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Mugello Testing (1st to 3rd May)


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#151 Rikhart

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:04

Ironic that sauber copies mclaren (which has looked the best version of the the exhausts from the begginin, to me), after redbull has copied their old version :D

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#152 ivand911

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:06

I guess Sauber are testing McL solution to see if it is better. Or not ,for their car. It is test after all.

Edited by ivand911, 01 May 2012 - 12:09.


#153 EvanRainer

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:06

Sorry to dispel your fantasy but Red Bull didn't copy anyone, they had been working on their solution since November. But why bother paying attention.

#154 jrg19

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:08

With people using the same solution as McLaren mainly Sauber, could we see McLaren adopt the pod wings to help with downwash?

#155 EvanRainer

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:08

Also they are not really different solutions, it's slightly different configuration of the same type. Sauber moving it around a bit does not meant they are "copying" McLaren.

#156 Francesc

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:08

Ironic that sauber copies mclaren (which has looked the best version of the the exhausts from the begginin, to me), after redbull has copied their old version :D


Yeah, Red Bull copied Sauber solution in just 3 weeks. :rolleyes:

#157 EvanRainer

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:10

We should expect all teams to evaluate and refine all solutions seen.

That doesn't mean though that every car will end up exactly the same, slightly different configs will probably suit every car better.

#158 Gutters

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:23

Could someone please enlighten me as to what those poles are on top of the Ferraris and Mclarens?

#159 Jambo

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:31

Haven't seen the pics today yet but assume they are pitot tubes. Used to measure wind speed and things like that.

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#160 engel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:34

Could someone please enlighten me as to what those poles are on top of the Ferraris and Mclarens?


pitot tube into completely clean air, plus a couple of other sensors

#161 Gutters

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:44

Ok thanks. The one on the Ferrari is huge, and I would have thought it'd have an aerodynamic cost.

#162 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:13

Ok thanks. The one on the Ferrari is huge, and I would have thought it'd have an aerodynamic cost.

There is but this is testing, not an effort at all-out speed.

You should see some of the crazy rigs the cars carry during testing. Just hang out--you'll see some stuff. Like that array of sensors on top of the diffuser on the red bull.

#163 engel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:15

There is but this is testing, not an effort at all-out speed.

You should see some of the crazy rigs the cars carry during testing. Just hang out--you'll see some stuff. Like that array of sensors on top of the diffuser on the red bull.


those are actually just many pitot tubes all together ... to measure air speed differences at many points across the diffuser :) The funky one is McLaren combine harvester they run sometimes

#164 Owen

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:20

raining heavy they say.

#165 TheBunk

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:21

Damn shame about the weather. Having said that if Ferrari doesnt fix their car I hope the European season will be miserable and cold. And six straight Alonso wins please. :)

#166 Jovanotti

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:25

Damn shame about the weather. Having said that if Ferrari doesnt fix their car I hope the European season will be miserable and cold. And six straight Alonso wins please. :)

...and I always thought you were one of the biggest Vettel fans out there :D .

#167 BernieEc

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:33

...and I always thought you were one of the biggest Vettel fans out there :D .

me too..........maybe he swings both ways.......

#168 F.M.

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 13:35

Posted Image

:rotfl: that super large airfoil profile on the engine cover

#169 pikamoku

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 14:43

from JA:

“It’s interesting to see that McLaren are planning to use Paffett and Turvey for the Mugello test, as they will also both be eligible for the Silverstone test, so the team can get some useful comparison work done across the two tests.”

hmm it could turn out to be the right thing after all..

WTF :rolleyes:

I dont buy it. No ofence mate, I mean JA opinion. Sounds crap to me, sorry. For whatever reason Mclaren has chosen this two simulator-drivers, but IMO I think it's for getting them 24/7 working on sim :rotfl: and for that purpose I think it's good the have some track experience


#170 Kraken

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 14:48

WTF :rolleyes:

I dont buy it. No ofence mate, I mean JA opinion. Sounds crap to me, sorry. For whatever reason Mclaren has chosen this two simulator-drivers, but IMO I think it's for getting them 24/7 working on sim :rotfl: and for that purpose I think it's good the have some track experience

Interesting way to describe Gary.....

I must admit I don't understand why so many people are confused over McLaren using the test drivers. It doesn't take the race drivers to do lap after lap at a consitent speed which is what testing new parts etc is all about.

#171 apoka

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:06

from JA:

“It’s interesting to see that McLaren are planning to use Paffett and Turvey for the Mugello test, as they will also both be eligible for the Silverstone test, so the team can get some useful comparison work done across the two tests.”

hmm it could turn out to be the right thing after all..

At least the weather so far is a good match for Silverstone.

#172 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:09

Great job. Using the track for testing that isn't suitable for testing just because one team prefers it. Business as usual at the pinnacle of racing.

All the teams agreed to it.

And Mugello is a perfectly suitable track for testing. Other teams might have chosen Barcelona as their 1st pick since they've already got data from there to compare with, but Mugello is very similar to Barcelona in terms of the demands it puts on the car and its a fantastic track overall. I doubt anybody is necessarily unhappy about it.

#173 F.M.

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:27

All the teams agreed to it.

Yeah, well, they probably agreed because testing in Mugello was free as Ferrari waived the rental fees

#174 jamiegc

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:28

Interesting way to describe Gary.....

I must admit I don't understand why so many people are confused over McLaren using the test drivers. It doesn't take the race drivers to do lap after lap at a consitent speed which is what testing new parts etc is all about.


Every driver has a different feel for a car and what they want from it. For example, Webber reportedly very happy with the RB setup, Vettel not at all happy, yet its the same car...

What Turvey & Paffett are happy with is not necessarily what Button & Hamilton will be happy with or able to make work.

#175 GlenP

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:32

Every driver has a different feel for a car and what they want from it. For example, Webber reportedly very happy with the RB setup, Vettel not at all happy, yet its the same car...

What Turvey & Paffett are happy with is not necessarily what Button & Hamilton will be happy with or able to make work.

It's a multi-hundred-million dollar per year business. Are you really suggesting that McLaren haven't thought about things like this? If it were as you say it is, then the race drivers would be doing the testing.

#176 sosidge

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:39

It's a multi-hundred-million dollar per year business. Are you really suggesting that McLaren haven't thought about things like this? If it were as you say it is, then the race drivers would be doing the testing.


Every other team has the race drivers doing the testing.

McLaren are either smarter than the other teams with hundred-million-dollar a year budgets or dumber than the other teams with hundred-million-dollar-a-year budgets.

Judging by the championship standings right now, McLaren had better demonstrate that they have made significant gains from sending the race drivers to a promo event instead of Mugello.

Because right now their rivals look to be getting a lot of data with their race drivers at the wheel. And that is more than just numbers - that is feel.

#177 Kraken

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:44

Every driver has a different feel for a car and what they want from it. For example, Webber reportedly very happy with the RB setup, Vettel not at all happy, yet its the same car...

What Turvey & Paffett are happy with is not necessarily what Button & Hamilton will be happy with or able to make work.

There's big difference between car setup for a GP weekend (getting the balance) and what is needed for a mid-season test.


#178 Hacklerf

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:44

McLaren have got 25kg of data gathering equipment in the car, the race drivers wouldn't get a true reflection anyway

#179 enrm6

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:49

McLaren are either smarter than the other teams with hundred-million-dollar a year budgets or dumber than the other teams with hundred-million-dollar-a-year budgets.


Or just different. It is OK to be different you know. That doesn't automatically make it better or worse. Also what works for RedBull doesn't necessarily work for McLaren or any other combination of teams you might mention. Lets see how the season pans out in car development and then re-assess.

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#180 GlenP

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:54

Every other team has the race drivers doing the testing.

McLaren are either smarter than the other teams with hundred-million-dollar a year budgets or dumber than the other teams with hundred-million-dollar-a-year budgets.

Judging by the championship standings right now, McLaren had better demonstrate that they have made significant gains from sending the race drivers to a promo event instead of Mugello.

Because right now their rivals look to be getting a lot of data with their race drivers at the wheel. And that is more than just numbers - that is feel.

Or, it doesn't make enough difference.

Again, whatever the reason - I very much doubt you know something that McLaren doesn't.

#181 MGKrebs

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 15:55

I was wondering if it was something in some of the drivers contracts. Maybe the contracts were signed before the test was scheduled and they can't make them do it. Lewis says he wants to do it, but if it's not in his contract there may be issues with insurance or something.
Just guessing because it doesn't make much sense to me either.


#182 iotar

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 16:23

All the teams agreed to it.

And Mugello is a perfectly suitable track for testing. Other teams might have chosen Barcelona as their 1st pick since they've already got data from there to compare with, but Mugello is very similar to Barcelona in terms of the demands it puts on the car and its a fantastic track overall. I doubt anybody is necessarily unhappy about it.

I'm sure they all agreed. I didn't mean it as against Ferrari post.

It's only a question if it's the best possible choice and opinions at least vary. I mean from the point of view of multi-million organization I find it a bit wird: we have one in season test, we need to choose one track and the reason we pick this one is because it's slightly cheaper? How about this: if every team could choose a test track would most of them choose Mugello? Maybe it doesn't matter and track is a track, I won't argue about it.

#183 korzeniow

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 16:27

Kind of unproductive session today with this rainy weather. What's the forecast for tomorrow? Rain again? Hope not

#184 maverick69

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 16:28

Or, it doesn't make enough difference.

Again, whatever the reason - I very much doubt you know something that McLaren doesn't.


Just like the low nose eh?

#185 puxanando

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 16:31

What's the forecast for tomorrow? Rain again? Hope not


I read it will be dry tomorrow!


#186 engel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 16:34

Kind of unproductive session today with this rainy weather. What's the forecast for tomorrow? Rain again? Hope not


nope, sunny day expected tomorrow

#187 TheBunk

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 17:22

...and I always thought you were one of the biggest Vettel fans out there :D .


I probably am. :) But the world is not black and white, and strictly for one driver only. I understand this must be a very hard thing to digest for some of the fanatics of just one driver, but this is the real world. We're getting off topic.



#188 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 17:48

I'm sure they all agreed. I didn't mean it as against Ferrari post.

It's only a question if it's the best possible choice and opinions at least vary. I mean from the point of view of multi-million organization I find it a bit wird: we have one in season test, we need to choose one track and the reason we pick this one is because it's slightly cheaper? How about this: if every team could choose a test track would most of them choose Mugello? Maybe it doesn't matter and track is a track, I won't argue about it.

I dont want to argue either. I just wanted to point out that saying that Mugello was unsuitable for testing was just about as wrong as wrong can be and that being cheaper isn't the only reason it was agreed upon.

#189 engel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 17:50

Ferrari offered Mugello for free as a sweetener for the smaller teams to agree to the test, it was well publicized back in August

Edited by engel, 01 May 2012 - 17:50.


#190 Brandz07

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 17:54

Or, it doesn't make enough difference.

Again, whatever the reason - I very much doubt you know something that McLaren doesn't.


For a start, both Gary and Oliver can take part in the Silverstone young drivers test, so there'll be consistancy in testing :)

#191 ivand911

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 19:41

From this viewpoint Williams exhaust looks like the McLaren one.
http://s1-03.twitpic...l/571258679.jpg

#192 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 19:50

From this viewpoint Williams exhaust looks like the McLaren one.
http://s1-03.twitpic...l/571258679.jpg


I suddenly want blueberry yogurt for some reason.

#193 BigCHrome

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 20:49

I probably am. :) But the world is not black and white, and strictly for one driver only. I understand this must be a very hard thing to digest for some of the fanatics of just one driver, but this is the real world. We're getting off topic.


So basically, you're a bandwagoner that follows whoever is the flavor of the month?

#194 GlenP

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 20:59

Just like the low nose eh?

It is interesting that everyone assumes McLaren know best one minute, and then assume they are incompetent the next, yes.

OT:I never said the low chassis was wrong, by the way. I did say Gary Anderson was correct to point out that it was a surprising choice. And I think I probably said it will eventually limit their development - if I didn't say that then, I'm saying it now. The key to that line of thought is did they underestimate where df would get to by the end of the season, not are McLaren incompetent, which obviously they aren't.

#195 One

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 21:04

http://img4.auto-mot...a9c5-591023.jpg

New downwash "wings" on the Sauber

It got slit air outlet on the nose, behind the step, above the foot of driver. Is this new?
Was also on other shot

#196 One

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 21:06

They are also testing a McLaren style exhaust (no coanda ramp)

http://t.co/uhZrQeD8

This one shot on Sauber owe looks like something that it should be on the RB s nose


#197 GlenP

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 21:16

That's always been there. It's different to the RBR one - the inlet is underneath. Scarbs did a bit about it.

#198 engel

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 21:16

It got slit air outlet on the nose, behind the step, above the foot of driver. Is this new?
Was also on other shot



This one shot on Sauber owe looks like something that it should be on the RB s nose



I m pretty sure (without googling images so not 100% sure) that it's been there since launch

#199 TheBunk

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 00:42

Nice compliment for Mclaren that they all test their configuration.

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#200 smoothcrim

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 00:50

Crazy how much faster F1 cars are than anything else,even a motogp bike would get lapped after around 4 laps of racing.An F1 car is around 30 seconds a lap faster at Mugello.