10 replies to this topic

[Maldwyn]

I'm working on the timeline of a Facebook page (https://www.facebook...ccardoPatreseF1) to show all the races that Riccardo participated in and have, almost immediately come across a case of him seemingly being in two places at one time.

According to the race results I've seen Riccardo particiapted in the 1977 European F2 Championship event at Nogaro on the 3rd July where he finished 2nd in a Chevron.

However, he also raced in the 1977 French GP on the same day in Dijon where his Shadow retired from the race.

With Nogaro and Dijon being a few hundered miles apart can this be possible, or are my dates simply wrong?

Edited by Maldwyn, 12 April 2012 - 10:42.

[2F-001]

The only source I have immediately to hand today is someone elses copy of 'Higham ed.1' which suggests that F2 race was held on the following weekend (the 10th). Don't know if that helps or further confuses, but it might be worth exploring that possibility further.

[Tim Murray]

As Tony suggested, the Nogaro F2 race took place on 10th July. The incorrect 3rd July date for it appears in the F1R Black Book, and hence has spread to the many internet sources that used it as a reference.

Edited by Tim Murray, 12 April 2012 - 11:13.

[Simon Taylor]

Your dates are wrong. The French Grand Prix was at Dijon on July 3rd 1977; the Nogaro F2 race was on July 10th. At Nogaro Riccardo qualified third behind Rene Arnoux (Martini) and Bruno Giacomelli (March). He collided with Giacomelli on Lap 4 and had a spin on Lap 25, by which time Rene Arnoux had built up a big lead in his Martini. But Riccardo still came home a comfortable second ahead of Ingo Hoffman, Giacomelli, Alberto Colombo and Marc Surer.

[Maldwyn]

The only source I have immediately to hand today is someone elses copy of 'Higham ed.1' which suggests that F2 race was held on the following weekend (the 10th). Don't know if that helps or further confuses, but it might be worth exploring that possibility further.

Thanks. It helps. Doing a search I came across a photo of Alain Prost at Nogaro in a F2 Kauhsen-Renault Elf 2J and the results page of http://www.prostfan.com/ says the race took place on the 10th July so that may well be the correct date.

My source for the previous weekend date was http://www.formula2.net/F277_17.htm.

[Maldwyn]

Your dates are wrong. The French Grand Prix was at Dijon on July 3rd 1977; the Nogaro F2 race was on July 10th. At Nogaro Riccardo qualified third behind Rene Arnoux (Martini) and Bruno Giacomelli (March). He collided with Giacomelli on Lap 4 and had a spin on Lap 25, by which time Rene Arnoux had built up a big lead in his Martini. But Riccardo still came home a comfortable second ahead of Ingo Hoffman, Giacomelli, Alberto Colombo and Marc Surer.

Thank you Simon and Tim. I did think that a 400+mile trip to race in two events on the same day was unlikely!

Edited by Maldwyn, 12 April 2012 - 11:22.

[arttidesco]

Thank you Simon and Tim. I did think that a 400+mile trip to race in two events on the same day was unlikely!

Unless of course you had a helicopter, without wishing to go too far off topic, it should also be noted that Tony Stewart, John Andretti and Robbie Gordon have all competed in the Indy 500 and Coca Cola 600 events which are held 500 miles apart on the same day.

[Maldwyn]

Unless of course you had a helicopter, without wishing to go too far off topic, it should also be noted that Tony Stewart, John Andretti and Robbie Gordon have all competed in the Indy 500 and Coca Cola 600 events which are held 500 miles apart on the same day.

True, although probably the Ambrosio budget would not have stretched quite that far

[Tim Murray]

A bit OT, but IIRC Patrese's contract with Trivellato for F2 took precedence over his F1 contract. However, there was only one date clash, when the Swedish GP took place on the same day as the Mugello F2 race. Jack Oliver was thus installed into the vacant Shadow seat in Sweden and was extremely chuffed to find himself alongside Niki Lauda on the grid for his last F1 race.

Edited by Tim Murray, 12 April 2012 - 15:11.

[Maldwyn]

Going OT again, and stating the obvious, but one thing that strikes me looking at a timeline of races is the sheer number and variety, and the amount of travelling done. I haven't added in all of the F1 races yet but looking at the mix of F1, F2, sports cars, Formula Pacific/Atlantic and Giro d'italia etc there couldn't have been many non-racing weekends, particularly in the late '70s and early 80's.

[arttidesco]

I haven't added in all of the F1 races yet but looking at the mix of F1, F2, sports cars, Formula Pacific/Atlantic and Giro d'italia etc there couldn't have been many non-racing weekends, particularly in the late '70s and early 80's.

Basically before those with an unashamed vested interest in Effone started ru(i)ning the sport, it was run in a round about and shambolic fashion ;)