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Audi 'milestones' project


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#1 dudi1

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:14

Hello Autosport.com forum members!

My name is Dave, 20 years old. I think this is one of the best racing or car related websites, so I decided to include your opinions in my university project. It would be a great help, and would be nice to read opinions of the car experts.

I am doing a kind of "Timeline" of the Audi brand, where I have to include most ground-breaking or revolutionary Audi-s from history, but also some of present cars of the brand representing the way how the brand will continue design its cars for the future.

As the title says, I would like you to mention kind of "milestones" of Audi, from the times of Auto Union till today. Please mention as much cars as you can, with just one sentence about why was it/is it so ground-breaking from your point of view.

Then I have to create a video, catalogue and poster, where the cars will be present. I will include every car you mention, and share the poster/video in about 10 days, because that is the deadline for the project.

Thanks for every single post in advance,

Dave (dave@davedesign.sk)

P.S. If I wrote something wrong, I apologize for my English.


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#2 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:20

Hello Autosport.com forum members!

My name is Dave, 20 years old. I think this is one of the best racing or car related websites, so I decided to include your opinions in my university project. It would be a great help, and would be nice to read opinions of the car experts.

I am doing a kind of "Timeline" of the Audi brand, where I have to include most ground-breaking or revolutionary Audi-s from history, but also some of present cars of the brand representing the way how the brand will continue design its cars for the future.

As the title says, I would like you to mention kind of "milestones" of Audi, from the times of Auto Union till today. Please mention as much cars as you can, with just one sentence about why was it/is it so ground-breaking from your point of view.

Then I have to create a video, catalogue and poster, where the cars will be present. I will include every car you mention, and share the poster/video in about 10 days, because that is the deadline for the project.

Thanks for every single post in advance,

Dave (dave@davedesign.sk)

P.S. If I wrote something wrong, I apologize for my English.




For me only two:

Don't know the year it was released and if it was either the Audi 100 or already the 200 but the one with Audi's first 5 cyllinder engine, also one of the very first if not world's first ever 5 cylinder engine in production.

The original 1980 (or 1981?) Audi Quattro. Stepping stone to the acceptance of the merits of 4wd in production cars and rally cars.


Maybe, as a result of the Quattro: The 1985 Quattro E2 rallycar, probably world's most powerful rally car ever and generally hailed as one of the most insane/extreme cars of the out of control Group B era. Not the best of the bunch but mindboggling awesome.



Henri







#3 Allan Lupton

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:44

Audi may have had the first five-cylinder car-sized petrol engine but five-cylinder diesel lorry engines were well-established long before. For example, Gardner's 5L2 was offered in 1931.
Audi of course dates from long before the 1932 formation of the Auto Union having been founded by August Horch in 1909.

#4 Duc-Man

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:01

From the innovation point of view: Audi Front (Typ UW) for being the first european car with frontwheeldrive. Built 1933/34.

Sorry if this won't help you but for me personally: R8 because it is absolutly awesome.

#5 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:20

Audi may have had the first five-cylinder car-sized petrol engine but five-cylinder diesel lorry engines were well-established long before. For example, Gardner's 5L2 was offered in 1931.
Audi of course dates from long before the 1932 formation of the Auto Union having been founded by August Horch in 1909.



You're right. I meant to say five cylinder engine in production cars. because I believe there were two stroke Diesels intended for ships existing as well. The lorry is new to me.
Should have been more specific in my reply.


henri



#6 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:42

You're right. I meant to say five cylinder engine in production cars. because I believe there were two stroke Diesels intended for ships existing as well.

henri


I don't want to derail this thread before it's really started, but marine diesels can have almost any number of cylinders, and that's been the case for many years. A good example is the Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96-C, which is a two-stroke turbocharged low-speed diesel engine designed by Wärtsilä in Finland. It's currently the largest reciprocating engine in the world. It was designed for large container ships, and stands at 13.5 metres (44 ft) high, is 27.3 m (90 ft) long, and weighs over 2300 tonnes in its 14-cylinder version — producing 109,000 brake horsepower (81,3 MW). It could be made with any number of cylinders from 6 to 18. In some respects, that makes Audi's Le Mans efforts seem slightly tame, though rev limits will be a bit different, for marine diesels like this they can be as low as 80rpm.


#7 byrkus

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:41

I'd like to mention DKW F102 from 1964. It was the last new construction with 2-stroke engine in Western Europe, and also a transition model towards 'new' Audi. Some years later they redesigned front treatment, installed new 4-stroke engine (engineered by Mercedes-Benz, incidentally) and tried to launch it as DKW F103. However, Auto Union decided that the name "DKW" in synonimous with 2-stroke engines; so the new car came to market as Auto Union Audi L, and later as Audi 60 / 72 / 80 / Super 90.

So, in its own specific way, DKW F102 actually became one of the Audi milestones.;)


#8 D-Type

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:25

Really there are two separate phases in Audi history
(1) Prewar when Audi existed as a part of the Auto Union combine along with: DKW, Wanderer, etc
and
(2) Postwar when the name was revived in the mid sixties when Mercedes effectively hived off Auto Union to VW and in conjunction with VW launched Audi as a new make to occupy the middle ground between VW and Mercedes Benz. Then the new Audi absorbed NSU.

The postwar history may not be strictly accurate but it's the best I can do in two sentences.

In looking at Audi milestones I think we should really look at the postwar entity only.

So, from memory and hence probably not 100% accurate, possible milestones include:

The Audi 50 that begat the front engined water cooled VW Polo/Golf/etc range that replaced the Beetle. The first "modern" Audi?
The Audi 60/72/80/90/100/ etc middle sized saloon that epitomised the Audi brand in its early years
The K70 that started as an NSU, became an Audi and was eventually sold as a VW. The first "large VW"?
The 5-cylinder engines - technological innovation
The Quattro
The Le Mans winning cars particularly the diesels

Any others (and possibly a couple of these) are merely "new models" and not significant enough to be considered "milestones"

Any Audi PR claims to being successors to the prewar cars are just sales stories.

#9 arttidesco

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:40

Without wishing to put you off your time line I think you have to be very careful not to get too wrapped up in press hype when it comes to the word 'ground breaking' in my mind Auto Union / Audi is closely associated with rear engine Grand Prix cars, 5 cylinder motors, four wheel drive production cars and diesel racing cars but I do not believe Auto Union / Audi was the first in any of these fields though they may be considered the first to successfully utilise some of these technologies.

#10 Allan Lupton

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 13:02

From the innovation point of view: Audi Front (Typ UW) for being the first european car with frontwheeldrive. Built 1933/34.

Apart from Tracta in 1926, Alvis in 1928 and even DKW in 1931 from where the designers of the Audi Front may have got the inspiration when both became members of the A-U.

#11 David McKinney

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 16:37

Really there are two separate phases in Audi history
(1) Prewar when Audi existed as a part of the Auto Union combine along with: DKW, Wanderer, etc
and
(2) Postwar when the name was revived in the mid sixties when Mercedes effectively hived off Auto Union to VW and in conjunction with VW launched Audi as a new make to occupy the middle ground between VW and Mercedes Benz. Then the new Audi absorbed NSU.

Both of which followed the independent Audi marque established in 1910


#12 mikeC

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 17:04

Apart from Tracta in 1926, Alvis in 1928 and even DKW in 1931 from where the designers of the Audi Front may have got the inspiration when both became members of the A-U.


... and BSA: three wheelers from 1929 and four wheelers from 1931.

#13 MCS

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 17:05

I had an Audi until recently and the only enjoyment I could ever derive from taking the car in for a service was an Audi "history" book that was always on the coffee table where the customers were asked to wait.

It was, I'm sure, a "house produced" volume, but appeared to be very thorough indeed, so it may be an idea to go to your local Audi showroom/garage and have a look around...

Good luck by the way!

#14 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 17:56

I had an Audi until recently and the only enjoyment I could ever derive...

I've had four of them, surely they aren't quite that bad?


#15 Charlieman

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 18:21

The 5-cylinder engines - technological innovation
...
Any Audi PR claims to being successors to the prewar cars are just sales stories.


I never understood the point of the inline five cylinder design, other than to be different. It must have been expensive to manufacture with its counter balance shaft.

NSU offered some interesting models -- the NSU Prinz is still a star on the track -- although the Ro80 is assumed to have killed the company.

IMHO, there is a thread of truth in Audi's historical claims. But Trabant could say the same thing.


#16 Michael Ferner

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 19:04

I seem to remember a Mercedes-Benz 5-cylinder engine in the seventies... was that before, or after?

#17 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 19:05

NSU offered some interesting models -- the NSU Prinz is still a star on the track -- although the Ro80 is assumed to have killed the company.


A phrase has remained forever in my mind from a road test of an Ro80 in my Dad's Motor or possibly Autocar, way back in 19somethingor other. "If some superior being arrived on earth from another planet, and brought his personal transportation vehicle with him, we'd expect it to ride and handle something like the Ro80". I may have got the odd word slightly wrong after 50+ years, but that's the impression the car made at the time. One of Dad's friends had one of these back then. When owners met another one on the road, they used to raise a hand with a few fingers extended, that was the number of replacement engines they'd had. A flawed but truly groundbreaking car, have Audi ever really come up with anything to match it?


#18 AAGR

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 19:37

I wish I'd had someone else to do my research for me when I was a student ....

AAGR

#19 RCH

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 19:41

I was just thinking that....

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#20 Michael Ferner

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 19:46

I wish I'd had someone else to do my research for me when I was a student ....

AAGR


No way! Research is all the fun of it!! The writing down is the tedious part...

#21 MCS

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 20:06

I've had four of them, surely they aren't quite that bad?


Rob

What I said was: I had an Audi until recently and the only enjoyment I could ever derive from taking the car in for a service was an Audi "history" book that was always on the coffee table where the customers were asked to wait.

:wave:

Mark

#22 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 20:55

Rob

What I said was: I had an Audi until recently and the only enjoyment I could ever derive from taking the car in for a service was an Audi "history" book that was always on the coffee table where the customers were asked to wait.

:wave:

Mark


Well I understood that bit, but my own verdict on recent Audis would have been "competent but dull", if we're going to be more specific, I'd have added "With slightly uncomfortable seats and appalling ride comfort, but I'm starting to come over like a poor man's Andrew Frankel here. I thought that might have been the point you were making, I don't think anyone could ever accuse any current Audi of being entertaining.


#23 arttidesco

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:18

I don't think anyone could ever accuse any current Audi of being entertaining.


Last time I drove a TT it left a smile on my face for a week, driving it on an Autobahn may have had something to do with it :-)

#24 Duc-Man

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:52

Apart from Tracta in 1926, Alvis in 1928 and even DKW in 1931 from where the designers of the Audi Front may have got the inspiration when both became members of the A-U.



... and BSA: three wheelers from 1929 and four wheelers from 1931.


To my defense I have to say that I read an article about the Audi Front some time ago and looked for confirmation on the web.
The result:
Wow! This is pretty much the first time google really bullshited me! :blush:

#25 arttidesco

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:08

I seem to remember a Mercedes-Benz 5-cylinder engine in the seventies... was that before, or after?


Would that be the turbocharged diesel OM617 first seen around 1974 ? Reckoned to be one of the most reliable motor's ever built by MB :up:

#26 Allan Lupton

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:10

To my defense I have to say that I read an article about the Audi Front some time ago and looked for confirmation on the web.

I have looked at some of the Audi advertising (not recently) and they have an interesting but non-rigorous view on history.
Their PR department is probably staffed by people too young to even know that Audi is only one the four rings that they now think of as the Audi logo.

Just had a quick look and they say of the Audi Front UW220 ""Type U" came from the Audi alphabet, "W" stood for the origin of the engine" although no other Audi had a 2 letter designation.
I prefer this version: "The letters "UW" in the car's name stood for "Umgekehrter Wanderer" and referred to the fact that it featured a Wanderer engine that had been "umgekehrt" (turned around) through 180 degrees in order to drive wheels" but can't prove which is wrong!

Edited by Allan Lupton, 26 April 2012 - 10:36.


#27 Duc-Man

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:34

That article wasn't in an Audi publication but in an 'independant' car magazin. As they all are. :rotfl:

#28 byrkus

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:00

It's like that mythical 751 kg Mercedes GP car, before they scratched the white paint of it... which is mentioned over and over in practically every PR publication of Mercedes-Benz...;)

As they said in "The man who shot Liberty Valance"... When the legend becomes a fact, ALWAYS print the legend...

Edited by byrkus, 26 April 2012 - 11:00.


#29 arttidesco

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:34

It's like that mythical 751 kg Mercedes GP car, before they scratched the white paint of it... which is mentioned over and over in practically every PR publication of Mercedes-Benz...;)


I'm sure I read somewhere this myth was actually about an overweight Auto Union  ;)

#30 D-Type

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 20:31

I'm sure I read somewhere this myth was actually about an overweight Auto Union ;)

Or Audi? :p

#31 droopsnoot

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 18:28

I never understood the point of the inline five cylinder design, other than to be different. It must have been expensive to manufacture with its counter balance shaft.


Slightly off-topic, I know: I didn't think the I5 had a counterbalance shaft, surely that's the point of the heavy crankshaft damper that requires the very high torque on the front of the crankshaft with the cambelt pulley? I did strip and rebuild mine, but it was a while back and I forget the details (or blanked them out, one or another) and a quick look in the manual suggests no counterbalance shaft.

It's certainly the case that a lot of Audi innovations are really other innovations that they've simply been more successful at refining and/or marketing. Four-wheel drive on a road car probably goes to Subaru, for example. Much as I like the cars (or the older ones where you could tell them apart, at least) there's a lot less outright originality than some might suppose. And their neglect of the quattro in terms of parts supply, given its role in the modern renaissance of the company, is shameful.

Edited by droopsnoot, 03 May 2012 - 18:31.


#32 Allan Lupton

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:38

Yes inline fives get away without a balancer shaft - so much better to have a six which truly doesn't need one at all.
Subaru certainly has an edge on four-wheel-drive road cars but, unlike the Ferguson system on which Ford/Jaguar is based, they use a 50/50 front/rear power split and are actually proud of it. Like Audi, Subaru came to 4-w-d from front drive and seem to assume that we want to retain the power understeer.

#33 Charlieman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 14:32

Slightly off-topic, I know: I didn't think the I5 had a counterbalance shaft, surely that's the point of the heavy crankshaft damper that requires the very high torque on the front of the crankshaft with the cambelt pulley?


Apologies for my memory lapse.

There was a clever bit in the Quattro transmission, with one shaft residing within another. I believe that Audi borrowed the idea from helicopter designers.

#34 dudi1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:22

Hello!

I am back on-topic to thank all of you, who shared their opinions or comments about Audi milestones. It was really a great help and I am amazed how much posts got in there. You are great!

Now it is up to me to show you the actual "Audi Milestones" artwork that I have created. I did some further research about the cars you mentioned, and finalised a list of 12 cars.

The graphical artwork, process of creating, research and list of vehicles is located on my Audi blog here:
http://www.theaudide...fad-bratislava/

For those who are lazy to overclick themselves :):

Post n.1: Introduction
http://www.theaudide...t-introduction/
Post n.2: Inspiration
http://www.theaudide...-and-sketching/
Post n.3: Choosing the right stuff
http://www.theaudide...he-right-stuff/
Post n.4: Research
http://www.theaudide...-post-research/
Post n.5: Finalizing
http://www.theaudide...ost-finalizing/
Post n.6: Final Artwork
http://www.theaudide...final-design-5/

Thanks again, I will keep you updated.

Dave

#35 fbarrett

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 01:14

Really there are two separate phases in Audi history
(1) Prewar when Audi existed as a part of the Auto Union combine along with: DKW, Wanderer, etc
and
(2) Postwar when the name was revived in the mid sixties when Mercedes effectively hived off Auto Union to VW and in conjunction with VW launched Audi as a new make to occupy the middle ground between VW and Mercedes Benz. Then the new Audi absorbed NSU.


True. Any Audi history must address this long, long lapse. Was there really a genuine contiguous link between these eras, or was the Audi name simply picked by marketers in the 1960s for the new company?

By the way, whenever we saw a 100LS stalled at the roadside, we in the U.S. always called it "Hitler's Revenge", as this model was probably the least reliable car of its era.

Frank

#36 arttidesco

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:03

Hello!

I am back on-topic to thank all of you, who shared their opinions or comments about Audi milestones. It was really a great help and I am amazed how much posts got in there. You are great!

Now it is up to me to show you the actual "Audi Milestones" artwork that I have created. I did some further research about the cars you mentioned, and finalised a list of 12 cars.

The graphical artwork, process of creating, research and list of vehicles is located on my Audi blog here:
http://www.theaudide...fad-bratislava/

For those who are lazy to overclick themselves :):

Post n.1: Introduction
http://www.theaudide...t-introduction/
Post n.2: Inspiration
http://www.theaudide...-and-sketching/
Post n.3: Choosing the right stuff
http://www.theaudide...he-right-stuff/
Post n.4: Research
http://www.theaudide...-post-research/
Post n.5: Finalizing
http://www.theaudide...ost-finalizing/
Post n.6: Final Artwork
http://www.theaudide...final-design-5/

Thanks again, I will keep you updated.

Dave


Great Stuff Dave hope you get a good grade :up:


#37 dudi1

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:08

Great Stuff Dave hope you get a good grade :up:


UPDATE:

The contest is launched, so I would like to ask you to give like button to the "Audi Timeline Project" by clicking on the "LIKE!" at the bottom of the page.

LINK The Audi Design Performances

Posted Image

LINK The Audi Design Performances

Thanks very much for support.

Edited by dudi1, 17 May 2012 - 09:25.


#38 arttidesco

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:01

UPDATE:

The contest is launched, so I would like to ask you to give like button to the "Audi Timeline Project" by clicking on the "LIKE!" at the bottom of the page.


Done and retweeted :up:

#39 Rudernst

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 20:50


The first Audi milestone was the 1914 Audi Alpensieger, quite a remarkable car at the time

check that out


Rudolf

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#40 dudi1

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 22:21

Hello TNF community!

Here is another update, a presentation video for the "Audi Milestones" project:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=GRvUUQnfYNI

I wanted to make it less boring lol... Hope you will like it. If you will have time, please click the "Thumbs up!" button in the link at the video description, voting ends at 31th of May. Thanks :)

#41 dudi1

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 16:34

The first Audi milestone was the 1914 Audi Alpensieger, quite a remarkable car at the time

check that out


Rudolf


Exactly, but the Audi history dates from 1909, right?

#42 dudi1

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 16:45

Posted Image

For watching the video click the next link:

YOUTUBE: The Audi Milestones Project

"My name is David Toth, I study at the Academy of Fine Arts and Design in Bratislava and this is my entry video for the Audi roof design contest. The "Audi Milestones" roof, designed specially for the Audi A1 represents a timeline of the brand from 1909 till present. The automobiles, better said, the "milestones" of the Audi brand are placed between the lines created by tree rings, representing the evolution of the Audi brand through decades."

Edited by dudi1, 08 June 2012 - 16:49.