to compete on the same weekend.

Modern Sprintcar competitors compete week in week out in season. The WoO compete several days a week at times with probably 5 starts a show.

Xmas time and Easter the sprints will race 4 or 5 nights in a week.

In the past here in Oz several competitors raced in 2 and occasionally 3 classes. Tattnell raced midgets and sprinters [and won Titles in both] And sedans on occasion too. As did Rush to a lesser extent though he was playing road racing and trotters too!
Here in Adelaide Bill Wigzell drove both midgets and Super mods/sprinters, as did Phil Hereen and occasionally Zeke Agars. On some nights up too 8 starts in 1 night. Then travel interstate and race one or the other and occasionally both the following night. Week in week out.

In the early 70s the sedan I was involved with raced Fri night at Rowley, Sat night at Murray bridge and Sunday arvo at Renmark. Generally 4 starts a show. The Renmark shows sometimes were short of numbers as the cars were often too damaged to do all three shows!And then we would spend most weeknights rebuilding the car for Fri night at Rowley! In those days generally we ran 3 weeks in 4 plus country tracks too
The Speedway bike competitors race 5 and 6 nights in a week at the peak of their season. At venues hundreds of km apart on occasion. Both here and the UK and Europe

Even as a classic speedway competitor I have done 2 shows in 2 days at country tracks. And a 2 nighter at Warnambool, though it rained and was overprogrammed and we got one start [sort of] each night. It was supposed to be 3 each night

I have raced in 2 categorys in road racing at a local meeting on occasion too. 6 starts for the weekend. And these days I am buggered from 6 runs in 1 weekend at a hillclimb!!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 02 April 2012 - 11:11.

[HistoryFan]

Thank you. Very interesting to follow that.

[rwills]

Not quite GP racing, but I think you will find that TNFer Roger Wills took part in something liike 9 races over a Donington(?) weekend a year or two back.

The plan was to do all 15 races. It was scuppered with mechanical issues but I think I did 11 races in total.

http://news.brandsha...-challenge.aspx

[Alan Cox]

The plan was to do all 15 races. It was scuppered with mechanical issues but I think I did 11 races in total.

Thanks for putting that straight, Roger. Apart from the location and number of races, I was pretty well correct, I think!

[Graham Clayton]

On the weekend of August 21-22 1965, USAC ran back-to-back Champ Car races at Springfield, IL on the Saturday, and then at Milwaukee, WI on the Sunday. All of the competitors drove overnight from Springfield in order to take part in qualifying at Milwaukee.

[Michael Ferner]

That was standard procedure for many decades, actually. And by 1965, it was not so much of a problem anymore, since most teams ran seperate outfits for pavement and dirt track races by then.

 

One likes to think that fitting 50 state fairs into a 52-week year shouldn't be much of a problem, but, of course, nobody wants to have his fair in winter or even spring (except for a few southern states), and more often than not Illinois and Wisconsin wound up on the same week. Milwaukee switched to AAA in 1932, I think, with Springfield following suit a few years later, and before it was the same for the IMCA. For a couple of years or so, AAA even ran the New York and Michigan races on the same weekend and, at the risk of repeating myself, the World of Outlaws had some "crazy" schedules from time to time, West Coast, East Coast and West Coast again, and a few teams would still run local races during the transfer trips!!

[RStock]

A local driver competed at one track, running the prelim and winning the main event. He then heard that another nearby track's program had been delayed, so loaded up, arrived there just in time to start at the back of the "consi" or "B-main" which he won, that allowed him to start at the back of the main event, which he won. Maybe not a record, but he did win his qualifying race at the first track, so considering the qualifying race win, the consi win and two main event wins, that makes 4 wins in one night.

Edited by RStock, 19 December 2013 - 23:16.

[Michael Ferner]

Ahh, now there's a new challenge! Most wins in a single day...

[D-Type]

Ahh, now there's a new challenge! Most wins in a single day...

Well, for a starter, on 26/5/1950 Stirling Moss won five F3 races at Brands Hatch.  And on 26/8/1961 he won three F1 heats at the Roskilde Ring

 

I think Colin Chapman won races at Brands Hatch and Crystal Palace on the same day.

Edited by D-Type, 20 December 2013 - 21:29.

[Spa65]

At the risk of lowering the tone of this discussion a bit, I remember reading a book in the mid 60's about Stirling Moss - it may have been "All but my life" and it may have been in conjunction with Ken Gregory. The memory plays tricks after nearly 50 years.

 

Anyway, as I remember Moss said that he would not have sex in the 5 days preceding a race. On one occasion he was with a pretty girl the night before a race and he abandoned his celibacy rule. The next day he had 7 races and won the lot!  He later reduced his rule, wise man, though whether as a result of this nocturnal escapade I do not know. If I had savoury crumpet throwing themselves at me like he had, I certainly wouldn't have had a 5 day rule.

[opplock]

At the risk of lowering the tone of this discussion a bit, I remember reading a book in the mid 60's about Stirling Moss - it may have been "All but my life" and it may have been in conjunction with Ken Gregory. The memory plays tricks after nearly 50 years.

 

Anyway, as I remember Moss said that he would not have sex in the 5 days preceding a race. On one occasion he was with a pretty girl the night before a race and he abandoned his celibacy rule. The next day he had 7 races and won the lot!  He later reduced his rule, wise man, though whether as a result of this nocturnal escapade I do not know. If I had savoury crumpet throwing themselves at me like he had, I certainly wouldn't have had a 5 day rule.

I remember reading a similar story but don't recall that the period of celibacy was quite as long as 5 days. Is anyone able to confirm when (if) Stirling won 7 races in a day?

[Tim Murray]

Here's the relevant passage:

 

‘I used to discipline myself so severely I would not have intercourse for five days before a race. Later, I began to think, that was going pretty far, who needs to live at all, allowing oneself sex two days out of seven? I believed that if I had made love the night before a race, I would be physically just that little bit weaker when I drove, and that belief was enough for me. Then one night before a race at Brands Hatch I was with a girl. We were fond of each other, and I abandoned my rule. Next day I had seven races, quite a few really, only short ones, but seven, and I won the lot! I was on great form.’

 

‘That day didn’t altogether change my mind, though. After all, they were short races, I had intervals of rest. The night before a really hard race, Le Mans, Sebring, the Mille Miglia, or a G.P. race – no.’

 

So it would appear that he relaxed the five-day rule later in his career. The most likely candidate for his 'seven wins at Brands' claim would appear to be the meeting mentioned by Duncan:

 

Well, for a starter, on 26/5/1950 Stirling Moss won five F3 races at Brands Hatch.

 

There's nothing in the race listing in the Robert Edwards biography showing him winning more races at any other Brands meeting.

Edited by Tim Murray, 29 December 2013 - 20:11.

[supermod47]

On May 30, 1948, Ralph Pratt won midget features at Canfield, Ohio; Columbus, Ohio; and Bedford, Ohio.

On May 29, 1956, Shorty Templeman won three midget features at 16th Street Speedway in Indianapolis.

On September 2, 1963, Mario Andretti won midget features at Flemington, New Jersey and twice at Hatfield, PA.

On May 30, 1977, Pancho Carter won 2 midget features and one sprint feature at Salem, IN.

On September 26, 1998, Jack Hewitt won 4 features, 1 midget; 1 sprint; 1 silver crown and 1 modified, at Eldora, Ohio.

On September 24, 2011, Kyle Larson won 3 features, 1 midget; 1 sprint; 1 silver crown, at Eldora, Ohio.

 

later,

Bob Mays

[Joe Bosworth]

It is too late at night to research properly but for the curious they might want to look to see who were the ones to compete in an Indi 500 and back up the next day with a Nascar 500. 

 

Also, my mind allows me to think I remember more than one doing the Indi 500 - Monaco F1 double in a weekend.

 

Both these don't have much chop on the question of number of races in a week end but does a bit for racing miles/laps in a week end and quality of races in the period.

 

Regards

[Ray Bell]

Most of the Indy and Monaco trans-Atlantic flying was to do with qualifying at Indy, IIRC...

Though there was a year or two in there when the races were close to each other.

[wenoopy]

In the 1953 Circuit de Cadours (for Formula 2 cars) in the deep south of France, the field of about 15 cars was split into 2 15-lap heats, with the first 4 in each heat qualifying for the 30-lap final. Then a 10-lap repechage race was run for the remaining non-qualifiers. Charles de Tornaco(Ferrari) who had retired in his heat, and John Heath(HWM) who had been fifth in his were 1st and 2nd in the repechage and thus ran in the final, so that each had 3 races on the day.

 

I think that F2 and maybe 1.5 litre F1 race meetings at Roskilde in Denmark around late 1950's and early '60's were run on a points aggregate of as many as 6 races over 2 days, similar to the midget car speedway format mentioned earlier.

 

With regard to Roy Salvadori, I have a 1954/55 "Motor Racing" Directory and Who's Who which lists 52 results for Roy in the 1954 season. This does not include retirements, only finishes, in 250F Maserati, 2-litre sports Maserati, Ecurie Ecosse C-Type Jaguar and a few Aston-Martin results, so inevitably he must have run several races in a day a few times.

 

Stu  

[D-Type]

It appears that Roy Salvadori seldom, if ever, raced Touring Cars or F3 cars so any of his multi-race days or weekends would have been made up of single seaters (F1, F2 & libre) and sports cars

[kayemod]

It appears that Roy Salvadori seldom, if ever, raced Touring Cars...

 

He had plenty of Jaguar Mk2 outings, though I can't remember him racing anything else.

[D-Type]

True - I was looking at the fifties rather than the sixties