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Don't Even Think About "Have At It, Boys"


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#1 nordschleife

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:37

After reading comments citing Vettel's "rudeness" towards Karthikeyan I can't help but wonder if the FIA, the sponsors and some of the audience expect too much self-discipline. I would have liked to have seen Mansell lift Senna off his feet by the throat with one hand, as legend has it. Footage of Senna decking Irvine would be quite a hook in a broadcast-opening clip. I would have paid to see the result if Schumacher had been allowed to fully express his displeasure to Coulthard at Spa 98. Jacques going after Montoya in a drivers' meeting would have been a must-see. I know, it's a slippery slope and the genuine adrenaline-driven anger (which I wish to see because it fleshes out the moment) can degrade into a never-ending pantomime. Still, I miss Piquet's high kicks. What's the right balance and will we ever see it?



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#2 altairuk

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:41

yeah f1 is full of overly pc ponces. let them go at it, absolutely cracked me up the way everyone was up in arms because hamilton and vettel called another driver an idiot, oh noes the horror.

nascar is great in that regard, they just say what they think and swear at each other and even their own crews, plus you even get the odd fight.

f1 is so po faced.

Edited by altairuk, 06 April 2012 - 22:43.


#3 Bosseking

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:52

Imo all these driver feuds should be decided by rap battles. Let them have a go with each other but with mics and a good beat. I'm sure Bernie would be happy.

Edited by Bosseking, 06 April 2012 - 22:55.


#4 Dunder

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:58

I am 100% with the OP. We have more than enough bland commentary in F1 "I have to say thanks to the team who have done a fantastic job", "I hope to have a good weekend and love the circuit" etc etc.

Hearing what the drivers really think is quite refreshing and is still nowhere near what we saw in days gone by (Senna punching Irvine, Schumacher striding down the pitlane in pursuit of Coulthard etc.)

#5 zepunishment

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 23:41

After reading comments citing Vettel's "rudeness" towards Karthikeyan I can't help but wonder if the FIA, the sponsors and some of the audience expect too much self-discipline. I would have liked to have seen Mansell lift Senna off his feet by the throat with one hand, as legend has it. Footage of Senna decking Irvine would be quite a hook in a broadcast-opening clip. I would have paid to see the result if Schumacher had been allowed to fully express his displeasure to Coulthard at Spa 98. Jacques going after Montoya in a drivers' meeting would have been a must-see. I know, it's a slippery slope and the genuine adrenaline-driven anger (which I wish to see because it fleshes out the moment) can degrade into a never-ending pantomime. Still, I miss Piquet's high kicks. What's the right balance and will we ever see it?


A broken hand for Schumacher, considering DC wasn't daft enough to take his helmet off :lol:

#6 Kubiccia

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 23:43

yeah, F1 is too much plastified and artificial. I would like to have seen Vettel bash Narain even more because the reality is that the Indian driver don't give a damn about anyone there. I still remember what he did to Schumacher in India's qualifying, I wish Schumi could have slapped him in front of his crowd for behaving like a prick on the track and being totally disrespectfull to another driver.

#7 Bosseking

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 23:47

A broken hand for Schumacher, considering DC wasn't daft enough to take his helmet off :lol:


For Schumi's protection it would have been better to keep the helmet on. Imagine hitting that chin.

#8 miniq

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 00:36

Screw the political correctness in a sport where the politics arn't exactly applauded for fairness.

I say from this day forward any situation like Narain/Vettel & Hamilton/Massa should be solved through a fight - preferably a boxing match

10 rounds, 8lb gloves.

We could even broadcast it for £10 ppv.

Hell i'd rather PAY and watch a fight between 2 drivers than watch GP's like Bahrain...

Edited by miniq, 07 April 2012 - 00:38.


#9 Nustang70

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:10

I also don't like how bland and innocuous F1 drivers b-ehave, but I think it's completely dangerous to allow--and implicitly encourage--Nascar drivers to have WWE-style feuds that get carried out onto the track. Nascar is turning into a blood sport.

#10 Kubiccia

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:29

is there actually fist fight in Nascar?

#11 genespleen

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:36

Here in my country the National (U.S.-style) "Football" League is being rocked by revelations that one team actually employed a bounty system by which players who injured opponents enough to take them out of a game were financially rewarded. (Frankly, if that exists in one team, I'd guarantee it does in others.) Wouldn't it be great if we allowed the fisticuffs to return to F1, and expand in such a fashion?


#12 PassWind

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:18

Here in my country the National (U.S.-style) "Football" League is being rocked by revelations that one team actually employed a bounty system by which players who injured opponents enough to take them out of a game were financially rewarded. (Frankly, if that exists in one team, I'd guarantee it does in others.) Wouldn't it be great if we allowed the fisticuffs to return to F1, and expand in such a fashion?


Contact sports like US Football, Aussie Rules, Gaelic Football, Rugby League, Rugby Union are a physical contest. It is very much a legitimate tactic to take out an oponent using legitimate tackles. A bounty system seems like a lame way to motivate a team to do so and in the end would not be as effective, I would take a team full of pride over a team paid off to do the things they are meant to do on a field for each other.

Pounding another guy who is hitting your rover/half/quarter back over and over again is absolutely expected, looking after your mates/buddies is what is expected, hence amatuer versions of all those sports tend to carry more venom/passion.

First Scrummage of the day was primarily to establish pack dominance not just to win the ball, and that involves brute force.

Back to the topic however to be fair the commentary especially on the forums is mainly from those simply looking for an excuse to have a go at a driver they love to hate on. A perfect ivory tower was errected and occupied by those who could not wait to do so.

On the good news side, I think Lewis Hamiltons comments recently about consistency said in public signify a coming of age, which all humans must go through which makes the bullshit comments about these sportsmen so hypocritical (lets roll out the role model garbage again). The only difference between those angry young men and others is they get to air their emotions in public. Trying to deny the right to emotions of our people in the public eye is just rediculous. All live and all learn.

It is more than fair to discuss those moments, but for heavens sake in context.

.02 of a buck

#13 loki

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:06

For Schumi's protection it would have been better to keep the helmet on. Imagine hitting that chin.



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


#14 loki

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:12

is there actually fist fight in Nascar?


There still are fisticuffs every now and again. Last one was Richard Childress punching out Kyle Busch. They have been some other famous fights over the years but NASCAR has cracked down pretty hard on them for actual punches. Local NASCAR and short track in general fights are still somewhat common. There are a couple/three a year or so at our local NASCAR track. A couple of times the cops have been called. Some tracks have security or hire off duty cops to keep the trouble to a minimum. Of course not every track has those issues but it's not uncommon.

#15 loki

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:16

I also don't like how bland and innocuous F1 drivers b-ehave, but I think it's completely dangerous to allow--and implicitly encourage--Nascar drivers to have WWE-style feuds that get carried out onto the track. Nascar is turning into a blood sport.


Always has been. It's been worse, it just didn't have the media profile it does now and the billions in sponsorship to keep the hot heads in line. If anything now it's calmer on the national level but the tensions and occasional fight is still there. Not so much the drivers these days but some crew guys can get into it. See my last post for the last high profile fracas. If they catch the crew guys they get fined and suspended as well.


#16 pingu666

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:24

i quite like it, we need people tell it like it is, or how they see it


#17 BRG

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:24

For Schumi's protection it would have been better to keep the helmet on. Imagine hitting that chin.

Given that Coulthard is built like a brick s**t-house, MS should think himself lucky that the Scot chose not to flatten him.

But seriously, they should have got this sort of thing out of their systems in karting and F. Ford. F1 is supposed to be for grown-ups (plus Sebastian Vettel, of course), Having said that, a bit more straight talking and a bit less pre-prepared PR babble would be nice. They manage it in WRC, after all.

Edited by BRG, 07 April 2012 - 09:25.


#18 BlackCat

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:03

easy. ban all kind of video coverage and all that stupid "political correctness" will be gone. what we see now is an all-family entertainment.

#19 spacekid

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:34

Drivers able to speak more freely without having to worry about corporate responsibilities or the sponsors? Yes please, that can often be refreshing. Just once I'd like to see a driver not wearing a baseball cap - I can't believe that they all enjoy wearing them (I don't. And I don't know anyone who does wear one). More freedom of expression from the drivers would be nice.

Drivers carrying out petty feuds in public or even resorting to fisticuffs on TV to settle on track disputes? Er, no thanks. I'm not 9 years old, so that sort of thing doesn't really impress me.

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#20 jonpollak

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:45

Make AJ Foyt the driver steward.
Job Done.

Jp

#21 P123

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:45

If this place is anything to go by then F1 fans are unable to cope emotionally when a driver says something which does not follow the usual PR speak. There is usually a forum meltdown. We have twits feigning offence on behalf of the apparent insulted party.

Edited by P123, 07 April 2012 - 11:46.


#22 Xpat

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:05

Make AJ Foyt the driver steward.
Job Done.

Jp




I am not sure fights are necessary but drivers with some visible passion and fire would be nice. Drivers who aren't worried if a sponsor drops them when they give an honest non-lawyer approved answer. Foyt jumping out of his car to grab a wrench and work on the engine during a pit stop. Robby Gordon showing his displeasure with Waltrip. Wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air if an F1 driver would speak to the press like Tony Stewart?

#23 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:16

I'd definitely like to see F1 drivers able to express themselves and speak their mind. At least they haven't reached the NASCAR stage of having to mention every sponsor on the car in post race interviews. But I also expect them to behave like the professional adults they're supposed to be, and that means not getting into fights and settling their differences with some measure of civility. I want to see the passion and the dedication that they put into their career, but I also want to see the maturity and intelligence than comes with being the "best in the world".

#24 Octavian

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:33

I watch F1 to see drivers pushing their cars to the limit and racing their backsides off...............I don't watch it to see drivers fight each other or disrespect each other off the race track. Some people in this thread really need to grow up. Watch boxing or WWE if you want to see punches and trash talk.

#25 Boing 2

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:35

Money, Money, Money, it's the root of all evil. I remember reading at the end of Prosts career that his total career earnings were $40M, that was at the end of 93. By mid 95 Schumacher had signed a $30M basic salary from Ferrari, on that basis you would have to assume he was equalling Prosts career total every year with personal sponsorship and investments.

Mid 90's saw an explosion in viewing figures and income, that money all has to come from somwhere and in F1 it came from blue chip companies. The one thing you don't want as a blue chip company is association with a thug, just look at how quickly Sutils career has ended after an, admittedly extreme, assault.

The bottom line is, if you want the money you have to toe the line, if you want freedom then accept a smaller pay cheque.

#26 ForzaGTR

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:41

Most of the reaction on this board is down to Lewis getting flogged any time he says anything out of line and how Vettel was previously seen as the perfect, cool and calm guy. It turns out he is no different to the rest and Hamilton fans want everyone to know it. It's fan boys vs fan boys.

#27 King Six

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:46

They want to try and keep the sport as professional as possible. Nobody is even up in arms about Vettel calling him an idiot, the real issue is whether Vettel is correct and how he can't handle things when they don't go his way, nobody would say anything if Vettel was perfectly right in saying what he said, so it wasn't about his choice of words. So you've entirely missed the point of that anyway. Other than that your post is another nonsense "oh things were so much better in the past" post which everyone jumps on the bandwagon for.

Edited by King Six, 07 April 2012 - 12:46.


#28 Mila

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:02

F1 drivers making fools out of themselves so that they can be on par with NASCAR? well, there's no need to fight--that's what team radios are for.

Edited by Mila, 07 April 2012 - 13:03.


#29 pingu666

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:36



#30 fieraku

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:49



Hamilton just referred to a "black joke" which only 92.8% of white F1 fans found offensive and there was a world crisis,the market crashed and all F1 forums and Media outlets went defcon1,and Marshall Plan was needed for weeks.

Now we're ready for fistfights/brawls and anything goes?Hmmmm

If we're to apply the same standards,going by the heat/criticism and # of [against] threads/articles LH got,I don't think it's a good idea. But then again only if we apply the same standards.

#31 Watkins74

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:03

Hamilton just referred to a "black joke" which only 92.8% of white F1 fans found offensive and there was a world crisis,the market crashed and all F1 forums and Media outlets went defcon1,and Marshall Plan was needed for weeks.

Now we're ready for fistfights/brawls and anything goes?Hmmmm

If we're to apply the same standards,going by the heat/criticism and # of [against] threads/articles LH got,I don't think it's a good idea. But then again only if we apply the same standards.

Yeah and when Vettel gets called to the Stewards room as many times as Hamilton then the same standard can apply.



#32 fieraku

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:12

Yeah and when Vettel gets called to the Stewards room as many times as Hamilton then the same standard can apply.

Irrelevant to what the OP asked and what the thread is about. :wave:

I can't help but wonder if the FIA, the sponsors and some of the audience expect too much self-discipline
I would have paid to see the result if Schumacher had been allowed to fully express his displeasure


LH fully expressed his displeasure and showed no self discipline.He fit the criteria like a glove,please do keep up.

#33 Watkins74

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:16

Irrelevant to what the OP asked and what the thread is about. :wave:

LH fully expressed his displeasure and showed no self discipline.He fit the criteria like a glove,please do keep up.

Pointing out your desperate attempt to once again compare Apples to Oranges.

Your ability to say 1+1=7 continues to provide endless amusement. Quick get back to the Vettel thread, it's been like 5 seconds since you have given your latest theory on how Vettel has totally lost it. :rolleyes:

Edited by Watkins74, 07 April 2012 - 14:16.


#34 fieraku

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:37

Pointing out your desperate attempt to once again compare Apples to Oranges.

Your ability to say 1+1=7 continues to provide endless amusement. Quick get back to the Vettel thread, it's been like 5 seconds since you have given your latest theory on how Vettel has totally lost it. :rolleyes:


Ahhh yes,personal attacks :drunk: "When all else fails"

#35 senna da silva

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:52

I watch F1 to see drivers pushing their cars to the limit and racing their backsides off...............I don't watch it to see drivers fight each other or disrespect each other off the race track. Some people in this thread really need to grow up. Watch boxing or WWE if you want to see punches and trash talk.


:up:

#36 moorsey

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:59

I watch F1 to see drivers pushing their cars to the limit and racing their backsides off...............I don't watch it to see drivers fight each other or disrespect each other off the race track. Some people in this thread really need to grow up. Watch boxing or WWE if you want to see punches and trash talk.


I totally agree.
The last thing I want to watch is F1 going down the same route as most of the rest of the sports out there. Why should we ask the people we support to lower their standards?

#37 pingu666

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 15:29

its not wanting things to be glossed over, i dont really want to see physical fights. but strong opinions are ok.

if you watch my robby gordon link above, thats the kinda thing we need, people calling out bullshit when they see it. and the fia havent done anything about what they disqualified robby from the rally for. the case is in limbo


#38 fastlegs

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 15:47

In Canada when famous people have a dispute with one another they settled it in a boxing ring. :)

Last week two Canadian politicians duked it out in a real boxing match.

It was great to watch. The underdog politician scored an upset TKO over his heavily favorite opponent.

MP Justin Trudeau (the underdog) versus Senator Patrick Brazeau (the favorite)


Edited by fastlegs, 07 April 2012 - 15:49.


#39 Bunchies

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 16:01

Imo all these driver feuds should be decided by rap battles. Let them have a go with each other but with mics and a good beat. I'm sure Bernie would be happy.


Cmon Sebastian what are you thinking?
Acting a fool when the whole ship is sinking
I held my line, you cut across too early
Just like you did with Mark way back in Turkey
So stop jinking at drivers and saying that they're screwy
We know that your speed comes from your boy Newey

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#40 RealRacing

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 16:41

It's one thing that the post race conferences, driver interviews or any other media appearance looks and sounds like plastic, and another to allow the sport to descend into a level that is not respectable to the audience or even dangerous to drivers.

I hate the media scripts, hats, ass-licking and all the rest of the corporate artificiality, but I don't know if I would like F1 to descend to the level of other sports. In the first place, it would be dangerous; after there has been one serious offense, one doesn't know who will take it to the track. Secondly, it could lead to the creation of prima donnas and paid assasins a-la football. It is laughable how there some people have become very bad actors and others just pawns of aggression (I digress but it's a good thing we have Champions League games simultaneously; I just jump from one to the other to have almost 100% action). F1 needs a certain level of cleanliness, more so than other types of sports, but once in a while a gut reaction off track would be in order...

#41 WhiteBlue

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 16:47

.. the commentary especially on the forums is mainly from those simply looking for an excuse to have a go at a driver they love to hate on.


+1 :up:


#42 Dunder

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 17:07

Cmon Sebastian what are you thinking?
Acting a fool when the whole ship is sinking
I held my line, you cut across too early
Just like you did with Mark way back in Turkey
So stop jinking at drivers and saying that they're screwy
We know that your speed comes from your boy Newey


Listen Narian, you green cucumber
Like everyone else, I have got your number
Held your line? Man, you jinked right
Even though I was in your line of sight
You know it ain't "cos you is black"
But all you are is a "monkey at the back"




#43 apoka

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 20:24

:up: for Bunchies and Dunder. :rotfl:

#44 billm99uk

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 20:42

Imo all these driver feuds should be decided by rap battles. Let them have a go with each other but with mics and a good beat. I'm sure Bernie would be happy.



I'd go for those fights they used to have in "Gladiators" where they're both standing on podia and beating on each other with giant cotton buds  ;)

#45 Rich

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 20:59

I watch F1 to see drivers pushing their cars to the limit and racing their backsides off...............I don't watch it to see drivers fight each other or disrespect each other off the race track. Some people in this thread really need to grow up. Watch boxing or WWE if you want to see punches and trash talk.


Precisely. Racing drivers are professionals just like most other people. If I punched somebody in my industry, I'd be ostracised by the industry as a childish and low-class idiot who can't control his emotions. Anybody who can't keep their fists to themselves when faced with industry pressures and disagreements shouldn't have graduated from high school. Or perhaps even primary school.

#46 BillBald

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 23:41

:up: for Bunchies and Dunder. :rotfl:


:up: :up: :up:

You guys should start your own website.



#47 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 00:39

Precisely. Racing drivers are professionals just like most other people. If I punched somebody in my industry, I'd be ostracised by the industry as a childish and low-class idiot who can't control his emotions. Anybody who can't keep their fists to themselves when faced with industry pressures and disagreements shouldn't have graduated from high school. Or perhaps even primary school.


Too right. I work in the banking industry, and there are plenty of people who I would love to kick shitless. But, if I did, I would lose my job, and any ability to work elsewhere.

In the F1 world though, Eddie can always have the story to tell that he got punched by Senna in his first race. I have interesting stories from school/work that I could tell which also should have been outlawed, but actually happened.

My Biology teacher nearly broke my nose for not doing homework. My mum threatened to break his legs, and as a result, I had to visit the headmaster and show him my homework every day.
My Art teacher made me spend an entire 1 hour lesson with my nose touching the wall because I wore grey socks which he said were white. Upon reminding him that being an art teacher, not knowing the difference betweeen white and grey is a bit of a no no, my nose was forced against the wall.
I was told that I was taking the piss out of an RE teacher when I answered the question "what did the diciples say when they saw Jesus walking on water", with "I bet he drinks carling black label". I was caned for this.
I was also caned for pissing in a coke can and getting some religious nutter who wanted to be a priest to drink it.

In short, resorting to physical violence is only ok if you are a catholic teacher. :)




#48 g1n

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 00:51

Too right. I work in the banking industry, and there are plenty of people who I would love to kick shitless. But, if I did, I would lose my job, and any ability to work elsewhere.

In the F1 world though, Eddie can always have the story to tell that he got punched by Senna in his first race. I have interesting stories from school/work that I could tell which also should have been outlawed, but actually happened.

My Biology teacher nearly broke my nose for not doing homework. My mum threatened to break his legs, and as a result, I had to visit the headmaster and show him my homework every day.
My Art teacher made me spend an entire 1 hour lesson with my nose touching the wall because I wore grey socks which he said were white. Upon reminding him that being an art teacher, not knowing the difference betweeen white and grey is a bit of a no no, my nose was forced against the wall.
I was told that I was taking the piss out of an RE teacher when I answered the question "what did the diciples say when they saw Jesus walking on water", with "I bet he drinks carling black label". I was caned for this.
I was also caned for pissing in a coke can and getting some religious nutter who wanted to be a priest to drink it.

In short, resorting to physical violence is only ok if you are a catholic teacher. :)



I am not religious what so ever, but wtf did you just write? Where you psychologically scarred as a child? or what exactly are you trying to tell us with the second half of your post? :down:

Edited by g1n, 08 April 2012 - 00:51.


#49 rm111

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:43

Given that Coulthard is built like a brick s**t-house, MS should think himself lucky that the Scot chose not to flatten him.


Lol, obviously you've never seen DC.

#50 Xpat

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:02

I think the problem many of us have with current F1 drivers is that they seem to be passionless automatons. I am sure they aren't, I am not sure you can drive and succeed at that level without having a passion for racing. I also think the suggestion that fisticuffs accompany grand prix weekends is made tongue and cheek. It is understandable why these drivers are indistinguishable from one another in front of the press. They are being paid vast sums of money to drive a motor racing car AND represent brands and companies who sponsor them. Why would they want to put that in jeopardy by saying what they really feel? However slim the chance of seeing a driver speak his mind in today's environment, it would be a refreshing change to see a bit more passion.