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Rosberg "F1 is a complete different sport this days"


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#701 Augurk

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:38

I seem to remember in the Bridgestone twilight years the drivers were managing their tires all throughout the race, just to be able to do just 1 stop.

Now drivers are managing their tires.... all throughout the race. They just do more pitstops.

I do agree management is part of the racing game, but it has to be a choice. There has to be a driver strategy involved. Do I push or do I manage to save for later? There's no options now. And that's crazy. It's just managing the tires because they need managing, not because it provides a strategic advantage. If they can flip that around (make pushing possible) then we've got a winner.

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#702 handel

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:18

I seem to remember in the Bridgestone twilight years the drivers were managing their tires all throughout the race, just to be able to do just 1 stop.

Now drivers are managing their tires.... all throughout the race. They just do more pitstops.

I do agree management is part of the racing game, but it has to be a choice. There has to be a driver strategy involved. Do I push or do I manage to save for later? There's no options now. And that's crazy. It's just managing the tires because they need managing, not because it provides a strategic advantage. If they can flip that around (make pushing possible) then we've got a winner.


Well then we need to work on making the pit lanes much safer in any way possible, but stop their speeds going down - around 30s is not not do-able and promotes tyre saving. This way there's less penalty on making a pit stop > ergo less penalty for destroying tyres by pushing.

#703 ViMaMo

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:50

Here are my observations from the race laps of Bahrain:

1. Drivers on soft tyres went fastest the first few laps, then went slower and slower.
2. Drivers could only hope to go faster if they pitted for fresh tyres.
3. The improvement is usually 1 sec.
These two aspects show entirely different behavior to tyres of recent years, should you not be going faster as the fuel load goes down? Atleast thats what we saw in Bridgestone, cars went faster as the fuel load goes down.

3. The medium compound tyres have much better consistency but there too we see that fuel load doesnt play a big role, why? The lap times seem so consistent for many drivers.

#704 finignig

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:03

Here are my observations from the race laps of Bahrain:

1. Drivers on soft tyres went fastest the first few laps, then went slower and slower.
2. Drivers could only hope to go faster if they pitted for fresh tyres.
3. The improvement is usually 1 sec.
These two aspects show entirely different behavior to tyres of recent years, should you not be going faster as the fuel load goes down? Atleast thats what we saw in Bridgestone, cars went faster as the fuel load goes down.

3. The medium compound tyres have much better consistency but there too we see that fuel load doesnt play a big role, why? The lap times seem so consistent for many drivers.


For me that's the smoking gun that these tires are not "up to" the job, if you cant drive your car to the limit or else the tires will break away then you simply need BETTER tires. These tires seem to only handle a couple of laps on the limit then need to be nursed all the way through or else "they will fall off a cliff". IMO that is simply is not accepted, I want to see the cars on the limit more of the time rather than nursing tires, this ratio of on the limit/tire management exercise needs to be "Switched around".

#705 CoolBreeze

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:05

The best era was probably 1995-2004.

Then they had that silly single tyre rule in 2005.

#706 ali_M

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:32

Fr the record I will repeat, I do not defend the new tires, but merely point out that management isn't particular to tody's Formula 1, and it's been he all along except for mid 90ies to recent. The new tires are stupid wearing out that fast, and I have said before to make it better what they have to d is abolish the forceful use of both compounds and make the soft tire last half the race (managed) and the hard go all the way to the end (managed). You qualify the coound you prefer, but you must race the compound you qualified. That would bring in a nice range of strategies and pure racing, and maintain the proper "management" element. A third super soft compound would bring in a wider range of strategies.


I still see car and tyre management in today's F1. Since this current no refueling era, I've seen drivers have to slow down in order to save fuel. There wasn't an uproar and furer when Rosberg was instructed to save his front left tyre in China and he did just that for much of the third stint. Why no uproar? We all assumed that he was pushing at the beginning of the race and did seem to since he ran wide a few times. He built up a big lead and then nursed the car home. The business of pushing and building up a nice margin, then nursing the car home was Vettel's race style all of last year.

I'm not sure why you're saying that car management has gone away. No one is complaining about this.

However, the situation with the Pirelli's push things too far and wholly unnecessarily so. It's now entered into the realm of farce and you will not hear F1 journalists and F1 management bigwigs admit to this readily, if at all. There's a show to run and make money from here.

I wouldn't compare era's either. Though those cars back in the 80's had to be managed in different ways from now, those drivers had to work hard. There were many instances where drivers were exhausted at the end of races. What of Bahrain 2012? A 43yr old was complaining that he couldn't push during the race because of EXCESSIVE concerns about tyre wear. He felt like he was following a safety car.

I'm surprised this is being debated so much! Wow.... :evil:

Edited by ali_M, 26 April 2012 - 10:35.


#707 PretentiousBread

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:46

But everyone complained before without DRS, KERS and tyres that last an entire race back in 2010. I'll admit F1 is less pure right now, but really you guys complained so so much in 2010 too. It's a lose lose situation. I think you guys should just quit F1 if you ask me, as you just don't enjoy it any more. Better to just pretend you're back in the 80's when everything was supposedly much better because obviously everything is awful now.


Highly patronising post this one :down:

As Fieraku has already said, he got up early in the morning in the states to watch hundreds of races knowing full well a lot of them would be dull, but safe in the knowledge that the racing was genuine and pure. It's like if boxing became WWE, it'd probably be more popular and 'exciting' and you wouldn't get a bad fight, all at the minor expense of the cost of the sport's soul.

#708 PretentiousBread

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:46

http://i92.photobuck...TrulliTrain.jpg

Reallllyyy....



What's your point?

#709 ivand911

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:52

The first thing they can do now is to return 2011 tyres. With their wider window.

#710 spacekid

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:37

Highly patronising post this one :down:

As Fieraku has already said, he got up early in the morning in the states to watch hundreds of races knowing full well a lot of them would be dull, but safe in the knowledge that the racing was genuine and pure. It's like if boxing became WWE, it'd probably be more popular and 'exciting' and you wouldn't get a bad fight, all at the minor expense of the cost of the sport's soul.


:up:

Precisely.

I for one was not complaining when the races were 'dull', I enjoyed watching it. And the races with genuine excitement were genuinly, well, exciting.

Now that races are tailored towards constant 'action' what is there to be special anymore?

#711 Wintermute

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:43

First off, I did not read the whole "limit" discussion. From what I read, though, I feel that a very important point has been left out.

Let us assume that driving on the limit means driving as fast as the whole package of all parts of the car allows - on the verge of losing it. This obviously requires immense talent and skill and is (or has been) the ultimate means in F1 to separate the good from the best.

Now with the current tires, there is a penalty for driving at the limit. Such that when you are driving at the limit for only one lap or some turns the tire performance starts to drop significantly. Therefore it is not worthwhile to even attack the limit at all and drivers are required to drive at a good margin below the limit. This completely takes talent and skill out of the equation since every decent driver would be able to drive the car in that margin (in contrast to "at the limit").


#712 finignig

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:55

First off, I did not read the whole "limit" discussion. From what I read, though, I feel that a very important point has been left out.

Let us assume that driving on the limit means driving as fast as the whole package of all parts of the car allows - on the verge of losing it. This obviously requires immense talent and skill and is (or has been) the ultimate means in F1 to separate the good from the best.

Now with the current tires, there is a penalty for driving at the limit. Such that when you are driving at the limit for only one lap or some turns the tire performance starts to drop significantly. Therefore it is not worthwhile to even attack the limit at all and drivers are required to drive at a good margin below the limit. This completely takes talent and skill out of the equation since every decent driver would be able to drive the car in that margin (in contrast to "at the limit").


Each car has it's own window and delta time to stick to in order to make ANY strategy worthwhile i.e tires lasting a stint without tires *falling off a cliff*. the engineers have all the parameters being calculated on the fly and provide the driver a delta time to stick to in order to achieve just that.. :cry:

This needs to be FIXED asap.

#713 ali_M

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:55

First off, I did not read the whole "limit" discussion. From what I read, though, I feel that a very important point has been left out.

Let us assume that driving on the limit means driving as fast as the whole package of all parts of the car allows - on the verge of losing it. This obviously requires immense talent and skill and is (or has been) the ultimate means in F1 to separate the good from the best.

Now with the current tires, there is a penalty for driving at the limit. Such that when you are driving at the limit for only one lap or some turns the tire performance starts to drop significantly. Therefore it is not worthwhile to even attack the limit at all and drivers are required to drive at a good margin below the limit. This completely takes talent and skill out of the equation since every decent driver would be able to drive the car in that margin (in contrast to "at the limit").


:up: The "mediocre" drivers are just loving it. Suddenly, they're as good as everyone else!! :p

Of course, all things being relative, my use of the word 'mediocre' is a relative one. :stoned:

Edited by ali_M, 26 April 2012 - 13:17.


#714 flyer121

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:08

1 photo proves what exactly?


Proves that if you cant overtake then the supposed "driving on the limit" is not gonna help !

#715 flyer121

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:15

:up:

Precisely.

I for one was not complaining when the races were 'dull', I enjoyed watching it. And the races with genuine excitement were genuinly, well, exciting.

Now that races are tailored towards constant 'action' what is there to be special anymore?


What exactly was genuine ? That ferrari had the enormous advantage of a private race track , extra FIA funding and a custom tyre factory in the garage.
Those days were more like WWF than ever... I m not even sure how ppl are comparing todays F1 to WWE - do they know what WWE is in the first place ... its a scripted event.

At worst F1 can be described (by disgruntled fans only ) as a Lottery .... but WWE?? The equipment is the same for everyone , the track is the same and the winner is not pre-decided - How is it not genuine racing?

And lastly any driver getting beaten in Qualy by the teammate shouldnt risk embarrassment by saying that the tyres cant be pushed to the limit? How is your teammate ahead by half a sec on the same tyres / car then? Looking at you Schumi ...

Edited by flyer121, 26 April 2012 - 12:16.


#716 fieraku

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:49

http://i92.photobuck...TrulliTrain.jpg

Reallllyyy....

I'll see your Trulli and raise you DiResta

Posted Image

What now? :confused:

#717 ali_M

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 13:22

What exactly was genuine ? That ferrari had the enormous advantage of a private race track , extra FIA funding and a custom tyre factory in the garage.
Those days were more like WWF than ever... I m not even sure how ppl are comparing todays F1 to WWE - do they know what WWE is in the first place ... its a scripted event.

At worst F1 can be described (by disgruntled fans only ) as a Lottery .... but WWE?? The equipment is the same for everyone , the track is the same and the winner is not pre-decided - How is it not genuine racing?

And lastly any driver getting beaten in Qualy by the teammate shouldnt risk embarrassment by saying that the tyres cant be pushed to the limit? How is your teammate ahead by half a sec on the same tyres / car then? Looking at you Schumi ...


Even in sport where there is no machinery involved, athletes do not necessarily see their full potential because they don't enjoy the coaching and other benefits that some of the other athletes enjoy. No matter which way you turn in sport, it's never really a level playing field is it? So what if the front running F1 teams have more money and resources to make themselves more competitive than the backmarker teams and midfielders.

This piece of reality isn't at all the issue.

#718 fieraku

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 13:24

Highly patronising post this one :down:

As Fieraku has already said, he got up early in the morning in the states to watch hundreds of races knowing full well a lot of them would be dull, but safe in the knowledge that the racing was genuine and pure. It's like if boxing became WWE, it'd probably be more popular and 'exciting' and you wouldn't get a bad fight, all at the minor expense of the cost of the sport's soul.

Any Schumacher vs Hill,Villenueve,Hakkinen,Coulthard,Montoya,Raikkonen,Alonso and whomever is worth mentioning was worth everything.The relentless pursuits,the ballsy passes as rare as they were required work and skill. Sitting on the edge of the couch biting the nails wondering whether your driver's engine would pop,whether he'd run wide and get stuck in gravel.

Now a race finish is almost guaranteed,an off track not punished,and to top it all we have cheese tires that have turned racing into Sunday afternoon drives.

By the time the last stint comes around the race is finished and everyone is just "bringing it home"


Also 07-08-09-10 the racing was great with some epic races and battles.No way in hell this is racing now when going faster punishes you.

#719 aliasj

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 21:06

I DON'T understand why there is so much FIGHT over this issue between fans? Just a simple debate and a casual discussion would be fine ain't it? Anyways,

I'm not asking for much, just that a 'little-bit' more peak-effectiveness of the tires, that's all, just perhaps 4-5 laps of extra optimum range, should be great. In fact, even last year's Pirellis were quite okay. What changed between the Pirelli 2011 tires and 2012 tires by the way? Hmm, this year somehow everyone's talking a lot about tires.

My point is, remember Mark Webber in China last year? How he fought from the back to P4, I guess? I'm afraid that that kind of situation won't be possible in this year's races. Its sort of unfortunate, if you have a problem in Qualifying, or in the race you're spun out, or had a puncture, you're done, its not possible to fight back anymore. That's a little bit concerning.

Button and Vettel hit Karthikeyan in Malaysia, and their races were done. Raikkonen hit the cliff, his race was done. Hamilton and Button had problems in the pit-stops, and their races were done. Like I said, just a 'little-bit' more extra life, that's all Pirelli. 4, 5 laps instead of 1, please?

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#720 aliasj

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 21:10

Oh, yea. Lets not talk about the past. Its the present that matters. On one hand teams will find ways to better understand this year's tires (they're all saying so), and on the other hand, hopefully Pirelli adds a 'little-bit' more peak-operating range, that's all Sirs. F1 2012 would be even better!!

Thanks.

#721 ivand911

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:34

Is GP2 using the same tyres? So, teams with GP2 teams will have advantage in tyre understanding?

#722 jamiegc

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:17

Is GP2 using the same tyres? So, teams with GP2 teams will have advantage in tyre understanding?


No, GP2 use Pirelli tyres, but a different specification to F1 tyres.

#723 Alx09

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:35

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99168

Tyres, tyres, tyres - Formula1, now known as Tyretactics1. Because cars, drivers, skill and driving on the limits are irrelevant factors.

#724 Massa_f1

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:43

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99168

Tyres, tyres, tyres - Formula1, now known as Tyretactics1. Because cars, drivers, skill and driving on the limits are irrelevant factors.


Shame F1 has gone down this path.

No more driver errors in races. Why? because they are not pushing, and your granny could drive one of these. :down:

I personly think cars should be punished for not running in q3 just so they can stroll along in the race with fresher tyres and finish in 6th or 7th.

Everyone has a different opinion, but to me thats not racing.

Edited by Massa_f1, 27 April 2012 - 10:45.


#725 ivand911

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:54

Tyres shouldn't be a puzzle. The working window should be big enough for all teams. Tyres should give only performance, not head ache. You use them , throw them away and you forget about them.

#726 Pits

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:06

Yeah, these tires are a joke. This has got nothing to do with F1 anymore.
The be hounest, I'm not even enjoying the races anymore because it all seems fake and artifical.
The best thing Pirelli could do is change back to the 2011 spec, or start developing a stronger tire fast.

The real F1 is going down the drain...

Edited by Pits, 27 April 2012 - 12:09.


#727 aliasj

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:15

Congratulations F1!

You are now as fast as a GP2 car in Qualifying. I would like to extend you my utmost compliments on your splendid and remarkable achievement. Your race lap times are now identical to the GP2 cars in Qualifying. I would like to beg this question - Have you done this on purpose? so that now more fans will not mind watching GP2? And to think they they don't even have the same budget as you guys!? They don't even have the great engineering and aerospace minds as you guys! They're all using outdated F1 technology, and they're a Tier 2 series, but no, with all your craze for ''exciting'' races, and despite all the teams exhaustive development and research on the cars, and having perhaps the most competitive F1 driver grid in history, in the end it all came down to those shitty tires. No matter how fast the car is, you have successfully limited its pace so that it will not run any faster.

http://www.gp2series...mp;seasonid=168
http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html

Thank you very much, not. :blush:

#728 pUs

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:22

Congratulations F1!

You are now as fast as a GP2 car in Qualifying. I would like to extend you my utmost compliments on your splendid and remarkable achievement. Your race lap times are now identical to the GP2 cars in Qualifying. I would like to beg this question - Have you done this on purpose? so that now more fans will not mind watching GP2? And to think they they don't even have the same budget as you guys!? They don't even have the great engineering and aerospace minds as you guys! They're all using outdated F1 technology, and they're a Tier 2 series, but no, with all your craze for ''exciting'' races, and despite all the teams exhaustive development and research on the cars, and having perhaps the most competitive F1 driver grid in history, in the end it all came down to those shitty tires. No matter how fast the car is, you have successfully limited its pace so that it will not run any faster.

http://www.gp2series...mp;seasonid=168
http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html

Thank you very much, not. :blush:


Well, the fastest GP2 car in qualifying is just about faster than the slowest F1 car in race trim.

Still, kinda proves my point earlier, the tires are simply not good enough under current circumstances. Maybe if refuelling was allowed, but not as things stand right now.

#729 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:28

Still, kinda proves my point earlier, the tires are simply not good enough under current circumstances. Maybe if refuelling was allowed, but not as things stand right now.

The Gp2 cars get to use f1 tyres though, if they had ye olde Avons that Heidfeld, Webber and co had they would be smashed, (and they would be way faster than f1 if they had bridgestones......)

#730 pUs

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:31

The Gp2 cars get to use f1 tyres though, if they had ye olde Avons that Heidfeld, Webber and co had they would be smashed, (and they would be way faster than f1 if they had bridgestones......)


Probably :lol: Kinda sad.

#731 ali_M

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:54

Doesn't look much different here though (speed difference not much different if at all, from that demonstrated for Bahrain 2012):
GP2 - Turkey 2011
F1 - Turkey 2011

;)

Edited by ali_M, 27 April 2012 - 12:58.


#732 fieraku

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 14:32

Congratulations F1!

You are now as fast as a GP2 car in Qualifying. I would like to extend you my utmost compliments on your splendid and remarkable achievement. Your race lap times are now identical to the GP2 cars in Qualifying. I would like to beg this question - Have you done this on purpose? so that now more fans will not mind watching GP2? And to think they they don't even have the same budget as you guys!? They don't even have the great engineering and aerospace minds as you guys! They're all using outdated F1 technology, and they're a Tier 2 series, but no, with all your craze for ''exciting'' races, and despite all the teams exhaustive development and research on the cars, and having perhaps the most competitive F1 driver grid in history, in the end it all came down to those shitty tires. No matter how fast the car is, you have successfully limited its pace so that it will not run any faster.

http://www.gp2series...mp;seasonid=168
http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html

Thank you very much, not. :blush:

:lol: only 20 KPH faster average.

POS NO DRIVERS TEAMS LAPS TIME GAP INT. KPH
1 3 D. Valsecchi DAMS 22 39:22.363 181.066

Pos No Driver Team Lap Time Of Day Avg Speed T
1 1 Sebastian Vettel 41 16:12:43 202.151

#733 Atreiu

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:38

It feels like Jonathan Noble is on a cruzade to catechize us on the merits of Pirelli, or something like that.

#734 MDL

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:40

FI has become a eunich. NOW the latest factor is tires which I agree are a joke. Schumi said it.
ANYTHING to add a lottery factor to the races. IS THIS WHAT WE WANT? IS THIS NASCAR?

THE FIA HAS RUINED F1.

All the rules are ridiculous for the pinnacle of racing.

EVERYONE SHOULD COMPLAIN AND PROTEST.

The show is about money, not racing.

WTF - Bring back all the rules fron 97 etc.

We will never see REAL racing again. DRS?????? Cruising to manage tires??????

WE ALL WANT BALLS TO THE WALLS RACING AGAIN!!!

Remember, being politically correct, has NOTHING to do with real racing. the Mantra is all about stupid rules that impact teams for WHAT?
A GEARBOX CHANGE???? It has become a farce.

Time to go back to the essence of F1.. It really is an insult to viewers, drivers and teams.

BTW, I am 51 and have been following the sport FOREVER.

#735 ivand911

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:53

It feels like Jonathan Noble is on a crusade to catechize us on the merits of Pirelli, or something like that.

If you are saying that he is supporting Pirelli on this, I think Keith Collantine and James Allen are too. I guess Pirelli is behind this(financially). They feel threatened. And they should be.

Edited by ivand911, 27 April 2012 - 15:54.


#736 bub

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 16:11

I would rather see drivers trying to go fast more often and conserving their tyres less

#737 Atreiu

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 16:23

;)

#738 aliasj

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 17:21

If you are saying that he is supporting Pirelli on this, I think Keith Collantine and James Allen are too. I guess Pirelli is behind this(financially). They feel threatened. And they should be.


Paul Fearnley, "Schumacher: get a grip" http://www.motorspor...yGJT5lY.twitter
grandprix.com, "Schumacher: a short memory?" http://www.grandprix...ns/ns24072.html

and so on.

Why so, btw?




#739 Pits

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:47

Paul Fearnley, "Schumacher: get a grip" http://www.motorspor...yGJT5lY.twitter
grandprix.com, "Schumacher: a short memory?" http://www.grandprix...ns/ns24072.html

and so on.

Why so, btw?


They are not news writings, just opinions.
Very poor opinions... :down:

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#740 ali_M

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 19:28

They are not news writings, just opinions.
Very poor opinions... :down:


Indeed. Opinions borne of folk with an inability to view the expressed opinion of M. Schumacher 2012 without a high level of bias and bitterness, it would seem.

They miss his point completely. When you watch the interview where M. Schumacher expresses his opinion of the race in Bahrain, I think he'd have been satisfied with 10th if he had genuinely raced to it and fought on track with some of the guys. However, he didn't even do that. He drove at a pace that was unsatisfactory and he wondered if when driving at such a pace in the interest of tyres, that it's really racing and in the interest of F1 as the sport it has been up until now.

#741 PretentiousBread

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 19:54

Indeed. Opinions borne of folk with an inability to view the expressed opinion of M. Schumacher 2012 without a high level of bias and bitterness, it would seem.

They miss his point completely. When you watch the interview where M. Schumacher expresses his opinion of the race in Bahrain, I think he'd have been satisfied with 10th if he had genuinely raced to it and fought on track with some of the guys. However, he didn't even do that. He drove at a pace that was unsatisfactory and he wondered if when driving at such a pace in the interest of tyres, that it's really racing and in the interest of F1 as the sport it has been up until now.


Bang on, these observations are completely misguided. If they applied some logic to what they were saying, they would see that Schumacher has been far more competitive with the Pirellis than he was with the Bridgestones in 2010. They were the main reason he was so much closer to Rosberg in the races last year than he was in qualifying. And if you recognise this, then you would recognise that Schumacher doesn't have any vested interest in his comments. He had no reason to complain about the tyres, if anything they helped him make his way through the field, just look at Spa 2011 as an example of this.

I'm no fan of Schumacher, far from it in fact, so I can see when people are just bashing on him because he's in the wrong about something and I can see when he's being bashed on because he's Michael Schumacher - this is definitely the latter.

#742 ivand911

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 20:37

All this BS are for sure paid by Pirelli. They even sound the same.

#743 jj2728

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 21:34

All this BS are for sure paid by Pirelli. They even sound the same.


And that's utter bull****. read the complete article. Even Fearnley agrees that the current issue with the tyres is not ideal.

"Perhaps we should return to the kind of unfettered qualifying free-for-all that Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna knew – and dispense with parc fermé while we’re at it – before bowling the teams a rubber googly or two for the tanked-up races. Certainly, we could get rid of DRS and not ‘miss’ it if Pirelli continues to be ‘at war with itself’. But there’s no rush. Stable patterns will emerge naturally as this season progresses; teams will relentlessly home in – slew of new bits, raft of new ideas – on the perfection that they always seek."



#744 ali_M

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:30

And that's utter bull****. read the complete article. Even Fearnley agrees that the current issue with the tyres is not ideal.


Fearnley is bitter and biased. Unfortunate really. I hope Schumi doesn't retire because of this silliness with the tyres. He may well do so since F1 is no longer fun/satisfying for him.

Edited by ali_M, 27 April 2012 - 22:31.


#745 jj2728

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:42

Fearnley is bitter and biased. Unfortunate really. I hope Schumi doesn't retire because of this silliness with the tyres. He may well do so since F1 is no longer fun/satisfying for him.


Why do you say he is bitter and biased? On what grounds?

#746 valachus

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:01

And that's utter bull****. read the complete article. Even Fearnley agrees that the current issue with the tyres is not ideal.

"Perhaps we should return to the kind of unfettered qualifying free-for-all that Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna knew – and dispense with parc fermé while we’re at it – before bowling the teams a rubber googly or two for the tanked-up races. Certainly, we could get rid of DRS and not ‘miss’ it if Pirelli continues to be ‘at war with itself’. But there’s no rush. Stable patterns will emerge naturally as this season progresses; teams will relentlessly home in – slew of new bits, raft of new ideas – on the perfection that they always seek."

I'm not sure when the article is realistic and honest, in this part:

"And they have a point: the set-up sweet spot is smaller than it has ever been. It’s a moving target, too, minimal – air and track – temperature changes causing wild swings of degradation and pecking order."

or in this part:

"Perhaps we should return to the kind of unfettered qualifying free-for-all that Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna knew – and dispense with parc fermé while we’re at it – before bowling the teams a rubber googly or two for the tanked-up races. Certainly, we could get rid of DRS and not ‘miss’ it if Pirelli continues to be ‘at war with itself’. But there’s no rush. Stable patterns will emerge naturally as this season progresses; teams will relentlessly home in – slew of new bits, raft of new ideas – on the perfection that they always seek."

This kind of rhetoric looks suspiciously like a straw man argument or false dichotomy.. but I digress.
Bottom point is: what is the most important component of a F1 team, according to that apologizer for the round rubber things manufacturer [can't call them "tyres", they're black and round and fit to wheels but behave like no self-respecting tyre I've ever known]? Well, nobody else than the meteorologist. Who else than a meteorologist may find the right air and track temperatures and their fluctuations with at least 24 hours in advance and therefore call for a winning setup? Might as well rename the name of the competition in "World Weather Forecast 1"

EDIT: was looking around to see some more pundit opinions and I stumbled on this pic of what I assume is a used tyre from this season.. now really... it looks to me like the surface is made of mousepad rubber sponge and completely different from the tyre walls?!?! what in the name of everything holy is that?
Posted Image

Edited by valachus, 28 April 2012 - 01:16.


#747 ali_M

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:10

Why do you say he is bitter and biased? On what grounds?


He's clearly not a Schumi fan and is happy to have his day with Schumacher over these new developments.

His attitude is uncalled for and can only be induced by bias and a bitter one at that. Why bitter?... the surprisingly hostile slur. The guy clearly lacks respect for Schumacher and his achievements.

This is all assuming that he's at all serious about any of what he writes rather than wishing to publish his article in Mad Comics. :lol:

Edited by ali_M, 28 April 2012 - 01:18.


#748 pingu666

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:58

that tyre probably isnt too far away from what normal racing tyres look like that have been used, but yeah the pirelli f1 tyres have been very odd compaired to a normal slick tyre. the early pirelli's didnt leave black marks when you spun the wheels, for example :o


#749 fieraku

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 13:45

I'm not sure when the article is realistic and honest, in this part:

or in this part:

This kind of rhetoric looks suspiciously like a straw man argument or false dichotomy.. but I digress.
Bottom point is: what is the most important component of a F1 team, according to that apologizer for the round rubber things manufacturer [can't call them "tyres", they're black and round and fit to wheels but behave like no self-respecting tyre I've ever known]? Well, nobody else than the meteorologist. Who else than a meteorologist may find the right air and track temperatures and their fluctuations with at least 24 hours in advance and therefore call for a winning setup? Might as well rename the name of the competition in "World Weather Forecast 1"

EDIT: was looking around to see some more pundit opinions and I stumbled on this pic of what I assume is a used tyre from this season.. now really... it looks to me like the surface is made of mousepad rubber sponge and completely different from the tyre walls?!?! what in the name of everything holy is that?


So true.Was it the China Quali the temp dropped 5 degrees and the times were already affected.Five frikkin degrees.Which brings me to that picture.It looks like a burnt marshmallow so no wonder 5 degrees makes that big of a difference.

And those pundits sound like Pirelli executives :down:

#750 Darth Sidious

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 13:53

Posted Image



Surely that's a tyre that has been taken off after a race finishes, and the surface is covered in collected marbles from driving off line to get the weight up? I mean, there's tons of the stuff lying around these days. I'm surprised the cars aren't coming back in with ride heights of three feet or more.

:drunk:

Unless I'm very much mistaken ( said in Murray manner), of course.