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#1 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:45

So was thinking about this for a while.

There is an argument that the results are somewhat being doctored, Pirelli may be sending over special tyres to teams in a bit to ensure there is a level of unpredictability. The teams don't know they have them because they are randomly allocated, although Pirelli know exactly who are getting them.

It may explain why one weekend one team looks great and the next weekend they're all at sea. The Top teams are always there or there about because of superior downforce, but you can tell with smaller teams. Sauber hasn't been able to replicate their performance from Malaysia, we'll see if Williams can replicate this in Monaco.

This adds some weight as F1 is about to go public, and markets look towards a popular brand liked by everyone rather then enthusiast.

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#2 Coops3

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:48

I suspect this will get shot down in flames fairly quickly, as conspiracy theories generally do. I don't personally believe for a second this is happening, but you'd have to say, it's certainly possible!

#3 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:49

Do you know what was different about Malaysia from all the other races?

#4 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:50

I think this is happening

#5 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:51

Its not as if all the teasm are close. Its one or two teams each weekend which look good and the rest are just hopless.

Pirelli must be banned

#6 Crafty

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:51

The OP earlier:

Posted Image

The reason the season is unpredictable is because no-one fully understands the tyres, thus they can only react to what happens, not know what is going to happen. Massive field leveller.

#7 jjcale

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:51

I dont endorse this theory.... but I found interesting the coincidence that Williams do so well this weekend.

There are lots of "fairly tales" in F1 ... more than I am comfortable with.

I dont expect most people posting to have any appreciation of this topic... most of them could not figure out that Macca had a fuel issue on LH's car before it was announced.

#8 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:53

If this was happening I would never watch F1 again. But I highly doubt it.

#9 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:54

When Hulk got pole a few years ago, wasn't there something special going on for williams then?
And also when Toyota got pole?

#10 george1981

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:54

Pirelli randomise the tyre allocations to even out any manufacturing differences. I presume the teams and the FIA can request to look at which tyres went to whom and from which production batch they came from after each race.
There might be a conspiracy in Pirelli making tyres that suit a particular team but I think that would be rather obvious and the other teams would make noises.

#11 Siperoth

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:54

I don't have a problem flattering a theory but Malaysia was a crazy race full of rain etc so you can't take it as something Pirelli made. So basically the only one left was this race since the other where won by relatively strong cars. So just one race isn't much of evidence. Also we don't know if Williams after putting new parts haven't build a close to top car.

It's quite a weak conspiracy theory really.

#12 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:55

Its not as if all the teasm are close. Its one or two teams each weekend which look good and the rest are just hopless.

Pirelli must be banned


Not convinced, 5 races in and they haven't yet figured out the tyres. There are some pretty smart people in teams like red bull, Ferrari, Mclaren which can only mean one thing. Pirrelli are constantly changing their tyres.

#13 Risil

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:55

There have been credible-but-not-officially-confirmed rumours in other control tyre series that the smaller teams get the dud tyres or rubber that's been returned at the end of the previous race weekend. But, er, why would Pirelli want to piss off the big teams like that? What do they have to gain?

#14 BigWicks

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:55

I prefer a simpler explanation. Pirelli are unable to provide equal quality tires across a number of batches. So its pot luck whether you end up with a workable tire or a useless one.

Also, the field is so close anyway that this lack of consistency in the product Pirelli are providing is much more noticable.

#15 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:55

I dont endorse this theory.... but I found interesting the coincidence that Williams do so well this weekend.

There are lots of "fairly tales" in F1 ... more than I am comfortable with.

I dont expect most people posting to have any appreciation of this topic... most of them could not figure out that Macca had a fuel issue on LH's car before it was announced.


So when Williams wins it has to be by some sort of conspiracy? It can't be that they did the job right?

#16 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:56

There have been credible-but-not-officially-confirmed rumours in other control tyre series that the smaller teams get the dud tyres or rubber that's been returned at the end of the previous race weekend. But, er, why would Pirelli want to piss off the big teams like that? What do they have to gain?


The show? They already said Spain could see the 5th winner

#17 Smile17

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:57

It's not a crazy thing to think at all. As Paul hembery said earlier; 'We are in the entertainment business'. Don't be naive.

#18 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:57

Pirelli randomise the tyre allocations to even out any manufacturing differences. I presume the teams and the FIA can request to look at which tyres went to whom and from which production batch they came from after each race.
There might be a conspiracy in Pirelli making tyres that suit a particular team but I think that would be rather obvious and the other teams would make noises.


We'll find out at the next race. I predict they will fall back to the pack and a new winner will made in Monaco.

#19 jjcale

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:58

So when Williams wins it has to be by some sort of conspiracy? It can't be that they did the job right?


When they win on this particular weekend for the first time in several years, and not looking like winning at ahy point this season... I will keep an open mind.

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#20 Massa_f1

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:59

Taking nothing away from top drives we have seen this year by unexpected drivers they fully deserve the results they have had, but i Think this could well be happening. I can't see how the tyres are the same up and down the field. There is so much change.

#21 Baddoer

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:00

It just Bernie. Old bad fart still owns everyone.

#22 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:00

What I find more amazing is that for one race Mercedes looked unbeatable, and again they are no where.
Redbull, we all thought ah redbull is back and again now they are back to being no where.

The only teams that have being averagly steady is Lotus and McLaren. Except for the 1st race McLaren havn't being the outstanding best but they have never being below 3rd

#23 xAtarigeekx

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:01

All teams are getting the same tyres. Very occasionally there are bad sets, like that weird set Hamilton had last year in Malaysia, but 99% of the time they are identical.

Of course we all know Whitmarsh is giving Hamilton bad tyres but he hates him so that's not surprising. See EVERY McLaren thread for further details.  ;)

#24 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:01

When they win on this particular weekend for the first time in several years, and not looking like winning at ahy point this season... I will keep an open mind.


Remember there's been a three week gap between GPs. They may have developed the car.
Anyway it's always good to keep an open mind :)

#25 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:02

It just Bernie. Old bad fart still owns everyone.


Exactly, just cant be a coincidence. teams are smart people they can work out what's working what's not, unless there is a variable they cannot calculate or influence.



#26 Massa_f1

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:03

I prefer a simpler explanation. Pirelli are unable to provide equal quality tires across a number of batches. So its pot luck whether you end up with a workable tire or a useless one.

Also, the field is so close anyway that this lack of consistency in the product Pirelli are providing is much more noticable.



:up: I think this is bang on what is happening of am honest.

#27 jjcale

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:04

Remember there's been a three week gap between GPs. They may have developed the car.
Anyway it's always good to keep an open mind :)


I am only keeping an open mind.... after that information ... and then evidence ... and then proof is needed.

Its a long way from an open mind to a confirmed theory.


FWIW I also found interesting that Merc won "out of the blue" shortly before the Merc board had to decide if they wanted to stay in F1... so I have a predisposition to dislike "coincidences".



#28 olliek88

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:04

:rotfl:

#29 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:05

Exactly, just cant be a coincidence. teams are smart people they can work out what's working what's not, unless there is a variable they cannot calculate or influence.


I don't buy that, Piralli are a world class manufacturer, to say they cannot manufacturer to 0.01% tolerance is an insult to twenty first century technology.

#30 spacekid

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:06

I don't for one minute believe this is happening, but I like the idea so much I'm going to give the thread a :up:

Its a fun thought, what with Perelli going on all the time that its their business to entertain, and its certainly spooky that Williams won this weekend!!!

So what will the scriptwriters think of next to keep us watching? A Lotus win?

If I was Pirelli I'd give HRT a win at the last race of the season, just to say :p to everyone :)

#31 sharo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:07

If nothing else, Hembery predicted (?) a fifth different winner.

#32 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:07

I am only keeping an open mind.... after that information ... and then evidence ... and then proof is needed.

Its a long way from an open mind to a confirmed theory.


FWIW I also found interesting that Merc won "out of the blue" shortly before the Merc board had to decide if they wanted to stay in F1... so I have a predisposition to dislike "coincidences".


Thing is I think teams would have already noticed. They're not dumb.

#33 sniper80

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:07

Yep Pirelli's tyres are too different from one set to another. That's why we see lots of punctured tyres as well.

#34 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:07

If this thread is shutdown then we know we are being silenced and this must be true. I am watching carefully.

#35 Risil

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:08

The show? They already said Spain could see the 5th winner


Not worth it, surely. If Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull realised they were being shafted on a regular basis, they'd surely throw a fit. And let's just say it's unproven whether F1 fans as a whole really want to see anyone other than the regular teams winning all the time. ;)

How many people would have to be in on the conspiracy? Pirelli would have to 1) build different quality tyres back at the factory, 2) figure out who to give them to, and 3) arrange it so a whole weekend's batch for a team would be of one kind or the other. I can just about believe those NASCAR conspiracies when someone gets a different-sized restrictor plate than everyone else, because only one team member, one scrutineer and possibly one driver needs to know. And NASCAR runs a much stricter policy of omerta than Formula One. They couldn't even ban Pat Symonds properly.

Before we knew anything about the 2012 tyres, it was already being predicted by most observers and even designers that we'd have an extremely close season, because the rules didn't allow any particular avenues for aerodynamic development. Evidently teams like Red Bull and Mclaren have failed to work out a replacement for the extremely fiddly exhaust-blown diffusers. The only significant technical development afaik was the "front wing DRS" which was basically just a trick for maintaining setup balance during qualifying. Quite minor.

Edited by Risil, 13 May 2012 - 15:13.


#36 fabr68

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:08

Yes. When your favorite team/driver is not dominating Formula 1 with procession races, it is got to be a conspiracy.





#37 King Six

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:08

With EBD gone, Double Deck Diffusers gone...the teams are much more equal, and the season is more random. There's not much teams can do for performance these days, apart from things being removed the rules have matured quite quickly.

So this probably highlights even more any inconsistencies between the Pirelli tyres that each team gets, of which there probably is, nobody is perfect, but I think with Pirelli asked to develop a tyre that degrades quickly rather than just a good flat out racing tyre then you're more likely to get inconsistencies during manufacturing across the range, but I'm no expert on tyre construction and they (Pirelli) are.

As for it being done on purpose, maybe if Bernie is heavily involved in all of this, maybe.

#38 iotar

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:08

Another my driver and team suck let's blame moon tides thread.

Anti-tires BS agenda hit the new low. One thing is when someone makes up ridiculous nonsense, another when other posters pretending as 'sensible' shake their heads and stroke their chins with "well I don't know but it is interesting coincidence and I wonder...yadda...yadda"



#39 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:09

There have been credible-but-not-officially-confirmed rumours in other control tyre series that the smaller teams get the dud tyres or rubber that's been returned at the end of the previous race weekend. But, er, why would Pirelli want to piss off the big teams like that? What do they have to gain?


I don't buy that, Piralli are a world class manufacturer, to say they cannot manufacturer to 0.01% tolerance is an insult to twenty first century technology.

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#40 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:09

It´s simply that everyone except FI, TR and the poor teams are very close.

From that enormous pack, whoever has a good weekend and get the car nailed for the circuit can win. I´m afraid Lewis would have crushed the field today starting from pole, and I´d love to, so we wouldn´t have to read rubbish :rolleyes:

Just curious, did any of you blame BS for the 2009 massively unstable field too?

#41 4MEN

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:10

All teams are getting the same tyres. Very occasionally there are bad sets, like that weird set Hamilton had last year in Malaysia, but 99% of the time they are identical.


And you know that because...

#42 blackonyx4

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:11

Well, there's a fire currently in the Williams garage.

Probably to destroy all evidence!? :p

#43 Anomnader

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:11

Another my driver and team suck let's blame moon tides thread.

Anti-tires BS agenda hit the new low. One thing is when someone makes up ridiculous nonsense, another when other posters pretending as 'sensible' shake their heads and stroke their chins with "well I don't know but it is interesting coincidence and I wonder...yadda...yadda"


Its nothing about favourite driver, its every week a different team comes to the fore front and then suddenly disappear into midfield


#44 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:13

If this thread is shutdown then we know we are being silenced and this must be true. I am watching carefully.


Bridgestone did it for Ferrari for a number of years. No one could confirm until years later.
Who needs to be in the know, pirrelli tells truck driver tyres 1,2,3 go to mclaren, redball, and sauber, tyres 4,5 go to Ferrari and Williams.
Who is he to ask why? People just do what they are told...

#45 xAtarigeekx

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:14

And you know that because...


Because it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise

#46 Darth Sidious

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:16

Its nothing about favourite driver, its every week a different team comes to the fore front and then suddenly disappear into midfield


Randomness. I cannot believe for a second that Pirelli are able to tailor their tyres to 'switch on' particular teams at particular venues, like for Williams at Barcelona to coincide with the prevalent weather conditions at a certain venue. I just can't get my head around it.

The only way to do it, to my mind, would be to give one batch of tyres 2mm more usable rubber than the rest before they hit the 'cliff' layer, but if the tyres are allocated at random then Pirelli have no control over who they go to.

Hang on a sec, this would explain a lot.....


:rotfl:

#47 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:16

[quote name='Risil' date='May 13 2012, 16:08' post='5717042']
Not worth it, surely. If Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull realised they were being shafted on a regular basis, they'd surely throw a fit. And let's just say it's unproven whether F1 fans as a whole really want to see anyone other than the regular teams winning all the time.;)

How many people would have to be in on the conspiracy? Pirelli would have to 1) build different quality tyres back at the factory, 2) figure out who to give them to, and 3) arrange it so a whole weekend's batch for a team would be of one kind or the other. I can just about believe those NASCAR conspiracies when someone gets a different-sized restrictor plate than everyone else, because only one team member, one scrutineer and possibly one driver needs to know. And NASCAR runs a much stricter policy of omerta than Formula One. They couldn't even ban Pat Symonds properly.

Before we knew anything about the 2012 tyres, it was already being predicted by most observers and even designers that we'd have an extremely close season, because the rules didn't allow any particular avenues for aerodynamic development. Evidently teams like Red Bull and Mclaren have failed to work out a replacement for the extremely fiddly exhaust-blown diffusers. The only significant technical development afaik was the "front wing DRS" which was basically just a trick for maintaining setup balance during qualifying. "



Bridgestone did it for Ferrari for a number of years. No one could confirm until years later.
Who needs to be in the know, pirrelli tells truck driver tyres 1,2,3 go to mclaren, redball, and sauber, tyres 4,5 go to Ferrari and Williams.
Who is he to ask why? People just do what they are told...

#48 gm914

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:16


Ever notice in every conspiracy theory a sniper always shows up at some point??
This shit just got real...

#49 Risil

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:16

Bridgestone did it for Ferrari for a number of years. No one could confirm until years later.
Who needs to be in the know, pirrelli tells truck driver tyres 1,2,3 go to mclaren, redball, and sauber, tyres 4,5 go to Ferrari and Williams.
Who is he to ask why? People just do what they are told...


Everyone knew that when there was a tyre war, the teams that had special agreements got the best tyres. Mclaren even stated it as a reason for going over to Michelin in 2002.

#50 fhaneef

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 15:18

Everyone knew that when there was a tyre war, the teams that had special agreements got the best tyres. Mclaren even stated it as a reason for going over to Michelin in 2002.


They thought it was happening, but couldn't confirm until years later...