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58 cuban gp


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#1 quintin cloud

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 07:42

I've seen in some books that they speak about the '58 Cuban GP
can someone tell me about the gp and the race result ?


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#2 D-a-S

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 08:59

As far as I know, is that the special thing about this race was that Juan Manual Fangio was kidnapped by some local Cubans and therefor couldn't compete in the race.

#3 Wolf

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 11:09

I'm not the most knowledgable around, but I'll give it a go- it was a GP for sportscars and held at Havana on February 23rd. As mentioned Castro's people kidnapped Fangio (it was in Batista's time) and race was stopped after 5 laps due to accident (some say Castro's people oiled the track). Pole sitter Moss let Masten ahead (or so he says) to 'find' the oil, but with race being red flagged and crowd all over the track, he passed him for the win. Masten was sore but after they pooled prize money an split it in halves, he seemed a bit appeased.

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 12:41

Let's get down to some nitty gritty here... Mossy wrote that he had read the rules and remembered that the red flag was only to be displayed at the start/finish line. But it came out elsewhere and Masten pulled up there. Moss went on by and took the win because he ignored that flag and proceeded to the one at the start/finish.

#5 Wolf

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 16:55

BTW, how's with that rule today? That'd explain Schumacher's Silverstone incident (whilst overtaking Irvine unde red flag)...

#6 fines

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 17:11

When was that? :confused:

#7 sat

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 18:49

Habana
II GP de Cuba

6x5,591 km
1. - 4 - Ferrari 335S #0674 3.5 - Stirling Moss - GB - 6 - 12:59,03 / pr. 2. - 1:59,20
2. - Ferrari 4.9 - Masten Gregory - USA - 6 - 13:00,00 / Pr. 3.- 02:01,50
3. - Maserati 450S - Carroll Shelby - USA - 6 - 13:15,00
4. - Ferrari 3.8 - Wolfgang von Trips - D - 6 - 13:26,08
5. - Maserati 200S - Harry Schell - USA - 6 - 13:39,05
6. - Maserati 200S - Jo Bonnier - S - 6 - 13:45,08
7. - Maserati 300S - Jean Behra - F - 6 - 13:46,01 / pr. 4. - 02:05,400
8. - Ferrari 3.5 - Ed Crawford - USA - 6 - 13:47,00
9. - Ferrari 3.5 - Paul O'Shea - USA - 6 - 13:50,00
10. - Maserati 200S - Giorgio Scarlatti - I - 6 - 13:51,00
11. - Maserati 450S - Maurice Trintignant - F - 6 - 13:52,00
12. - Ferrari 3.0 - Piero Drogo - YV - 6 - 13:53,00
13. - Porsche 1.6 - Roberto Miéres - RA - 5 - 11:35,00
14. - Ferrari TR 2.0 - Bruce Kessler - USA - 5 - 11:51,09
15. - Ferrari TR 2.0 - Bob Said - USA - 5 - 12:03,20
16. - Maserati 450S - Jim Kimberley - USA - 5 - 12:10,05
17. - Porsche 1.6 - von Dory - 5 - 12:11,05
18. - Porsche 1.6 - Ulf Norinder - S - 5 - 12:12,00
19. - 8 - Ferrari 335S - Phil Hill - USA - 5 - 12:12,04 / Pr.2. - 1:59,20
20. - Ferrari TR 2.0 - A. Carredas - 5 - 12:27,05
21. - Maserati 300S - Francisco Godia - E - 5 - 12:28,0
22. - Ferrari TR 2.0 - M. de la Mesa - 5 - 12:32,02
23. - Ferrari TR 2.0 - Porfirio Rubirosa - 5 - 12:23,00
24. - Ferrari TR 2.0 - C. Flynn - 5 - 12:34,00
25. - OSCA 1.5 - Luigi Piotti - I - 5 - 15:53,00
26. - Maserati 300S - Cesare Perdisa - I - 4 - 12:24,00
R - Ferrari TR 2.0 - Armando Cifuentes - CU - Accident
NS - Maserati 450S - Juan Manuel Fangio - RA / Pr. 1 - 1:59,2

#8 Vasco

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 21:18

Any trackmap please?
It's odd that it's such an infamous race and so little is known about it...

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2001 - 22:13

And it had such a huge field... they must have struck a good deal somehow, presumably on the way to or from South America?

#10 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 01 March 2001 - 16:46

Cuba, under Fulgencio Batista was a tourist haven. "The Las Vegas of the Caribbean." Many casinos were run by the Mafia. Castro's agents captured Fangio while he was standing in the lobby of his hotel and held him in an effort to force cancellation of the Grand Prix. Which, by the way, was only run for two years. The Castroites set Fangio free almost immediately after the start of the race.

A large purse and other benefits such as starting money, free lodging, und so weiter, made the race an event.

The circuit was through the streets of downtown Havana and along the seaside (Monaco like). The problems were driver safety and crowd control. The spectators would reach out to touch their hero, as the car sped by. They also played "chicken," with the high speed machines, jumping out of the way at the last second. I had heard that the "oil incident," was done by some spectators "to make the race exciting." Akin to the Carrera where spectators would turn or even remove road signs along the route.

The Maestro, for years afterwards, recounted how well he had been treated and that he actually had sympathy with their cause. Not the real Communist cause so much as the freedom of the Cuban people from the dictatorial Batista.

Considering that, if it hadn't been for a "benevolent," dictator Fangio would never had the chance to race in Europe.

Gil Bouffard
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#11 Rob29

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Posted 01 March 2001 - 18:41

Actually a 3rd Cuban GP was held in 1960,under the Castro regime.
Last year a revival was proposed,I was looking into flights & hotels before I heard it was cancelled.

#12 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 March 2001 - 19:17

May I echo Vasco's cry for a track-map. Someone must have one, surely?

#13 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 March 2001 - 19:19

"No I haven't. And DON'T call me Shirley!!"

Sorry guys, I couldn't wait for one of you to post that comment, I had to do it myself! :blush:

#14 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 02 March 2001 - 00:02

I forgot about the one attempt under Castro. I was in Germany learning such useful phrases as, "Wo ist die toilette?" and "noch ein bier, bitte."

All things considered, the Castro regime was kicking all the Americans and their companies out.

Gil Bouffard
http://www.norpaccrows.org

#15 quintin cloud

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Posted 02 March 2001 - 08:05

thats great guys thanks for that:)

#16 fines

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Posted 02 March 2001 - 13:54

Well Gil, apparently they taught it the wrong way round: first you drink the beer, then you need the toilet! At least here in Germany...

#17 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 02 March 2001 - 16:44

fines,

The way I sloshed Sandlerbrau Marzen bier back then, knowing the location of the toilet was vitally important. In the Sixties at Bischofsgrun, Fichtelgebirge, it was usually out in back next to the honey wagen.

When I returned to Germany (Heidelberg) in 1979, the Armed Forces Radio, Television Service (AFRTS) performed a public service for the ami's by providing a phrase of the day. "Wo ist die toilette?" was the most useful I heard them use. I was never able to insert, "There are many military vehicles on the autobahn, today." into a pick up conversation on the Hauptstrasse.

I, by the way, did not live on a compound. I lived in the lovely little town of Nussloch.

Gil Bouffard

#18 fines

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Posted 02 March 2001 - 17:34

They still do that today at AFN Radio, which I sometimes listen to (mainly because German stations have gotten that BAD!), "Wann fährt der nächste Zug nach Heidelberg, bitte?" and "Morgen ist Dienstag". Most Americans are too lazy to learn German, though, because they can get along with English pretty well. A pity, IMHO!

#19 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 02 March 2001 - 22:16

I worked with a guy who told me that he had spent ten years in Germany.

We were in Zweibrucken looking for a place to eat. Driving from the "French Kaserne" toward the city center, we passed a gasthaus within walking distance of our lodgings.

I said. "There's a place right there." The guy looked at me and said. "No, we can't go there...Too many Germans. I know that there is a Wienerwald downtown."

I said. "No, that's all right. I'll get out here." Within a couple of days I had my own stammtisch.

The guy? As far as I know, he is still looking for that Wienerwald.

Erste Kulmbacher was another one of my favorites. None of this Doktor Oettger stuff for me.

Gil Bouffard

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#20 Cayman

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Posted 03 March 2001 - 21:37

If you tell me how to paste a track map I will add to this tread.

It is of the 57GP from the programme, the 58 was on the same layout.

I also have some photo's of the hotel room that Fangio was held in as a hostage.

Just tell me how.

Cayman

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 March 2001 - 22:07

Pics need to be on a website, then you post the URL for the pic with [img] before it and [/img*] after it... but without that asterix, and without any gaps.

Go to a post with pics and hit quote and you'll see it done...

#22 Cayman

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Posted 03 March 2001 - 23:08


Sorry but I have no website that I can add the jpegs to.

If anyone wants them maybe they can be emailed.

I will also add that the 57 & 58 GP's were on the same track. 59 was cancelled due to a coup. 60 saw a new GP held on a purpose built track just outside Havana. This track held just a few races before becoming a housing estate.

I will be in Havana within the next few months, my freind was one of the photographers at the 57 58 GP and has good knowledge of the GP's, any questions please ask, in Spanish preferably as he speaks no English and details get lost in my translations !!!


Cayman

#23 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 March 2001 - 23:27

Cayman, check your private e-mails for an offer exactly like the one you mention above.

#24 Cayman

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Posted 03 March 2001 - 23:44


OK just e mailed the jpegs

the track is split over 2 pages. there are a couple of photos of the current road and 4 photo's of the Hotel Lincon.

Text on the slab reads:
HOTEL LINCON

EN LA NOCHE DEL 23 2 1958 CN ESTE
MISMO LUGAR FUE SECUESTRADO POR
UN COMANDO DEL MOVIMIENTO 25 DE JUI IO
DIRIGIDO POR ESCAR LUCERO EL CINCO
ELLE SIGNIFICO UN EFER---NVO GOLP--
BASTISTIANA Y UN IMPORTANTESCSTIMVLO
PARA LAS FVERZAS REVOLVOU----RIAS

23-2-1988


Regards

Cayman


#25 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 March 2001 - 09:21

I will tinker around with Cayman's images and try to get them up on this Forum later today.

#26 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 13:17

Did you get anywhere with this Barry?
Reason I ask is I just been to Cuba & my guide told me that the raceway was on the roads that make up the outer "bowl" of 'modern' Havana - which makes sense due to the roads - a sort of wide Monaco
However my guide also said Batista was killed in 1959 (When, of course, he died peacefully in 1974). He was anti-Castro & (Bizarrely, as he was born in 1964) very pro-Batista big time though, so he may be telling the truth otherwise, but one cannot tell as I met antoher guide who is pro-Castro & he wasn't really sure as he preferred baseball.
Nice people, but never the same story told the same way twice!

#27 Barry Boor

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 15:57

I did fiddle about with the images sent to me but IIRC Darren Galpin eventually came up with a very nice map on his track site.

#28 ray b

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 16:48

:cool:
there is a book about raceing in cuba
and later cuban run [ ralf sanchez ] miami gp's downtown
in the 80's

#29 Barry Boor

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Posted 11 February 2003 - 19:21

Although it is from 1957 not 1958, I thought members might like to see this nice little diecast of the Ferrari driven by Peter Collins in Cuba.

Posted Image

Nice, isn't it?

#30 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:49

Some great photos of Cuban GP posted here:
http://api.viglink.c..._13394068135231

#31 LittleChris

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:01

Regarding the bottom picture of Fangio meeting Batista, isn't that Roberto Mieres rather than Stirling Moss behind Fangio ?

#32 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:04

Regarding the bottom picture of Fangio meeting Batista, isn't that Roberto Mieres rather than Stirling Moss behind Fangio ?

Yes.

#33 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:59

Thanks for that link , Alan !

#34 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 16:57

Some great photos of Cuban GP posted here:
http://api.viglink.c..._13394068135231


Many of the photos on this link appear to be from 1957 too.

Vince H.