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McLaren MP4-27 [split]


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#14801 BillBald

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 19:34

On the surface, it makes no good sense. LH implied he is having problems with the tyres and would need use the testing opportunity to get better with them. He also went on to say that he would prefer to do this himself rather than using second information from some test drivers but strangely the team says no. The only reason given is "we don't need to test". It is obvious to everyone that they are having issues with those tyres.

If you look at those that supports the team's position, it is no coincidence they are mostly if not all are JB fans.

There is something smelling in the Mclaren camp and if you are LH, the odour is ugly. Having said that, it is difficult to believe - despite appearances - that the team would want to lose points just to spite LH. Time will tell, but so far Mclaren track side operations which is the window to their planning and decision processes making can be flatteringly described as poor.

LH went through some personal difficult times last year and he appears to have gotten on top of that. He now has to get on top of an apparently hostile team and I am sure he will. They can't kill his talent. All he has to do is keep his head down and win even if he has to do it the hard way, which I am sure he will and then leave the team. That is my opinion but I am sure his management and people around him aren't idiots and will do the right thing...


I don't think anyone here is completely sure that the team is doing the right thing, but it's only the Lewis fans who seem to think that Lewis is being put at a disadvantage by neither of them doing the testing.

At Bahrain, Jenson struggled with tyres at least as much as Lewis.

If it really was better for the race drivers to do the test, don't you think that they could arrange it, even if it meant cancelling or postponing a personal appearance by Jenson?



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#14802 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 20:02

Very interesting spot from Owen.C93 on the MP4-27.

Scarbs: It's an adjuster for the brake duct opening around the disc. This sends more heat to the wheel and hence into the tyre. The team use it to alter rear tyre temp over the weekend , presumably in the race too!

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#14803 femi

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 20:12

I don't think anyone here is completely sure that the team is doing the right thing, but it's only the Lewis fans who seem to think that Lewis is being put at a disadvantage by neither of them doing the testing.

At Bahrain, Jenson struggled with tyres at least as much as Lewis.

If it really was better for the race drivers to do the test, don't you think that they could arrange it, even if it meant cancelling or postponing a personal appearance by Jenson?


I had that covered in my comment. There are 4 things I have taken into consideration:

1, The team had announced they didn't need that test hence the test drivers
2, LH wanted it and he gave the reason why and that was after the team's announcement
3, It is note worthy that JB said he saw no reason for the test but there is no word still from LH that he agrees with that position.
4, It is obvious that other teams do not share Mclaren's stance

Like I wrote in my comment, time will tell but experience with Mclarens decisions during races does not inspire confidence in their competence.

#14804 as65p

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 21:45

But Hamilton admitted following his eighth place at Sakhir that he might want the track time. “It might change,” he said. “I need to get back in the car. We need to figure out why the tyres are going off.

“If there are other things to test or ways to figure out I will be the one to do it, not let someone else do it.”


How does the above read to you?


Given that ATM it doesn't look as if LH will drive at the test, it reads like a bigmouth being put in his place. Once again. :D

Actually that's one if two things I love about Hamilton, there is always some kind of fuss going on around him, making for good entertainment. No way he would just quietly work away at making the most of the already pretty handy car McLaren started the season with, he just has to cause a stir, one way or the other.

#14805 senna da silva

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 21:58

No way he would just quietly work away at making the most of the already pretty handy car McLaren started the season with, he just has to cause a stir, one way or the other.


He's done everything he can to make the most of the car and McLaren has f#cked it up everyway they can!

#14806 silversurf3r

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 22:13

Very interesting spot from Owen.C93 on the MP4-27.

Scarbs: It's an adjuster for the brake duct opening around the disc. This sends more heat to the wheel and hence into the tyre. The team use it to alter rear tyre temp over the weekend , presumably in the race too!

Posted Image
Original High-Res


Ye looks like a great spot indeed. Scarbs mentioned this was first used in China. Do you think it's possible Mclaren may be having teething problems with the new system and this might be the cause of the suggested rear tyre deg issues? If so, hopefully the team can get a handle on it during the next three days. Seems like a clever innovation.

Edited by silversurf3r, 30 April 2012 - 22:16.


#14807 alframsey

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 22:17

Deny it if you must, it won't change the facts. Hamilton (not me! :D ) made big announcements which ultimately came to nothing. Way to look silly, I'd say. (*)


(*) I'm ready to eat humble pie should he drive at Mugello. No problem.

Yeah he did make an announcement, he said “It might change". Might, not will, you just love to create drama around everything LH does or says. Example, when Lewis said he'd gee-up the bloke that made a mistake during one of his pitstops you said;

"A bit of both... but the emphasis on not knowing the name someone on his pit crew during the races. 'Bizzare' is exactly the term I would use.

Also, if I was that guy and my name was Jeff, I would be okay with LH saying "Jeff f*ckep up today, sh*t happens, will talk to him later." But if I was referred to as some nameless drone who needs the arm of his millionaire star driver round his should to stop crying... I would feel like punching him. But that might be just me, and a reason why I'm in nobodies pit crew...."

I doubt you'd have said this if it was another driver, creating drama where the is none.

#14808 as65p

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 22:37

Yeah he did make an announcement, he said “It might change". Might, not will, you just love to create drama around everything LH does or says.


Oh yeah, nobody but me talked about during the last days, sure. :drunk: Of course the "it might change" sounds not so bad, yet this part I highlighted before: "I will be the one to do it, not let someone else do it."... just sounds like he way overestimates his powers. Silly, as I said already.

Example, when Lewis said he'd gee-up the bloke that made a mistake during one of his pitstops you said;

"A bit of both... but the emphasis on not knowing the name someone on his pit crew during the races. 'Bizzare' is exactly the term I would use.

Also, if I was that guy and my name was Jeff, I would be okay with LH saying "Jeff f*ckep up today, sh*t happens, will talk to him later." But if I was referred to as some nameless drone who needs the arm of his millionaire star driver round his should to stop crying... I would feel like punching him. But that might be just me, and a reason why I'm in nobodies pit crew...."

I doubt you'd have said this if it was another driver, creating drama where the is none.


So what? You could discuss that with me any time, preferably quoting properly, and taking into account that I was asked by a Hamilton supporter (admittedly one of the less excitable kind, so he might not count in your book), what I thought about it.

#14809 jrg19

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:50

McLaren tweeting about the demo run in Budapest more than the test that is going on.

#14810 jrg19

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:57

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Oliver in the car, can't see anything new or different on the car.

#14811 Bartel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:59

Reverted back to the PRE China wing.

#14812 jrg19

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:11

http://www.kezdjelvalamiujat.hu/

If anyone wants to watch Jensons demo run, 12.30 uk time.

#14813 maverick69

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:15

The adjustable brake ducts sound like a cunning, yet simple idea :up:

Maybe they're also a function of not wanting to repeat the debacle with the duct tape during that pitstop in Sepang.

Although it's raining in Mugello..... #hamiltonsfault

#14814 Owen

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:17

McLaren tweeting about the demo run in Budapest more than the test that is going on.

The demo run is all about sponsorship and raising profile for partners, the test is the usual confidential and competitive sporting F1 behaviour.


#14815 Owen

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:18

Oliver in the car, can't see anything new or different on the car.

Please don't bin it Oliver. :|

#14816 femi

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:21

Please don't bin it Oliver. :|


I hope not, I suspect he will be the 2nd race driver next season.

#14817 jrg19

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:23

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Using the 26 for the demo run, i thought parts had to be two seasons old for demos?

#14818 Fastcake

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:29

Sure it's not the 25? Can't tell under that sheet.

#14819 Bartel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:30

McLaren were running fully fledged 26 Abu Dhabi spec for the speed comparison in Melbourne, throttle blowing and all, but not the the full extent it could of course.

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#14820 Bartel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:30

Sure it's not the 25? Can't tell under that sheet.

Defs 26, loks at the profile of the sidepods. Out side where Vodafone is very squared off, and you can see the U pod anyway.

#14821 Markn93

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:00

Finally a timed lap! :clap:

#14822 ElDictatore

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:28

Couldn't it just be, that they are letting Turvey and Paffet drive for this test to have better comparable data to the young driver test in Silverstone this year?

#14823 GlenP

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:37

Couldn't it just be, that they are letting Turvey and Paffet drive for this test to have better comparable data to the young driver test in Silverstone this year?

Or any one of a number of very good reasons that we couldn't know about. Turvey and Paffet may have been working flat out on the simulator on very specific routines for example, which they will then replicate and compare. Or maybe the testing work is exceptionally repetitive and precise in a way that a race driver isn't used to working. Or whatever - I could think of loads of genuine reasons for McLaren to stick to their methods.

But oh no - the crazies always have to turn it into either a competence or conspiracy issue.

#14824 Clatter

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:47

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Using the 26 for the demo run, i thought parts had to be two seasons old for demos?


I thought the 2 year rule was for driver testing and demo's and filming can use the current car, but no new parts that have not been raced.

#14825 Owen

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:44

Pretty cool roadshow. Hope they take it elsewhere.
http://www.facebook....4...7680&type=1

#14826 hunnylander

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:34

Pretty cool roadshow. Hope they take it elsewhere.
http://www.facebook....4...7680&type=1

Live here: http://www.kezdjelvalamiujat.hu/

Jenson just did his first run.

#14827 engel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:14

Live here: http://www.kezdjelvalamiujat.hu/

Jenson just did his first run.


about to do another run (I think)

#14828 Owen

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:19

Live here: http://www.kezdjelvalamiujat.hu/

Jenson just did his first run.

:up: thanks hunnylander

#14829 MP422

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 16:21

I hope not, I suspect he will be the 2nd race driver next season.

Yea right :rotfl:

#14830 BinaryDad

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 19:11

Or any one of a number of very good reasons that we couldn't know about. Turvey and Paffet may have been working flat out on the simulator on very specific routines for example, which they will then replicate and compare. Or maybe the testing work is exceptionally repetitive and precise in a way that a race driver isn't used to working. Or whatever - I could think of loads of genuine reasons for McLaren to stick to their methods.

But oh no - the crazies always have to turn it into either a competence or conspiracy issue.


Way to go and just get everybody to ignore any reasoned argument that you make, ever again.

Sure, there could be any number of reasons for not allowing Lewis to test. But the test drivers aren't some magical beast that are uber precise, and can hit any lap time given to them and no other driver can come close...if they were, they would have an actual F1 drive. Doesn't Lewis also have a reputation for being able to hit a given lap time, time after time?

Apparently, this isn't a major test if we are to believe McLaren. So if that's the case, why not let Lewis run at least one day, if he wants to put the time in?

#14831 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 19:11

I have just returned from the demo in Budapest. It was really amazing and Jens is a really nice and friendly guy. If there is any interest, I can upload some pictures.

#14832 miniq

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 20:36

I have just returned from the demo in Budapest. It was really amazing and Jens is a really nice and friendly guy. If there is any interest, I can upload some pictures.


Fernando is faster THAN YOU!

I'm sure we will all be greatfull for pictures. As long as they are of relevance (MP4-27) and arn't terrible quality.



#14833 GlenP

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 20:49

Way to go and just get everybody to ignore any reasoned argument that you make, ever again.

Sure, there could be any number of reasons for not allowing Lewis to test. But the test drivers aren't some magical beast that are uber precise, and can hit any lap time given to them and no other driver can come close...if they were, they would have an actual F1 drive. Doesn't Lewis also have a reputation for being able to hit a given lap time, time after time?

Apparently, this isn't a major test if we are to believe McLaren. So if that's the case, why not let Lewis run at least one day, if he wants to put the time in?

Way to not even READ what I wrote. I said there could be many many reasons that you have no clue about. I gave two possible examples. I don't know the actual reason, but I can think of fifty more plausible ones than a conspiracy against Hamilton or incompetence within McLaren.

#14834 BinaryDad

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 22:08

Way to not even READ what I wrote. I said there could be many many reasons that you have no clue about. I gave two possible examples. I don't know the actual reason, but I can think of fifty more plausible ones than a conspiracy against Hamilton or incompetence within McLaren.



Oh I read what you wrote just fine. You said;

But oh no - the crazies always have to turn it into either a competence or conspiracy issue.


So anybody who DARES to disagree with you is a crazy, eh? I've seen groups of people who have made amazingly great calls in business, earning my employer BILLIONS in post-tax profits succumb to competence issues. What makes you such an authority that enables you to call anybody who thinks this might be a competence issue with Mclaren, crazy?

I can think of a tonne of reasons why McLaren would deny Lewis the test this week too....doesn't mean that it's the right call or that it's not incompetent. Of course, I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong but atleast I'm questioning things, instead of disregarding them straight off because I believe I am completely in the right.

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it



#14835 techspeed

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 22:10

Pretty cool roadshow. Hope they take it elsewhere.
http://www.facebook....4...7680&type=1

They do, went to it last year in Manchester. :cool:
http://www.vodafone....cid=rdr=3893-01


#14836 skid solo

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:44

He's done everything he can to make the most of the car and McLaren has f#cked it up everyway they can!


:up:

#14837 jrg19

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:38

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http://img3.auto-mot...46fa-591177.jpg

High res of the measuring devise on the diffuser: http://f1zoom.co.cc/...u...g=77&full=1


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Measuring something on one side of the nose?

Edited by jrg19, 02 May 2012 - 09:58.


#14838 Owen

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:16

These measuring devices just get stranger and stranger...

#14839 silversurf3r

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:21

[quote name='jrg19' date='May 2 2012, 10:38' post='5695560']
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...46fa-591177.jpg

Any ideas what the wiring is for running up the RW endplate? Could they be testing for new RW? Possible DDRS solution?

Edit: i'm told it's possibly a pressure sensor as run on the floor of the car.

Edited by silversurf3r, 02 May 2012 - 10:27.


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#14840 jrg19

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:31

Posted Image

Might be part of the sensor package on the front wing but looks thicker to me, possibly where a tube could end?

#14841 enrm6

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:37

Is it me or does the curvature (see the reflection) on that rear wing support suggest it is fatter than normal e.g. could be hollow as a precursor to DDRS? And hence why they need to evaluate pressure at that point due to larger cross section of the uprights?

Also, loads of sensors all over the front wing. Still evaluating where the front flow is going.

#14842 Zava

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:42

Is it me or does the curvature (see the reflection) on that rear wing support suggest it is fatter than normal e.g. could be hollow as a precursor to DDRS? And hence why they need to evaluate pressure at that point due to larger cross section of the uprights?

Also, loads of sensors all over the front wing. Still evaluating where the front flow is going.

on the front view (with the green circle on the picture) the RWEP doesn't look unusually thick.

#14843 silversurf3r

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:42

Is it me or does the curvature (see the reflection) on that rear wing support suggest it is fatter than normal e.g. could be hollow as a precursor to DDRS? And hence why they need to evaluate pressure at that point due to larger cross section of the uprights?

Also, loads of sensors all over the front wing. Still evaluating where the front flow is going.


It does appear fatter to me, but hard to tell from just one photo. They must be at least evaluating the possibilities for DDRS surely.

#14844 Dunder

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:43

Ye looks like a great spot indeed. Scarbs mentioned this was first used in China. Do you think it's possible Mclaren may be having teething problems with the new system and this might be the cause of the suggested rear tyre deg issues? If so, hopefully the team can get a handle on it during the next three days. Seems like a clever innovation.


I don't think so.

The issues in Bahrain were apparent throughout Friday. Aside from that, I think any benefits of this would be in qualifying sessions where getting tyres up to temperature is an issue.

Running oversized brake ducts for the purpose of having some control over heat radiated to the tyres during a race is a very interesting given the temperature sensitivity of this year's Pirellis but a) could only make a very marginal in terms of effect b) is not without cost (added drag).


#14845 GlenP

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:48

Presumably brake bias front to back and KERS harvesting settings also have an effect on rear tyre temp. And that's not going into suspension geometry and aerodynamics. Complicated, tricky stuff.

#14846 jrg19

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:14

Oliver on testing.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99292

#14847 Owen

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:22

Oliver on testing.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99292

seems pretty positive. :up:

#14848 Owen

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:30

Programme (Day 1)
Oliver began the week’s programme with a number of short, data-collection runs on slicks. The heavy rain at lunchtime meant that the scheduled driver changeover to Gary was less productive: the wet weather, coupled with circuit closures due to the low visibility, rendered meaningful running pointless. As a result, the team opted to end the day early and start preparations for tomorrow, when clearer weather is anticipated.
http://www.mclaren.c...ay-1-1-may-2012

#14849 silversurf3r

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 13:42

Underneath us McLaren has done two practice pitstTops, both times focussing on just one wheel - the back left which proved Lewis Hamilton's bane in Bahrain.


Glad to hear it!


#14850 femi

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 13:43

Oliver on testing.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99292



Interesting, here is another perspective