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Fast cars at Bathurst...


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#51 marchi-91

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:21

Well, we know a Ferrari 458 GT3 can do a 2:04.9 versus a 2:06.8 for a V8. There must be a comparison of the speed of the Fezza to a DTM out there somewhere. :)


V8's would wipe the floor with the Ferrari if they had similar tyres. The dunlop control tyre the series runs at bathurst is a heap of crap. Virtually zero feedback to the driver. The softer compound they've been using at other circuit is alot better and actually provides some great racing, but the idiot organisers refuse to move to it as the main compound because for some reason they have it in their heads, they're the second coming of F1.

Also Bathurst is not an aero track. I could count 4 corners where the aero advantage would come into play, but otherwise they'd be blown away on the two 1km+ straights.

It would be close and I might even be in favor of the DTM car, but it wouldn't blow them away by 2-3 seconds.

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#52 wonk123

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 00:39

for the safer barriers my idea is to dig out more of the mountain, then put in the concrete wall, then safer barrier, so the track remains the same width, but you got that soft wall. and safer barriers dont really spring back anything like a tyre or foam barrier, its better than a tyre wall if your going to slide along the wall, tyre walls tend to grab and spin the car.

but have some tyre walls in the right places ofcourse




NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE GOD, NO!!

Actually if this is ever seriously mentioned, I will run for Bathurst Council to try and stop it happening!

Edited by wonk123, 12 April 2012 - 00:40.


#53 pingu666

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:20

ok why?
you could make it near identical (with laser scanning itll be mm perfect) to the current layout to drive, only slightly deminish the challenge as safer barriers wont allow you to get away with much more than a concrete wall, the car would still get damaged. but if you have a heavy impact they really reduce the forces on the driver, so it would be much safer for them.



do you wanna hit a solid wall or something with some give in it ?

#54 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:27

V8's would wipe the floor with the Ferrari if they had similar tyres.

The Ferrari is still a low, wide, mid engined supercar with an aluminium chassis (compared to a front-engined 4 door steel sedan) and the displacement disadvantage is only 400 cc yet the Ferrari revs much higher. I'm not convinced IMO.

#55 Wuzak

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:35

The Ferrari is still a low, wide, mid engined supercar with an aluminium chassis (compared to a front-engined 4 door steel sedan) and the displacement disadvantage is only 400 cc yet the Ferrari revs much higher. I'm not convinced IMO.


The Ferrari has some quite severe restrictors on the intakes IIRC, which reduce the power that it makes.

V8s are rev limited by teh regulations, restricting their power.

#56 Wuzak

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:37

Also Bathurst is not an aero track. I could count 4 corners where the aero advantage would come into play, but otherwise they'd be blown away on the two 1km+ straights.

It would be close and I might even be in favor of the DTM car, but it wouldn't blow them away by 2-3 seconds.


An F3 car would also be blown away on the straights and yet they manage to go faster than the V8s.


#57 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:21

Just look at Hispania in F1. I.e. the teams in Aussie F3 try hard but resources are very limited, if you had the top line European F3 teams with latest cars maybe they could go 4-5 seconds faster which would I think put F3 and expected DTM times more on par, like in Europe (?).

#58 BellisEndis

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:46

Posted Image

isn't it interesting that all these different cars built and run to different rules all lap the mountain at a different pace....






#59 wonk123

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:53

ok why?
you could make it near identical (with laser scanning itll be mm perfect) to the current layout to drive, only slightly deminish the challenge as safer barriers wont allow you to get away with much more than a concrete wall, the car would still get damaged. but if you have a heavy impact they really reduce the forces on the driver, so it would be much safer for them.



do you wanna hit a solid wall or something with some give in it ?



Unfortunately, in the real world, once someone decides to "improve" the track, they tend to want to also improve something else, and guaranteed it won't be mm perfect. It's too easy to stuff up, what is arguably the best track in the world. I think we need to accept it is no place for bikes and open wheelers? Or Sidecars.. We had a different idea of safety in those days!

I agree it only has 4 aero corners, if you consider Griffin's to Forrest's Elbow 1 corner lol :p

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#60 marchi-91

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:59

An F3 car would also be blown away on the straights and yet they manage to go faster than the V8s.

You're then comparing a car that weights 500kg and produces close to twice it's weight in downforce to one that weights 1350 and produces hardly any downforce. DTM cars weight 1000-1100kg.

F3 cars also have vastly superior tyres.

#61 marchi-91

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:20

I agree it only has 4 aero corners, if you consider Griffin's to Forrest's Elbow 1 corner lol :p


Like Spa, it is a circuit that relies far more on the driver and tyre then the aero. The first and last corners are too slow for a touring car to generate massive amount of downforce. The second arguable the first downforce corner, but even that is taken at 160kmh. The cutting is my second heavy downforce corner. Across the top speed is mostly 'barely' shaved off due to undulation change. I don't care what car you'd be driving, you'd be backing off. Down the mountain is is all about coasting. Over skyline and through the dipper there is hardly any need for downforce. Elbow is the next downforce corner and then the chase.

#62 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:59

Like Spa, it is a circuit that relies far more on the driver and tyre then the aero. The first and last corners are too slow for a touring car to generate massive amount of downforce. The second arguable the first downforce corner, but even that is taken at 160kmh. The cutting is my second heavy downforce corner. Across the top speed is mostly 'barely' shaved off due to undulation change. I don't care what car you'd be driving, you'd be backing off. Down the mountain is is all about coasting. Over skyline and through the dipper there is hardly any need for downforce. Elbow is the next downforce corner and then the chase.


Aerodynamic downforce doesn't just switch on at high speeds. It's a continuous effect that gradually gets stronger as the speed increases. 160km/h is definitely fast enough for significant downforce production though, on any kind of car. If you think that downforce wouldn't help on the mountain section, with plenty of crests and quick corners, you're sadly mistaken.

Spa is a great example of a circuit where aero makes a difference, and so is Bathurst.