20 replies to this topic

[onelung]

Whilst Googling "Mary Seed / AC Ace" I'm wondering if I've managed to confuse the Coonabarabran speed runs with the trials as per topic title. If all this has been covered elsewhere in TNF my apologies - otherwise, give us all you've got on either. Thanks.

[gkennedy]

The only thing I recall that was anything like 'Carathool Speed Trials' was David McKay's attempt at a couple of Australian speed records on a closed public road at Carathool in around 1959. He used his Aston Martin DB3S with a streamlined cowl enclosing the cockpit plus a few other mods for speed, and IIRC, broke a couple of records at around 157(?)mph - I think. I'm probably blundering in offering nothing at all to help you, but maybe not. While I'm at it: Mary Seed's AC Ace (Bristol). I was a friend of Doug Chivas and his family, and I recall Doug telling me that he drove that car in a one-off at a wet Bathurst, also in 1959, to 3rd place in a NSW Sports Car Championship. I can find nothing about either in a quick google, but I'm sure I'm correct on both counts. Stored somewhere in my barn is a book by David McKay called 'Behind the Wheel' (vewy original, Mal), and it has a chapter about that Carathool 'event'. I must exhume it some time.

[David McKinney]

I think GK is right. There was quite a big entry at Coonabarabran but ISTR that only one car apart from McKay's DB3S ran at Carathool, and that was Mary Seed's AC

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by gkennedy
.....I recall Doug telling me that he drove that car in a one-off at a wet Bathurst, also in 1959, to 3rd place in a NSW Sports Car Championship. I can find nothing about either in a quick google, but I'm sure I'm correct on both counts. Stored somewhere in my barn is a book by David McKay called 'Behind the Wheel' (vewy original, Mal), and it has a chapter about that Carathool 'event'. I must exhume it some time.

That would be Behind the Wheel, of course... before Bruce McLaren adopted that as a name for his column...

You are in error on the issue of Chivo on the AC Bristol. It was the October, 1959 meeting and he actually didn't fill third, that's where Matich was running in the D-type before it expired. Doug was second to Ron Phillips in the Cooper Jag.

Edited by Ray Bell, 10 April 2012 - 10:32.

[Repco22]

GK, I thought 157 was a bit high so just checked. The Aston's mean speed was 143.1. Wheelspin was a problem on the UNSEALED road! Mary Seed in her AC recorded 112.95. They took a couple of Porsches too and David drove them . One failed to break 100 and the Super 1500 set a class record of 103. BTW, Chivo and Mandy were good friends of ours too, when they settled in the West.

[onelung]

Many thanks for the responses so far: I attach here the vehicle which got me started into this enquiry - seen in the spectator car park at the recent Easter Historic meeting at Mallala. A miraculously un-molested example of the Weller engined Ace.
While I'm at it - might anyone be able to recall an AC Aceca which long ago dwelt in Adelaide, or perhaps add some detail to link the name of (Squadron Leader?) Norris with AC?

[D-Type]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Weller engined AC?

I know of the original equipment engines for the Ace, namely: AC engine, Bristol engine, Ruddspeed Ford Zephyr engine, 4.2/4/5/5 litre Ford engined [Shelby] Cobra, and 7 litre Ford engined Shelby Cobra. And let's not go into "When is a Cobra an AC and when is it a Shelby?"

But a Weller engine

[Tim Murray]

The 1991 cc 6-cylinder AC engine which first appeared in 1919 was designed by John Weller.

[D-Type]

Thanks.

[David McKinney]

That would be Behind the Wheel, of course... before Bruce McLaren adopted that as a name for his column...

Where did that column appear?
His Autosport column was 'From the Cockpit'

[Tim Murray]

Deny Hulme's Autosport column was 'Behind the wheel'.

[Ray Bell]

How old did you say I am?

My apologies...

And just to clarify and see if my memory has anything right, was David's Wednesday column in the Daily Telegraph called Behind the Wheel?

[Lee Nicolle]

Many thanks for the responses so far: I attach here the vehicle which got me started into this enquiry - seen in the spectator car park at the recent Easter Historic meeting at Mallala. A miraculously un-molested example of the Weller engined Ace.
While I'm at it - might anyone be able to recall an AC Aceca which long ago dwelt in Adelaide, or perhaps add some detail to link the name of (Squadron Leader?) Norris with AC?

I was taking photos of racecars at Mallala. The only time I was in the car park was on arrival and leaving the circuit. Maybe I should have got around a bit more.
I did watch 2bob changing a broken diff in his clubbie.
And helped changed the diff on the Torana that broke on the line and was almost hit by Bargwarnas Mustang from the back of the grid.
And have seen under the rocker cover on the Shearer A which won the handicap,,, by too much and was disqualified!

[gkennedy]

I'll take a guesstimate at Ray Bell's age, and go for... 65.

I've had an explore and another google. The David McKay book will have to wait for a free weekend. There's too many cartons of books up there to hunt through. I'm almost certain that book was called 'Behind the Wheel', and McKay's weekly column in the Tele was also 'Behind the Wheel'. A quick google of that title brings up heaps of books of the same name, and speaking of googling: http://aussieroadrac...rvBunyanP2.html Fifth pic down, left-hand column. I should have thought of Brian Darby's site, as although I haven't seen him for some time, we have been friends through Speedway since the years I had a Sprintcar team. Brian was an apprentice at Frank Matich's Total service station in Punchbowl, Sydney, back in Frank's Lotus 19 and Repco Brabham days. Speaking of FM, two pics up from the AC pic is one of a young Matich and his Austin Healey.

Enough of the off-topic stuff. I hope the pic of Mary Seed's AC makes up for it.

[kaydee]

Whilst Googling "Mary Seed / AC Ace" I'm wondering if I've managed to confuse the Coonabarabran speed runs with the trials as per topic title. If all this has been covered elsewhere in TNF my apologies - otherwise, give us all you've got on either. Thanks.

Geoff,
The 1957 Coonabaraban speed runs were sponsored by COR / BP for their contracted drivers.
David McKay was usually associated with Ampol and obviously didn't get a gurnsey at Coonabarabran.
I'm not sure what year he and Mary Seed ran at Carathool as I've seen both 1956 and 1957 mentioned and in the CAMS listing of National Time and Distance Records it is listed as 19/2/75 - (which I am sure is incorrect)
The thing that I find amazing is that the Carathool record attempts were run on a dirt road....

[Paul Hamilton]

And just to clarify and see if my memory has anything right, was David's Wednesday column in the Daily Telegraph called Behind the Wheel?

David's Wednesday column was indeed entitled 'Behind the Wheel' as was the first of his two books which covered the period up to around 1958. The second book, 'David Mackay's Scuderia Veloce', picked up the story from then.

[Repco22]

Geoff,
The 1957 Coonabaraban speed runs were sponsored by COR / BP for their contracted drivers.
David McKay was usually associated with Ampol and obviously didn't get a gurnsey at Coonabarabran.
I'm not sure what year he and Mary Seed ran at Carathool as I've seen both 1956 and 1957 mentioned and in the CAMS listing of National Time and Distance Records it is listed as 19/2/75 - (which I am sure is incorrect)
The thing that I find amazing is that the Carathool record attempts were run on a dirt road....

I should have mentioned in post 5 that my reference was to David's book, 'Behind the Wheel'. He states that the shire engineer advised him about the second week in Feb., 1957, that the road was 'shaping well'. so he dashed up to have a look. The attempt was then quickly arranged as he had heard that BP were planning a similar assault and they had quicker cars contracted; Whiteford's 300s, Stillwell's D type... First in would get the press's interest. 19/2/57 would probably be right.

[Catalina Park]

I wonder if Modern Motor magazine from the period would have had a bit more info about Carathool?
I think David wrote for Modern Motor as well as the Telegraph.

[Repco22]

I wonder if Modern Motor magazine from the period would have had a bit more info about Carathool?
I think David wrote for Modern Motor as well as the Telegraph.

I seem to remember he has an illustrated story on the event in MM. I started buying mags in '57 and have that one..... in the shed. I'll try to dig it out tomorrow.

[Ray Bell]

Indeed, David was writing for Modern Motor at that time...

It was published by Australian Consolidated Press, a part of the Packer empire, until sold off.

David wasn't 'usually' with Ampol. He had Ampol backing for a period, but most of his racing saw him associated with Shell.

[Repco22]

I've just located the May 1957 issue of Modern Motor. There's a report on Caversham's AGP. David has written a story titled 'Australia's Fastest Road Test' which features the DB3S and includes pics of the record run of the Aston Martin complete with cockpit bubble. But it's really an appraisal of the car and there is only scant mention of Carrathool. Maybe there's something in an earlier issue but it's covered well enough in the book anyway.
A pic in the book shows David being 'taped into his Aston'. The bubble canopy consisted of about five parts so after the door and all parts were closed, the join lines were covered with tape to improve aerodynamics.

Edited by Repco22, 11 April 2012 - 13:42.