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Rosberg "F1 is a complete different sport this days"


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#1051 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:59

Both were marginally off


Actually Nico was way off (his time was 10 sec or so slower). So the young guy is driving like grandma? :) i don't remember Michael going off but if you say so.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 May 2012 - 13:02.


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#1052 Brandz07

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 13:00

He's stating that a charge of that type by Hamilton is now physically impossible because of the tyres (in their current state). You couldn't do this anyway most likely in F1 because of the aero and the general higher standard of drivers, but at least it was a possibility on more raceable tyres - it's the principle that trying to do this is an exercise in futility that annoys so many of us.



:up: Exactly what my point was.

#1053 jamiegc

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 16:35

There's a simple resolution to this thread.

If you can watch this video and still want tires like the ones Pirelli are bringing, then there's something wrong with you. :)



It just isn't possible these days. You'd be out of tires after 2 laps. Yes I understand these cars have less downforce and it's not F1, but the point still stands.


Whilst not aiming a dig at you, just 2 weeks ago, Felipe Nasr started from the pitlane in the GP2 sprint race so around 10 seconds off the back of the field and with Pirelli tyres derived from the F1 tyres, drove from 26th to 5th in 23 laps, without pitstops. :well:

#1054 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 16:40

Whilst not aiming a dig at you, just 2 weeks ago, Felipe Nasr started from the pitlane in the GP2 sprint race so around 10 seconds off the back of the field and with Pirelli tyres derived from the F1 tyres, drove from 26th to 5th in 23 laps, without pitstops. :well:


An exception to the rule. Use the mean, mode, or median and then see what number comes up? I'll bet my life the example you give can categorically be put in the bracket called statistical anomaly.

#1055 Markn93

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:21

https://twitter.com/#!/TheFifthDriver/s...5054080/photo/1

I want to know what he said!

#1056 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:24

https://twitter.com/#!/TheFifthDriver/s...5054080/photo/1

I want to know what he said!


Button is a PR man, as witnessed when he understandably avoided giving his views on Bahrain. Hence what he says on TV in front of the worlds media regarding the Pirelli's, could well be the opposite of what his real views are.

Edited by The Ragged Edge, 10 May 2012 - 17:25.


#1057 Markn93

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:29

Button is a PR man, as witnessed when he understandably avoided giving his views on Bahrain. Hence what he says on TV in front of the worlds media regarding the Pirelli's, could well be the opposite of what his real views are.


True, but I'm interested nonetheless. And to be fair, all the drivers refrained from commenting on Bahrain for the most part, and that's clearly not been the case with Pirellis.

#1058 jbarokF1

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:37

But they are still putting competitive laptimes in races and they still make mistakes in races, how about that delta boys?

If they left on track 0,5sec./lap (30sec.over race distance) by preserving tires, I would have gone for it and made 1 pitstop more.

I still think we have got genuine racing on limit set up differently, requiring different driving skills in foreground.

Why should be braking as late as possible and going on gas as soon as possible while not stressing tires too much considered as lower art of racing than squeezing last 2-3 tenths of the laptime by abusing tires in every corner?


I agree...it's now just a different approach to racing and winning..but it is still racing in my view.

I am enjoying all the races so far...maybe before they can push more with the tyres but I don't want to watch a train of cars for 60 laps! And before, you already have a good idea who will win or gets the podiums even before the qualifying had started.

It's more interesting to see how teams/drivers approach to different strategies...and how they keep changing throught the race from start to finish...Before the strategies are done and dusted before quali starts.

#1059 jamiegc

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 18:28

https://twitter.com/#!/TheFifthDriver/s...5054080/photo/1

I want to know what he said!


Sky UK interviewed him and he said that the team had all hoped and expected that warmer temperatures in Bahrain would work for them, but obviously they didnt.

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#1060 Timstr11

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 17:41

This gives us a pretty good idea of Lewis' view (from formula1.com).
Confirms that he does not enjoy the tyres either, but he's looking at it from a fan's perspective.

Q: This year the season seems to be very exciting, as there is no real dominant team on the grid. What is your impression?
Lewis Hamilton: It is a very, very close season. You do not know where abouts you lay. The Ferraris may have brought a big update package for this race, which could give them a big step forward, but then again everyone could bring some very good updates. Then it is going to be interesting to see who has done better homework. There have been some interesting wins this year already, but this is exactly how the season is going to be and hopefully it will become one of the most exciting ones also for the fans in particular. Also for me all of this is a pleasant situation, as this is exactly what we want, rather than two teams dominating and then having a chunk in the middle and one at the back. Fact is that it was not too easy during the last races to overtake a Williams or a Sauber.

Q: What will be the biggest question that needs to be answered this year in order to be able to win the world championship?
LH: In my eyes it is on how you are able to manage your tyres. When you do your first laps the car feels great and you have good grip on the rear. But after a few laps the car starts oversteering and you constantly work on prolonging the life of your tyres. You try not to brake too late and under-rotate the rear tyres, and not to wheel-spin on the exits of the corners and minimize the oversteer moments. It is a little bit frustrating, as you do not have as much fun in the car as you want to have.



#1061 Kvothe

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 18:07

This gives us a pretty good idea of Lewis' view (from formula1.com).
Confirms that he does not enjoy the tyres either, but he's looking at it from a fan's perspective.


Isn't that the perspective anyone questioned in F1 about the Pirellis seems to offer?

#1062 Timstr11

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 19:50

Isn't that the perspective anyone questioned in F1 about the Pirellis seems to offer?

True. Just pointing out his literal opinion. For the record.

#1063 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 20:00

All this criticism of Pirelli's tyres can't be good for their brand image.

Surely, they'll adjust their approach somewhat and make durable (yet still exciting) tyres around Canada time?

#1064 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 20:04

Close this thread and get on with the racing.

#1065 JV97

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 20:38

As time goes on, this debate and Mr Hembrey are really starting to piss me off.

Him and team owners constantly treating fans like they're to shallow or thick to return from this chaotic style of F1.

Hembrey saying the alternative is to go back to non degradation. No it's not. Just let us see the fastest drivers in the world drive as fast as they can when needed on tyres that won't last the whole race without being heavily nursed.

He keeps saying they were told to replicate Canada 2010. Well how far off qualy times were the race times then compared to now? They've given us that degradation but got it badly wrong by not building robust tyres up to that point.

And it's not about people moaning because their favourite team/driver isn't winning. It's about knowing the pinnacle of motorsport is actually delivering us proper flat out racing.

I honestly can't believe long term F1 fans are happy knowing the drivers aren't able/having to push and come out of each race fresh as a daisy.

But it's the same old arguments over and over again.

I just hope things change, Pirelli prove me wrong and we get drivers soon coming out excited about the race they've just hung it all out to win.

#1066 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 20:42

As time goes on, this debate and Mr Hembrey are really starting to piss me off.

Him and team owners constantly treating fans like they're to shallow or thick to return from this chaotic style of F1.

Hembrey saying the alternative is to go back to non degradation. No it's not. Just let us see the fastest drivers in the world drive as fast as they can when needed on tyres that won't last the whole race without being heavily nursed.

He keeps saying they were told to replicate Canada 2010. Well how far off qualy times were the race times then compared to now? They've given us that degradation but got it badly wrong by not building robust tyres up to that point.

And it's not about people moaning because their favourite team/driver isn't winning. It's about knowing the pinnacle of motorsport is actually delivering us proper flat out racing.

I honestly can't believe long term F1 fans are happy knowing the drivers aren't able/having to push and come out of each race fresh as a daisy.

But it's the same old arguments over and over again.

I just hope things change, Pirelli prove me wrong and we get drivers soon coming out excited about the race they've just hung it all out to win.


I totally agree. Same happens with DRS, I can't believe proper racing fans actually like this kind of gimmicks

#1067 jbarokF1

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 20:43

Close this thread and get on with the racing.

:clap: :up:

#1068 ali_M

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 00:47

I totally agree. Same happens with DRS, I can't believe proper racing fans actually like this kind of gimmicks


Gimmickry creeping in. The best way to do so is to do it gradually. The first one was KERS. Not bad considering that a driver can use it to attack as well as defend his position. There's never really an unfair advantage unless a particular car isn't outfitted with KERS. Even then, the weight distribution advantage of a non-KERS car made for an interesting twist.

Then came the DRS. Again, not going down too well, but we're now acclimatized.

It's now the tyres... we'll soon not recall all the objections. Then one day, F1 will be made to suddenly realize where it has gone and by then it will not be recoverable.

#1069 rhukkas

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:14

Close this thread and get on with the racing.


It's not racing according to Pirelli. They are in the entertainment business

http://www.telegraph...y-the-ride.html

#1070 Fortymark

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:24

F1 is not about aero any more, it´s about getting the best out of the tires. :up:
So many different teams can fight for wins and poles, that can´t be a bad thing.
F1 has never been better than what we see now, best drivers, equal engines, same
tires and many overtakings. It´s like a faster F3.. :clap:

#1071 rhukkas

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:41

Modern F1 as defined by Family Guy



#1072 weston

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:49

It's not racing according to Pirelli. They are in the entertainment business

http://www.telegraph...y-the-ride.html


Is this Pirelli guy from Hollywood? Is FIA the new FCC or Ofcom?

#1073 SenorSjon

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:57

As time goes on, this debate and Mr Hembrey are really starting to piss me off.

Him and team owners constantly treating fans like they're to shallow or thick to return from this chaotic style of F1.

Hembrey saying the alternative is to go back to non degradation. No it's not. Just let us see the fastest drivers in the world drive as fast as they can when needed on tyres that won't last the whole race without being heavily nursed.

He keeps saying they were told to replicate Canada 2010. Well how far off qualy times were the race times then compared to now? They've given us that degradation but got it badly wrong by not building robust tyres up to that point.

And it's not about people moaning because their favourite team/driver isn't winning. It's about knowing the pinnacle of motorsport is actually delivering us proper flat out racing.

I honestly can't believe long term F1 fans are happy knowing the drivers aren't able/having to push and come out of each race fresh as a daisy.

But it's the same old arguments over and over again.

I just hope things change, Pirelli prove me wrong and we get drivers soon coming out excited about the race they've just hung it all out to win.

This behaviour vs. fans that don't like current F1 is puting me off. I sure as hell won't buy their road tires

F1 is not about aero any more, it´s about getting the best out of the tires. :up:
So many different teams can fight for wins and poles, that can´t be a bad thing.
F1 has never been better than what we see now, best drivers, equal engines, same
tires and many overtakings. It´s like a faster F3.. :clap:



Guess what? We have F3 for that this is (was?) F1. I loved to see the BMW rack up 22k rpm. The Honda's going into nuclear meltdown, etc. Now everyone is limited to 18k rpm and it sucks.

#1074 ImDDAA

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 13:53

Hey, Lewis Hamilton, my favourite driver, is on pole and I still hate these tyres.

#1075 sharo

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:13

Hey, Lewis Hamilton, my favourite driver, is on pole and I still hate these tyres.

There's a probability you gonna hate them even more tomorrow. Or love them. It's lottery.
:)

#1076 JV97

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 14:28

You can just tell the teams hate these tyres.

They all come out stoney faced with the same PR line 'they are a challenge. They are the same for everyone'. Clearly the drivers mostly don't like them and it's got to be at least 50/50 with the fans. No doubt they've insisted that people toe the line. Very damaging to their brand if people thought these tyre issues were down to Pirelli and not the fault of the teams & FIA (tm Paul Hembrey)

If Pirelli changed the tyres to degrade fairly gradually upto a cliff then I don't see it making much of a difference to the spectacle but more would be happy as drivers were able to make the difference and rag it. Maximum attack.

Drivers not coming out on track, masses of marbles everywhere, saving tyres for the race and every conversation starts with 'the tyres' in one form or another. It's not great folks is it?

That piece Sky did on Gilles. A reminder of what a sport F1 should be. Pirelli can stick that 'entertainment' comment up their arse. That's their carte blanche for covering up the fact they've got the tyres too far to one extreme.

#1077 zelpre

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:25

Why is this topic closed? http://forums.autosp...howtopic=155428 ?

Anyways, those who doesn't like the current F1 with these sh!t tyres, sign the petition here:
http://www.ipetition...prove-f1-tyres/

#1078 eoin

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:38

It's possible that is true but it's also very possible that it was down to the tyre lottery that we have this season which is the point that I am making. It has become very hard to judge what is going on. A bit of unpredictability is what makes sport interesting but constant unpredictability gets dull, and fast. We aren't there yet but if all I hear about is tyres, tyres, tyres for the next couple of races then I will probably start to voluntarily skip races- something that hasn't happened since mid 1995.


Think I have had enough of F1 in 2012. Williams has now developed the best car in F1? BS. Every race is just a tyre lottery.

#1079 fieraku

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:27

So WTF is this?????30 laps of tyre saving. :down:

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#1080 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:57

So WTF is this?????30 laps of tyre saving. :down:


Welcome to a team hopeless lost in how to use a tire.. pretty hard to go racing when you don't know how a rubber compound on a rotating rim works.

#1081 Birelman

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:03

I thought that squeezing last 2-3 tenths of the laptime is what F1 is about?
Kimi fans. It is not him ,it is the car. Since when you like grandma driving? What you will propose latter , tyre psychiatrist? To help stressed tyres? What about stressed brake disks, brake pads? To worry about them too? For springs , for shock absorbers? Lets not stress them.

The thing is Ivan, that some drivers can extract precisely those 2,3 extra tenths while still preserving enough, it's always been that way, and for a long time it was a lost art. It's not as stupid as some of you try to make it out to be. Yeah, these tires do degrade too fast, but it's the same for everyone. I personally would like it if they lasted about double what they do, but, this is what we got, and it's better than anytime during the re-fueling era

#1082 fieraku

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:25

So are we still crazy calling F1 "FAKE"? Today a Williams lapped a Red Bull a Ferrari and came close to lapping a McLaren and a Mercedes.

All 4 race winners this season.A freaking Williams :wave: who the closest they have been to the front is +30 seconds? Now suddenly they're lapping people?

:drunk:

Williams is this week's lucky winner.



My feelings after Quali.

So is the lottery.This is the very first time that I don't feel sh**,numbness, for an F1 race. It will be another Pirelli Sweepstakes.


And Friday.I say that it is spot on.

Edited by fieraku, 13 May 2012 - 17:30.


#1083 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:30

So are we still crazy calling F1 "FAKE"? Today a Williams lapped a Red Bull a Ferrari and came close to lapping a McLaren and a Mercedes.

All 4 race winners this season.A freaking Williams :wave: who the closest they have been to the front is +30 seconds? Now suddenly they're lapping people?






My feelings after Quali.


So I suppose you are expecting us all to ignore that the "freaking Williams" that won this race started from pole position? :rolleyes:

#1084 fieraku

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:41

So I suppose you are expecting us all to ignore that the "freaking Williams" that won this race started from pole position? :rolleyes:


I posted this before PM was even dreaming of pole,let alone a win.On Friday ;)

So is the lottery.This is the very first time that I don't feel sh**,numbness, for an F1 race. It will be another Pirelli Sweepstakes.


Then on Saturday...

:drunk:

Williams is this week's lucky winner.


I expect next race they'll go back to the midfield and expect Sahara to come up,it's their turn now.You couldn't script this if you wanted to.
Perez was the big thing not 3 races ago,now everyone has forgotten him,the new big thing just showed up,next is Di Resta I guarantee it.
All hail the (freak)SHOW :stoned:

#1085 Kvothe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:43

Mark Webber had some very heavy criticism of Pirelli in his BBC interview.

#1086 RealRacing

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:47

What about DRS? How many of you were thinking how sad it would have been if FA had been able to close enough on PM and just blow past him with DRS? There would have been absolutely no fight for the lead. And, of course, PM would not have been able to counter-attack because of the tyres.

We should try to find all the transcripts of radio comm. from this race and see what percentage were about, "save tyres". I counted at least 3 for Maldonado...

#1087 fieraku

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:56

We should try to find all the transcripts of radio comm. from this race and see what percentage were about, "save tyres". I counted at least 3 for Maldonado...


Around mid race? And there were plenty more,actually the whole McLaren radio com was tires,tires,tires.
[bottom to top]


Pit » Hamilton: "Excellent. That's good to know."

Hamilton: "I'm saving tyres."

Pit » Hamilton: "This pace is okay for now."

Hamilton: "Please let me know if the pace I'm doing is acceptable."

#1088 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:00

Lookup lap 55 onboard Alonso. He is cruising. Where is the Webber interview? I'd love to see it!

#1089 greenman

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:03

One thing - Maldonado started from pole. He was faster on one lap than anybody else, apart Hamilton. How has this anything to do with tyres being highly degradable?

#1090 JensonWDC

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:04

Another winner for Mr. Hembery. Hope we get another for Monaco, and the race after and the race after and... :clap:
Imagine if we have 20 different winners in a season :eek:

#1091 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:18

One thing - Maldonado started from pole. He was faster on one lap than anybody else, apart Hamilton. How has this anything to do with tyres being highly degradable?


It was a copy-paste of Rosberg's win. Anyone with free air(mostly the frontrunner nowadays) in front has an advantage. First stint he can pull out a a good gap, and than all he has to do is manage the gap and the tyres, because it is not possible to push with these tyres. Alonso gave up today too, because if he pushed enough to catch PM, and pushed enough for the overtake, he destroys the tyres, and gets caught by everybody from behind, for instance like KR a few weeks ago..

Webber"s words:

"Then when you're out of position round here, you have to do the longest range stop possible and look after your tyres, and then when you catch people, the tyres just get killed. It's chicken and egg. If you push past them, you've got to pit earlier and commit to another stop".

How can anybody not call this a farce?

Edited by Szoelloe, 13 May 2012 - 18:19.


#1092 PretentiousBread

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:21

Around mid race? And there were plenty more,actually the whole McLaren radio com was tires,tires,tires.
[bottom to top]


Pit » Hamilton: "Excellent. That's good to know."

Hamilton: "I'm saving tyres."

Pit » Hamilton: "This pace is okay for now."

Hamilton: "Please let me know if the pace I'm doing is acceptable."


:lol:

:down:

#1093 smoothcrim

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:21

I wouldnt be surprised if HRT find the sweet spot at Monaco and karthekyan gets a podium.

#1094 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:23

I wouldnt be surprised if HRT find the sweet spot at Monaco and karthekyan gets a podium.


Yeah, well that is when Hembrey will grow another set of wings and ascend again.


#1095 JensonWDC

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:26

I wouldnt be surprised if HRT find the sweet spot at Monaco and karthekyan gets a podium.


Well, Vettel joked we might see Timo Glock on pole at Monaco. So far he´s joking...

#1096 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:26

It was a copy-paste of Rosberg's win. Anyone with free air(mostly the frontrunner nowadays) in front has an advantage. First stint he can pull out a a good gap, and than all he has to do is manage the gap and the tyres, because it is not possible to push with these tyres. Alonso gave up today too, because if he pushed enough to catch PM, and pushed enough for the overtake, he destroys the tyres, and gets caught by everybody from behind, for instance like KR a few weeks ago..

Webber"s words:

"Then when you're out of position round here, you have to do the longest range stop possible and look after your tyres, and then when you catch people, the tyres just get killed. It's chicken and egg. If you push past them, you've got to pit earlier and commit to another stop".

How can anybody not call this a farce?


Oh so you can't drop out of FOTA and out of the RRA and spend a ton of cash and blow everyone away anymore? You have to actually get your car setup right? Yeah what a farce! Oh you mean you can't have bespoke Bridgestone made for your car even though Bridgestone is supposed to be supplying everyone good tires and turn F1 into a parade for 5 years in a row anymore? Yeah this really sucks! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#1097 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:27

Well, Vettel joked we might see Timo Glock on pole at Monaco. So far he´s joking...


You're kidding me, when?


#1098 PretentiousBread

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:27

Mark Webber had some very heavy criticism of Pirelli in his BBC interview.


Nice one :up:

Did you hear Brundle before the show started? He mentioned again about his conversation he had with one of the drivers on how rubbish the tyres are - the one who said about his granny being able to drive the car (almost certainly Webber) - and then went on to say that he heard the same driver coming out defending the tyres later "because he had to tow the corporate line". Brundle has been Pirelli's biggest advocate but even he can see the major downsides of them.

Edited by PretentiousBread, 13 May 2012 - 18:34.


#1099 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:28

RTL pre-race? And he was only half-joking.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 May 2012 - 18:28.


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#1100 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 18:33

Oh so you can't drop out of FOTA and out of the RRA and spend a ton of cash and blow everyone away anymore? You have to actually get your car setup right? Yeah what a farce! Oh you mean you can't have bespoke Bridgestone made for your car even though Bridgestone is supposed to be supplying everyone good tires and turn F1 into a parade for 5 years in a row anymore? Yeah this really sucks! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Get off my back kid, who the hell spoke a word about Bridgestone? Please quote me? I have already said several times I have no problem with the degradation concept, or the two compounds, and I don't want BS back at all. I will not repeat myself, so try the search function before you speak BS, maybe pulling your head out of your behind helps too. Sorry for the offence, but yes, its disgusting to see.