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2013 Silly Season


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#1651 William Hunt

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 16:47

No, according to reliable sources, he is in talks with Lotus, Williams and Caterham


Ok, then who are these reliable source then? Anyone could make a comment like that by mentioning anonymous sources. It would surprise me if Petrov would move back to Lotus, that seems almost impossible to me.

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#1652 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 17:05

Compaing Kubica to Buemi. Or even Kovalainen to Buemi. Is disgrace to Kubica and Kova. You can't compare WDC contender in 2008, and driver that was driving in top team with driver that was driving in midfield team at max, and had rookie as teammate


Bottom line is Petrov needs to beat someone if he wants to be considered more than a pay driver.

#1653 Starish

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 20:41

Why is Petrov a way better driver than Alguersuari. Could you enlighten me?

Petrov actually showed potential, he was fast and consistent when the car was there for him, hey he got a podium and his qualy was very good in the first half, Jaime now.. just drove and tried to do a Perez on the different strategy... he is very much like vergne this season.... qualifies in 18th and benefits from being slower than his team mate, he did have some good qualifying sessions but it was 2 or 3.

Petrov isn't better than Koba or Kova to me though.... but Both Buemi and jaime underperformed in the Str6.

#1654 BiH

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:09

I don't think so. FW34 is a much better car than the C31. It just has been let down by the drivers and sometimes by the team aswell.


Two rounds away from end of season, other then Spain nothing has come close close to Sauber's results. You can blame some of that down to sub par Senna but its not like Pastor doesn't know how to drive.


#1655 Creepy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:13

Petrov actually showed potential, he was fast and consistent when the car was there for him, hey he got a podium and his qualy was very good in the first half, Jaime now.. just drove and tried to do a Perez on the different strategy... he is very much like vergne this season.... qualifies in 18th and benefits from being slower than his team mate, he did have some good qualifying sessions but it was 2 or 3.

Petrov isn't better than Koba or Kova to me though.... but Both Buemi and jaime underperformed in the Str6.


False statements there.

Buemi usually did better qualys, but Jaime beat him 7 times there, so it wasn't just 2 or 3 times when Jaime had a good qualy.

And Jaime got for Toro Rosso the two best qualy places of the season (7th and 6th, China and Spa) and the two best race finishes (7th in Italy and 7th in Korea), starting ahead of Buemi in Korea out of those two.

Anyway, who cares, on race pace Jaime beat Buemi more oftenly than not even when he started ahead.

http://www.formula1....r/2011/847.html
http://www.formula1....r/2011/842.html

Edited by Creepy, 10 November 2012 - 21:14.


#1656 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:13

Two rounds away from end of season, other then Spain nothing has come close close to Sauber's results. You can blame some of that down to sub par Senna but its not like Pastor doesn't know how to drive.

So Sauber have 4 podiums and Williams have never come close to that? How about in Valencia when Maldonado crashed out while overtaking Ham for 3rd, or in Singapore when he was running in 4th having qualified second and was just screwed by strategy, safety car and reliability, or in Abu Dhabi where Maldonado was catching eventual winner Raikkonen early on until his KERS packed up? There are 3 examples of podium potential races plus the win which would beat 4 sauber podiums, especially as Malaysia's near win was a strategy fluke and poor luck for Ham.

#1657 oscy23

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:22

I think some of Saubers podiums have been down to astute strategies from Perez one-stopping and sometimes weather assisted strategies
Williams have really been pretty poor with their strategies all yr. and yes, maldonado couldve had one or two more podiums..
your comparing Sauber would did quite well last yr considering their car, and williams would racked up 5pts last yr will a box car.

Williams have jumped leaps and bounds..what more do you expect of them..



#1658 Anderis

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:42

So Sauber have 4 podiums and Williams have never come close to that? How about in Valencia when Maldonado crashed out while overtaking Ham for 3rd, or in Singapore when he was running in 4th having qualified second and was just screwed by strategy, safety car and reliability, or in Abu Dhabi where Maldonado was catching eventual winner Raikkonen early on until his KERS packed up? There are 3 examples of podium potential races plus the win which would beat 4 sauber podiums, especially as Malaysia's near win was a strategy fluke and poor luck for Ham.

You could add Belgium, where Maldonado qualified 3rd, then got a penalty for impending, then jumped his start, then was hit and spun by someone after Grosjean's crash and then crashed into Glock.
For me it's clear that FW34 deserves 5th position in WCC.

Maldonado started from top3 in 5 races this season. This shows that the car has some serious speed, but both the team and basically drivers had some problems to capitalise from it.

#1659 SRK

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:38

or in Abu Dhabi where Maldonado was catching eventual winner Raikkonen early on until his KERS packed up?

which laps you mean?


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#1660 Wander

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:47

which laps you mean?


The laps under safety car, I think.

#1661 Anderis

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:48

which laps you mean?

Lap2 seems the only one on which Pastor was quicker. KoezhVukotic probably read too much from Pastor's post-race comments.

But anyway, Maldonado seemed a bit quicker than Alonso before first SC and was able to drop him out of DRS zone. So without KERS failure, 2nd on the finish would've been likely outcome. But it's hard to tell how the situation would've evolved.

#1662 MustangSally

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 15:50

For me it's clear that FW34 deserves 5th position in WCC.

Maldonado started from top3 in 5 races this season. This shows that the car has some serious speed, but both the team and basically drivers had some problems to capitalise from it.


The season has been up and down. Force India has been stronger at a couple of tracks. Sauber has been strong at others. Sauber has had a fair few driver mishaps too.

Sixth was probably doable this season.


#1663 sopa

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 17:12

About comparing Alguersuari and Petrov. I'd say matching Heidfeld (what Petrov did in 2011) is more impressive than matching Buemi, what Alguersuari did.

But still I'd rather see Alguersuari in F1 if I really had to choose between the two. He is younger and may have more long-term potential.

#1664 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 17:31

Because he beat his teammate during a season, something we still have to see from Petrov.

Petrov beat a well respected Nick Heidfeld didn't he?

#1665 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 17:50

Petrov beat a well respected Nick Heidfeld didn't he?


Nope. In the races they were together Heidfeld scored more points.

#1666 KavB

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 18:01

He barely beat him overall even though he had half a season more of racing than Nick! (I know Renault were pretty poor in the latter half)

#1667 Jackmancer

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 18:27

He barely beat him overall even though he had half a season more of racing than Nick! (I know Renault were pretty poor in the latter half)


Correct, he was two points ahead of Nick when Nick was sacked.

#1668 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 18:30

Correct, he was two points ahead of Nick when Nick was sacked.


That's wrong, Nick was two points ahead when they sacked him.

#1669 Anderis

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 18:34

AFAIR Nick was better in the majority of the races. They were close in points because Heidfeld had crashes in Australia and Canada, which rather weren't his fault.

#1670 jals99

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 18:49

AFAIR Nick was better in the majority of the races. They were close in points because Heidfeld had crashes in Australia and Canada, which rather weren't his fault.

In Australia Nick did not crash) He just was very slow partly because of car problems.
In Canada the crash was partly his fault, and Vitaly also lost many points in crashes in Malaysia, in which he hit a bump and Monaco, which was not his own fault, and in Monaco Nick gained points with that crash. It was more possible Vitaly will be ahead in points, than Heidfeld could extend his gap.

#1671 Anderis

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 19:13

In Australia Nick did not crash) He just was very slow partly because of car problems.

1st lap crash was what caused his car's problems.

Vitaly also lost many points in crashes in Malaysia, in which he hit a bump

In Malaysia it was his fault that run too wide. And he was way behind Heidfeld, running on 8th.

But I'm not going to argue who actually deserved more points because I'm to lazy to look at all the data now :p

#1672 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 19:28

Lap2 seems the only one on which Pastor was quicker. KoezhVukotic probably read too much from Pastor's post-race comments.

But anyway, Maldonado seemed a bit quicker than Alonso before first SC and was able to drop him out of DRS zone. So without KERS failure, 2nd on the finish would've been likely outcome. But it's hard to tell how the situation would've evolved.

Was he not closing? I thought he was based on the timings on the main channel, my mistake. He was certainly fairly comfortable in front of Alonso and so yes pending no more foul ups would have had a good 2nd or 3rd possibly.

#1673 scheivlak

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 23:57

Was he not closing?

He wasn't.

I thought he was based on the timings on the main channel, my mistake.

Yes, your mistake.

He was certainly fairly comfortable in front of Alonso and so yes pending no more foul ups would have had a good 2nd or 3rd possibly.

Possibly.

#1674 Oho

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:11

Lap2 seems the only one on which Pastor was quicker.


And that probably was for the shenanigans up front after Lewis missed a corner and the scrap that followed.

Edited by Oho, 12 November 2012 - 06:11.


#1675 Myrvold

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 15:45

Erhm, Silly Season, not comparison thread!

#1676 Vesuvius

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 20:22

Heikki opened up to MTV3, it's Caterham or nothing and it doesnt look good. He said they had a deal ready to be signed after singapore gp (confirmed by Fernandez) and Heikki had stopped conversations with other teams because he decided to stay at Caterham but Glock's 10th place changed everything and Caterham needs money now. Then other teams had also decided to choose other drivers so Heikki is out next year most likely.

Edited by Vesuvius, 16 November 2012 - 20:23.


#1677 Santosdf

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:11

I just heard on the radio that Esteban Gutierrez has already signed a contract with Sauber and that the team will confirm it next week, however I don't fully trust mexican media and will wait until the team annoncement. If true I really hope Kamui can find another drive in F1, I like Esteban but Kamui deserves to stay in F1 IMO.

#1678 artista

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:16

I just heard on the radio that Esteban Gutierrez has already signed a contract with Sauber and that the team will confirm it next week, however I don't fully trust mexican media and will wait until the team annoncement. If true I really hope Kamui can find another drive in F1, I like Esteban but Kamui deserves to stay in F1 IMO.

Spanish TV said during one of the free practices that Slim was in the paddock and had confirmed Gutiérrez had been signed. Slim is also supposed to have said the signature has not been made public yet, because it's the team who decides when it's the best moment for them.

#1679 jals99

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:16

I just heard on the radio that Esteban Gutierrez has already signed a contract with Sauber and that the team will confirm it next week, however I don't fully trust mexican media and will wait until the team annoncement. If true I really hope Kamui can find another drive in F1, I like Esteban but Kamui deserves to stay in F1 IMO.

Slim confirmed it today as well, and he is 100% sure
http://www.f1aldia.c...al-sauber-2013/


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#1680 midgrid

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:31

But, meanwhile:

Kobayashi increasingly confident of retaining Sauber drive.

Is Gutiérrez's supposed contract definitely for a race seat? Is it a pre-contract agreement that will trigger the full contract only if Kobayashi does not bring a certain amount of funding by a certain date? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

#1681 Santosdf

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:32

Slim confirmed it today as well, and he is 100% sure
http://www.f1aldia.c...al-sauber-2013/

Well Congrats to Esteban I really wish him to do well, but still feel sorry for Kamui.

#1682 jals99

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:19

Well Congrats to Esteban I really wish him to do well, but still feel sorry for Kamui.

Same for me. They both are very talanted guys.

Edited by jals99, 17 November 2012 - 06:28.


#1683 jals99

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:27

But, meanwhile:

Kobayashi increasingly confident of retaining Sauber drive.

Is Gutiérrez's supposed contract definitely for a race seat? Is it a pre-contract agreement that will trigger the full contract only if Kobayashi does not bring a certain amount of funding by a certain date? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Blick, who always has connections to Sauber, wrote Kamui was told he would not be retained by team a week ago. May be he may bring sponsors to another teams like FI
http://www.blick.ch/...-id2106415.html



#1684 soarer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:04

Для меня одинаковые. Они оба очень талантливые ребята.

Of two same talented guys, I prefer someone who isn't a paydriver, still

#1685 Anderis

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:18

Of two same talented guys, I prefer someone who isn't a paydriver, still

But it's pretty obvious any F1 team prefers otherwise.

#1686 XOR

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:41

But it's pretty obvious any F1 team prefers otherwise.

Yep, including McLaren.

#1687 jals99

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:49

Of two same talented guys, I prefer someone who isn't a paydriver, still

Its vicious circle: If the team like Sauber see two drivers with more or less same potential if they both have no money, they will prefer more experienced driver, because they understand they would struggle with rookie a lot in the beginning,especially with current situation of limited testing. So it is hard for rookies like Esteban to enter F1 without money, even he is worthy it based on sporting results(GP3 champion in first year, 3d place in GP2 in second year ). So he needs money to compete against guys with more or less same potential but with much more experience.
I hope both Kamui and Esteban will be in F1 in 2013 in the end...

Edited by jals99, 17 November 2012 - 10:50.


#1688 Shiroo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:51

and I hope Esteban won't. he was somehow crashy during his starts. I would give him few years in inferior series still... Mclaren hopes that they will get Slim cash if Sauber wont contract Esteban

#1689 soarer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:15

I hope both Kamui and Esteban will be in F1 in 2013 in the end...

but it will not.
guys with no money will be out of F1, regardless of their talent. this is not fair.

#1690 bonneville

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:06

Erhm, Silly Season, not comparison thread!


Agree. I wish moderators would delete non relevant discussions. This thread has become really annoying this year. It reads like people write here trying to convince team managers to hire their favorite drivers... Can we please keep it to rumoured and confirmed moves and leave all the fancied moves out of this thread...

#1691 Anderis

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:53

but it will not.
guys with no money will be out of F1, regardless of their talent. this is not fair.

Still plenty of drivers with no money have already secured their seats for 2013.

#1692 lustigson

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:58

Agree. I wish moderators would delete non relevant discussions. This thread has become really annoying this year. It reads like people write here trying to convince team managers to hire their favorite drivers... Can we please keep it to rumoured and confirmed moves and leave all the fancied moves out of this thread...

+1

#1693 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 17:10

According to AMUS, Force India are considering everyone who can drive a car. Sebastien Buemi, Jaime Alguersuari, Adrian Sutil, Jules Bianchi, Heikki Kovalainen, Bruno Senna, Davide Valsecchi, Luiz Razia, Johnny Cecotto, Jr., Rodolfo Gonzalez, Rubens Barrichello and Jacques Villeneuve are supposedly drivers who have made contact with Force India regarding their second seat. It seems, however, that Force India's criteria have whittled the list down to Buemi, Alguersuari, Sutil and Senna.

#1694 Viryfan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 17:12

Charles Pic to be confirmed this week at Caterham.

#1695 F1ultimate

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 17:14

Charles Pic to be confirmed this week at Caterham.


Taking Heikki's seat I presume. Given that Petrov's manager doesn't want to scrape for cash like he did the same period last year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Caterham replacing both drivers.

#1696 Viryfan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 17:18

Taking Heikki's seat I presume. Given that Petrov's manager doesn't want to scrape for cash like he did the same period last year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Caterham replacing both drivers.


According to adam hay-Nichols Van Der garde is going to Marussia Pic's seat.

So i think it's a battle between Petrov and Kovalainen.

#1697 dau

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:00

According to AMUS, Force India are considering everyone who can drive a car. Sebastien Buemi, Jaime Alguersuari, Adrian Sutil, Jules Bianchi, Heikki Kovalainen, Bruno Senna, Davide Valsecchi, Luiz Razia, Johnny Cecotto, Jr., Rodolfo Gonzalez, Rubens Barrichello and Jacques Villeneuve are supposedly drivers who have made contact with Force India regarding their second seat. It seems, however, that Force India's criteria have whittled the list down to Buemi, Alguersuari, Sutil and Senna.

Jacques Villeneuve?

#1698 Myrvold

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:29

Yeah, really? JV? Even as a die-hard JV-fan... Really?

#1699 Francesc

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:31

And Rodolfo Gonzalez? Really???

It seems they don't rate Bianchi very highly.

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#1700 Trust

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:34

Please let it be Jacque. I would kill to see that.