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Rosberg chopping both Hamilton and Alonso


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#151 jj2728

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:27

They should ban Nico (as kind as he might be) for 1 race for these 2 dangerous destroying blocks or paint his hair pink, that would be more of a punishment for him.

Oh wait that is no punishment for him either, he loves pink. damm.


blah...blah....blah....blah...blah....blahblah.....
Hamilton fanboys really have their knickers in a twist over this....

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#152 Fudce

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:28

Your ID name explains it all. :p This has nothing to do with defense driving, but more of destroying driving, as Alonso said when driving defencing you need to leave a small space and not the whole with of the track, other cars cannot vanish in the air.

Technically the rules don't say that you have to leave space when defending, only when returning to the racing line. Rosberg was guilty of crowding though. (I don't think he forced them off the road, as I don't think Hamilton was along side when he went off - we didn't get a clear view from Hamilton's car as his onboard was facing backwards)

So Rosberg guilty on both accounts of crowding, but not excessive defending or forcing a car off the road. - My judgment is a postrace drivethrough (+20s)

Hamilton overtook outside the limits. Under most circumstances, driving off the track on a straight isn't an advantage, but in this instance he drove around another car. He did so outside of the limits. Overtaking is an advantage. He gained an advantage. He did so whilst driving outside the track limits. He gained that advantage driving outside the track limits. Yes, he was given very little choice but he could have chose to give the move up and not gain advantage. Or he could have given the place back. He didn't. Given the circumstances, I'd give reprimand but no timepenalty.

Lewis was guilty, but he had little choice.


Now I should point out that I like to view myself as quite a fence-sitter when it comes to drivers. I don't really have favourites, and don't support a team. I am a fan of Formula One and racing, not of a specific driver or team. Obviously I'm happy when an underdog does well, but I'm not a hater. This is my honest opinion on the matter.

#153 jamiegc

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:28

Just for anyone interested, there was a nearly identical incident in the GP2 yesterday with Gutierrez being forced off the track by Nasr but still passing him. No further action was taken.

Not pointing it out as precedent, just informing anyone interesting.

#154 HAM

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:29

Yellow!


Lol, yeah but that doesn't punish him either as it is his helmet color (chrome and green also not), maybe red will do.

#155 loki0420

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:30

He absolutely deserves a penalty. You can't defend your position like that. I think about -5(10) in Barca.

#156 dau

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:33

So i just saw a short onboard from Alonso and he was behind Rosberg the whole time. He could've easily gone to the left side, but he tried get on the inside for the next corner. Can't be long before some videos appear on Youtube...

#157 ed24f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:34

Just for anyone interested, there was a nearly identical incident in the GP2 yesterday with Gutierrez being forced off the track by Nasr but still passing him. No further action was taken.

Not pointing it out as precedent, just informing anyone interesting.


I assume the stewards are different for GP2 though? I've never actually thought about it before

#158 Tarzaan

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:34

Iirc, Rubens was alongside Schumacher who then started to push him to the barrier. Rosberg started his move right on the exit of the corner and then drove in a straight line and i'm not sure Lewis or Alonso were already alongside. Like i said, i need to see that again, onboard or heli angle would be great.


That's a lie. Rubens was behind far behind MS when he start to move right, and Schumi leve more than a car width for RB


#159 HAM

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:36

Technically the rules don't say that you have to leave space when defending, only when returning to the racing line. Rosberg was guilty of crowding though. (I don't think he forced them off the road, as I don't think Hamilton was along side when he went off - we didn't get a clear view from Hamilton's car as his onboard was facing backwards)

So Rosberg guilty on both accounts of crowding, but not excessive defending or forcing a car off the road. - My judgment is a postrace drivethrough (+20s)

Hamilton overtook outside the limits. Under most circumstances, driving off the track on a straight isn't an advantage, but in this instance he drove around another car. He did so outside of the limits. Overtaking is an advantage. He gained an advantage. He did so whilst driving outside the track limits. He gained that advantage driving outside the track limits. Yes, he was given very little choice but he could have chose to give the move up and not gain advantage. Or he could have given the place back. He didn't. Given the circumstances, I'd give reprimand but no timepenalty.

Lewis was guilty, but he had little choice.


Now I should point out that I like to view myself as quite a fence-sitter when it comes to drivers. I don't really have favourites, and don't support a team. I am a fan of Formula One and racing, not of a specific driver or team. Obviously I'm happy when an underdog does well, but I'm not a hater. This is my honest opinion on the matter.


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Edited by HAM, 22 April 2012 - 15:37.


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#160 Suzy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:36

I assume the stewards are different for GP2 though? I've never actually thought about it before


Not that I am aware of. As far as I know it's the same Stewards for F1 and for GP2.

#161 Aieljose

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:37

Year: 2007
Track: Fuji
Drivers: Kubica/Massa


enough said! :drunk:

And massa should have gotten a penalty. The fact that the stewards make a bad ruling doesn't make overtaking off track any less illegal.

#162 dau

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:37

That's a lie. Rubens was behind far behind MS when he start to move right, and Schumi leve more than a car width for RB

Iirc<-

#163 Dunder

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:37

That's a lie. Rubens was behind far behind MS when he start to move right, and Schumi leve more than a car width for RB


When there was no longer a car's width between Schumacher and the edge of the track, Barrichello was half-way alongside.
When he started to move right is irrelevant.


#164 britishtrident

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:38

Back in the old Mosley days Hamilton would get a major penalty for the Nico-Hamilton incident and Hamilton would be penalised for the Nico-Alonso incident.

#165 NoDivergence

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:39

Back in the old Mosley days Hamilton would get a major penalty for the Nico-Hamilton incident and Hamilton would be penalised for the Nico-Alonso incident.


LOOOOOOOOOOOOL, sad but completely true...

#166 LH08WDC

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:40

Any videos of either incident on YouTube?

#167 fabr68

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:41

Back in the old Mosley days Hamilton would get a major penalty for the Nico-Hamilton incident and Hamilton would be penalised for the Nico-Alonso incident.


Well, that is technically still possible if both Hamilton and Rosberg get a time penalty that makes them lose their spots into the zero-point zone.

#168 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:42

Yes there was. I didn't notice it at first but there was a camera angle looking back over Lewis' right rear and he was seriously close to some serious damage.


Immediate means without delay. As in as soon as you leave the track you are in the wall. Did Lewis and Alonso leave the track? Yes. Did they hit the wall? No. Therefore there was no immediate wall.

Not excusing Rosberg in any way.

#169 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:43

Been over two hours since the race ended--still no announcement?

#170 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:44

Been over two hours since the race ended--still no announcement?


Well we do know which team Nico drivers for.

#171 Boxerevo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:45

Can't find a replay mates,pm please.

#172 Jolkins

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:50

If it had been Schumacher this would have been a fun 100-page thread.

But Britney is such a nice guy.

+1

The hate would be unbearable!

#173 ed24f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:52

If Rosberg does get penalised, then Perez was pretty lucky to escape in China.

#174 Ellios

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:52

Can't find a replay mates,pm please.


sent


#175 HAM

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:52

Can't find a replay mates,pm please.


Patience my friend, when I saw the overtake in dust, I thought > Yes, this is a nice new banner + nice wallpaper if a photographer took a picture of it, very nice with smoke chrome visor in the dust. :smoking:

Edited by HAM, 22 April 2012 - 15:53.


#176 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:53

A bit too much too hardcore but nothing to cry for. That was the only racing action all afternoon so can't complain.


#177 HAM

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:54

A bit too much too hardcore but nothing to cry for. That was the only racing action all afternoon so can't complain.


I thought the DaResta overtake (taking 2 cars at once) was pretty nice as well!

Edited by HAM, 22 April 2012 - 15:54.


#178 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:57

Patience my friend, when I saw the overtake in dust, I thought > Yes, this is a nice new banner + nice wallpaper if a photographer took a picture of it, very nice with smoke chrome visor in the dust. :smoking:


Hope there is a photo of it will be a beauty!

#179 Dunder

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:59

If Rosberg does get penalised, then Perez was pretty lucky to escape in China.


From what perspective? That was an abrupt move too but he left more than a car's width at the inside edge of the track.


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#180 Lokt

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:59

sent


Could you message that one to me aswell ;)?


#181 LH08WDC

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:00

sent


Could someone PM me one as well please?

#182 rog

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:02

Rosberg was a car length in front, I see nothing wrong here. He drove a wide line to make it as difficult as possible for Alonso. This is racing.

#183 ed24f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:03

From what perspective? That was an abrupt move too but he left more than a car's width at the inside edge of the track.


Well in terms of the rapid move to squeeze out Kamui. Obviously moving fast to block can be just as dangerous as not leaving any room.

Obviously Rosberg's was worse though.

#184 discover23

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:03

sent

mee too please. thanks.

#185 ghost

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:05

Sorry, i dont get how one can see these moves fair :(
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

#186 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:05

A bit too much too hardcore but nothing to cry for.

I have to admit this is pretty much my view but I'm curious as to the official outcome. No harm, no foul.

#187 fabr68

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:07

After the Alonso incident, Rosberg radioed his team and said: "Oops, I did it again"


#188 NoDivergence

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:09

After the Alonso incident, Rosberg radioed his team and said: "Oops, I did it again"


Or maybe he was singer lyrics to Toxic. Maybe "hit me baby one more time"

#189 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:14

Still nothing?

#190 Henrik B

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:16

On Alonso, on that replay, it looks like Alonso is behind when Rosberg chooses to go to the right side of the track, as is his right. That Alonso choose to drive even further to the right is not Rosbergs concern.

I haven't seen a decent replay on the Hamilton move though. IF Rosberg moves first and is ahead when going to the edge, like on Alonso, he doesn't force Lewis off track and should get no penalty.

It all depends on the timing. Schumacher was too late on Barrichello and got rightfully punished for it. When the driver behind is alongside, evne a little bit, he can't choose side anymore without backing out. It looked to me like Lewis chose to go off while still having the option to pass on the left.

#191 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:19

Alonso screamed the the rule over the radio, I was surprised Rosberg didn't get a drive-through on Hamilton initially, so to see him do the same thing to Alonso and have the thing drag on for so long is very surprising to me..

#192 Markn93

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:19

Here are the incidents, http://www.bbc.co.uk..._medium=twitter

#193 Skinnyguy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:21



I wrote my veredict too soon.

Rosberg moves too late, but it looks Lewis has time to accept the outside for turn 4 without even lifting. I´d like to watch onboard, but looks like Nico will get away with it.

#194 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:23

I thought the DaResta overtake (taking 2 cars at once) was pretty nice as well!

Yes,that was ballsy as well.

#195 4MEN

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:24

Firstly, the run-offs in Bahrain are not sand, they are painted concrete.

I'd say both Hamilton and Rosberg were probably guilty. Regardless of what Rosberg did, you can't pass someone off the track. Rosberg deserves a harsher penalty though, I'd say a 25 second penalty for Rosberg and a reprimand for Lewis.




Vettel's was on grass, Hamilton was on concrete, a big difference I think...

:up:

I think the key is to know if Alonso and Hamilton were alongside when Rosberg moved. If that's the case he pushed them out of the track, so penalty. If not, Hamilton should have give up, so penalty for overtaking outside the track. The frontal camera doesn't help to calculate those distances and can be misleading.

#196 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:26

The problem with the next-race penalties is you could conceivably drive like an idiot to hold on to a win, and take the grid penalty next time out. The disincentive to break the rules isn't high enough.

#197 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:30

The problem with the next-race penalties is you could conceivably drive like an idiot to hold on to a win, and take the grid penalty next time out. The disincentive to break the rules isn't high enough.


I guess as it's 2 incidents, had Rosberg won (or been on the podium or whatever), they could give 2 penalties. 1 being a DQ from that race if it's deemed unacceptable, and a 2nd penalty (for doing it twice, not strictly because it was worse than the other 1) being a race suspension. Not saying that's what they'll do or that that's what they should do, just throwing a potential decision out there.

#198 lokiman

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:31


Just rewatched the Rosberg/Hamilton incident several times on the BBC replay. He didn't squeeze Hamilton, because Hamilton was behind him right up to the point when Hamilton went to overtake off-track. At no point was Hamilton even alongside him until Hamilton made the move. Rosberg cut over to the extreme right-hand side of the track and Hamilton - behind him - followed him the whole way. Hamilton then kept moving to the right (going off-track) and passed.

Edited by lokiman, 22 April 2012 - 16:33.


#199 4MEN

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:31

It wasn't an advantage to go off track on a straight. In fact it was a DISADVANTAGE


False. If a wall instead of painted concrete Lewis would have lift off, and he didn't.

Back in the old Mosley days Hamilton would get a major penalty for the Nico-Hamilton incident and Hamilton would be penalised for the Nico-Alonso incident.


Oh poor Hamilton. Do you remember the crane gate?

Edited by 4MEN, 22 April 2012 - 16:35.


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#200 Skinnyguy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:34

He might get away with it.

Anyway, defending with the other guy under your gearbox might not be ilegal, but it´s too dangerous and annoying. He should have made clear before he wanted the inside.