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#1 mariner

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 14:34

I hold no GM shares ( thankfully) and have no axe to grind but I thought this result from a mass production car which can corner resonably well is quite impressive if true ( which I presume it is).

http://www.freep.com...-11-second-club

To put it in pespective the 2010 Porsche 911 GT3 RS is regarded ( rightly I think) as a peak of Porsche enginering. It does the 1/4 mile in 12.2 seconds at 120 mph versus 11.93 and 116 mph for the Camaro. The Porsche cost $150K in the UK less taxes.

Clearly the 911 GT3 RS is better and faster round any track but the fact a mainstream US car get match it to 120 mph AND corner reasonably well says a lot for what volume car engineers can deliver when allowed.

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#2 munks

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 15:23

American car companies have the engineering skill to do all sorts of stuff. There have been several very impressive Corvettes as well if you look at performance vs. price. At another end up the spectrum, they could have easily made a good hybrid before Toyota did ... they certainly had the resources, but never really tried until someone else proved you could be successful. Mismanagement has been plaguing them for decades, not poor engineering.

#3 bigleagueslider

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 01:17

I hold no GM shares ( thankfully) and have no axe to grind but I thought this result from a mass production car which can corner resonably well is quite impressive if true ( which I presume it is).

To put it in pespective the 2010 Porsche 911 GT3 RS is regarded ( rightly I think) as a peak of Porsche enginering. It does the 1/4 mile in 12.2 seconds at 120 mph versus 11.93 and 116 mph for the Camaro. The Porsche cost $150K in the UK less taxes.

Clearly the 911 GT3 RS is better and faster round any track but the fact a mainstream US car get match it to 120 mph AND corner reasonably well says a lot for what volume car engineers can deliver when allowed.


mariner-

First, as a matter of full disclosure, I am a US taxpayer and current owner of a 2002 GMC 1/2T truck (which I am thoroughly satisfied with).

I am always a bit amused when people talk about being "surprised" by the performance of higher end GM/Ford/Chrysler products. The Ford Mustang GT500, Chevy Corvette ZR1, Cadillac CTS-V, and Dodge Viper all produce far more HP than the 911 GT3 RS while costing 40% to 50% less. The engineering departments of Ford/GM/Chrysler are just as competent as any other car company.

Lastly, (and I apologize for being OT) as a US taxpayer, on principle I will no longer buy a GM or Chrysler product due to the way their recent financial bailout was handled. Good thing you weren't a GM shareholder, because GM & Chrysler shareholders and bondholders got shafted, while the labor unions got paid-off. GM and Chrysler still owe the US taxpayers tens of billions of dollars, but I doubt they'll ever pay it back.

As for munks' comment about US companies like GM bringing new technologies to market, what about the electric GM EV-1?

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#4 Greg Locock

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 01:40

As for munks' comment about US companies like GM bringing new technologies to market, what about the electric GM EV-1?


So far as I am aware GM largely led the charge with both airbags and smog reduction, as two rather expensive examples. Even now their research wing is large, and if you add in what they lost when they sold Delco it dwarfs the other two. However I'd probably agree that their research expertise is rarely utilised as effectively as it might be, in the final result, although I'd say their lineup at the moment in the USA is looking rather better than it has for years.

While the bailout was done horribly it did preserve the essence of the industry, and was probably less corrupt than the Wall St bailouts. Not saying much I know. The truth is that building cars in every country is supported one way or another, the USA prefers to do it by occasional massive bailouts and various tariffs, in Australia we rely more on a continual drip feed of 'assistance' and special funding.

#5 NeilR

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:35

Mismanagement has been plaguing them for decades, not poor engineering.



Lazy marketing and product planning following marketing advice has been plaguing them, for years...

#6 Magoo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:28

http://www.amazon.co...d...2939&sr=1-1

Edited by Magoo, 13 May 2012 - 15:43.


#7 munks

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:22

As for munks' comment about US companies like GM bringing new technologies to market, what about the electric GM EV-1?


I had a feeling somebody might bring that up, but since I haven't seen "Who Killed The Electric Car?", I'm not sure what the conclusion was. But even now (with much better battery tech), I think the conclusion is still that pure electrics don't have enough range, so the intermediate step of a hybrid would have been a better choice.

EDIT: But yes, I admit that the EV1 was fairly gutsy, and its poor market showing (whether real or imagined compared to reasonable expectations) probably affected the bean counters' mindset for years to come.

Edited by munks, 14 May 2012 - 01:27.