A couple of decades (or more) ago it was becoming hard for Clerks and Stewards at club races to maintain discipline when every weekend's TV either showed the "top racers" such as Schumacher deliberately shoving the opposition off or saloon car races where almost everyone drove outside the GCRs that the Clerks and Stewards were trying to operate from and all were allowed to benefit from doing so. Must be impossible now.I agree that BTCC has far too much contact and illegal blocking. I also agree that the lack of punishment is the main reason that it continues! I also believe that with this display being televised then youngsters watching it will be led to believe this is the norm!
Cheating!
Started by
Paul Rochdale
, Apr 18 2012 07:56
53 replies to this topic
#51
Allan Lupton
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Posted 20 April 2012 - 17:17
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#52
DogEarred
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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:19
Yes, lots of good comments here & I do believe it’s genuine nostalgia as these questions have gone on ever since chariot racing was invented by the Romans. (I remember the first race....)
I think we see here that cheating can be basically put into 2 categories – breaking the vehicle/design regulations & breaking the sporting regs. (e.g. bad driving, race rules etc. )
It’s interesting to note the change in reactions to these things with the passage of time & how we see things ‘nostalgically’.
Although reprehensible, some of the more clever vehicle cheats have become folklore because of their great ingenuity, whether it be 7/8 scale NASCAR vehicles, hidden fuel reservoirs, lead shot in the catch tank, acid dipping, expanding gaps in turbo casings etc. etc. At the time, everyone is outraged because it directly affects their team/livelihood. After the passage of a few years, we look back, laugh & dine out on those stories of ‘good ol’ boys. It is often forgotten also, in the great sea of sycophancy to ‘great’ people, that they may have cheated surreptitiously when the chance of being caught was low. Who knows how much undetected cheating has resulted honest competitors being deprived of their just rewards. Having said that, I’m sure the vast majority of competitors are in fact perfectly honest.
But the victims – those who play by the rules & put in vast amounts of personal training/preparation time & money, (as in other sports, notably Olympic athletics, professional cycling etc.) never really get their time in the sun back even after cheats have been disqualified.
As for poor driving/sporting, there will always be a fine line between ‘hard’ & ‘dirty’. Most of us more ‘serious’ enthusiasts enjoy watching the ‘on the limit’ stuff, not the ‘over the limit’ stuff. BTCC, NASCAR & F1 are good illustrations because they have been on TV for years & you get to see all the things that go on during a race. Whereas NASCAR (in general) uses slipstreaming, nudging & pushing for the general good, I noticed years ago that BTCC suffered from just plain dirty & stupid driving all too often. I stopped watching & have no great respect for some of those so called ‘professional’ drivers.
But don’t let’s criticise just tin top drivers. Dirty driving does & always has gone on in all formulae.
I remember my time racing in a close packed formula & saw plenty of stupidly dangerous, rather than aggressive but fair driving. One thing always crossed my mind at the time (or after the race, rather) was where are the observers? I have great respect & thanks for those who do marshalling but it seems to me that there was (& still is?) a great lack of qualified people who report these things. I have never had anything to with the ‘other side of the barrier’ side of things, so stand to be educated. I imagine it’s difficult though, to follow a sequence of events through a lap with a different observer at each corner. I guess it’s just easier to see the bad things from inside a car.
One example which makes me laugh now, but not then, was a character, famous for blocking anyway who spent a whole race weaving in front of me to stop me overtaking him. It just became a game with me weaving behind him more & more, successfully encouraging him to weave more & more in front of me. So obvious over an entire 10 laps but not even a word of warning. On the last lap I took to the grass on the pit straight towards the flag & sure enough he took to the grass in front of me! That taught me an important lesson – I should have been a quicker driver....
In club racing, I never thought it financially worthwhile to protest driving or engine cheats, unless one is challenging for a race or championship.
As in football & other sports, nothing will change until rules are allowed to be enforced by officials.
One last thing that puzzles me, concerning F1 especially is the difference in punishments over ‘grey area’ rules & blatant cheating. Why is it that people who encourage a driver to throw it at the wall in order to help the team win or pass on/steal IP right protected material & cause near collapse of a team, are allowed to show their faces again in the sport, whereas if you interpret a rule cleverly because they are badly written, such as the BAR fuel system, a few years ago, a team gets banned.
Award yourself a cup of tea & a biscuit if you are still awake after reading this. Or indeed, something stronger if it has bored you too much...
Regards
Honest DogEarred
I think we see here that cheating can be basically put into 2 categories – breaking the vehicle/design regulations & breaking the sporting regs. (e.g. bad driving, race rules etc. )
It’s interesting to note the change in reactions to these things with the passage of time & how we see things ‘nostalgically’.
Although reprehensible, some of the more clever vehicle cheats have become folklore because of their great ingenuity, whether it be 7/8 scale NASCAR vehicles, hidden fuel reservoirs, lead shot in the catch tank, acid dipping, expanding gaps in turbo casings etc. etc. At the time, everyone is outraged because it directly affects their team/livelihood. After the passage of a few years, we look back, laugh & dine out on those stories of ‘good ol’ boys. It is often forgotten also, in the great sea of sycophancy to ‘great’ people, that they may have cheated surreptitiously when the chance of being caught was low. Who knows how much undetected cheating has resulted honest competitors being deprived of their just rewards. Having said that, I’m sure the vast majority of competitors are in fact perfectly honest.
But the victims – those who play by the rules & put in vast amounts of personal training/preparation time & money, (as in other sports, notably Olympic athletics, professional cycling etc.) never really get their time in the sun back even after cheats have been disqualified.
As for poor driving/sporting, there will always be a fine line between ‘hard’ & ‘dirty’. Most of us more ‘serious’ enthusiasts enjoy watching the ‘on the limit’ stuff, not the ‘over the limit’ stuff. BTCC, NASCAR & F1 are good illustrations because they have been on TV for years & you get to see all the things that go on during a race. Whereas NASCAR (in general) uses slipstreaming, nudging & pushing for the general good, I noticed years ago that BTCC suffered from just plain dirty & stupid driving all too often. I stopped watching & have no great respect for some of those so called ‘professional’ drivers.
But don’t let’s criticise just tin top drivers. Dirty driving does & always has gone on in all formulae.
I remember my time racing in a close packed formula & saw plenty of stupidly dangerous, rather than aggressive but fair driving. One thing always crossed my mind at the time (or after the race, rather) was where are the observers? I have great respect & thanks for those who do marshalling but it seems to me that there was (& still is?) a great lack of qualified people who report these things. I have never had anything to with the ‘other side of the barrier’ side of things, so stand to be educated. I imagine it’s difficult though, to follow a sequence of events through a lap with a different observer at each corner. I guess it’s just easier to see the bad things from inside a car.
One example which makes me laugh now, but not then, was a character, famous for blocking anyway who spent a whole race weaving in front of me to stop me overtaking him. It just became a game with me weaving behind him more & more, successfully encouraging him to weave more & more in front of me. So obvious over an entire 10 laps but not even a word of warning. On the last lap I took to the grass on the pit straight towards the flag & sure enough he took to the grass in front of me! That taught me an important lesson – I should have been a quicker driver....
In club racing, I never thought it financially worthwhile to protest driving or engine cheats, unless one is challenging for a race or championship.
As in football & other sports, nothing will change until rules are allowed to be enforced by officials.
One last thing that puzzles me, concerning F1 especially is the difference in punishments over ‘grey area’ rules & blatant cheating. Why is it that people who encourage a driver to throw it at the wall in order to help the team win or pass on/steal IP right protected material & cause near collapse of a team, are allowed to show their faces again in the sport, whereas if you interpret a rule cleverly because they are badly written, such as the BAR fuel system, a few years ago, a team gets banned.
Award yourself a cup of tea & a biscuit if you are still awake after reading this. Or indeed, something stronger if it has bored you too much...
Regards
Honest DogEarred
#53
Tony Matthews
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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:33
I'm still awake, and far from bored! Good post. As far as unequal punishment is concerened, there is usually a hidden agenda, in my opinion. Not all teams are treated equally, and personal animosity has something to do with it, as does the percieved importance of a team or driver.
#54
DogEarred
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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:13
I'm still awake, and far from bored! Good post. As far as unequal punishment is concerened, there is usually a hidden agenda, in my opinion. Not all teams are treated equally, and personal animosity has something to do with it, as does the percieved importance of a team or driver.
You are correct indeed, Sir.
I'm thankfull we have a number of serious journalists who look deep beyond the candyfloss that eminates from the posteriors of most F1 teams' Press Officers & other Very Important Team Personel.
I suggest an NF topic headed 'Looking forward to the day when all teams break away from Bernie & the FIA'. (I call that negative nostalgia - so it should be allowed, I argue)
