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Chinese Grand Prix 2012 - Race Day


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#651 Bartel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:24

This was a great, exciting race. How could anyone complain about it??? Well... I couldn't believe all the klag! Chunks of rubber were starting to define the racing line - on the warm up lap!
It's pretty embarrassing - Highest-tech racing facilities, multimillion dollar cars - and they can't race because the tire debris litters the track. It's hard enough to pass in F1 with two available lanes!
I know we all 'want' changes in the series, and hate to see anything change. But I'd be happy with ONE dry tire. A hard one. If they want to add artificial drama to the race, via faster vs more durable tires, make one a narrower hard tire (with some sort of minor advantage), and at some point you have to run it during the race. The drama will still be the same - you may be racing against someone with a less desirable tire - or more desirable.
When - and why - did we let tire compounds define the race?

I was absolutely blown away by how many marbles there were on the approach to turn 13 on that mini straight before half distance! I remember seeing Lewis about to duck out for a look and there were marbles everywhere, same thing happened last year at the same track but I thought this year so far there has been way less marbles coming from the tyres? It wasn't as severe as last year, I remember the outside of the long back straight looked like a gravel road with all the marble build up

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#652 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:50

I was absolutely blown away by how many marbles there were on the approach to turn 13 on that mini straight before half distance! I remember seeing Lewis about to duck out for a look and there were marbles everywhere, same thing happened last year at the same track but I thought this year so far there has been way less marbles coming from the tyres? It wasn't as severe as last year, I remember the outside of the long back straight looked like a gravel road with all the marble build up

Ditto. I was just watching the replay and I noticed a fight between Senna and Romain - the former was trying to get the inside line and overtake (can you blame him?) but when braking the car was severely unstable, and he simply lost the battle, due to the enormous amount of tire marbles.
I'm happy to see Webber's short flight to be nothing more than a scary incident.

Other than that, in a pure racing terms, it was very interesting to see some of the battles, especially involving Mclaren, Sauber and Williams. The rest was tire nursing and strategy.

#653 ViMaMo

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:32

Im voicing the same shite at all places on the board, tyres need not be doctored this bad to produce interesting races. Its getting to the point where im thinking of the gladiator fighting, has F1 come to such deliberate 'bow to the public' manipulation of specs that we have lost the entire philosophy of engineering. Its more like a video game philosophy. This isnt even something like restriction, Id like to see them put in harder tyres or narrower tyres or work on some other areas to help aid overtaking.

#654 Bartel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:42

Ditto. I was just watching the replay and I noticed a fight between Senna and Romain - the former was trying to get the inside line and overtake (can you blame him?) but when braking the car was severely unstable, and he simply lost the battle, due to the enormous amount of tire marbles.
I'm happy to see Webber's short flight to be nothing more than a scary incident.

Other than that, in a pure racing terms, it was very interesting to see some of the battles, especially involving Mclaren, Sauber and Williams. The rest was tire nursing and strategy.

That was the fight with Maldonado. I sort of miss the days of the grooved tyres where it was sprint racing between stints. The strategy as more interesting and drivers weren't in a race of conseration, they were out there driving as fast as possible at all times between stints. Will we ever see refuelling again?

#655 baddog

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:42

The race would have been even better without the tyre nonsense, it really would. It also seems to enormously favour drivers in clean air, fight for a place for 5 laps and its goodbye grip.

#656 iotar

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:07

What are these tyres you are all talking about? I think I watched different races this season because as far as I noticed:
- there were plenty of fights lasting more than 5 laps altogether
- two stopper was actually better because of traffic and, yes indeed, tyres lasting longer
- this race looked more like pre DRS/Pirellis races, although without artificial sprint to pitstop x 3 "racing"
- unlike for example KERS in 2009 with tyres it's the same for everybody
- how easily people forget boring days of processional racing decided after qualifying and first pitstop, won by either McLaren or Ferrari, whichever team preferred the track, with 10 s advantage early on. But no in those days no marbles thank god.
- the best thing about Pirellis - although now they already after three races have it figured out - was that you had to balance between race and qualifying (no refuelling helps),
- so tyres are sensitive to temperature - big deal

#657 Jon83

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:46

Terrific GP. Superb fights all the way through the field with different strategies, tyres etc

Great drive by Nico and such wonderful celebrations after. Norbert Haug's and Ross Brawn's interview on Sky F1 after the race inside the garage was brilliant.

#658 velgajski1

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:54

What are these tyres you are all talking about? I think I watched different races this season because as far as I noticed:
- there were plenty of fights lasting more than 5 laps altogether
- two stopper was actually better because of traffic and, yes indeed, tyres lasting longer
- this race looked more like pre DRS/Pirellis races, although without artificial sprint to pitstop x 3 "racing"
- unlike for example KERS in 2009 with tyres it's the same for everybody
- how easily people forget boring days of processional racing decided after qualifying and first pitstop, won by either McLaren or Ferrari, whichever team preferred the track, with 10 s advantage early on. But no in those days no marbles thank god.
- the best thing about Pirellis - although now they already after three races have it figured out - was that you had to balance between race and qualifying (no refuelling helps),
- so tyres are sensitive to temperature - big deal


This.

I have never seen grid being so close. Realistically, in 3 different races, 3 different cars performed best. I think its more about disgruntled fans from some drivers who have a bit more difficult time on Pirellis. That's where complains come from. And its hard to imagine that we won't have a race where RBR will be fastest, maybe even Lotus in some races.


Edited by velgajski1, 16 April 2012 - 08:55.


#659 VresiBerba

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:34

You are allowed to make one move off the racing line. Hamilton made his move left off the racing line, returned to it, then made another move right off the racing line.

Clear penalty im afraid.

What is a clear penalty is the unsafe release of Kimi beside Lewis, the latter was after all given a penalty for the same thing at the same place at the same track just two years ago. Why not Kimi? Has the rules changed.

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#660 Kvothe

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:46

What is a clear penalty is the unsafe release of Kimi beside Lewis, the latter was after all given a penalty for the same thing at the same place at the same track just two years ago. Why not Kimi? Has the rules changed.

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No he wasn't, he along with Seb were reprimanded at best, however I'm sure the drivers clarified last year that as long as there was room in the pit lane that they would be allowed to be released early and go side by side, for example Massa and Lewis in Turkey 2011 for which no penalty was given.


Edited by Kvothe, 16 April 2012 - 09:49.


#661 VresiBerba

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:51

No he wasn't, he along with Seb were reprimanded at best, however I'm sure the drivers clarified last year...

A reprimand is still a penalty, especially these days since three of them result in a grid penalty. But I was actually trying to be a wee bit sarcastic as I couldn't believe my eyes that Lewis was penalised in 2010 for that.

#662 Kvothe

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:54

A reprimand is still a penalty, especially these days since three of them result in a grid penalty. But I was actually trying to be a wee bit sarcastic as I couldn't believe my eyes that Lewis was penalised in 2010 for that.


Oh right, it went right over my head :lol:

#663 Jon83

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:03

What is a clear penalty is the unsafe release of Kimi beside Lewis, the latter was after all given a penalty for the same thing at the same place at the same track just two years ago. Why not Kimi? Has the rules changed.

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I know anything is possible when it comes to a penalty, but yesterday was nothing other than good honest racing.

There was nothing unsafe about Kimi's release.

#664 selespeed

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:33

What are these tyres you are all talking about? I think I watched different races this season because as far as I noticed:
- there were plenty of fights lasting more than 5 laps altogether
- two stopper was actually better because of traffic and, yes indeed, tyres lasting longer
- this race looked more like pre DRS/Pirellis races, although without artificial sprint to pitstop x 3 "racing"
- unlike for example KERS in 2009 with tyres it's the same for everybody
- how easily people forget boring days of processional racing decided after qualifying and first pitstop, won by either McLaren or Ferrari, whichever team preferred the track, with 10 s advantage early on. But no in those days no marbles thank god.
- the best thing about Pirellis - although now they already after three races have it figured out - was that you had to balance between race and qualifying (no refuelling helps),
- so tyres are sensitive to temperature - big deal



+12.388.645

anybody who has anything against the way the race unfolded yesterday can watch for example hungary 2004.

#665 Bartel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:55

What is a clear penalty is the unsafe release of Kimi beside Lewis, the latter was after all given a penalty for the same thing at the same place at the same track just two years ago. Why not Kimi? Has the rules changed.

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Lewis was not penalised for the same thing in 2010. Had there been a pitlane full of mechanics then yes, but it was empty, and that pit lane is rather wide anyway.

#666 Go_Go

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 14:11

Don't know if mentioned before,Webeer's try-to-fly:

I am amazed how mechanically strong is RB8 :up:

#667 RealRacing

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 17:49

Im voicing the same shite at all places on the board, tyres need not be doctored this bad to produce interesting races. Its getting to the point where im thinking of the gladiator fighting, has F1 come to such deliberate 'bow to the public' manipulation of specs that we have lost the entire philosophy of engineering. Its more like a video game philosophy. This isnt even something like restriction, Id like to see them put in harder tyres or narrower tyres or work on some other areas to help aid overtaking.


Nico has said it, "There was not one lap in the race where you could go flat out. You really have to take it carefully and manage the tyres, so it's very challenging."

Come one, these are not primarily tyre management races. FIA or whoever is trying to cover the fact that they failed with the objective they themselves set for 2009> to make races more competitive via controlling aero. DRS and these tyres are a result of them trying to make it better artificially. On the other hand, if the owner of the circus, which at some point said that races should include short cuts and sprinklers, is the one seeking this kind of video game show, well...

I think an important distinction should be made. Some of us who are not happy with these tyres are happy with the general idea behind different compounds. It's just that it's not working with these Pirellis; there is too much influence by the tyres and the mandatory compound rule. In no way would I want F1 to go back to refuelling and same number of stints for everybody at the max. However, the compounds should allow drivers to push at max. or close to max. for the designed window (if they choose to stretch the window then it's ok for the tyre to degrade more), but if a driver who has just won a GP says that he was never able to go 100% then this is not car racing, much less F1.

#668 race addicted

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 17:55

The tires are crap. I think most agree, be it drivers, engineers, fans etc etc.

#669 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:17

The tires are crap. I think most agree, be it drivers, engineers, fans etc etc.

They are not crap - they are created crappy, because Pirelli were asked to do so.
And this is to cover the main deficit - the lack of overtaking or thrilling moments per se, because the tracks are designed that way.
F1 has also become primarily aerodynamic-dominated, and clever solutions like Ride height system by Lotus and the like are banned - it's not engineering lab, it's driven by fragile tires.
Certainly, it's much more easier and cheaper to go for the tires rather than changing the tracks - this is what I don't like.

#670 RealRacing

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:37

They are not crap - they are created crappy, because Pirelli were asked to do so.
And this is to cover the main deficit - the lack of overtaking or thrilling moments per se, because the tracks are designed that way.
F1 has also become primarily aerodynamic-dominated, and clever solutions like Ride height system by Lotus and the like are banned - it's not engineering lab, it's driven by fragile tires.
Certainly, it's much more easier and cheaper to go for the tires rather than changing the tracks - this is what I don't like.


I think if they finished applying what they set out to do in 2009, or continue with the main idea, things would improve. It´s impractical, to say the least, to change tracks. I mean, a few changes could be made here and there but anything else is too expensive and I believe many of the tracks have the potential to produce great racing anyway...if the cars are right for them.

Yeah ok, maybe the tyres are not crap (I don´t know how much leeway Pirelli had to make them anyway), but let´s say the idea behind the tyre that was required is crap. I mean, last year was better, why did they change them again? Bottom line, they are trying to cover holes with partial solutions. Get the cars (aero, grip, turbulence, etc.) right and then go from there.




#671 Snic

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:40

Nico has said it, "There was not one lap in the race where you could go flat out. You really have to take it carefully and manage the tyres, so it's very challenging."

Come one, these are not primarily tyre management races. FIA or whoever is trying to cover the fact that they failed with the objective they themselves set for 2009> to make races more competitive via controlling aero. DRS and these tyres are a result of them trying to make it better artificially. On the other hand, if the owner of the circus, which at some point said that races should include short cuts and sprinklers, is the one seeking this kind of video game show, well...

I think an important distinction should be made. Some of us who are not happy with these tyres are happy with the general idea behind different compounds. It's just that it's not working with these Pirellis; there is too much influence by the tyres and the mandatory compound rule. In no way would I want F1 to go back to refuelling and same number of stints for everybody at the max. However, the compounds should allow drivers to push at max. or close to max. for the designed window (if they choose to stretch the window then it's ok for the tyre to degrade more), but if a driver who has just won a GP says that he was never able to go 100% then this is not car racing, much less F1.


The Mercedes strategy for Nico could only work if he looked after his tyres as they elected to do a 2-stop. You can't blame Pirelli for Mercedes choosing to turn this into an endurance race by not 3-stopping. I'm all for the split strategy, that's why Button's pitstop fiasco ruined what could have been an awesome climax. Button on the fresher tyres would have been pushing his car to the limit to catch a conservative Nico.

It's not like Pirelli's dont let drivers push, Perez at Malaysia was on the limit every lap trying to catch Fernando. Similarly I remember Alonso saying he put 10 qualifying laps together at the end of the Korean Grand Prix last year whilst chasing Button. All the drivers have had to modify their driving styles slightly as oversteer and lock-ups are a deadly sin with Pirelli's. But for me that hasn't made the racing any less intense, I've had to adapt what I expect from an F1 race too. IMO this is way better than a procession like the old days, which is the alternative...

Edited by Snic, 16 April 2012 - 18:42.


#672 engel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:48

The tires are crap. I think most agree, be it drivers, engineers, fans etc etc.


I don't know which fans you have been talking to but personally I wouldn't go back to procession-fest Brickestones even if F1 paid me to watch.

#673 race addicted

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:58

I don't know which fans you have been talking to but personally I wouldn't go back to procession-fest Brickestones even if F1 paid me to watch.


I totally agree with that of course, but many wonder why they had to make them so marginal? I think I read the racing-layer on the tires are a meager six millimeters!
The operating window is too marginal, around 5-10'C, and I believe this trickiness is actually - crazy it may seem - robbing us of what could be even better racing.

Edited by race addicted, 16 April 2012 - 18:58.


#674 jbarokF1

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 19:02

China last year was pretty epic too. In my opinion though, its going back a few years, but the best dry race I have ever watched was Suzuka 2005. That race was superb.


:up: :up:

The best in the last decade...so far none has surpassed that race in the current decade.

#675 ivand911

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 19:12

I think there was a lot of marbles this race because it was cold. When temperatures will be higher the tyres will hold better and will not create so much marbles. In the cold tyres degrade to much.
http://www.pirelli.c...ese-grand-prix/

Edited by ivand911, 16 April 2012 - 19:15.


#676 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 19:57

They are not crap - they are created crappy, because Pirelli were asked to do so.
And this is to cover the main deficit - the lack of overtaking or thrilling moments per se, because the tracks are designed that way.
F1 has also become primarily aerodynamic-dominated, and clever solutions like Ride height system by Lotus and the like are banned - it's not engineering lab, it's driven by fragile tires.
Certainly, it's much more easier and cheaper to go for the tires rather than changing the tracks - this is what I don't like.


I think several of the tracks will support overtaking. But it's too dangerous to go offline in search of another way around, because of all the marbles, this race being a prime example of that. In a couple of spots it looked like there was gravel off the racing line.

No matter how well the track is designed, if it's impossible to use alternate lines, the racing will suffer.

#677 RealRacing

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 20:32

The Mercedes strategy for Nico could only work if he looked after his tyres as they elected to do a 2-stop. You can't blame Pirelli for Mercedes choosing to turn this into an endurance race by not 3-stopping. I'm all for the split strategy, that's why Button's pitstop fiasco ruined what could have been an awesome climax. Button on the fresher tyres would have been pushing his car to the limit to catch a conservative Nico.

It's not like Pirelli's dont let drivers push, Perez at Malaysia was on the limit every lap trying to catch Fernando. Similarly I remember Alonso saying he put 10 qualifying laps together at the end of the Korean Grand Prix last year whilst chasing Button. All the drivers have had to modify their driving styles slightly as oversteer and lock-ups are a deadly sin with Pirelli's. But for me that hasn't made the racing any less intense, I've had to adapt what I expect from an F1 race too. IMO this is way better than a procession like the old days, which is the alternative...


I agree and, as someone has said, I prefer this to the way it was before (however, I think this had more to do with refuelling than other factors). Now, if they would fix the mandatory compound rule it would improve significantly. In any case, it's great that the tyres are allowing different strategies and accommodate different styles. In fact, during one of my favourite times in F1, it was like this. However, I think they have gone too far. The cars are not only having troubles finding the right setup for the race but all the practices and qualifying seem to revolve around making the car work for the narrow window of optimum tyre performance. And it's not only Mercedes but Ferrari, Lotus, Sauber...

By the way, just for argument's sake, what do you guys think of a rock hard tyre for the entire race? Less variables, more on-track racing?


#678 Snic

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 20:53

I agree and, as someone has said, I prefer this to the way it was before (however, I think this had more to do with refuelling than other factors). Now, if they would fix the mandatory compound rule it would improve significantly. In any case, it's great that the tyres are allowing different strategies and accommodate different styles. In fact, during one of my favourite times in F1, it was like this. However, I think they have gone too far. The cars are not only having troubles finding the right setup for the race but all the practices and qualifying seem to revolve around making the car work for the narrow window of optimum tyre performance. And it's not only Mercedes but Ferrari, Lotus, Sauber...

By the way, just for argument's sake, what do you guys think of a rock hard tyre for the entire race? Less variables, more on-track racing?


The tyre choice is dictating the strategy rather than the strategy dictating the tyre choice. I think that is holding F1 back a little. However Pirelli have improved the time differentials between the soft and medium this year, I'm sure as soon as the FIA are sure that the balance between all the sets are perfect they'll scrap the compulsory tyre change rule.

Pirelli definitely didn't intend to create such a narrow windowed tyre. AFAIK they only changed 2 things to the tyre; firstly the profile of the tyre was made slightly more square to increase the contact patch. Doubt that this is affecting the race pace too much. I think they also changed the rubber itself because the A-spec tyre was falling off too suddenly, which got a bit of criticism last year. It'd take someone from Pirelli to explain why the tyres have a very small 'sweet spot' this time around. It may well be reducing the racing but it's unintentionally mixing everything up. I'm sure Alonso and Perez won't be complaining about the tyre spec!

And unfortunately rock hard tyres would kill modern F1. With the fastest at the front, the slowest at the back, Bahrain and Valencia on the calender, huge aero wake and no pit-stops... This would basically turn F1 into the World's most expensive consantina. Tyre management has always been part of racing, rock-hard tyres would be just as artificial as the current ones. Just because the technology to create such a tyre is there, doesn't mean we should use it.

#679 RealRacing

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 22:21

The tyre choice is dictating the strategy rather than the strategy dictating the tyre choice. I think that is holding F1 back a little. However Pirelli have improved the time differentials between the soft and medium this year, I'm sure as soon as the FIA are sure that the balance between all the sets are perfect they'll scrap the compulsory tyre change rule.


Right and that's what's frustrating. And it will continue to be that way if they don't let them freely choose what compounds they want to use for which race. It's like the cars and teams have to get used to the tyres and not the other way around as it should be. Would you care to explain why you think FIA will eliminate the compulsory change once the balance is achieved?

Pirelli definitely didn't intend to create such a narrow windowed tyre. AFAIK they only changed 2 things to the tyre; firstly the profile of the tyre was made slightly more square to increase the contact patch. Doubt that this is affecting the race pace too much. I think they also changed the rubber itself because the A-spec tyre was falling off too suddenly, which got a bit of criticism last year. It'd take someone from Pirelli to explain why the tyres have a very small 'sweet spot' this time around. It may well be reducing the racing but it's unintentionally mixing everything up. I'm sure Alonso and Perez won't be complaining about the tyre spec!


And it is precisely this sweet spot search that is annoying me and I am sure all drivers and teams. They should try to sort it ASAP if possible. As said, these guys have enough on their hands with the constant changes and limited testing. And it's not fair for us fans either as we don't want to watch "testing races". I'd rather see a shorter calendar with cars sorted than the much promoted longer calendar with the first races being no more than an extended test.

And unfortunately rock hard tyres would kill modern F1. With the fastest at the front, the slowest at the back, Bahrain and Valencia on the calender, huge aero wake and no pit-stops... This would basically turn F1 into the World's most expensive consantina. Tyre management has always been part of racing, rock-hard tyres would be just as artificial as the current ones. Just because the technology to create such a tyre is there, doesn't mean we should use it.


I have voiced my opinion in this thread and other similar ones that the first thing that needs to get addressed and sorted is the aero part; everything else should follow from there. Unfortunately, it seems they gave up on it and instead are trying to improve by introducing quick fixes like DRS and these tyres. IMO with aero sorted, passable cars and a field as close as this one (apparently), no-stop races could be very entertaining. At the end of the day, if managed properly, you can make many different things work. But I guess we all know BE does not give a damn about racing...


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#680 Bartel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 23:06

I think the ban on refueling has alot to do with some fans not liking the tyres. I for one was unhappy about the ban, it took away one element of the sport, proper race strategies, and took away the 'sprint' format which I liked alot.

#681 GX390

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 21:27

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded LOL

#682 Markn93

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 21:35

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded LOL


:lol: 3:45 Schuey and Lewis :up:

Edited by Markn93, 18 April 2012 - 21:35.


#683 GX390

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 21:36

:lol: 3:45 Schuey and Lewis :up:


And then Lewis does it to Jenson :lol:

#684 amitch1993

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 21:37

:lol: 3:45 Schuey and Lewis :up:


I'll have to bookmark that, i'm sure it'll come in handy some day :')

#685 PEW

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 22:16

I enjoyed that - thanks :up:
Did anyone spot Charles Pic in the interview pen looking like a lost sheep because no-one want to interview him?

#686 GX390

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 22:18

I enjoyed that - thanks :up:
Did anyone spot Charles Pic in the interview pen looking like a lost sheep because no-one want to interview him?


No problem :) and no I didn't, is there a video of it? :)

#687 SonicAngel

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 23:49

Such a damn waste! 6 World Champions all together, being stupid and stuff and it's all ruined by a Chinese chick constantly speaking... Chinese! Get an English speaking interviewer and do it properly!

#688 Bartel

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 00:14

:lol: 3:45 Schuey and Lewis :up:

Did anyone see Alonso going down while Jenson was talking? :rotfl: jolt jolt JOLT

#689 Bartel

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 00:14

Such a damn waste! 6 World Champions all together, being stupid and stuff and it's all ruined by a Chinese chick constantly speaking... Chinese! Get an English speaking interviewer and do it properly!

....it was for a Chinese Tv Channel :lol: go figure huh? crazy world!

#690 Markn93

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:04

Did anyone see Alonso going down while Jenson was talking? :rotfl: jolt jolt JOLT


And Kimi and Seb at 2:50 :lol:

#691 HoldenRT

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:20

A bit late but better late than never.

Congrats to Nico Rosberg, what a great way to win your first ever F1 race.. :up: :up: :up:

#692 HoldenRT

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:33

China last year was pretty epic too. In my opinion though, its going back a few years, but the best dry race I have ever watched was Suzuka 2005. That race was superb.

Agree.

#693 KitSpack

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:26

A bit late but better late than never.

Congrats to Nico Rosberg, what a great way to win your first ever F1 race.. :up: :up: :up:


Also late but they took an age to approve my joining here....... ):

Wasn't this year's Chinese GP the first F1 race won by a German driver in a German car?

I don't meant 'Grand Prix' races as I'm sure that happened before WWII more than once, I mean in the current period of F1 since 1950. Mercedes has been the only winning German constructor in this period and their wins in the 1950s W196 were by Fangio or Stirling Moss.

Edited by KitSpack, 21 April 2012 - 11:27.


#694 Bleu

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 17:23

Also late but they took an age to approve my joining here....... ):

Wasn't this year's Chinese GP the first F1 race won by a German driver in a German car?

I don't meant 'Grand Prix' races as I'm sure that happened before WWII more than once, I mean in the current period of F1 since 1950. Mercedes has been the only winning German constructor in this period and their wins in the 1950s W196 were by Fangio or Stirling Moss.


Yes it was. Look other way round too.

von Trips - Ferrari
Mass - McLaren
M Schumacher - Benetton, Ferrari
Frentzen - Williams, Jordan
R Schumacher - Williams
Vettel - Toro Rosso, Red Bull

#695 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 17:42

Wasn't this year's Chinese GP the first F1 race won by a German driver in a German car?

If Mercedes can keep up the good form, Hockenheim could be exciting. :)