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Rosberg "F1 is a complete different sport this days"


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#151 blackonyx4

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:44

Once upon a time, the mechanical reliability in F1 was so bad that virtually no one pushed their cars to the limit, they were nursing them from the moment of green light, but mythology is a funny thing...

I really liked it when backmarkers like AGS, Osella or Minardi scored some points here and there, purely because of the above mentioned reason. The Pirelli tyres in the couple of season washed away all those boredom in F1 in the last decade or two and I thank them for that. I surely don't miss watching Schumacher in his utterly dominant cars pushing for one lap and cruising the rest of the race.

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#152 karlth

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:44

But clearly one material can last longer at optimal performance than another.. that's the issue.


Only if using more of the tire, on a single lap, results in a worse laptime.

#153 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:45

To summarize:

My favourite team/driver is not winning - bad tyres are to blame :cry: :cry: Hamilton used to win with Bridgestones - bring them back he'll start winning again :cry: :cry: No!

If the tyres have narrow operating window - make a car, make a set up that works best with that.

Bring back Bridgestones and refuelling? Don't make me laugh. There was little about racing with sprints to pitstops and limited strategy games. It was a f... time trial. Good old times - either McL or Ferr 15 s in front depending on the circuit. What about traction control, pretty artificial wasn't it? No good old days. At least now there's a human factor involved: how you cope with less grip, traction and changeable conditions. See Vettel Canada 2011. Now there's more 'driver to driver' racing.

Randomness of the current tyres is grossly exaggerated: see Mercedes, too hot in Australia, too cold in Malaysia, compromise in China and results. Long straight and leading from pole helped them, nothing of that sort in Bahrain and whining starts. It's not a black magic, and as the season goes on there will be less and less mysteries, just like last year.


You are an idiot if you honestly believe what you have written. It is you with the blinkers on my friend. :rolleyes: Myself and many others were vocally complaining when Hamilton was ahead of Button last season. So your accusation is totally without merit. It was obvious to anybody with an IQ of 80+, what kind of these tyres were and the type of racing we was going to be subjected to. It was only blind fanboyism that prevented a select minority from admitting the obvious. There is no racing and hasn't been since Pirelli entered the sport. It's been racing to a target delta time in the f**king hope of keeping your tyres in optimum condition. THAT IS IT! No amount of spin, or obfuscation can hide this damning fact. It is your own biases preventing you from seeing the bigger picture and supporting one driver instead of another has absolutely nothing to do with it.

#154 karlth

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:48

I say this everywhere, but what's wrong is the car, not tyres.

Bridgestone tyres was right and "natural" direction for tyre to evolve. Long lasting, reliable and withstand hard use. Pirrelli or any manufacturers can make such tyres.


Make the car that dont need gimmicks such as DRS and degrading tyres, the car that can "race" on Bridgestone-like tyres.


Take a look at single car series like GP2 or F3. They race mostly with "friendly" tires and yet they fail to produce a better show than F1. A large part of the problem with F1 is that everything is so optimized. The drivers hardly make mistakes and neither to the engineers or non-McLaren pitcrews.


#155 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:48

Yep, THAT is real racing, not these garbage tires and push to pass button.

If anyone tried to race that hard with Pirelli, the tires would fall apart in 4-5 laps.


Indeed, we already have a good example:



#156 George Costanza

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:49

Bring back the 1990s regulations (V10, V12) along with slicks; with seasons such as the 1997 season, which had a lot of memorable races from Schumacher and the rest.

Edited by George Costanza, 22 April 2012 - 17:50.


#157 Timstr11

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:50

From a spectators perspective, I like the racing that these tyres have produced a lot.

But I do see the driver's perspective as well.
I can imagine it's very counter intuitive for a driver to not drive to the limit, only so the tyres last 3 or 4 laps longer.


#158 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:51

Once upon a time, the mechanical reliability in F1 was so bad that virtually no one pushed their cars to the limit, they were nursing them from the moment of green light, but mythology is a funny thing...

I really liked it when backmarkers like AGS, Osella or Minardi scored some points here and there, purely because of the above mentioned reason. The Pirelli tyres in the couple of season washed away all those boredom in F1 in the last decade or two and I thank them for that. I surely don't miss watching Schumacher in his utterly dominant cars pushing for one lap and cruising the rest of the race.


That's what they're all doing now.

#159 magicon

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:53

racing wasnt any better with the bridgestones that lasted the whole race. nobody really 'pushed' any faster. Once they understand how the tires work the strange see-saw will reduce.

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#160 fieraku

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:54


Once upon a time, the mechanical reliability in F1 was so bad that virtually no one pushed their cars to the limit, they were nursing them from the moment of green light, but mythology is a funny thing...


I really liked it when backmarkers like AGS, Osella or Minardi scored some points here and there, purely because of the above mentioned reason. The Pirelli tyres in the couple of season washed away all those boredom in F1 in the last decade or two and I thank them for that. I surely don't miss watching Schumacher in his utterly dominant cars pushing for one lap and cruising the rest of the race.


Huh? :drunk: Through the 90s and 00s it was common that half the grid did not finish because they WERE pushing and stressing the cars thus all the blown engines,gear boxes and brake failures.
Lap times were light speed faster compared to now where races are 6-7 minutes slower. Minutes :wave:

#161 quasi C

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:55

Whilst I agree with all the points made here, it's still better than some of the terrible, boring seasons we had in the mid 2000's. It was embarassing to watch races with people who didn't follow the sport and see them try and remain enthusiastic whilst absolutely sweet FA happened on track.

It was only the off track controversy that kept things interesting.

Edited by quasi C, 22 April 2012 - 17:57.


#162 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:56

racing wasnt any better with the bridgestones that lasted the whole race. nobody really 'pushed' any faster. Once they understand how the tires work the strange see-saw will reduce.


Sorry, but that isn't true. After his first time driving on Pirellis, this is what Hamilton had to say:

"It's very strange.....even compared to last year, when we had heavy fuel and you had to drive it a little easier at the beginning of the race to preserve the tyres. The tyres just go away so fast and there's nothing you can do about it. I didn't feel like I was really racing the car." and in a separate interview "it's not racing, it's just driving around."




#163 bmardini

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:56

Yep, THAT is real racing, not these garbage tires and push to pass button.

If anyone tried to race that hard with Pirelli, the tires would fall apart in 4-5 laps.


I think thats accurate. If Pirelli could make a tire that you could go flat out on for 10 laps, and then started degrading at a second a lap that would be fine.

but it sucks like this. The car that leads into the 1st corner has such a HUGE advantage (clear air), its ridiculous. The following car doesn't dare subject the fronts to the inevitable slipping due to reduced-downforce-induced understeer.

I remember Fernando in Bahrain 2009 being half unconscious at the end of the race due to exhaustion (water bottle broke). Lots of drivers would come out of the car looking like they'd just gone 12 rounds with a heavyweight. Now they look positively fresh.

I don't blame Pirelli. I blame the idiots who told them to make these tires.

#164 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:56

:up: Schumacher!
I wish more of them could speak out in public, to put some pressure on Pirelli.

#165 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:02

Whilst I agree with all the points made here, it's still better than some of the absolutely terrible, boring seasons we had in the mid 2000's. It was embarassing to watch races with people who didn't follow the sport and see them try and remain enthusiastic whilst absolutely sweet FA happened on track.

It was only the off track controversy that kept things interesting.


I agree with you, some races pre-Pirelli were so without incident it made me wonder how on earth it was such a popular sport, but the current era just isn't the solution. We've known for a long time it's the aero sensitivity of the cars that makes the racing so difficult. This is just a band-aid solution, like the DRS. It pleases the masses, like WWE. Actually, it's more akin to a heavy-weight title bout, only with gigantic, soft sponge gloves.

I would take duller racing so long as it's genuine racing.

#166 wepmob2000

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:06

To summarize:

My favourite team/driver is not winning - bad tyres are to blame :cry: :cry: Hamilton used to win with Bridgestones - bring them back he'll start winning again :cry: :cry: No!

If the tyres have narrow operating window - make a car, make a set up that works best with that.

Bring back Bridgestones and refuelling? Don't make me laugh. There was little about racing with sprints to pitstops and limited strategy games. It was a f... time trial. Good old times - either McL or Ferr 15 s in front depending on the circuit. What about traction control, pretty artificial wasn't it? No good old days. At least now there's a human factor involved: how you cope with less grip, traction and changeable conditions. See Vettel Canada 2011. Now there's more 'driver to driver' racing.

Randomness of the current tyres is grossly exaggerated: see Mercedes, too hot in Australia, too cold in Malaysia, compromise in China and results. Long straight and leading from pole helped them, nothing of that sort in Bahrain and whining starts. It's not a black magic, and as the season goes on there will be less and less mysteries, just like last year.


:up: Couldn't have put it better myself. The accusations that the Pirelli tyres are ruining the sport are ludicrous, what ruins it are seasons of tedium with one driver winning everything. This season is genuinely unpredictable and 10x better than the Vettel induced snoozefest of last year.

The same people who bemoan the 'artificiality' of the sport at the moment would be the first to moan if these elements were removed and we returned to the boredom of years like 2002-2004 and 2011. Do you genuinely believe that seasons where one driver completely dominates are better for the sport than 'lottery' seasons....? The FIA has seen that the cars are so reliable and easy to drive now that something (DRS, Pirelli) has to be introduced to help imitate conditions during the sports golden years (1970's-early 1990's).



#167 bauss

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:08

Thank God the drivers have started speaking out

hope we will get more and more to speak out

Pirelli wont be able to take the negative publicity I'm sure

#168 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:08

:up: Couldn't have put it better myself. The accusations that the Pirelli tyres are ruining the sport are ludicrous, what ruins it are seasons of tedium with one driver winning everything. This season is genuinely unpredictable and 10x better than the Vettel induced snoozefest of last year.

The same people who bemoan the 'artificiality' of the sport at the moment would be the first to moan if these elements were removed and we returned to the boredom of years like 2002-2004 and 2011. Do you genuinely believe that seasons where one driver completely dominates are better for the sport than 'lottery' seasons....? The FIA has seen that the cars are so reliable and easy to drive now that something (DRS, Pirelli) has to be introduced to help imitate conditions during the sports golden years (1970's-early 1990's).


It doesn't have to be one or the other, look at 2010 for example. But as i've already said, i'd take genuine flat out racing over 100% tyre preservation even if it does result in less 'exciting action'.

#169 wepmob2000

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:11

I agree with you, some races pre-Pirelli were so without incident it made me wonder how on earth it was such a popular sport, but the current era just isn't the solution. We've known for a long time it's the aero sensitivity of the cars that makes the racing so difficult. This is just a band-aid solution, like the DRS. It pleases the masses, like WWE. Actually, it's more akin to a heavy-weight title bout, only with gigantic, soft sponge gloves.


Its a crying shame the FIA watered down its original proposals for 2014, with emphasis on mechanical grip and a return to ground effect. I like the current form of F1, and am really enjoying this season so far, but better framed rules could remove the need for 'artificial' means to improve the show......



#170 f1fastestlap

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:15

You are an idiot if you honestly believe what you have written. It is you with the blinkers on my friend. :rolleyes: Myself and many others were vocally complaining when Hamilton was ahead of Button last season. So your accusation is totally without merit. It was obvious to anybody with an IQ of 80+, what kind of these tyres were and the type of racing we was going to be subjected to. It was only blind fanboyism that prevented a select minority from admitting the obvious. There is no racing and hasn't been since Pirelli entered the sport. It's been racing to a target delta time in the f**king hope of keeping your tyres in optimum condition. THAT IS IT! No amount of spin, or obfuscation can hide this damning fact. It is your own biases preventing you from seeing the bigger picture and supporting one driver instead of another has absolutely nothing to do with it.

This! :up:

#171 ImDDAA

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:15

If you don't like these tyres pathetic trolls will tell you it's because your driver isn't winning and attempt to shut down any discussion. Children.

#172 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:20

If you don't like these tyres pathetic trolls will tell you it's because your driver isn't winning and attempt to shut down any discussion. Children.


The irony is that most of the ones saying this tend to be fans of drivers who are thriving under the current regs, e.g. Button, Vettel, Perez fans. So who's the more biased?



#173 Roonaldo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:20

Gone are the days of charging through the field with 20 qualifying laps. Sad, I miss that.

Instead we hear of thermal degradation, tyre windows, falling off the cliff. Not good.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey is not F1 I'm afraid.

I really hope some of the drivers come out after these comments and tell it like it is. Screw the PR machine.

#174 Kucki

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:20

:up: Schumacher!
I wish more of them could speak out in public, to put some pressure on Pirelli.


Problem is tho in Formula 1, if you have an opinion and dare to say it, people call you whiney, crying etc. So most drivers think better shut up and only say what your allowed to say.

Schumacher, Senna, Montoya, Villeneuve,... anybody who is outspoken and has an opinion gets quickly shot down by the media and consequently from the fans.

#175 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:22

Gone are the days of charging through the field with 20 qualifying laps. Sad, I miss that.

Instead we hear of thermal degradation, tyre windows, falling off the cliff. Not good.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey is not F1 I'm afraid.

I really hope some of the drivers come out after these comments and tell it like it is. Screw the PR machine.


:up:


#176 tormave

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:22

I personally thought today's was an absolutely stonking race with some cars faster and some slower at different stages and the faster cars could make their way through the field without getting stuck in trains behind the slower ones. Back in the day of ultra-durable tyres someone would go for a 1-stop race and hold back a train of faster cars that simply could not find a way to pass. Just the KERS and the DRS aren't getting this done, there were many passes on other parts of the track today than just on the DRS zone. With those fantastic Bridgestones you could not follow another car within 1 second or all front grip was gone with the car understeering through all corners in dirty air - remember how Alonso trailed behind Petrov throughout an entire race in Abu Dhabi?

Of course it would be great to go back to the GP Legends era sixties with almost no grip in the tyres, no aero grip either, most accidents fatal and very poor brake, engine, gearbox and suspension reliability`across all teams.

It definitely is a different sport than when Schumi dominated by basically driving 20-lap stints of qualifying laps between tyre change and refuelling stops. That time the races were boring as hell. Now they're better.

#177 wepmob2000

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:23

It doesn't have to be one or the other, look at 2010 for example. But as i've already said, i'd take genuine flat out racing over 100% tyre preservation even if it does result in less 'exciting action'.


2010 was a pretty good season admittedly, but something is needed to spice up the racing since todays technology just makes it too easy for one team to dominate ad-nauseum. The random elements that once allowed 'pure' racing to produce exciting racing and diverse winners have disappeared....

-The cars are super reliable - even the mid-90's had races with 10 or less cars finishing

-The drivers have little to do with set-up now - you no longer have 'specialists' at some tracks or just drivers who achieve a really sweet set-up.

-Everything on the car is remotely monitored on the pit-wall, so driver skill and experience count for less

-Wet races really no longer exist in their traditional form, there's limited scope for wet weather aces to make a mark

-The regulations are so tight there's little scope for breakthrough car developments

And so on......



#178 Disgrace

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:23

Well they weren't complaining last week, just crybabys.



#179 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:28

What an original argument. Try again.

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#180 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:28

Just listen to this. And Bahrein wasn't that hot to say it's an exception.

http://www.dailymoti...highlights_auto

Edited by Diablobb81, 22 April 2012 - 18:28.


#181 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:29

Does anyone think if 20 of the 24 drivers complained enough there would be a change?

#182 Brandz07

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:31

Does anyone think if 20 of the 24 drivers complained enough there would be a change?


1 Bernie beats 20 drivers :p

#183 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:32

This politically correct, everyone must be a winner, everything can be exciting BS world, is for idiots and those with their heads stuck in the sand. Some events are a foregone conclusion, it is simply reality. Not everything can be exciting. In some sporting events it is a forgone conclusion who the winner will be long in advance. Changing the rules and playing a joker, does nothing but make it artificial. What should we do for the 100 metres at the London Olympics this year? We all know Usain Bolt will win. Should we handicap him by giving the other runners a head start? No I have a better idea, lets give him shoes that degrade if you run on them flat out and make it a race on shoes, where the winner is determined by the runner who can run fastest without degrading his shoes too much. :drunk: Events are memorable for the simple fact they dont happen all the time. Most football matches are boring. It is only a handfull that are genuinely memorable. F1 racing is in the same boat. How many races in 2011, were as memorable as 2010? Did custard tyres, Kers and DRS make the spectacle any better than 2010? In our lust to be entertained many are asking for contrived races to provide entertainment. This is not the hallmark of a genuine race fan. I watch the UFC and not WWE for a reason. It seems like some people want F1 to go to a WWE style of racing. FFS Bernies short-cut idea is only a few degrees removed from the nonsense tyres Pirelli provide, yet many people are happy with this. :drunk: Thank the gods I still have MOTO GP, where balls to the wall, flat out racing still occurs and we don't have a tyre management exercise. Image the 2012 Qater MOTO 2 race on Pirelli style tyres. I shudder at the thought. :cry:

#184 windtravels

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:32

He was catching Vettel because of the tyres in the first place. For the second stint his tyres were in better shape. We saw in the third stint that the RBR's true pace came to light with fresh tyres (and Lotus had fresh tyres too) and it pulled ahead. You have to look at it both ways I'm afraid.

If Lotus had better outright pace then maybe they could have held onto Red Bull in the third stint, but obviously they have some way to go before they catch RBR on pure outright pace. Rather than strategic pace.


Yep, good point.


#185 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:33

The only thing I don't get is why everyone is coming out of the woodwork in condemnation of these tyres this weekend in particular. It's been like this since the very start of the Pirelli era, yet only a handful of us were complaining about it - I was beginning to think I was crazy saying the things I was saying about them, now all of a sudden I feel completely vindicated. Schumacher and Rosberg have come out and said practically word for word what some of us have been saying for a while now.

#186 ImDDAA

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:33

The irony is that most of the ones saying this tend to be fans of drivers who are thriving under the current regs, e.g. Button, Vettel, Perez fans. So who's the more biased?


Also, people bring up Hamilton, but he won 3 races last year and is currently second in the WDC - it's not like he can't perform well on these tyres either. If Hamilton quits tomorrow my opinion on these tyres doesn't change - I don't like them.

#187 SenorSjon

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:34

2010 was a pretty good season admittedly, but something is needed to spice up the racing since todays technology just makes it too easy for one team to dominate ad-nauseum. The random elements that once allowed 'pure' racing to produce exciting racing and diverse winners have disappeared....

-The cars are super reliable - even the mid-90's had races with 10 or less cars finishing

-The drivers have little to do with set-up now - you no longer have 'specialists' at some tracks or just drivers who achieve a really sweet set-up.

-Everything on the car is remotely monitored on the pit-wall, so driver skill and experience count for less

-Wet races really no longer exist in their traditional form, there's limited scope for wet weather aces to make a mark

-The regulations are so tight there's little scope for breakthrough car developments

And so on......

Due to cost control rues, the engine and other stuff needs to be reliable. But instead of shellng it out on 20 engines, they make 8 + spending 20 engines worth of money making them more reliable. So nothing changed, except blow ups are rare these days.

Most rules layed down from 2003 onwards were kneejerk reactions to a dominating team. We lost the T-car, start crashes, warm up, race setup, 60 min Q with 12 laps, race cars pushed to the limit etc.

#188 motorhead

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:34

No, Bring back Goodyear.


This is not brand related, Pirelli is just doing what F1 organization wants them to do. I´m sure they are more than cabable in doing longer lasting tires...

#189 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:36

Also, people bring up Hamilton, but he won 3 races last year and is currently second in the WDC - it's not like he can't perform well on these tyres either. If Hamilton quits tomorrow my opinion on these tyres doesn't change - I don't like them.


Yes, I 'whinged' about them last week when Hamilton was leading the championship. The poster Sakae is a big Vettel fan who i've disagreed with on lots of stuff, but he hates these tyres just the same as me. Not everything people say is determined by which driver they like.

#190 ImDDAA

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:36

Thank the gods I still have MOTO GP, where balls to the wall, flat out racing still occurs and we don't have a tyre management exercise. Image the 2012 Qater MOTO 2 race on Pirelli style tyres. I shudder at the thought. :cry:


I agree, MotoGP involves tyre management but also a lot of actual racing - riders pushing their bikes as hard as they possibly can to catch the guy infront. We saw Kimi do that today and one attempt of an overtake cooked his tyres enough to ruin his chances completely.

#191 peroa

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:37

This is not brand related, Pirelli is just doing what F1 organization wants them to do. I´m sure they are more than cabable in doing longer lasting tires...


I very much doubt that.


#192 ImDDAA

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:39

I very much doubt that.

Then you're wrong.

#193 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:39

Allmost all the relevant, recorded transmissions between drivers-pit is about tires, tires,tires. Nothing else but tire management.

#194 Kvothe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:41

Just listen to this. And Bahrein wasn't that hot to say it's an exception.

http://www.dailymoti...highlights_auto


Lol at Michael's engineer:

****ing box ****ing box, nice way to stop pit stops being transmitted live over the world feed.

#195 Kucki

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:41

I very much doubt that.


Why not ? You know how much slower modern F1 cars are compared to the 2000s decade?


#196 AlexS

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:43

If you doubt that then you are an ignorant who doesn't even know F1 history...

#197 toxicfusion

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:43

Gone are the days of charging through the field with 20 qualifying laps. Sad, I miss that.

Instead we hear of thermal degradation, tyre windows, falling off the cliff. Not good.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey is not F1 I'm afraid.

I really hope some of the drivers come out after these comments and tell it like it is. Screw the PR machine.


They are gone for a number of reasons, the field this year is so close in overall lap time making it difficult to surge through the field if your at the back.

Schumacher managed to surged through the field last year at Spa on Pirelli tyres, although in 2011 the pack wasn't so tightly packed.

#198 toxicfusion

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:44

I very much doubt that.



They were asked to make tyres like this, they complied.


They can make hard tyres which last forever, see the 2011 Hard Tyre.

#199 muramasa

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:45

Take a look at single car series like GP2 or F3. They race mostly with "friendly" tires and yet they fail to produce a better show than F1. A large part of the problem with F1 is that everything is so optimized. The drivers hardly make mistakes and neither to the engineers or non-McLaren pitcrews.

GP2 of 2 generations ago was producing quality racing. That car had side-skirts and semi-wing car underpanel. There are hint everywhere. Cars of good balanced aero doesnt need gimmicks like DRS and current tyres. more but moderate wing car (under-the-floor downforce) and smaller/thinner wings might be the answer.
I dont know exact spec for new 2014 rule but F1 car needs whole concept change.


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#200 wepmob2000

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:46

This politically correct, everyone must be a winner, everything can be exciting BS world, is for idiots and those with their heads stuck in the sand. Some events are a foregone conclusion, it is simply reality. Not everything can be exciting. In some sporting events it is a forgone conclusion who the winner will be long in advance. Changing the rules and playing a joker, does nothing but make it artificial. What should we do for the 100 metres at the London Olympics this year? We all know Usain Bolt will win. Should we handicap him by giving the other runners a head start? No I have a better idea, lets give him shoes that degrade if you run on them flat out and make it a race on shoes, where the winner is determined by the runner who can run fastest without degrading his shoes too much. :drunk: Events are memorable for the simple fact they dont happen all the time. Most football matches are boring. It is only a handfull that are genuinely memorable. F1 racing is in the same boat. How many races in 2011, were as memorable as 2010? Did custard tyres, Kers and DRS make the spectacle any better than 2010? In our lust to be entertained many are asking for contrived races to provide entertainment. This is not the hallmark of a genuine race fan. I watch the UFC and not WWE for a reason. It seems like some people want F1 to go to a WWE style of racing. FFS Bernies short-cut idea is only a few degrees removed from the nonsense tyres Pirelli provide, yet many people are happy with this. :drunk: Thank the gods I still have MOTO GP, where balls to the wall, flat out racing still occurs and we don't have a tyre management exercise. Image the 2012 Qater MOTO 2 race on Pirelli style tyres. I shudder at the thought. :cry:


Thats a bizarre argument as you're not comparing like with like, there's no such thing as a Horsey-Chicken, just Horses and Chickens..... None of the sports you've mentioned rely on the equipment used like F1. Usain Bolt isn't going to fail to win a race because he's wearing adidas and not Nike, and nor is Man U going to fail to beat Chelsea for the same reason. In most sports talent and ability are probably 98% of the equation, with the equipment used being a small factor. F1 is completely the opposite, like it or not, none of the top drivers will win in an HRT and invariably the best cars win the most races. F1 results are probably 98% reliant on the cars and engineers in the teams with the drivers adding that little extra edge........

If you want true competion in F1 in the same sense as Football or Athletics you need teams running 100% spec cars prepared by one governing organisation. Somehow I think that would with howls of protest too.....


Edited by wepmob2000, 22 April 2012 - 18:52.