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Father and son GP wins


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#1 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:13

With Nico Rosbergs win today in China how many other fathers and sons have won an F1 GP?
I cannot think of any though that doesnt mean a great deal!

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#2 ChrisJson

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:17

Graham and Damon?

#3 Gary C

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:24

Easy. Gilles and Jacques.

#4 Gary C

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:28

.........and I'm actually wondering if Stan and Alan Jones qualify, too??

#5 nicanary

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:31

It depends whether you mean F1 of GP - Antonio and Alberto Ascari?

#6 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:33

.........and I'm actually wondering if Stan and Alan Jones qualify, too??

Stan never drove F1 to my knowledge. He raced in Australian GPs of course but they were not World Championship events until 85.
And yes I do mean F1 World Championship events. I guess there may be several at National level GPs

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 15 April 2012 - 12:36.


#7 nicanary

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:34

Sorry -stupid typo - I meant F1 OR GP. In which case the Jones duo qualify' even if the Australian GP wasn't run to F1 regs.

#8 Gary C

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:48

......and wouldn't it be neat if Josh Hill gets to F1 and wins a GP??

#9 john aston

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:52

With Nico Rosbergs win today in China how many other fathers and sons have won an F1 GP?
I cannot think of any though that doesnt mean a great deal!

Just about to sit down to watch GP and stumble across this post...Which will rather remove any supense the race might have. ..Damn ! . Suggest contemperorary stuff like this should be headed as contaning spoliers

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 13:06

Building quite a list here...

Stan Jones was driving a current F1 car when he won his Australian GP, Alan Jones was also.

They and the Ascaris are the only ones to have won their own country's GPs, from memory.

#11 David Lawson

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 13:42

This thread already covers this subject.

Fathers Sons

David

#12 kayemod

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 13:53

This thread already covers this subject.

Fathers Sons

David


True, and what mystifies me, is how anyone with over 3000 posts on TNF could be unaware of the Hills, the Villeneuves, and even the Ascaris.


#13 MCS

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 14:22

True, and what mystifies me, is how anyone with over 3000 posts on TNF could be unaware of the Hills, the Villeneuves, and even the Ascaris.


I couldn't agree more.

When I saw the title I immediately assumed it was another History Fan thread...


#14 kayemod

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 14:26

I couldn't agree more.

When I saw the title I immediately assumed it was another History Fan thread...


Ah yes, has anyone here done a top ten list of Famous Fathers ?


#15 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 15:49

How about the Andretti's


How about them indeed? :confused:

DCN

#16 PCC

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 15:53

How about them indeed? :confused:

DCN

I suppose we'll have to start a thread on F1 winners whose sons did not win GPs... :rolleyes:

#17 kayemod

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 17:37

I suppose we'll have to start a thread on F1 winners whose sons did not win GPs... :rolleyes:


I feel on pretty safe ground nominating Ayrton Senna for that one.


#18 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 17:44

I feel on pretty safe ground nominating Ayrton Senna for that one.

And Mario.

Don't see his grandson ever managing it either.

#19 PCC

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 17:47

I feel on pretty safe ground nominating Ayrton Senna for that one.

Not fair, nephews don't count!

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#20 kayemod

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 17:50

Not fair, nephews don't count!


I think we'd better call a halt to this, I'm starting to sense a rise in Blood Pressure coming on...


#21 ensign14

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:03

I feel on pretty safe ground nominating Ayrton Senna for that one.

Senna has a son?

#22 E.B.

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:39

Senna has a son?


No, hence the safety of the ground presumably.


#23 Tuboscocca

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:48

No winners , but both GP participants

Wilson and Christian Fittipaldi..

at least father and son


Regards Michael

#24 Tuboscocca

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 18:51

I suppose we'll have to start a thread on F1 winners whose sons did not win GPs... :rolleyes:



or the other way round F1 winning sons, who's fathers achieved nothing...

Michael

#25 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:00

Neither I nor my father won GPs - but then, we didn't start any...

#26 ryan86

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:12

I have as many World Snooker Championships as Jimmy White, as many F1 drivers titles as Stirling Moss, as many wins as Chris Amon or Nick Heidfeld, as many Indy 500's as Michael Andretti, as many golfing majors as Colin Montgomerie and as many Olympic medals as Paula Radcliffe. Sometimes things don't quite work out the way they should

#27 E.B.

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:16

Michael Andretti may not have won a GP, but I do recall him finishing first a couple of times - about an hour and a half before the race winner.






#28 PCC

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:28

Neither I nor my father won GPs - but then, we didn't start any...

I'm sure we can start a thread for that, too...

#29 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:40

I can think of several occasions where a driver won a Grand Prix he hadn't started in, for example Achille Varzi in the 1931 French GP. :p

#30 BRG

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:43

I suppose we'll have to start a thread on F1 winners whose sons did not win GPs... :rolleyes:

I bid two Brabhams, an Andretti and a Piquet.

#31 GMACKIE

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 20:56

Keke and Nico Rosberg :clap:

#32 MCS

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:07

Keke and Nico Rosberg :clap:


:confused:

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:22

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
With Nico Rosbergs win today in China how many other fathers and sons have won an F1 GP?
I cannot think of any though that doesn't mean a great deal!


Originally posted by kayemod
True, and what mystifies me, is how anyone with over 3000 posts on TNF could be unaware of the Hills, the Villeneuves, and even the Ascaris.


I think he is asking for a level of tolerance there...

In most circumstances, I think you're right posing that point, however.

An interesting 'father and son' thing is the European GP.

#34 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:40

I couldn't agree more.

When I saw the title I immediately assumed it was another History Fan thread...

I asked simple question. At 8 oclock in the evening and dog tired.And on the evening that Nico Rosberg achieved at least in part what Keke did.
So it seems we have the Hills and Villenueves. As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs. As did many other countrys, eg Stan and Alan Jones in Oz.

#35 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 23:40

I couldn't agree more.

When I saw the title I immediately assumed it was another History Fan thread...

I asked simple question. At 8 oclock in the evening and dog tired.And on the evening that Nico Rosberg achieved at least in part what Keke did.
So it seems we have the Hills and Villenueves. As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs. As did many other countrys, eg Stan and Alan Jones in Oz.

#36 ryan86

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 00:11

The Piquets did get within 5 laps or so.

(Piquet) Nelson 1st Nelson Jnr 2nd
(Andretti) Mario 1st Michael 3rd
(Brabham) Jack 1st Gary DNQ David 10th
(Nakajima) Satoru 4th Kazuki 6th
(Pilette) Andre 5th Teddy 17th
(Fittipaldi) Wilson 5th Christian 4th
(Winkelhock) Manfred 5th Markus DNF

There must have been a few more, I just can't think of them.

#37 David McKinney

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:43

As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs. As did many other countrys, eg Stan and Alan Jones in Oz.

Ascari Sr won the equivalent of WDC Grands Prix, as mentioned by Ray Bell, and Junior won enough races at that level to be world champion on two occasions. And if you're dismissing him on the basis that the WDC happened to be for F2 cars at that time, he did also win world championship F1 races
The Joneses are different, in that Stan did indeed win only a national-level GP


#38 kayemod

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:42

Senna has a son?


Ah, a lawyer sensing a potentially lucrative paternity suit...?


#39 Vicuna

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:25

I asked simple question. At 8 oclock in the evening and dog tired.And on the evening that Nico Rosberg achieved at least in part what Keke did.
So it seems we have the Hills and Villenueves. As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs. As did many other countrys, eg Stan and Alan Jones in Oz.


I feel for you Lee - you ask a simple question and then they pounce - with their sniggering, and tut-tuts.

I reckon there are people here would just love to hand out detentions because cars or drivers or circuits names are mis-spelt.

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#40 uechtel

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:27

As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs.


Ascari Sr won the equivalent of WDC Grands Prix, as mentioned by Ray Bell, and Junior won enough races at that level to be world champion on two occasions. And if you're dismissing him on the basis that the WDC happened to be for F2 cars at that time, he did also win world championship F1 races


One could also say that Antonio won half of the 1924 season´s top level Grand Prix races while Alberto achieved an 86% success rate in 1952 (or 33% / 75% if you include Indianapolis). Don´t think this will ever be topped. Anyway the Rosbergs are far away from such numbers...

The Piquets did get within 5 laps or so.

(Piquet) Nelson 1st Nelson Jnr 2nd
(Andretti) Mario 1st Michael 3rd
(Brabham) Jack 1st Gary DNQ David 10th
(Nakajima) Satoru 4th Kazuki 6th
(Pilette) Andre 5th Teddy 17th
(Fittipaldi) Wilson 5th Christian 4th
(Winkelhock) Manfred 5th Markus DNF

There must have been a few more, I just can't think of them.


(Pilette) Theodore (DNF) Andre (5th) Teddy (17th) makes three generations...

Edited by uechtel, 16 April 2012 - 08:28.


#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:32

No further discussion on the European Grand Prix?

This is one event title that proves that the Ascaris both won at the top level.

#42 PCC

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 15:30

So it seems we have the Hills and Villenueves. As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs.

So I guess the simple answer to your question is that it has been done once - by Altonio Hilleneuve. Until matched on Sunday by Keko Rosberg.

Don't mean to snigger - just to be irreverent! :lol:

#43 uechtel

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:02

In fact the Ascaris were the only father and son combination both to win the European Grand Prix!

#44 David McKinney

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:31

I think that's what Ray's been trying to say for the past several days :)

#45 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:56

I am always puzzled as Rosberg Jnr being a German rather than a Finn. I would think most folk would take their father's nationality rather than from the place of birth.

#46 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:00

In fact the Ascaris were the only father and son combination both to win the European Grand Prix!

But was the European GP then part of the World Championship? If so totally relevant to the question if not it is irrellavant. My vague knowledge of the World Championship starts in the late 50s.
The so called modern championship started in the early 50s?

#47 kayemod

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:05

I am always puzzled as Rosberg Jnr being a German rather than a Finn. I would think most folk would take their father's nationality rather than from the place of birth.


I think that his place of birth (Wiesbaden) and Dad's nationality means that Nico gets dual nationality, though last I heard, he hardly spoke any Finnish at all.

No doubt others will correct me on this, but Nico's victory last weekend is a bit of a milestone, I think it was the first for a German driver in a Grand Prix driving a German car since Hermann Lang's victory at the 1939 Swiss Grand Prix, am I right with that? It all depends on how you define nationality of course, not only with the driver, but also the car, though as the good Dr Lawrence always says, "follow the money".


#48 LittleChris

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:08

And of course Keke was born in Sweden !

#49 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:41

No doubt others will correct me on this, but Nico's victory last weekend is a bit of a milestone, I think it was the first for a German driver in a Grand Prix driving a German car since Hermann Lang's victory at the 1939 Swiss Grand Prix, am I right with that? It all depends on how you define nationality of course, not only with the driver, but also the car ...

... and how you define a Grand Prix. Karl Kling in a W196 won the 1954 Berlin GP at Avus, but as the chief opposition to the three Mercedes was the works Gordini team, it hardly counts. :lol:

Edited by Tim Murray, 17 April 2012 - 10:42.


#50 Spaceframe

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:55

I asked simple question. At 8 oclock in the evening and dog tired.And on the evening that Nico Rosberg achieved at least in part what Keke did.
So it seems we have the Hills and Villenueves. As far as i understand the Ascaris, way before my time only won National level GPs. As did many other countrys, eg Stan and Alan Jones in Oz.

Antonio Ascari won the 1925 Belgian GP, which was a round of the first world championship (for manufacturers) - the other three rounds were Indianapolis 500, the French GP and the Italian GP. Alfa Romeo took the title - as far as I recall runners-up were Duesenberg and Delage. The points system was a bit different from today's - a win was one point, second place was two points, while those that didn't compete scored (if my memory still doesn't fail me) six points. So, both Ascaris won world championship GPs.

Edit:
I've just checked with Leif Snellman's site. The points system went like this:

1. place = 1 point
2. place = 2 points
3. place = 3 points
Other finishers = 4 points
Non finishers = 5 points
Non starters = 6 points

The contestants scored points from their three best finishes - but the Italian GP was obligatory, so it would under all circumstances be considered one of the three rounds counting.


Edited by Spaceframe, 17 April 2012 - 11:49.