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2013 Silly Season


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#1101 KingB

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:37

Depends on the track. Any stop&go-lots of slow turns circuit will favor Force India by far. Nice flowing circuits like Spa/Suzuka/Monza favors the Sauber also by a good margin.

You have to see: the Sauber is superior in raw speed. They've started once from the front row, three times from the second row and twice from the third. FI has one start from second and one from third row.
Additionally Sauber is better to the tyres in race.

I'm very pleased with the drivers at FI so I wish them a better seat. Despite I want to keep them too =) but it shows good work, if they are considered by better teams

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#1102 Elloh

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:49

Guessing that no one is taking any interest in Davide Valsecch? Will be only the 2nd time since GP2 started that the series winner hasn't found themselves in F1 the next year.


Winning GP2 in your 5th (!) season isnt so impressive. Before GP2 Davide´s best championship position in any series was 7th (Formula Renault 2.0 Italia after his third season there), mostly he finished 14th-16th position.

http://en.wikipedia....#Career_summary


He has succeded to come this high in the motorsport ladder because of $$$, but he wont get any higher.

#1103 billm99uk

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:29

Agreed he doesn't deserve a seat. Guessing the two most likely graduates from GP2 we will see next year will be Gutiérrez (Sauber) and Chilton (Marussia).


You can hardly say that pair are any better than Valsecchi though. Gutierrez is too erratic and Chilton is occasionally quick but hopeless in traffic. Maybe if they were picking Bianchi or Frijns I 'd get excited. :|

Edited by billm99uk, 07 October 2012 - 22:30.


#1104 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:37

And even this year Valsecchi wasn't that impressive - 0 wins between the feature race at Bahrain on 27th April and the sprint race at Monza on 9th September - 16 races without a win. He was very lucky that no driver was consistently winning when he wasn't.

#1105 Collective

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 00:40

You can hardly say that pair are any better than Valsecchi though. Gutierrez is too erratic and Chilton is occasionally quick but hopeless in traffic. Maybe if they were picking Bianchi or Frijns I 'd get excited. :|

Bianchi's second GP2 season was underwhelming to say the least. If Gutierrez was erratic in 2012, Jules went above and beyond last year.

#1106 SUPRAF1

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:23

Would be disgraceful for the so called top-tier of motorsport if Kobayashi doesn't get a decent drive next season.

Respect should go to Vijay Mallya for taking on Di Resta and Hulkenberg based on talent instead of sponsorship money even though he is struggling like hell financially.

#1107 wattoroos

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:51

Report essentially links Hulkenburg to Sauber with Massa retaining his seat and the possibility of Buemi coming back
http://www.motorspor...sauber-reports/

#1108 SparkPlug

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:27

Report essentially links Hulkenburg to Sauber with Massa retaining his seat and the possibility of Buemi coming back
http://www.motorspor...sauber-reports/

Hulkenburg certainly deserves a place in a good team IMO, he has shown a lot of promise this year in the Force India, and I wouldn't be surprised if he beats Kobayashi in Sauber next year (assuming the above happens)

#1109 Yoshi

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:50

Roger Benoit (one journatlist from Blick.ch and commentator at SF2) said after the race, that we might see Kobayashi & Hulkenberger driving for Sauber.
He has a good connection to Peter Sauber and is well informed.

#1110 sofarapartguy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:52

Roger Benoit (one journatlist from Blick.ch and commentator at SF2) said after the race, that we might see Kobayashi & Hulkenberger driving for Sauber.
He has a good connection to Peter Sauber and is well informed.

That would be my dream come true. Although I'm not fully understand why Hulk should change FI for Sauber - he knows the current team better and you never know what they will built next year.

#1111 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:53

Someone should sign Ricciardo fast. Driver of the race in Suzuka and has been excellent all season.

Future WDC material based on his racecraft and speed fighting against Koba, Button, Massa and MSC under enormous pressure yesterday.


Sauber

Ricciardo
Kobayashi

#1112 eronrules

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:15

but one key point regarding sauber seat is that TELMEX is continuing there sponsorship, which means that they'll love/want to see a mexican in that vacant seat, and Esteban Guitierez is there test driver for a while now. so it's more likely that one of the seat is booked for a mexican.

i don't think hulkenberg will move out of FI. that makes no sense. but i'd like to see Heikki in a higher up team.

ferrari will with a degree of certainty retain Massa, though i fail to see the wisdom in that while so many good alternatives are floating around.

another interesting point is who replaces Petrov. Pic is strongly linked to that seat.

and finally , not the forget what will my most favorite driver will do next (most likely stay put, but who knows :drunk: )

see video ...

what will kimi raikkonen do next

Edited by eronrules, 08 October 2012 - 08:16.


#1113 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:04

It's interesting that Kaltenborn has said what we all knew - Perez's podiums were more down to qualifying badly, and Kobayashi has been unlucky. Maybe Sauber will keep him.

#1114 Zava

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:09

It's interesting that Kaltenborn has said what we all knew - Perez's podiums were more down to qualifying badly, and Kobayashi has been unlucky. Maybe Sauber will keep him.

where is that interview? thanks in advance. :up:
edit: nvm, found it

Edited by Zava, 08 October 2012 - 09:19.


#1115 WatchingF1since4yearsold

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:21

Hulkenburg certainly deserves a place in a good team IMO, he has shown a lot of promise this year in the Force India, and I wouldn't be surprised if he beats Kobayashi in Sauber next year (assuming the above happens)


Kobayashi > Hulkenberg


#1116 sofarapartguy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:24

Kobayashi > Hulkenberg

why?

#1117 marcoferrari

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:27

Report essentially links Hulkenburg to Sauber with Massa retaining his seat and the possibility of Buemi coming back
http://www.motorspor...sauber-reports/


Buemi? There are so many rumours now, that it all becomes really chaotic... :confused:

#1118 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:31

why?

Because Hulkenberg has always looked extremely average.

#1119 sofarapartguy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:59

Because Hulkenberg has always looked extremely average.

His car so far always looked extremely average.

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#1120 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:04

His car so far always looked extremely average.

The Force India this year has sometimes had podium-contending pace - at Valencia for example. Both FI drivers have underperformed massively.

#1121 DrF

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:13

So who will drive the other Lotus next year?

#1122 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:22

after silly season silliness the last 2 weeks over the ferrari seat , it all calmed down now after massa's 2nd place , the only change will see is bottas in williams and guiterez in sauber

#1123 William Hunt

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:30

I'm surprised that Buemi is apparently a major candidate for Force India. A good driver off course but there is lots of competition.

#1124 Oho

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:32

So who will drive the other Lotus next year?


Romain Grosjean... as for the other well..

Edited by Oho, 08 October 2012 - 11:42.


#1125 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:35

Looks like Maldonando's PDVSA money will not be in doubt - Chavez has won the Venezuelan election.

#1126 sock22

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:45

The only source I have seen for the Buemi rumours is Blick, which is a Swiss newspaper, so it's probably more hopeful than anything else.

#1127 eronrules

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:54

i think i'm in the minority who actually rate pastor maldonado higher than most other people do. there is a differece between raw talet of pastor and grosjean. grosjean is a talented driver but lacks spatial awareness. also most of his good result are partly due to Lotus E20 being a good car. but pastor has regularly outperformed his car, both last year and this year. what he lacks is self control and being calculated , i.e playing the patience game. i have no gripes of PDVSA money coming and paying him. Perez is paid for by TELMEX and carlos slim, no one questions him, so why should pastor be.


also another news last month was alguesuari beating his drums saying he'll race ''For Sure''. why don't ferrari take him instead of massa??? he's spanish and quiet talented, and young, so santander should love him. i don't see him doing any worse than massa ... and yes, i'm also not convinced of massa's 2nd place last gp., he still needs to do better.

i'd love to see Bottas in williams, i see in him a young and talented 'Kimi Raikkonen', back in the sauber and early Macca days ... i guess most finnish drivers do.


#1128 KavB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:13

Why is Hulkenberg on the move? Sauber's form may be a one off for this year. Or is Force India's financial troubles worrying him? Seems like a bit of a waste for FI to drop Sutil if that is the case. They essentially wasted half a season with Hulkenberg getting back up to speed.



#1129 King Six

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:14

after silly season silliness the last 2 weeks over the ferrari seat , it all calmed down now after massa's 2nd place , the only change will see is bottas in williams and guiterez in sauber

I think so too. Maybe some shuffling at the back too but it's hard to follow the back of the grid with all the random drivers they tend to have.

#1130 Misk

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:31

Looks like Maldonando's PDVSA money will not be in doubt - Chavez has won the Venezuelan election.

Maldonado now has the safest seat in F1 for the next 6 years! :lol:


#1131 travbrad

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:37

And even this year Valsecchi wasn't that impressive - 0 wins between the feature race at Bahrain on 27th April and the sprint race at Monza on 9th September - 16 races without a win. He was very lucky that no driver was consistently winning when he wasn't.


Yep and he was also lucky that they went to Bahrain twice in a row (4 races) since that seemed to be his best form/track of the season. Nearly 1/3rd of his total points were scored in those 2 weekends. Had they only gone to Bahrain once, I wonder whether he would have even won the championship.

#1132 Jon83

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:46

BBC say Massa expected to stay at Ferrari after his Japan performance, could be announced before Korean GP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/19861867

Literally a career saving race, Kobayashi too most likely. If I was Ferrari I would still see how he does in the rest of the season, Massa has been awful, can't judge him based on a single good race.


My only guess then is that they have something fixed up for 2014 and have decided not to bring someone in for one season.



#1133 Vickyy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:03

The Force India this year has sometimes had podium-contending pace - at Valencia for example. Both FI drivers have underperformed massively.


Ohh yes absolutely, the same race where Hulk finished 5th with zero KERS from lap7?
Hilarious to see the usage of word "massive" in this context :lol:


#1134 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:13

Ohh yes absolutely, the same race where Hulk finished 5th with zero KERS from lap7?
Hilarious to see the usage of word "massive" in this context :lol:

Yes, Hulk finished 5th - but in qualifying Di Resta was set for the front row until he cocked up the final sector. So the car was clearly quick. Also Hulk wouldn't have been 5th if it hadn't been for Grosjean and Vettel's bad luck and Maldonado's silliness.

#1135 King Six

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:16

I wouldn't say underperformed either, the car is clearly slower than the Williams (most times) and Sauber nearly all the time. But I hope FI keep both drivers on and try to produce a better car for 2013. They did say pretty early and different to previous seasons that they are closing development of their current car and focusing on next year.

Anyway, it seems like even though Sauber still have Telmex and a few other sponsors they still want Kamui to bring some cash to the table. Rather strange if you ask me...

#1136 Sakae

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:17

Is it definite now that Gro is out of Lotus next year?

#1137 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:21

Is it definite now that Gro is out of Lotus next year?

Where did you hear that?

#1138 tarmac

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:22

Is it definite now that Gro is out of Lotus next year?


Only Gerad Lopez could make Boullier do that

#1139 Vickyy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:25

Yes, Hulk finished 5th - but in qualifying Di Resta was set for the front row until he cocked up the final sector. So the car was clearly quick. Also Hulk wouldn't have been 5th if it hadn't been for Grosjean and Vettel's bad luck and Maldonado's silliness.


Exactly, car was clearly fast because both driver showed that the car was fast. This year, in races FI suffers greatly from tyre wear and hence in Valencia, Rosberg who was 17 seconds behind from Di Resta with 6 laps to go, caught him with fresh tyres.
And looking over the season I am really surprised you used "massive under-performance" of both drivers while they clearly punched above their weight and specially when you compare performances with immediate rivals Williams and Saubers.

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#1140 Jimisgod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:28

Is it definite now that Gro is out of Lotus next year?


Only if Nissan got in touch with Kamui upon seeing his podium and offered to stump up cash as part of their deal with Renault. Long shot, but Japan's first honestly fast driver is worth a try.

#1141 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:38

Exactly, car was clearly fast because both driver showed that the car was fast. This year, in races FI suffers greatly from tyre wear and hence in Valencia, Rosberg who was 17 seconds behind from Di Resta with 6 laps to go, caught him with fresh tyres.
And looking over the season I am really surprised you used "massive under-performance" of both drivers while they clearly punched above their weight and specially when you compare performances with immediate rivals Williams and Saubers.

They showed the car was fast but didn't deliver what the car was capable of. The popular opinion seems to be that the FI drivers are getting the absolute most out of their cars, but I just don't see that at all.

#1142 Vickyy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:44

They showed the car was fast but didn't deliver what the car was capable of. The popular opinion seems to be that the FI drivers are getting the absolute most out of their cars, but I just don't see that at all.


Then you really should check constructor tables and lap timings side by side.
I admit, they have been very lucky at times (Biggest FI hauls : Valencia, Spa, Singapore), but they grabbed those opportunities with both hands with 8th fastest car.

#1143 Sanman59

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:48

after silly season silliness the last 2 weeks over the ferrari seat , it all calmed down now after massa's 2nd place , the only change will see is bottas in williams and guiterez in sauber


God I hope its not that boring!! Prefer this not impossible line up!!

1 Sebastian Vettel
2 Mark Webber

3 Jenson Button
4 Sergio Perez

5 Fernando Alonso
6 Filipe Massa

7 Kimi Raikonnen
8 Heikki Kovalainen

9 Lewis Hamilton
10 Nico Rosberg

11 Nico Hulkenberg
12 Sebastian Buemi

14 Paul di Resta
15 Jaime Alguersuari

16 Pastor Maldonado
17 Valtteri Bottas

18 Daniel Ricciardo
19 Jean Eric Vergne

20 Timo Glock
21 Max Chilton

22 Kamui Kobayashi
23 Giedo van der Garde

24 Pedro de la Rosa
25 Dani Clos

:p

Edited by Sanman59, 08 October 2012 - 15:49.


#1144 Collective

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:51

11 Nico Hulkenberg
12 Sebastian Buemi


11 Kobayashi/Hulkenberg
12 Esteban Gutiérrez

#1145 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:23

Let's take a stab at this :well:

Caterham:
Heikki Kovalainen - I can't see Giedo's money forcing him into F1
Charles Pic - Not happy at Marussia and all the sponsor talk make this seem possible

Ferrari:
Fernando Alonso
Paul Di Resta - I don't believe Massa's podium has saved him. Massa off to Indycar maybe?

Force India:
Jules Bianchi
Jaime Alguersuari

HRT:
Pedro De La Rosa
Luiz Razia - I'll guess him if he's able to bring the funds.

Lotus:
Kimi Raikkonen - Can't see him going elsewhere, he's just trolling fans with his little campaign :)
Kamui Kobayashi - This is wishful thinking. Hopefully Lotus are forced to put Grosjean on the sidelines for a year and KK is his replacement

Marussia:
Timo Glock
Max Chilton - Signs seem to point this way

McLaren:
Jenson Button
Sergio Perez

Mercedes:
Lewis Hamilton
Nico Rosberg

Red Bull:
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber

Sauber:
Nico Hulkenberg - Swiss papers link him here. Financial problems at FI, perhaps he wants to get away
Esteban Gutierrez - Carlos Slim WANTS another Mexican at Sauber, no other candidates really

Toro Rosso:
Daniel Ricciardo
Jean-Eric Vergne

Williams:
Pastor Maldonado - Although rumours in Venezuela suggest it'll be much less sponsorship next year
Valtteri Bottas - I'd be surprised if he isn't there

Out:
Massa, Senna, Grosjean, Petrov, Karthikeyan and Schumacher.

#1146 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:01

Then you really should check constructor tables and lap timings side by side.
I admit, they have been very lucky at times (Biggest FI hauls : Valencia, Spa, Singapore), but they grabbed those opportunities with both hands with 8th fastest car.

No way is it the 8th fastest car, more like the 5th.

#1147 Jimisgod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:07

What benefit does Sauber get chucking away a podium scorer who knows the car for 2 guys who are either new or have never scored higher than Kamui? One money bags makes sense, 2, not so much.

#1148 muramasa

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:33


What's funny is that some people's claims of Hulk/di Resta=better than both Sauber drivers, Sauber=great car, FI=mediocre car, linking Hulk/di Resta to Ferrari/Mclaren, etc are exact carbon copy of what some jorno and media say. But there's no base for that at all. Proper race by race analysis points to quite opposite actually.
Someone like Allen is really succeeding in this media spin and hype. :yawnface: Obviously he wanted to put di Resta or Hulk to Mclaren or Ferrari hence playing down Perez before Macca signing him, esp after Monza. :rolleyes: Now he's busy playing down Kamui and talk up Hulk (maybe coz assuming Massa look more likely to stay at Ferrari after Suzuka), so quick to minimize the impact of KK's briliant performance and podium in Japan. :o

#1149 TFLB

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:34

If Hulk did go to Sauber (which I don't think will happen), would it be by choice or by being forced out at FI?

#1150 King Six

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:39

What benefit does Sauber get chucking away a podium scorer who knows the car for 2 guys who are either new or have never scored higher than Kamui? One money bags makes sense, 2, not so much.

Two guys who have also never been given a podium scoring car. You can't really compare these drivers directly when they're all driving vastly different machines. You might as well say why replace Webber with someone younger who has never won a race before at Toro Rosso.

Anyway, It seems like too many people are hitching onto the Hulkenberg/Sauber train and for some reason everyone still is getting excited and hoping to see Heikki at a top team again. :well:

Anyway this article has Hulkenberg saying he's in talks with Force India, which presumably means they're going to keep him on for next year. I think he may have had a shout at Ferrari, but now that Massa got his podium they're probably willing to forgive the rest of his past three years as a result.