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Rosberg chopping both Hamilton and Alonso


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#251 NoDivergence

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:10

after watching this again.. I can see that it was both Alonso and Lewis decision to stick right behind Rosberg as if they were glued together. They had the choice to get out of the tow and by that time Roseberg could not have turn left to block since he is only allowed one move..


They both thought he'd leave 1 car length, it's understandable. Rosberg not letting Hamilton back onto the track, however, is not

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#252 johnmhinds

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:11

after watching this again.. I can see that it was both Alonso and Lewis decision to stick right behind Rosberg as if they were glued together. They had the choice to get out of the tow and by that time Roseberg could not have turn left to block since he is only allowed one move..


Rosberg is supposed to give them space if they are along side him though.

You can't keep turning towards a driver until there is no space left on the track for them.

#253 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:11

:rotfl:

Edit: Name the MANY situations.

Just so you can try and argue and justify each one? I'd rather not get into that. I'll just say that I dont think Lewis is persecuted like some people think he is. He's no doubt been a victim of the FIA's inconsistency in the past, but he's also benefitted from their inconsistency as well. He's not the only driver we could say this about, either. If Lewis really was persecuted, the FIA had a perfectly legal way to penalize him today for passing off-the-track. It would be unfair in light of the situation, but I remember Alonso passing Kubica off-track after getting pushed off earned himself a penalty in Silverstone 2010.

#254 malibu

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:13

that's the right decision. No action should be taken. i saw the actions on tv, of course it's dangerous but you are in F1. And dangerous doesn't mean contrary to rules. He just defended his line as both hamilton and alonso were behind him
I understand some support their drivers but even Alonso said he had no problem with rosberg incident as he was cool with stewards judgement.
End of the story

#255 canaus

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:13

After the Alonso incident, Rosberg radioed his team and said: "Oops, I did it again"


:rotfl: :rotfl: Britney...

#256 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:14

The stewards looked into the matter and decided that because Rosberg had moved to the right to defend his position in a 'constant and continuous straight line manner' and because Hamilton was not alongside Rosberg as he began that move that the German did nothing wrong.

The stewards added: "Had a significant portion of Car 4 (Hamilton) been alongside that of Car 8 (Rosberg) whilst Car 4 still remained within the confines of the track, then the actions of Car 8 may not be considered legitimate."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99102

#257 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:15

Well, that's new.

#258 slmk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:15

Just so you can try and argue and justify each one? I'd rather not get into that. I'll just say that I dont think Lewis is persecuted like some people think he is. He's no doubt been a victim of the FIA's inconsistency in the past, but he's also benefitted from their inconsistency as well. He's not the only driver we could say this about, either. If Lewis really was persecuted, the FIA had a perfectly legal way to penalize him today for passing off-the-track. It would be unfair in light of the situation, but I remember Alonso passing Kubica off-track after getting pushed off earned himself a penalty in Silverstone 2010.


Alonso cut a corner and gained an advantage. Hamilton was on a straight. Major difference.

#259 P123

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:16

He's fortunate to get away with that.

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#260 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:16

that's the right decision. No action should be taken. i saw the actions on tv, of course it's dangerous but you are in F1. And dangerous doesn't mean contrary to rules. He just defended his line as both hamilton and alonso were behind him
I understand some support their drivers but even Alonso said he had no problem with rosberg incident as he was cool with stewards judgement.
End of the story

Alonso was behind so it was just defending with him, but Lewis was alongside. Once a driver is in that position, you absolutely cannot just run over to the inside and push them off the road. Thats not defending anymore, its just desperation and it could be very dangerous if it happens in the wrong place.

#261 Rikhart

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:16

There were weeks of drama after shumacher squeezed barrichelo, with a much slower, and thus predictable and less dangerous, move. I bet this dangerous fool rosberg and his lunacy will be forgotten by tomorrow... But that was crazy driving, cant chop other drivers like that, clearly deserved a penalty.

#262 discover23

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:17

They both thought he'd leave 1 car length, it's understandable. Rosberg not letting Hamilton back onto the track, however, is not

I think that is not clean driving.. something that Shumi would do.. but stewards sometimes do not penalize this .. I seen it before. Alonso and Lewis have all the right to be pissed but I am not sure if this breaks the rules.. I will need to read them..Does it say they NEED to leave one car width ?..

#263 dau

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:17

So Hamilton wasn't alongside as well according to the stewards? Still like to see an onboard. I agree with them regarding Alonso, he was clearly behind and was not forced off the circuit.

#264 Skinnyguy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:18

Alonso was behind so it was just defending with him, but Lewis was alongside.


Actually it´s the other way around.

Lewis´ incident looked worse but he was fully behind when Nico started to move, while Alonso had already pulled alongside.

#265 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:18

Alonso was behind so it was just defending with him, but Lewis was alongside. Once a driver is in that position, you absolutely cannot just run over to the inside and push them off the road. Thats not defending anymore, its just desperation and it could be very dangerous if it happens in the wrong place.

No he wasn't

The stewards added: "Had a significant portion of Car 4 (Hamilton) been alongside that of Car 8 (Rosberg) whilst Car 4 still remained within the confines of the track, then the actions of Car 8 may not be considered legitimate."



#266 Ellios

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:18

unless there is a decision pending then HAM was never under investigation? In the incident only Rosberg's actions were deemed worthy of an investigation...?

#267 slmk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:18

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99102


As expected, no penalty.

LH and Alonso were behind which means they weren't squeezed out by Rosberg.

#268 4MEN

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:21

So? If the track were wider, Hamilton would have passed without getting his tyres dirty. Neither of those two things are true or relevant.


But it wasn't. Hamilton overtook outside the track. But it's not the first time a driver does it without penalty, so it doesn't matter. End of discussion. :cool:

Alonso was behind so it was just defending with him, but Lewis was alongside. Once a driver is in that position, you absolutely cannot just run over to the inside and push them off the road. Thats not defending anymore, its just desperation and it could be very dangerous if it happens in the wrong place.


No it wasn't, according to the stewards,

The stewards added: "Had a significant portion of Car 4 (Hamilton) been alongside that of Car 8 (Rosberg) whilst Car 4 still remained within the confines of the track, then the actions of Car 8 may not be considered legitimate."


Edited by 4MEN, 22 April 2012 - 17:22.


#269 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:21

Alonso cut a corner and gained an advantage. Hamilton was on a straight. Major difference.

I'd say thats a minor difference. The situations are pretty comparable. Bothd drivers were forced off-track. Alonso had no choice but to cut the corner just like Lewis had no choice but to continue on the straight. Both gained a position that they were going to get if they hadn't been pushed off. The stewards were pretty strict in enforcing the 'no passing off-the-track' rule with Alonso, but obviously felt a bit more sympathy for Lewis here today cuz they would be within their right to give him a penalty for it.

#270 Markn93

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:22

"I can only say that if, instead of such a wide run-off area there had been a wall, I'm not sure I'd be here now to talk about it," said Alonso.

Wow, strong words, I expect the same from Lewis.

#271 MichaelPM

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:22

So since Lewis was not alongside (according to the stewards) and by going off track he was able to get alongside and gain the inside line.. that's an advantage?

Unless a different camera angle shows something vastly different it should result in a post race drive through or +10 seconds to the finishing time.

Edited by MichaelPM, 22 April 2012 - 17:23.


#272 Dunder

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:22

Actually it´s the other way around.

Lewis´ incident looked worse but he was fully behind when Nico started to move, while Alonso had already pulled alongside.


Alonso was never alongside. There was always more than a car length between him a Rosberg by the time Rosberg had moved to the edge of the track.

I still haven't seen an onboard from Hamilton's car, but according to the Stewards, it was the same.

#273 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:22

"He tried to kill me" is my all-time favourite.

#274 lokiman

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:23

Except that... they weren't. Replays show that both LH and Alonso were behind Rosberg.


The Alonso incident isn't quite as clear-cut, but it's very clear that at no time did Rosberg squeeze Hamilton because, quite simply, Hamilton was behind him for the entire time that Rosberg was moving across the track.

#275 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:24

Is there a video of the Lewis incident? It looked like he was alongside to me, but I guess it was hard to tell from the camera angle.

If he was actually behind, then what Nico did was fine, and Lewis should have been the one looking at a penalty. At first, I thought he was forced off-track, but if he actually made the decision to go off-track to make the pass, then thats certainly not right and dangerous.

#276 puxanando

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:24

:rolleyes: Rosberg the new "FIA-Darling" ??

#277 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:24

Alonso: @alo_oficial: I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ;)))

He's being a bit melodramatic there!

What I don't get is this. Either Rosberg was wrong or Hamilton was wrong...they can't BOTH get off. If Rosbergs move is deemed as legit then the Hamilton passed him off the track. If Hamilton was justified going off track then Rosberg forced him.

Edited by RockyRaccoon68, 22 April 2012 - 17:26.


#278 johnmhinds

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:24

No he wasn't



The stewards added: "Had a significant portion of Car 4 (Hamilton) been alongside that of Car 8 (Rosberg) whilst Car 4 still remained within the confines of the track, then the actions of Car 8 may not be considered legitimate."


If this is the case Lewis should have been penalased for passing Rosberg while off the track surely?

The decision doesn't make much sense to me.

The Bahrain stewards have set a precedent by saying it's now of to squeeze drivers off the track. And it's ok for drivers to pass while they aren't on the track.

"shrug"

Edited by johnmhinds, 22 April 2012 - 17:26.


#279 Fergo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:25

Alonso: @alo_oficial: I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ;)))

He's being a bit melodramatic there!

Best thing he's said/done since he kicked the bin over in Charlie Whiting's office.

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#280 Massa

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:25

It's a joke. Schumacher was bashed last year at Monza and Nico squeeze both drivers and he receive no penalty.

If all the driver does the same than Rosberg did today, it will be the end of overtaking in F1.

#281 Markn93

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:25

The Alonso incident isn't quite as clear-cut, but it's very clear that at no time did Rosberg squeeze Hamilton because, quite simply, Hamilton was behind him for the entire time that Rosberg was moving across the track.


What about when Hamilton was off the track, alongside Rosberg, who then continues to go right pushing him further off track?

Edit: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17803868 at 07 and 08 seconds on this vid.

Edited by Markn93, 22 April 2012 - 17:27.


#282 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:26

Given the penalty Nasr received in GP2 i expected nothing less from these morons.

#283 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:26

Is there a video of the Lewis incident? It looked like he was alongside to me, but I guess it was hard to tell from the camera angle.

If he was actually behind, then what Nico did was fine, and Lewis should have been the one looking at a penalty. At first, I thought he was forced off-track, but if he actually made the decision to go off-track to make the pass, then thats certainly not right and dangerous.


There was a good onboard video on Sky, shows how close Hamilton was to the barrier but nothing on youtube yet.

#284 iotar

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:27

Mercedes is the new FIA's darling. Firstly f-duct and now this. And Kartikheyan got a penalty for Vettel incident. :lol:

If it was Vergne or Glock they wouldn't have gotten away with that. I hope someone does the same to Rosberg in the place where there'll be no run-off, wall would be too harsh.

#285 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:27

Alonso on twitter:

@alo_oficial I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and overtake outside track! Enjoy!


Nicos in for some fun next time he's near Alonso on track.

#286 lokiman

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:27

No he wasn't



The more I've replayed the Rosberg/Hamilton incident, the more confused I am by Hamilton's actions. Hamilton was sat right on Rosberg's gearbox until he jigged to the right and went off-track to pass.

#287 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:27

If this is the case Lewis should have been penalased for passing Rosberg while off the track surely?

The decision doesn't make much sense to me.

The Bahrain stewards have set a precedent by saying it's now of to squeeze drivers off the track. And it's ok for drivers to pass while they aren't on the track.

"shrug"


Exactly, that's what I said above. They can't BOTH be in the clear.


#288 Aieljose

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:28

So if according to the stewards lewis was not alongside rosberg then he really wasn't forced off track was he? If he then wasn't forced off track then how can you justify him going off track to make the pass?

#289 Kvothe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:28

Best thing he's said/done since he kicked the bin over in Charlie Whiting's office.


When did that happen?

#290 lokiman

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:30

What about when Hamilton was off the track, alongside Rosberg, who then continues to go right pushing him further off track?

Edit: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17803868 at 07 and 08 seconds on this vid.


It looks to me that, as soon as Rosberg saw that Hamilton was coming down the right side (off track), he moved left. Let's face it, it was a pretty weird move on Hamilton's part and not one that Rosberg would have been expecting.

#291 puxanando

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:31

Alonso: @alo_oficial: I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ;)))

He's being a bit melodramatic there!

What I don't get is this. Either Rosberg was wrong or Hamilton was wrong...they can't BOTH get off. If Rosbergs move is deemed as legit then the Hamilton passed him off the track. If Hamilton was justified going off track then Rosberg forced him.


**LIKE!! :rotfl:


#292 ImAnEngineer

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:31

lol, I love the armchair stewards that post here. Not one of them provided any evidence to support their claims that HAM or ALO were alongside.

They both had the option of using the other pedal at their feet if they felt they were running out of room.

#293 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:31

Alonso: @alo_oficial: I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ;)))

He's being a bit melodramatic there!

What I don't get is this. Either Rosberg was wrong or Hamilton was wrong...they can't BOTH get off. If Rosbergs move is deemed as legit then the Hamilton passed him off the track. If Hamilton was justified going off track then Rosberg forced him.

If Alonso was behind Rosberg, then Rosberg's actions were fine and Alonso has no reason to complain. You are allowed to defend to the inside like Nico did and the whole point of doing it is to make the other driver take the outside line. You cant get upset because you wanted the inside and the guy in front took it from you. They have that right in F1. The 'allow space' thing Alonso was talking about specifically refers to when a driver comes back over to the racing line. In that situation, they need to leave a car's width on the outside. It doesn't apply here.

#294 plastik2k9

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:32

Now we wait to see someone try this where the outside of the track isn't also a track. Won't be a pretty sight, but apparently it's legal. The problem with the Hamilton incident is that Rosberg continues to move over even when Hamilton is off the circuit. So it's probably only right that Nico lost the place, morally. But legally I'm not sure how Lewis avoids a penalty here, maybe because it would make it seem like Hamilton was the offender in the whole incident.

EDIT: I do wonder though, would Lewis and Fernando have driven so far over if it wasn't a track like this? Maybe the run off makes this seem worse than it is. Because it doesn't seem the rules prevent what Nico did.

Edited by plastik2k9, 22 April 2012 - 17:33.


#295 Ellios

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:32

If this is the case Lewis should have been penalased for passing Rosberg while off the track surely?

The decision doesn't make much sense to me.

The Bahrain stewards have set a precedent by saying it's now of to squeeze drivers off the track. And it's ok for drivers to pass while they aren't on the track.

"shrug"


agreed - it appears HAM's overtake outside of the track was not investigated - ALO was right behind ROS & HAM when the incident took place, so got a great view of it - in a way ALO should have done the same move on ROS instead of backing out. It is now perfectly acceptable to overtake off track, and presumably perfectly acceptable to block an opponent off the track as well

fun times ahead!


#296 Kvothe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:35

agreed - it appears HAM's overtake outside of the track was not investigated - ALO was right behind ROS & HAM when the incident took place, so got a great view of it - in a way ALO should have done the same move on ROS instead of backing out. It is now perfectly acceptable to overtake off track, and presumably perfectly acceptable to block an opponent off the track as well

fun times ahead!


Alonso was ahead of Button who was ahead of Lewis at this point, it was Massa who was behind.

#297 lokiman

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:37

As a McLaren fan, it almost seems strange to be saying this, but as Hamilton was clearly not forced off track by Rosberg, I'm confused as to why the stewards are seemingly happy with Hamilton's overtake.

#298 Ellios

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:37

Alonso was ahead of Button who was ahead of Lewis at this point, it was Massa who was behind.


:up:

#299 Fergo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:41

When did that happen?

I believe it was in James Allen's book, after qualifying in Monza 2006 and that infamous penalty.

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#300 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:44

After seeing more angles etc Rosberg didn't force either Hamilton or Alonso off the track. They were both behind, Rosberg went to the right and both drivers followed. What I now don't understand is how Hamilton's pass was allowed since he wasn't forced off track.