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#151 schuey100

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:09

So was thinking about this for a while.

1. There is an argument that the results are somewhat being doctored, Pirelli may be sending over special tyres to teams in a bit to ensure there is a level of unpredictability. The teams don't know they have them because they are randomly allocated, although Pirelli know exactly who are getting them.

It may explain why one weekend one team looks great and the next weekend they're all at sea. The Top teams are always there or there about because of superior downforce, but you can tell with smaller teams. Sauber hasn't been able to replicate their performance from Malaysia, we'll see if Williams can replicate this in Monaco.

2. This adds some weight as F1 is about to go public, and markets look towards a popular brand liked by everyone rather then enthusiast.


1. There is also an argument that super aliens are taking over the bodies different drivers each week and this is why results are unpredictable. The teams don't know because these aliens are rather good at disguising themselves.
2. Definitely, but it's because said aliens are investing in shares themselves and feel that they would make more money if results are mixed up.

Alternatively maybe we're both wrong. Having some proof either way might help us come to a conclusion. But we don't, not even a teeny weeny bit, if we came up with wild conspiracy theories without evidence everytime we wanted we could have some interesting discussions.

Personally I find the alien argument much more entertaining, perhaps we should take that route.

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#152 schuey100

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:10

Hmmm... I think Schumi's pole today has shut down this theory. I'm sure after his comments that he would be the last person to get given the 'better' tyres.

Unless....Pirelli are scared that his comments will gather momentum and they'll get kicked out of f1 :drunk:


This goes very much in favour of my argument, Schumi was taken over by the super alien this week. It's the ONLY explanation.

#153 fhaneef

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:32

http://www.formula1....12/5/13368.html


Sounds like there's more to this conspiracy theory, why would you print a story like this. It's typical of a cover up, let's deny everything
I predict we will have the 6th winner tomorrow proving my theory!!!!!

#154 Muulka

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:36

WTF, if the FIA and the teams asked for a tyre that lasts longer with less deg, they would of but they asked for what we have now..


Hi, first post here. :wave:

I'm pretty sure that I remember Henbrey (Is that his name? Pirelli director) said that at first the tyres were wayyyy to durable; apparently they were getting like 100 laps out of the Toyota.
They could make durable tyres like the indistructi-Stones, but they were asked not to.

Also, the 'cliff' did exist with BS; look at Vettel at Monaco 2009- I was watching it on Sky F1, and he lost like three positions in a lap because his rears completely gave up.

The so-called cospiracy theory is complete rubbish. If they were making a few super tyres, the pace would go up and down during the weekend.
I'm never one for conspiracies; perhaps I'm just really trusting and naive. Not really the worst gtraits in the world to have, are they really?

#155 BinaryDad

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:42

No conspiracy theory in the tires. The simple facts seem to be that Pirelli just haven't done enough testing to have any real clue as to how the tires will behave in race conditions. I still find it mind-boggling that they're putting the responsibility for finding out the operating parameters of the tires, on the teams.

There's nothing dodgy here, other than Pirelli being a bunch of Scrooge McDucks and refusing to invest in proper testing. So the teams are scratching around in the dark.





#156 jjcale

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:44

Sounds like there's more to this conspiracy theory, why would you print a story like this. It's typical of a cover up, let's deny everything
I predict we will have the 6th winner tomorrow proving my theory!!!!!


No frickin way... they actually put up an article to contradict your "theory". :lol:

#157 icecream_man

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 20:54

1. There is also an argument that super aliens are taking over the bodies different drivers each week and this is why results are unpredictable. The teams don't know because these aliens are rather good at disguising themselves.
2. Definitely, but it's because said aliens are investing in shares themselves and feel that they would make more money if results are mixed up.


Actually I probably find that marginally more plausible than the original post..... Can't believe people are actually giving this the time of day :lol:

#158 John Player

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 21:08

When Q2 ended i thought Massa got the special tyres. Imagine if he got pole, this thread would be 300 pages.

#159 ali.unal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 21:14

Sounds like there's more to this conspiracy theory, why would you print a story like this. It's typical of a cover up, let's deny everything
I predict we will have the 6th winner tomorrow proving my theory!!!!!

"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

Otto von Bismarck

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#160 BellisEndis

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:26

No conspiracy theory in the tires. The simple facts seem to be that Pirelli just haven't done enough testing to have any real clue as to how the tires will behave in race conditions. I still find it mind-boggling that they're putting the responsibility for finding out the operating parameters of the tires, on the teams.

There's nothing dodgy here, other than Pirelli being a bunch of Scrooge McDucks and refusing to invest in proper testing. So the teams are scratching around in the dark.



ummm it IS the job of the team to work out the tyres...

#161 BinaryDad

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:45

ummm it IS the job of the team to work out the tyres...


No, it's not. Unless you think every team should have a slew of test rigs, and spend thousands of hours testing the tires to work out their operating parameters.

It's the job of the teams and the tire manufacturer to work out how the data given by Pirelli, applies to their car. But to be honest, Pirelli don't seem to have a clue about their own tires.


#162 mtknot

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:16

No, it's not. Unless you think every team should have a slew of test rigs, and spend thousands of hours testing the tires to work out their operating parameters.

It's the job of the teams and the tire manufacturer to work out how the data given by Pirelli, applies to their car. But to be honest, Pirelli don't seem to have a clue about their own tires.


It is up to the teams to maximise the tyres; it is a development formula.

I don't think these tyres are unpredictable, however they are more susceptible to temperature variances because they have a smaller operating window than last year for sure. What is not predictable is the weather and it seems that whoever is driving under clouds will be the quickest. It explains why there have been shock results over the last few races.

I don't think there is a conspiracy theory at all though; there are too many factors that make the tyres not really a key player in determining anything.

#163 WatchingF1since4yearsold

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:40

lol, I doubt it.

is more that teams are really struggling race to race to predict the best setup for the tyres, so you get a team/driver who get the setup bang on one race but next race they can't get it right for love nor money, makes the championship and stuff more interesting, but I think the main issue is it takes away from actual racing, it's not about who has the best car or who can drive fastest/most consistently, it's literally a case of getting the right set up on the day for the tyres, hence why this season has been rather random so far for most drivers/teams.

#164 BinaryDad

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:07

It is up to the teams to maximise the tyres; it is a development formula.

I don't think these tyres are unpredictable, however they are more susceptible to temperature variances because they have a smaller operating window than last year for sure. What is not predictable is the weather and it seems that whoever is driving under clouds will be the quickest. It explains why there have been shock results over the last few races.

I don't think there is a conspiracy theory at all though; there are too many factors that make the tyres not really a key player in determining anything.


As I said, the teams have to work out how to make the tires work with their cars. I just don't think Pirelli have done enough testing to provide enough data to work from....it's as if Pirelli themselves don't seem to have any sort of clue about the tires, to even give the teams a head up.


#165 fhaneef

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 17:00

I am predicting an eight winner next weekend....This time it could be an old favourite..

You heard it here first, actually you heard it from Pirelli first. How ironic!

#166 Peter3hg

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 17:11

I am predicting an eight winner next weekend....This time it could be an old favourite..

You heard it here first, actually you heard it from Pirelli first. How ironic!


Even if it came true it wouldn't be ironic.

#167 aditya-now

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 17:14

Even if it came true it wouldn't be ironic.


So according to conspiracy theory this time Pirelli allocates the "special" tires to Michael Schumacher? Sounds like Bridgestone days for me, it would disappoint me about Pirelli....


#168 sopa

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 19:02

Even if Pirelli gives special tyres to Schumi, Mercedes still needs not to cock up for once.:D

#169 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 21:18

So according to conspiracy theory this time Pirelli allocates the "special" tires to Michael Schumacher? Sounds like Bridgestone days for me, it would disappoint me about Pirelli....

Oh dear, if you think they'd do that you're an idiot, also there's a difference between Bridgestone working with a team they supply to get the best possible tyre and a supposed conspiracy where Pirelli (who are relied on to supply a the same specification of tyres to everyone on the grid) allocate superior tyres to a driver of their choice to try and affect the result, the first one was above board and happened, the second isn't and hasn't, it sounds nothing like the Bridgestone days. :rolleyes:


:stoned: Although maybe they are to shut him up about their tyres, Michael Schumacher slagging of your tyres can't be good for sales. :stoned:

#170 Octavian

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 21:24

I can't even believe that A) this is a thread, B) that this is even being debated and C) that I've just contributed to it!



#171 ali_M

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 00:32

lol, I doubt it.

is more that teams are really struggling race to race to predict the best setup for the tyres, so you get a team/driver who get the setup bang on one race but next race they can't get it right for love nor money, makes the championship and stuff more interesting, but I think the main issue is it takes away from actual racing, it's not about who has the best car or who can drive fastest/most consistently, it's literally a case of getting the right set up on the day for the tyres, hence why this season has been rather random so far for most drivers/teams.


Spot on ... and what this makes damned difficult to do is to genuinely compare the drivers within and across teams, one of the larger sources of entertainment for me. The satisfaction of a driver/team convincingly demonstrating their superiority over another team on a race weekend. Now, it's about ... 'well, what a good show... McLaren and Lewis got the setup right and they didn't put a foot wrong'. But wait, that was the same they said about Maldonado and Rosberg during their one-off weekends that had even them bragging that they had the championship in the palm of their hands from hence forth.

Then there's the dark side of this fiasco... Jenson Button... He's our hope... the one who's having an inexplicable slump unlike F1 has EVER seen really. Massa is just not good anymore apparently for most. Kimi is not yet over his 2 yr sujourn and Grosjean is 'clearly' better than most would have expected. I don't know what we would have thought of the Hamster if an unknown rookie were in the other McLaren seat. Thank goodness for Button this season. I don't at all like what's happening to him, but the fact that it's happening to him at all and in this fashion is testimony to what this season has been about.

So according to conspiracy theory this time Pirelli allocates the "special" tires to Michael Schumacher? Sounds like Bridgestone days for me, it would disappoint me about Pirelli....


I'm always careful when posters here have to clarify their years of experience watching F1. Your comparison of the Bridgestone days with allocating special tires to Schumi this year is very telling. That one is way off base IMO. Thank goodness I've witnessed both myself to make my own decision.

I can't even believe that A) this is a thread, B) that this is even being debated and C) that I've just contributed to it!


:rotfl:

Edited by ali_M, 19 June 2012 - 00:34.


#172 ashley313

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 17:23

As I said, the teams have to work out how to make the tires work with their cars. I just don't think Pirelli have done enough testing to provide enough data to work from....it's as if Pirelli themselves don't seem to have any sort of clue about the tires, to even give the teams a head up.

The teams need their own data. The pirelli test car is a couple of years old. It isn't Pirelli's job to tell the teams how to best use the tires. Its different for every car and for every driver. Do you think last year Pirelli had a magic setup sheet that they only shared with RBR or something?? They share the basic facts: the tires don't last when you slide them or when you have too great a difference in slip. The teams' difficulty is in controlling those factors with the rest of their package, setup, and driving style.

#173 MGKrebs

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 19:28

I remember Richard Petty's last win. He had 199 wins for a long time, then the 4th of July race comes up, with President Ronald Reagan in attendance: Last lap fender banging with Cale Yarborough, and Petty wins.
It's like somebody wrote a script. It was so perfect it seemed fake. Makes you wonder anyway.

#174 BinaryDad

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 19:46

The teams need their own data. The pirelli test car is a couple of years old. It isn't Pirelli's job to tell the teams how to best use the tires. Its different for every car and for every driver. Do you think last year Pirelli had a magic setup sheet that they only shared with RBR or something?? They share the basic facts: the tires don't last when you slide them or when you have too great a difference in slip. The teams' difficulty is in controlling those factors with the rest of their package, setup, and driving style.

\

Only, the test car isn't where they get the majority of their data from. They get most of the data from a test rig in a nice, controlled environment where they can setup as many operating parameters as they want.

The truth from what I can tell is, Pirelli don't have a clue as to how temperature sensitive the tires are or at least, why they behave so differently at different temperatures and how best to adjust to that. And THAT's the guidance that Pirelli need to give to the teams, but don't seem to be handing out. Either they're spinning around in their chair at the office with a pencil stuck up their arse, without a clue, or have a fair idea but would need to pour more money than they're willing to spend to get the data.



#175 Aieljose

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 21:06

I can't even believe that A) this is a thread, B) that this is even being debated and C) that I've just contributed to it!

You should know better than to never underestimate the lengths people will go to to find some sort of conspiracy in this sport.

#176 Aieljose

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 21:07

I remember Richard Petty's last win. He had 199 wins for a long time, then the 4th of July race comes up, with President Ronald Reagan in attendance: Last lap fender banging with Cale Yarborough, and Petty wins.
It's like somebody wrote a script. It was so perfect it seemed fake. Makes you wonder anyway.

Must be a conspiracy!! :lol:

#177 MGKrebs

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:10

Oh dear, if you think they'd do that you're an idiot, also there's a difference between Bridgestone working with a team they supply to get the best possible tyre and a supposed conspiracy where Pirelli (who are relied on to supply a the same specification of tyres to everyone on the grid) allocate superior tyres to a driver of their choice to try and affect the result, the first one was above board and happened, the second isn't and hasn't, it sounds nothing like the Bridgestone days. :rolleyes:


:stoned: Although maybe they are to shut him up about their tyres, Michael Schumacher slagging of your tyres can't be good for sales. :stoned:


So Bernie (or whoever) invented DRS to create competition and uncertainty, embraced KERS also, has constantly tweaked the rules to eliminate dramatic advantage, restricted testing, added multiple tire compounds.... And none of this is a "conspiracy"? How could anyone think they would NOT screw around with tire allocations if they thought it would help "the show"? How would it be any different than restricting budgets or testing time, which decreases an advantage one team might have over another? Only that it is not explicitly in the rules. But there are a thousand other things not in the rules that might be advantageous too from who gets unloaded from the ship first, to truck parking location. Not so much of a stretch to believe it.

Edited by MGKrebs, 20 June 2012 - 02:11.


#178 Kingshark

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:12

This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read. :rotfl:
So funny that it... makes me wonder? :confused:
Could it actually be? :eek:

#179 ali_M

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:37

So Bernie (or whoever) invented DRS to create competition and uncertainty, embraced KERS also, has constantly tweaked the rules to eliminate dramatic advantage, restricted testing, added multiple tire compounds.... And none of this is a "conspiracy"? How could anyone think they would NOT screw around with tire allocations if they thought it would help "the show"? How would it be any different than restricting budgets or testing time, which decreases an advantage one team might have over another? Only that it is not explicitly in the rules. But there are a thousand other things not in the rules that might be advantageous too from who gets unloaded from the ship first, to truck parking location. Not so much of a stretch to believe it.


All those rule changes and tweaks have been quite different in that they've been applied to all teams and it does try to level the field, removing unfair advantages, thus making the competition closer and less hopeless for teams without massive resources etc. However, this conspiracy speaks of GIVING an unfair advantage, not taking it away.

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#180 Kucki

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:09

I like Pirelli giving good tires to one team, then bad tires to them the next race. It gives us different fast cars every race. It keeps the Championship close, everybody can win. Its great for the show. And as we all know, F1 is all about the show.

Edited by Kucki, 20 June 2012 - 10:09.


#181 MGKrebs

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:09

All those rule changes and tweaks have been quite different in that they've been applied to all teams and it does try to level the field, removing unfair advantages, thus making the competition closer and less hopeless for teams without massive resources etc. However, this conspiracy speaks of GIVING an unfair advantage, not taking it away.


You know that all the other teams actually have to PAY Ferrari for the privilege of racing with them, right?



#182 ashley313

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:20

\

Only, the test car isn't where they get the majority of their data from. They get most of the data from a test rig in a nice, controlled environment where they can setup as many operating parameters as they want.

The truth from what I can tell is, Pirelli don't have a clue as to how temperature sensitive the tires are or at least, why they behave so differently at different temperatures and how best to adjust to that. And THAT's the guidance that Pirelli need to give to the teams, but don't seem to be handing out. Either they're spinning around in their chair at the office with a pencil stuck up their arse, without a clue, or have a fair idea but would need to pour more money than they're willing to spend to get the data.

Do you hear teams complaining that Pirelli isn't giving them enough info? I don't.

Every car will use its tires differently - there are cars on the grid who don't see dramatic differences in performance with big temp swings, and there are teams who do. Its the job of the teams to understand and deal with that. Pirelli can't say this compound works best at temp X, because some cars or some drivers will find it works better at Y for them.

#183 BinaryDad

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:43

Do you hear teams complaining that Pirelli isn't giving them enough info? I don't.

Every car will use its tires differently - there are cars on the grid who don't see dramatic differences in performance with big temp swings, and there are teams who do. Its the job of the teams to understand and deal with that. Pirelli can't say this compound works best at temp X, because some cars or some drivers will find it works better at Y for them.


They don't seem to know how the tires will be affected in differening conditions. I'd say that's a pretty big indicator that it's possible they're not being given the information that they want/need.


#184 ashley313

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 17:33

They don't seem to know how the tires will be affected in differening conditions. I'd say that's a pretty big indicator that it's possible they're not being given the information that they want/need.

Its THEIR JOB to figure that information out for themselves, as its relevant to THEIR cars and THEIR drivers.

#185 ali_M

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 17:51

You know that all the other teams actually have to PAY Ferrari for the privilege of racing with them, right?


This isn't a valid argument there mate. Whether or not other teams should be paying Ferrari directly or indirectly (the actual arrangement) anything is besides the central point here.

Ferrari, like all the front running teams, have a lot of revenue available to them to establish and maintain their competitive edge. They all play be the same rules. Yes, we know that some of the rules have been changed and altered in ways to confer an unfair advantage. However, invariably, it's usually to prevent and not establish runaway dominance by a single team.

What's being proposed is quite the opposite in that teams are being DELIBERATELY offered an unfair advantage. I don't buy it.

#186 BinaryDad

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 18:50

Its THEIR JOB to figure that information out for themselves, as its relevant to THEIR cars and THEIR drivers.


Only, they're most likely not getting the data that they need.



#187 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 19:13

Only, they're most likely not getting the data that they need.

They're getting tons of data every race weekend.

#188 BinaryDad

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 20:04

They're getting tons of data every race weekend.


Tell me, what is this "tons of data" that they're getting? Have you seen it? Can you tell me what sort of data? Can you tell me where this data is coming from? What sort of tests were run to get the data? Can you even tell me if the data they're being given is relevant to the race weekend?

Or are you just pulling a supposition from your backside?


You can give a "customer" who relies on your technology tonnes and tonnes of data if you want. I mean, it's really quite easy to generate that. The real trick is giving the relevant data, and in many cases giving them information is more important. But in order to have that information, you first have to sift through the data yourself and and that takes time and effort, which of course costs money.

I should know, I work exactly in this position for a company that is a technology provider. I've seen what happens when you just hand out data, and it's remarkably similar to what I see this season in F1. You don't need to know about tire construction, and Pacejka curves to see this (although, I do know this stuff and have written tire simulations in the past).


It seems to me that the teams are either suffering from not having enough of the right kind of data or are struggling to interpret the data that they're being given. And in both cases, the responsibility rests solely on the shoulders of the technology provider to sort the situation out.

Edited by BinaryDad, 20 June 2012 - 20:14.


#189 Schumacher7

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 20:16

So Bernie (or whoever) invented DRS to create competition and uncertainty, embraced KERS also, has constantly tweaked the rules to eliminate dramatic advantage, restricted testing, added multiple tire compounds.... And none of this is a "conspiracy"? How could anyone think they would NOT screw around with tire allocations if they thought it would help "the show"? How would it be any different than restricting budgets or testing time, which decreases an advantage one team might have over another? Only that it is not explicitly in the rules. But there are a thousand other things not in the rules that might be advantageous too from who gets unloaded from the ship first, to truck parking location. Not so much of a stretch to believe it.

There is a huge difference between introducing rules that are the same for everyone to create closer competition and giving some teams better tyres than others. I'm also pretty sure it was the teams who decided to use DRS and embrace KERS, and no they're not conspiracies (Conspiracy: A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) as it's all done out in the open, the teams know they are being slowed down (Ferrari after 2004, Red Bull this season etc.) Yes I believe they try and manipulate the rules to create a better show, no I do not think they hinder the competitiveness of teams without their knowledge by supplying inferior tyres or whatever crazy bullshit idea you come up with next, seriously mate I love :smoking: as much as the next guy but stay off the internet whilst high.

#190 Schumacher7

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 20:18

This isn't a valid argument there mate. Whether or not other teams should be paying Ferrari directly or indirectly (the actual arrangement) anything is besides the central point here.

Ferrari, like all the front running teams, have a lot of revenue available to them to establish and maintain their competitive edge. They all play be the same rules. Yes, we know that some of the rules have been changed and altered in ways to confer an unfair advantage. However, invariably, it's usually to prevent and not establish runaway dominance by a single team.

What's being proposed is quite the opposite in that teams are being DELIBERATELY offered an unfair advantage. I don't buy it.

Don't try and bring your common sense in here.

#191 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 20:36

Tell me, what is this "tons of data" that they're getting? Have you seen it? Can you tell me what sort of data? Can you tell me where this data is coming from? What sort of tests were run to get the data? Can you even tell me if the data they're being given is relevant to the race weekend?

Or are you just pulling a supposition from your backside?


You can give a "customer" who relies on your technology tonnes and tonnes of data if you want. I mean, it's really quite easy to generate that. The real trick is giving the relevant data, and in many cases giving them information is more important. But in order to have that information, you first have to sift through the data yourself and and that takes time and effort, which of course costs money.

I should know, I work exactly in this position for a company that is a technology provider. I've seen what happens when you just hand out data, and it's remarkably similar to what I see this season in F1. You don't need to know about tire construction, and Pacejka curves to see this (although, I do know this stuff and have written tire simulations in the past).


It seems to me that the teams are either suffering from not having enough of the right kind of data or are struggling to interpret the data that they're being given. And in both cases, the responsibility rests solely on the shoulders of the technology provider to sort the situation out.

They get their own data, obviously. There's no folder locked up somewhere in Pirelli's HQ with 'Warning: Classified. Secret to Getting the Best out our F1 Tires inside.'

The teams would complain if they weren't being given sufficient information on the tires. There's absolutely nothing to suggest what you're saying is even slightly true, let alone 'most likely'. The tires are simply tempermental. Its all the explanation that is needed.

#192 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:34

Sorry if posted earlier ... Pirelli cracking the barcode - how the F1 tires are allocated.
Which may easily put that thread to end.

Edited by kvarbanov, 21 June 2012 - 06:34.


#193 sharo

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:59

The bar codes allow both the FIA and Pirelli to ensure that the right teams, according to the regulations, are using the correct tyres.

This is from the article. :)
There's always a way and with that old cheat at the wheel of F1 I can't be surprised by anything.

#194 Kucki

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:28

Sorry if posted earlier ... Pirelli cracking the barcode - how the F1 tires are allocated.
Which may easily put that thread to end.



So the FIA decides who gets the better tires for a given weekend. Thats not much better.

Do you really believe in the integrity and 'fair play' of F1. Its like believing in fairytales. F1 will do everything to improve the show, these people dont know shame or what a sport is about, all they know and care about is how to make a profit.

Edited by Kucki, 21 June 2012 - 07:28.


#195 BinaryDad

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:48

They get their own data, obviously. There's no folder locked up somewhere in Pirelli's HQ with 'Warning: Classified. Secret to Getting the Best out our F1 Tires inside.'


I never said that there was. At least try reading what somebody has written for a change, before jumping in with both feet.

What I've been saying is; Pirelli don't seem to have a clue as to how their own tires behave or want to invest the required resources into understanding them and providing proper support to the teams. My basic argument is that there is no conspiracy theory.



The teams would complain if they weren't being given sufficient information on the tires. There's absolutely nothing to suggest what you're saying is even slightly true, let alone 'most likely'. The tires are simply tempermental. Its all the explanation that is needed.


Just because they're not making waves in the press, doesn't mean that they're not complaining to somebody i.e. Pirelli and the FIA. And if they're not making head way, the LAST thing they're going to do is start a war of words in the press and sour relations with the tire manufacturer.

The simple fact that after seven races, the teams still seem to be lacking confidence on how to get the tires to work says plenty to me. It's only the teams fault, if you think that they should invest several million bucks in specialist test rigs and staff to generate their own tire data and staff to interpret that data.



#196 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:56

So the FIA decides who gets the better tires for a given weekend. Thats not much better.

Do you really believe in the integrity and 'fair play' of F1. Its like believing in fairytales. F1 will do everything to improve the show, these people dont know shame or what a sport is about, all they know and care about is how to make a profit.

No, I just don't have the time to believe in conspiracies. FIA gets a batch of identical tires and sends them to random teams. If there was a doubt about that procedure you can be sure that teams would have complained.

#197 Kucki

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:17

No, I just don't have the time to believe in conspiracies. FIA gets a batch of identical tires and sends them to random teams. If there was a doubt about that procedure you can be sure that teams would have complained.


A team or driver that would speak out against the tire lottery would get killed immediately in the F1 press. You either go along with the fraud or get out. Its up to each and every fan to decide for himself whether to believe that what he is seeing is a fair and honest sport or just an entertainment show, a "circus" as they call F1. You dont have to be a crazy conspiracy theoriest to know these people in power positions of F1 are in it to make money first and foremost, ensuring fairness is an attribute that is far far down the list of priorities. F1 is a multibillion dollar business, if turning the sport more into NASCAR / Wrestling type of event results in growth and expansion, then thats were we are headed.

Edited by Kucki, 21 June 2012 - 11:20.


#198 velgajski1

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:23

A team or driver that would speak out against the tire lottery would get killed immediately in the F1 press. You either go along with the fraud or get out. Its up to each and every fan to decide for himself whether to believe that what he is seeing is a fair sport or just a entertainment show. You dont have to be a crazy conspiracy theoriest to know these people in power positions of F1 are in it to make money first and foremost, ensuring fairness is an attribute that is far far down the list of priorities.


And then you have people getting kicked out of teams and things eventually get out because they have no more motivation to be quiet. Let's remember Spygate or Crashgate.

#199 ForzaGTR

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:59

I think people are making far too much of all this tyre business and the so called unpredictable nature of F12012. The top 5 drivers in the WDC race for the 4 fastest teams in F1. Out of the 7 race winners there is only one anomaly, Maldonado and that was largely down to Lewis Hamilton’s DSQ from pole. I'll agree that it is less predictable than recent years but it's not as bad as many people say. It's simply not true that the tyres allow anyone to win a race, 6 out of 7 times one of the top teams has won!

Edited by Olly F1, 21 June 2012 - 11:59.


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#200 montoyasminion

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:17

Must be a conspiracy!! :lol:

Not a conspiracy when its been common knowledge for the past 30 years that he got a lot of help out of his engine department (which was his brother Maurice, whom he promptly threw under the bus) and some misused tires in that race and a lot of help from the officials looking the other way. But that's just how NASCAR was in the 80's. There was a TON of cheating.