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Cooper T53 in Formula 2?


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#1 Roger Clark

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:26

Did Cooper race a T53 in formula 2 form during 1960?

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#2 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:38

Without checking, I'd say no, but I'm most interested in what prompted the question.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:55

I'm sure not. The factory were the only people with T53s in 1960, and their drivers all used older models for F2

#4 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:00

Didn't Brabham use his private T53 at one or two races? I thought we'd discussed this somewhere but I can't find it.

#5 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:03

Knowing Roger, there has to be some reason behind the question.

#6 Roger Clark

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:50

S Moss My Cars, My Career, page 230.

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:15

No doubt there

The Black Book gives Brabham's entry a T51 number (which of course it might have had)

#8 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:02

S Moss My Cars, My Career, page 230.


Sorry, don't have it. Can someone explain.

I found the reference I had to Brabham in a F2 T53. Roskilde 11 Sep 1960 and Zeltweg 18 Sep 1960. Pictures show a lowline in both cases.

#9 Roger Clark

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:13

A picture shows Brabham in a T53 at Zelweg. I wondered about Roskilde. The chassis number given n the Black Book is the same as for Solitude and the Nurburgring, both of which were definitely at T51, or 45.

#10 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:24

8W has this picture from Roskilde:

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#11 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 15:28

Is it remotely possible that they could have fitted T.53 bodywork on a T.51 chassis?

#12 Peter Morley

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 16:01

Is it remotely possible that they could have fitted T.53 bodywork on a T.51 chassis?


In theory not because T53 was the 'lowline' car with much sleeker bodywork, but it is possible they could have done something like the Lotus 18/21 where they fitted 21 style bodywork but in a larger size on the older/square 18 frame.

But more likely with Coopers is they changed chassis numbers around (e.g. re-used a clients earlier number) since they appear to have been even less in favour of purchase tax than Mr Chapman.

#13 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 16:10

But more likely with Coopers is they changed chassis numbers around (e.g. re-used a clients earlier number) since they appear to have been even less in favour of purchase tax than Mr Chapman.


A works carnet would have sufficed for these two races - or whatever carnet was on the mystery car he drove at Solitude 24 Jul 1960 and Nürburgring 31 Jul 1960.

#14 David McKinney

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 16:44

Is it remotely possible that they could have fitted T.53 bodywork on a T.51 chassis?

Not with a result as shown in the photographs

#15 humphries

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:24

The Cooper No 1 was definitely a T53. It was a brand new car having its first race. There are a number of photos of the car in "Fart & Form" pp 25-31, 10/1960 (yes, the British drivers were visibly sniggering over the magazine name at an award ceremony!). Photocopies of the race report were supplied by Morten Alstrup years and years ago.

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#16 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:31

The Cooper No 1 was definitely a T53. It was a brand new car having its first race. There are a number of photos of the car in "Fart & Form" pp 25-31, 10/1960 (yes, the British drivers were visibly sniggering over the magazine name at an award ceremony!). Photocopies of the race report were supplied by Morten Alstrup years and years ago.

John


Good man John!

Did you get any sense from the article whether this was the third works car that had first appeared in practice at Oporto three weeks earlier or Jack's personal car? Jack's personal car doesn't appeared to have raced until East London 27 Dec 1960.

BTW, I didn't believe that name either but Google is a wonderful thing:
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#17 humphries

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:41

Allen

Morten supplied a typed literal translation to all the stuff he sent me but there is nothing to indicate whether it was Brabham's own car or a works car. The report claims the car was having its first ever race and photos of Brabham lovingly preparing the car and even working on Hill's Lotus suggests he was his own man that weekend. The official programme list ( or at least the page I have) doesn't mention entrants and refers to Dennis Lawton and Rodger Hulme! I think the Black Books have added additional information, some of it assumed, and made necessary corrections.

Brabham, with the same number 1, appeared a week later at Zeltweg as you and Roger say, and that was a T53; methinks the same car. No programme to confirm entrant, or which T53.

John

#18 ChrisJson

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 14:13

Fart=speed in scandinavian languages.

Christer