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Rosberg "F1 is a complete different sport this days"


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#101 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:48

F1 is so optimized now that the drivers would be taking care of their tires no matter who manufactured them.

If Pirelli produced concrete tires then they would be shredded too.


What are you talking about? These cars are substantially slower than 2010, where they could push an awful lot on the Bridgestones. They would always need to 'look after' their tyres no matter what the compound, but not in the manner of today where all they do is look after them and drive to a delta lap time as Schumacher has revealed (or should I say confirmed).

Edited by PretentiousBread, 22 April 2012 - 16:49.


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#102 BiH

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:50

F1 is so optimized now that the drivers would be taking care of their tires no matter who manufactured them.

If Pirelli produced concrete tires then they would be shredded too.


no they wouldn't

just think of this

start race with 150KG of fuel

finish race lapping more or less same lap times as first stint of race



#103 Atreiu

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:51

These tyres are crap.

#104 Jamiednm

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:53

While it is a lottery at the moment, the teams will get a handle on them sooner rather than later. It won't be a lottery for many more races, and teams will find ways of pushing them harder for longer. The same happened in 2011, though I agree that the tyres are too big a factor right now.

I think if I were a technical boss at McLaren, Red Bull or Lotus, I'd be forgetting about Double DRS and just develop the hell out of the cars traction and suspension.



#105 MidKnight

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:54

It's the same for everyone...this sounds a lot like my driver had a bad race so it's the tires fault... :down:

#106 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:55

While it is a lottery at the moment, the teams will get a handle on them sooner rather than later. It won't be a lottery for many more races, and teams will find ways of pushing them harder for longer. The same happened in 2011, though I agree that the tyres are too big a factor right now.

I think if I were a technical boss at McLaren, Red Bull or Lotus, I'd be forgetting about Double DRS and just develop the hell out of the cars traction and suspension.


I'm not so sure about that, there's literally no constancy to any teams performance, I don't see how they'll understand the tyres for a while yet.

#107 JV97

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:56

People are always complaining, they hated the conservative Bridgestone, they loved the crazy Pirelli's, now they hate it because it might not suit their favorite driver. Stop moaning, the situation is the same for everyone, it's not fake, if you're burning trough your tyres it's either the fault of the car or the driver, in one case the team should work on solving the problem, in the other case the driver should, pretty straight forward.


How do you not get this?

It's not about people 'burning through their tyres'. It's the fact that they are rarely even close to being on the limit because of the nature of the tyres yet they still degrade.

And it's nothing to do with drivers. Even I'd happily watch Schumacher win in a proper fight and not successfully driving with limited parameters.

#108 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:59

I can see how its fun for everyone not knowing what to expect in a race now. However i dont think its how a championship or races should be won. May as well call it the Pirelli Lottery race. As thats what the race weekends have been.


#109 MidKnight

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:00

How do you not get this?

It's not about people 'burning through their tyres'. It's the fact that they are rarely even close to being on the limit because of the nature of the tyres yet they still degrade.

And it's nothing to do with drivers. Even I'd happily watch Schumacher win in a proper fight and not successfully driving with limited parameters.


But you are all complaining about a very hot race with very abrasive surface...as if every race is going to be like this...

#110 Wander

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:00

I think these tires but without DRS will not be as bad.


Or perhaps DRS, but without these tyres?

#111 Juan Kerr

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:01

Both Rosberg and Schumacher were interviewed by the german TV about the tyres after the Bahrain GP and Schumacher was not happy, he was very frustrated. He said it's not fun to drive with tyres like this and Lauda said he understands him because it's not fun for any driver to drive slow just because of the tyres.

Rosberg also said that it's simply not possible to drive on the limit at any time, they have to nurse the tyres since the start of the race. He said F1 it's a complete different sport this days.

I post this because some people are still saying that drivers are still pushing 100% until the tyres don't start to wear off but well now it's confirmed by Schumacher and Rosberg that they don't drive on limit at any time of the race, sometimes they drive only at 60-70%

The trouble is that everyone has forgot the most important thing, if you mess with something and spoil the natural evolution it always ruins it. They're trying to be clever as per usual artificially creating a show but of course the whole point was who is the fastest driver, after that of course you have who is the fastest car and they normally go hand in hand as long as there is consistency.
They should accept the fact that they've gone back to full fuel and then let the drivers have decent tyres.

#112 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:01

But you are all complaining about a very hot race with very abrasive surface...as if every race is going to be like this...


When it's not, they just bring even less durable compounds. It's all about 'the show'.

#113 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:01

DRS, KERS, and the equivalent of 2010 Bridgestones is the way forward.

#114 Mauseri

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:02

It is really is a joke. Refuelling was a lot better in my eyes also.

Merely mentioning refuelling makes me puke.

#115 sharo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:03

I can see how its fun for everyone not knowing what to expect in a race now. However i dont think its how a championship or races should be won. May as well call it the Pirelli Lottery race. As thats what the race weekends have been.

I think the name could well be changed to Formula One Nursing.

#116 miniq

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:04

Bring back refueling and bridgestone tyres.

#117 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:04

DRS, KERS, and the equivalent of 2010 Bridgestones is the way forward.


I'm broadly in agreement but if they could combine the element of driving on the edge with tyres that don't last forever it'd be much better and more of a genuine contest instead of the stupid free-for-all that Pirelli are currently providing.

#118 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:05

I'm torn between the two evils. The Bridgestone days might have been a better sport and a fairer display of every team's speed and the drivers within that. On the other hand some of the processions were absolute mayhem to watch.

#119 Alfisti

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:05

The amount of misinformation here is beyond a joke. The current tyres are not ideal but ......

- They are exactly what was asked of pirelli so they have delivered

- In refuelling/tyre war era the races were BORING. Incredibly boring. Virtually no on track passing at all. It was comical.

- In addition, teams would turn up with cars that would otherwise be close but tyre A is smacking tyre B at said race track and the CChip combatants never meet on track. So the points are tight but race to race the best cars rarely met.

- Worse is if a tyre is better all season (2005 michelin's anyone?)

- The Bridgestone era was terrible, hard as a rock tyres, no passing at all

- Those saying tyres were never a big part of F1, dear me, I have been following since 94 and ALL I HEAR EACH AND EVERY YEAR in TYRES TYRES TYRES without bloody fail, maybe with exception of the bridgestone hard era.

There may be a better solution to what we have now but anyone looking back fondly is absolutely kidding themselves.

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#120 BiH

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:08

^^^^^^^^

all of your points fail because there was no DRS

Edited by BiH, 22 April 2012 - 17:08.


#121 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:08

I'm broadly in agreement but if they could combine the element of driving on the edge with tyres that don't last forever it'd be much better and more of a genuine contest instead of the stupid free-for-all that Pirelli are currently providing.


We probably need a mid point between what we have now and what we had then, maybe slightly more towards the 2010 spec though.

#122 bmardini

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:09

They made these funky tires to improve the "show", because of lack of overtaking in 2010.

But, they also added DRS. So they don't need these fragile tires

With DRS, the following car can PUSH to within 1s and then use the added top speed

So make good tires and keep drs

Or drop drs and keep these tires.

#123 repete

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:10

I rather enjoy the Pirelli tires. I would rather see DRS and KERS go away than the tires.

#124 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:11

Paul Di Resta was not racing today. He was merely cruising himself to the finishing line on as few tires as possible. Chasing or defending positions wasn't even on the cards.

Like wise Kimi completely gamed the system by discounting Q3 for near unlimited sets of tyres for the race.


The Pirelli tyres are a joke.

#125 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:11

They made these funky tires to improve the "show", because of lack of overtaking in 2010.

But, they also added DRS. So they don't need these fragile tires

With DRS, the following car can PUSH to within 1s and then use the added top speed

So make good tires and keep drs

Or drop drs and keep these tires.


dropping DRS and keeping these tyres will make F1 even more of a joke. You'd literally be behind someone for 2/3 laps, overheat your tyres and never get them back. No overtaking what so ever. At least DRS gives people a chance.

#126 SvenF1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:12

no they wouldn't

just think of this

start race with 150KG of fuel

finish race lapping more or less same lap times as first stint of race


What? They were lapping 1:42 and 1:43 at the start, towards the end 1:36 and 1:37 with worn tires. More or less the same lap times? :drunk:

#127 Kvothe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:13

Damning comments by Schumacher on the BBC:

Compared it to driving behind the safety car, and says 90% of drivers feel the same.

#128 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:13

Schumacher on the BBC, absolutely lamblasts the Pirelli's. Calls it akin to driving behind the safety car. :clap: The tyres are bogus and anybody defending these tyres must have just recently gone through a lobotomy. :drunk:

#129 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:14

Just saw Michael on BBC saying how terrible the tyres are, saying is 80/90% of drivers complain maybe pirelli will have to listen.

#130 iotar

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:14

To summarize:

My favourite team/driver is not winning - bad tyres are to blame :cry: :cry: Hamilton used to win with Bridgestones - bring them back he'll start winning again :cry: :cry: No!

If the tyres have narrow operating window - make a car, make a set up that works best with that.

Bring back Bridgestones and refuelling? Don't make me laugh. There was little about racing with sprints to pitstops and limited strategy games. It was a f... time trial. Good old times - either McL or Ferr 15 s in front depending on the circuit. What about traction control, pretty artificial wasn't it? No good old days. At least now there's a human factor involved: how you cope with less grip, traction and changeable conditions. See Vettel Canada 2011. Now there's more 'driver to driver' racing.

Randomness of the current tyres is grossly exaggerated: see Mercedes, too hot in Australia, too cold in Malaysia, compromise in China and results. Long straight and leading from pole helped them, nothing of that sort in Bahrain and whining starts. It's not a black magic, and as the season goes on there will be less and less mysteries, just like last year.



#131 smoothcrim

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:14

The amount of misinformation here is beyond a joke. The current tyres are not ideal but ......

- They are exactly what was asked of pirelli so they have delivered

- In refuelling/tyre war era the races were BORING. Incredibly boring. Virtually no on track passing at all. It was comical.

- In addition, teams would turn up with cars that would otherwise be close but tyre A is smacking tyre B at said race track and the CChip combatants never meet on track. So the points are tight but race to race the best cars rarely met.

- Worse is if a tyre is better all season (2005 michelin's anyone?)

- The Bridgestone era was terrible, hard as a rock tyres, no passing at all

- Those saying tyres were never a big part of F1, dear me, I have been following since 94 and ALL I HEAR EACH AND EVERY YEAR in TYRES TYRES TYRES without bloody fail, maybe with exception of the bridgestone hard era.

There may be a better solution to what we have now but anyone looking back fondly is absolutely kidding themselves.


Couldnt agree more,ive been following F1 since '86 and the racing the last 2 years has been the best i have ever seen.

No matter what tyres or what rules,the teams with the best cars and best drivers always rise to the top.Tyres have decided many championships,tyre management is nothing new.

Come next race the same people will be saying the "hard" tyre was to durable.

Edited by smoothcrim, 22 April 2012 - 17:17.


#132 Kvothe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:15

To summarize:

My favourite team/driver is not winning - bad tyres are to blame :cry: :cry: Hamilton used to win with Bridgestones - bring them back he'll start winning again :cry: :cry: No!

If the tyres have narrow operating window - make a car, make a set up that works best with that.

Bring back Bridgestones and refuelling? Don't make me laugh. There was little about racing with sprints to pitstops and limited strategy games. It was a f... time trial. Good old times - either McL or Ferr 15 s in front depending on the circuit. What about traction control, pretty artificial wasn't it? No good old days. At least now there's a human factor involved: how you cope with less grip, traction and changeable conditions. See Vettel Canada 2011. Now there's more 'driver to driver' racing.

Randomness of the current tyres is grossly exaggerated: see Mercedes, too hot in Australia, too cold in Malaysia, compromise in China and results. Long straight and leading from pole helped them, nothing of that sort in Bahrain and whining starts. It's not a black magic, and as the season goes on there will be less and less mysteries, just like last year.


Damn that Schumacher, such a Lewis fanboy!

#133 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:16

I'm so disillusioned with the tyres - watching everyone coasting around with a modest and prescribed amount of lap time possible from any set of tyres, the drivers are just handcuffed as to what they can do. A performance like Hamilton at Istanbul in GP2 would be simply impossible because of the tyres, they couldn't take it. If anyone had the speed/will to do this nowadays they would end up having to pit extremely early and tumble down the order, this is why the tyres are anti-racing. Watch this and then just think about these tyres.


Edited by PretentiousBread, 22 April 2012 - 17:18.


#134 sharo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:17

I'm torn between the two evils. The Bridgestone days might have been a better sport and a fairer display of every team's speed and the drivers within that. On the other hand some of the processions were absolute mayhem to watch.

The procession is still on, but at closer distances. Drivers within 1-3s are not able to attack because one position gained most probably will result in 5 lost soon after that.

#135 windtravels

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:17

Damn that Schumacher, such a Lewis fanboy!



haha. perfect answer.

#136 FenderJaguar

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:24

so Mercedes want better tires for their car, can't blame them but it would be nicer to just say so instead of talking of cruising. Today was another epic race.

#137 King Six

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:26

To summarize:

My favourite team/driver is not winning - bad tyres are to blame :cry: :cry: Hamilton used to win with Bridgestones - bring them back he'll start winning again :cry: :cry: No!

If the tyres have narrow operating window - make a car, make a set up that works best with that.

Bring back Bridgestones and refuelling? Don't make me laugh. There was little about racing with sprints to pitstops and limited strategy games. It was a f... time trial. Good old times - either McL or Ferr 15 s in front depending on the circuit. What about traction control, pretty artificial wasn't it? No good old days. At least now there's a human factor involved: how you cope with less grip, traction and changeable conditions. See Vettel Canada 2011. Now there's more 'driver to driver' racing.

Randomness of the current tyres is grossly exaggerated: see Mercedes, too hot in Australia, too cold in Malaysia, compromise in China and results. Long straight and leading from pole helped them, nothing of that sort in Bahrain and whining starts. It's not a black magic, and as the season goes on there will be less and less mysteries, just like last year.

You're fighting a losing battle, people are going to complain no matter what. But yes, people are simply upset that their driver isn't doing well. I heard nothing of these complaints in any other race this season.

Right now is giving F1 the best races and championship combined. Also the factor of teams not fully learning the tyres yet helps. Watch by the end of the season, races will become more processional again, kind of like India last year, when the teams had figured nearly everything out. It's just a learning process.


#138 windtravels

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:28

what i really didnt like today was it seemed kimi could only have one go at passing vettel, before having to give up and settle for second.

really dont want tyres that are so marginal we dont see proper drawn out battles for position.

#139 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:28

Umm, Pirelli have been asked to make tyres like this, do't blame them.

I wish more people in the board would realise this before slagging of Pirelli. They've done what has been asked of them.

I dislike the way the sport is at the minute too, but people shouldnt go blaming Pirelli for doing their job.

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#140 smoothcrim

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:29

http://www.motorspor...-after-bahrain/

British commentator Martin Brundle said the Italian marque's heavily-degrading 2012 product, so difficult to keep alive and in the narrow performance 'window', is overly dominating the season so far.
Also critical after Bahrain, where tyre performance fell away rapidly in the desert heat, was Michael Schumacher, who told reporters he wanted to talk with Pirelli chiefs about how to improve the situation.
Faced with that sort of criticism on Sunday, Pirelli's motor sport director Paul Hembery said on Twitter: "At the end of last year we had huge criticism for conservative choices and races were boring.
"Make your mind up. We are doing what is asked."
Hembery also argued that how teams tackle their tyre strategies will continue to play a big role for only "a few more races, then like last year all change as they get used (to the tyres)".



#141 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:30

Has anyone got a video of Schumi's interview?

#142 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:30

Schumacher on the BBC, absolutely lamblasts the Pirelli's. Calls it akin to driving behind the safety car. :clap: The tyres are bogus and anybody defending these tyres must have just recently gone through a lobotomy. :drunk:

It feels good for you,I and some of the other most outspoken Pirelli 'haters' being backed by a 7time WDC.
Vindicating!

Schu :up: :up: :up: thank you for saying what I have been for over a year,heck half my posts have "Pirelli" in em :lol:

#occupyPirelli

#143 karlth

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:31

What are you talking about? These cars are substantially slower than 2010, where they could push an awful lot on the Bridgestones.


In today's F1 it doesn't matter if the tires are made of rubber, concrete or marzipan. A car that finishes with performance still left on its tire is a car that hasn't been driven to its optimal performance.


#144 King Six

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:31

what i really didnt like today was it seemed kimi could only have one go at passing vettel, before having to give up and settle for second.

really dont want tyres that are so marginal we dont see proper drawn out battles for position.

He was catching Vettel because of the tyres in the first place. For the second stint his tyres were in better shape. We saw in the third stint that the RBR's true pace came to light with fresh tyres (and Lotus had fresh tyres too) and it pulled ahead. You have to look at it both ways I'm afraid.

If Lotus had better outright pace then maybe they could have held onto Red Bull in the third stint, but obviously they have some way to go before they catch RBR on pure outright pace. Rather than strategic pace.

#145 Fonzey

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:33

How much testing time do Pirelli get on each circuit? I certainly want more durable tyres and I want drivers to push harder lap after lap, the fact we've got drivers skipping Q3 (and even Q2 in some cases) is stupid and embarrasing.

I would like more focus on the choice though between Option and Prime, there shouldn't be a "best tyre" for a track IMO - there should be a worthwhile costing to selecting each tyre. If Pirelli got more track time then perhaps they could accurately produce Option and Prime choices which would allow for a 2stop vs a 1stop in roughly the same simulated time.... but I don't want the 1stoppers to be nursing "cliffed" at the end, I want them to be using harder compound tyres which are just natively slower around the race track.

The current Pirelli's could probably provide the above scenario, but without significant track time at each circuit it must be mostly guesswork when selecting the option and prime tyres - throw in the sensitivity to track temp and unpredicatable weather and the whole thing just falls apart.


#146 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:37

In today's F1 it doesn't matter if the tires are made of rubber, concrete or marzipan. A car that finishes with performance still left on its tire is a car that hasn't been driven to its optimal performance.


But clearly one material can last longer at optimal performance than another.. that's the issue.

#147 Dunder

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:39

Damning comments by Schumacher on the BBC:

Compared it to driving behind the safety car, and says 90% of drivers feel the same.


Interesting!
Pleased to see one of these drones (and that includes the Team Principals) speaking their mind even though it won't change anything.


#148 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:39

I'm so disillusioned with the tyres - watching everyone coasting around with a modest and prescribed amount of lap time possible from any set of tyres, the drivers are just handcuffed as to what they can do. A performance like Hamilton at Istanbul in GP2 would be simply impossible because of the tyres, they couldn't take it. If anyone had the speed/will to do this nowadays they would end up having to pit extremely early and tumble down the order, this is why the tyres are anti-racing. Watch this and then just think about these tyres.


Yep, THAT is real racing, not these garbage tires and push to pass button.

If anyone tried to race that hard with Pirelli, the tires would fall apart in 4-5 laps.

#149 muramasa

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:41


I say this everywhere, but what's wrong is the car, not tyres.

Bridgestone tyres was right and "natural" direction for tyre to evolve. Long lasting, reliable and withstand hard use. Pirrelli or any manufacturers can make such tyres.


Make the car that dont need gimmicks such as DRS and degrading tyres, the car that can "race" on Bridgestone-like tyres.
It's mainly aero that needs whole revision.



#150 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:41

Yep, THAT is real racing, not these garbage tires and push to pass button.

If anyone tried to race that hard with Pirelli, the tires would fall apart in 4-5 laps.


Don't flatter them. :)