145 replies to this topic

[nmansellfan]

I only learnt of Lorenzo through the Grand Prix Legends PC sim - later when I looked deeper into the '67 season, I was shocked to learn of the tradegies that beset the Scuderia that year, including his terrible demise. I think that if Ferari had sent their cars to Kyalami for the first round that season (what was the actual reason for their non-attendance?), it may have been Lorenzo or Chris Amon that took the victory.

In the 'Ferrari 1947-1997' book there is a small, but cracking picture of Lorenzo on opposite lock coming out of Casino Square in the 312/67, showing how hard he was pushing.

Edited by nmansellfan, 24 April 2012 - 14:52.

[Tim Murray]

I think that if Ferari had sent their cars to Kyalami for the first round that season (what was the actual reason for their non-attendance? ...

According to Motor Sport their excuse was that they couldn't get the cars ready in time due to the racing department being rebuilt.

[wagons46]

In early 1962 Bandini came to Australia to drive in the Tasman Series, or the forerunner of that, in the Cooper T53 Maserati. BP had sponsored some of the internationals and allocated drivers to various BP Service Stations around Sydney to prepare their cars.

Bandini was allocated to the BP Boomerang Service Station at Nth Strathfield where a full rebuild of his engine took place. On completion he signalled the local owner and mechanic to give him a push start whereupon he fired up, drove out onto Concord Rd (quite a major Rd) down the wrong side and right into Wellbank St . You could hear all the gear changes as he travelled perhaps 1 mile and returned giving a 'thumbs up' that all was OK.

The noise attracted a number of locals but fortunately not the police. Nowadays.......they would throw the book at him.

They were indeed better days.

[jj2728]

Tomorrow it's 45 years on.
RIP Lorenzo




Copyright JAG

[DoubleM]

Brave and beautiful - so good so many still remember - Lorenzo R.I.P.

[DoubleM]

45 years ago today - Lorenzo R.I.P.

[elansprint72]

He was one of my heroes; I was watching the race on the BBC, it was my 16th birthday. RIP.

[Gary Davies]

All driver deaths are ghastly, but for me, poor Bandini's demise is overwhelmingly sad. Yes I watched the race on the Beeb, admired Denny's drive and Lorenzo's chase and noted him manifestly tiring towards the end. But the nature of the accident, the aftermath, the fact that poor Margherita was expecting and subsequently miscarried. I believe I once saw, in horror, a picture of the car, upturned with Lorenzo still in situ, in a book by a large man who once owned BRM and was sickened at the insensitivity of depicting it.

Yes, this tragedy really got to me.

Edited by Gary Davies, 10 May 2012 - 08:04.

[D-Type]

45 years ago today - Lorenzo R.I.P.

Why didn't you use the "SEARCH" function and post this HERE to avoid cluttering up the place with duplicate threads.

Edited by D-Type, 10 May 2012 - 09:09.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Because he uses "DOUBLE" in his name ?

[john winfield]

Why didn't you use the "SEARCH" function and post this HERE to avoid cluttering up the place with duplicate threads.

Duncan,
Why so aggressive towards a relatively infrequent poster? As far as I can tell, OP did post on the thread you suggest, but also decided to create a thread with 'Bandini' in the title; 'May 10 1967' might not mean anything to some readers I suppose.

I agree that there are lots of Bandini threads, of which many are Bandini / May 1967/ Monaco , but I'm not sure if one is considered 'definitive'.

Back to Lorenzo himself, I had read lots about him in Shell Successes booklets, winning in Austria, achieving lots of good results in sportscars. I managed to see him race at Silverstone in 1965 and, if I remember right, he was on the cover of the International Trophy programme. To see the fire on television was just awful, and to find out from a teacher at primary school later that week that he had died was very upsetting.

[D-Type]

Duncan,
Why so aggressive towards a relatively infrequent poster? As far as I can tell, OP did post on the thread you suggest, but also decided to create a thread with 'Bandini' in the title; 'May 10 1967' might not mean anything to some readers I suppose.

I agree that there are lots of Bandini threads, of which many are Bandini / May 1967/ Monaco , but I'm not sure if one is considered 'definitive'.

Back to Lorenzo himself, I had read lots about him in Shell Successes booklets, winning in Austria, achieving lots of good results in sportscars. I managed to see him race at Silverstone in 1965 and, if I remember right, he was on the cover of the International Trophy programme. To see the fire on television was just awful, and to find out from a teacher at primary school later that week that he had died was very upsetting.

John, did you see who started this thread? Two threads on the same subject within a three weeks is a little excessive, I feel, hence the mild aggression.

This is not in any way a devaluation of Bandini's contribution, merely an attempt to keep the forum from becoming swamped.

Edited by D-Type, 10 May 2012 - 10:01.

[john winfield]

John, did you see who started this thread? Two threads on the same subject within a three weeks is a little excessive, I feel, hence the mild aggression.

This is not in any way a devaluation of Bandini's contribution, merely an attempt to keep the forum from becoming swamped.

Fair enough Duncan. No, I hadn't spotted that! Perhaps Twinny can ask the software magicians to tweak things so that creators of new threads are prompted to consider using existing ones, if their new title includes words already used elsewhere. Not 'a' or 'the', obviously, but you know what I mean! 'Bandini', 'Clark', 'BRM' etc.

[Kpy]

As I understand it the OP started a thread primarily to ask for information on Bandini's father's kidnapping and murder. He then started one to commemorate the anniversary of Bandini's death. If Twinny wants to merge the threads, that's his prerogative.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could remain kind and polite to each other on this forum?

RIP Lorenzo, 45 years on.

[D-Type]

My basic point is that there was already a thread commemorating Bandini's death, admittedly titled with the unhelpful "May 10th 1967" and there may be others as well. So there is absolutely no need to start another one - by all means suggest to Twinny that he renames it.

The multi-thread issue isn't serious in this case which is essentially a tribute thread, but it does matter in the case of a thread involving the exchange of information where parallel threads can cause difficulties. This forum is unusual in that threads do not get archived and there is a wealth of information already on here. It simply isn't fair to those who have gone to the trouble of rooting out information to effectively ask them to do it again or to cause someone else to spend valuable time digging out the same data.

[Kpy]

So where is the information which someone has already dug up about Bandini senior's demise? It would be nice to point the OP in that direction.

Who on earth is bothered by a request to mark Bandini's passing? This was the subject which provoked the rude response.

I was really upset by the aggressive rudeness. I thought we didn't do that here.

[Bjorn Kjer]

So , the members are at it again ?

If the search button is used there are 17 pages of threads where the Bandini name pops up. Most are just with his name mentioned (so is our search system ), some are about the cars , but many are on the Lorenzo himself.

Remember, this forum still turns around without fees , so we cannot expect Twinny sit and merge all those threads , or all the others ( there are many others thatcould do with a merge!).

So we have to do something ourselves , and that is why I many times in the past 5-6 years has tried to explain to members why "a" or "the" name should be used in a threads title to reduce or keep all those floating threads at bay.

OK , with 17 pages , one or two extra threads wont hurt ? Right so , but it also will not make it easier! That's for sure. So much info is here on this forum , but if you go wanting something excact you have to go through all those pages to pick up everything , and the more pages , the longer it takes! I myself would prefer to have 1 click for Bandini,Lorenzo !

[D-Type]

Bjorn,
I think a single thread is too restrictive. I'd like to see something like
Only 1 tribute thread with a meaningful title, say, "May 10th 1967 - Lorenzo Bandini RIP"

Plus threads for specific topics
"Baghetti or Bandini"
"Lorenzo Bandini at Indianapolis"
"Lorenzo Bandini's helmet"
"Kidnap and murder of Bandini's father", or to be a little more general "Lorenzo Bandini's early life"

What annoys me is repeated threads on exactly the same topic or very closely related ones.

At the time I posted my original comment there were two "Tribute" threads on the front page about three threads apart - ie someone was "cluttering up the place with duplicated threads" hence my peppery response.

[David M. Kane]

I'll never forget that day. What a horrible experience for his wife. RIP.

[Doug Nye]

So...getting back to the point then, has anyone got anything interesting to add about poor Bandini...?

DCN

[Vicuna]

I was always interested to read about the affection Chris Amon had for Lorenzo - they won Daytona and Monza together and had seemingly looked forward to making it 3 from 3 at Le Mans.

The YouTube tributes are interesting but I can't bring myself to watch to the end...

DoubleM - keep posting and don't be put off by the increasing number of grumpy old men here desperate to tell people off - 'No, no, no - you don't want to do it that way, you want to do it this way...'

They are an inspiration of how not to grow old.

Sadly Lorenzo, and so many other heroes from that time never got the chance - the good old days weren't always good as Billy Joel reminded us.

[Russ Snyder]

So...getting back to the point then, has anyone got anything interesting to add about poor Bandini...?

DCN

Mr Nye

I enjoy the 1966 movie 'Grand Prix' and some member's of the community not familiar with that movie may find it interesting to see Mr Bandini in his element, so to say. IIRC, he is in the driver's meeting's. He might not say much, it has been a few since I have pleasured myself with the viewing, but he does have camera time, as well as other very well know driver's from the era.

I am working on project about another Bandini. I just need the time and dedication to piece it together properly. The secondary sources are vaugue from approx 100 year's ago. Mom dies during birth, Dad dies at 6 months, great Grams dies as he turns 10 and he inherits 1.6 mill us dollar's circa 1907, leave's orphanage...follow's dream to race auto's. Meet's fate at 1919 Indy 500. The New York Times from that day states: "Both men were STRAPPED in their seats and were burned beyond recognition". ....LA TIMES claims that at well. It is true that the car exploded and overturned in turn 2, yet the first recorded use of a seat belt at the Indy 500 was 1941 and Joie Chitwood.

Beyond that one minor point to most, 1897-1919 is a different era of speech, attituted and look. I understand the monumental task ahead but some of us can dream when sitting behind our workstation of boredom.

Have a good one.
Russ Snyder

[Doug Nye]

1 - I only ever expect my doctor, policemen and callers to address me as 'Mr Nye'. Here it's 'Doug'.

2 - I remember years ago being intrigued by the notion that the luckless Bandini was 'strapped' in his seat. One distinct possibility is the dreaded mispnirt...that's right, 'strapped' being typeset in error, instead of 'trapped', and possibly - if it appears in more than one newspaper - in the original news-release bulletin or agency tape which the reporters were quoting.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 11 May 2012 - 08:40.

[LittleChris]

it has been a few since I have pleasured myself with the viewing

The mind boggles

Good luck with your project though Russ.

[DoubleM]

So , the members are at it again ?

If the search button is used there are 17 pages of threads where the Bandini name pops up. Most are just with his name mentioned (so is our search system ), some are about the cars , but many are on the Lorenzo himself.

Remember, this forum still turns around without fees , so we cannot expect Twinny sit and merge all those threads , or all the others ( there are many others thatcould do with a merge!).

So we have to do something ourselves , and that is why I many times in the past 5-6 years has tried to explain to members why "a" or "the" name should be used in a threads title to reduce or keep all those floating threads at bay.

OK , with 17 pages , one or two extra threads wont hurt ? Right so , but it also will not make it easier! That's for sure. So much info is here on this forum , but if you go wanting something excact you have to go through all those pages to pick up everything , and the more pages , the longer it takes! I myself would prefer to have 1 click for Bandini,Lorenzo !

I wanted to mark the tragic anniversary anniversary of the passing of Lorenzo Bandini. I originally tried to add to an existing thread but - for some reason - it didn't show up. I am a bit new to posting on this site so I guessed it was probably my fault. Wrongly, of course, as that post has now shown up! However, as I still wanted to pay my respects, I started another. I didn't just want to add to my earlier request for information on Lorenzo's early life as I thought this should be a separate topic. If I was wrong in doing this, then I apologise again.

Since finding this site some months ago, it has been one of the most informative discoveries I have made. I have been staggered by the sometimes obscure information that has been produced and the lengths that members have gone to provide it. To all those who have added to my sum of knowledge, I thank you. The last thing on my mind was to infuriate or alienate anybody - however I have to say that should some 'newbie' ask I dumb question on black and white photography, or early Pentax cameras, on the sites I more usually frequent, the response is often similar! Shamefacedly, I have to confess that sometimes it has been mine!! my grandchildren don't call me 'Grumpy' for nothing!

So, I will try to be more careful in using the site - yes, I do know about the 'Search' function - and how I post.

Mike.

[D-Type]

Asd the person who leapt on you for opening a new thread, all I can do is apologise for being overly aggresssive. On my screen the new thread was about two away from the old [tribute] one and I'm afraid I saw red and fired from the hip..

I think what probably happened was that after you added your post to the existing thread, the system somehow reverted to the cached version of the front page, ie the one that didn't show your latest addition. From similar experiences, I sometimes re-openthe thread to check my new post is there or refresh the front page (hit F5) which gnerally shows it.

I see your original thread wandered off topic, which is not unusual here, I hope you do get an answer as I would also like to know.

[D-Type]

This May will be 45 years on since the death of Lorenzo Bandini at Monaco. Unfortunately I am not sufficiently fluent in Italian to have read any of the books published in Italian about him - though I have, of course, read through the relevant postings on this site and other material. What interests me about Bandini is the struggle from his earliest years and the almost overwhelming odds that he overcame to reach his position of No 1 at Ferrari.

From the time he spent working for Sig. Freddi - including the occasions when he slept in the back of a car in the garage because he didn't have any other accommodation - and through his earliest racing years it can clearly be seen that he had nothing handed to him. Unlike others, for example Scarfiotti, Bandini was both fated and determined to achieve his dream through his own efforts.

I understand that whilst Lorenzo was born in Libya, to where the family had 'emigrated' through some state-sponsored scheme, the family returned to Italy shortly before the Italian participation in the war started and his father managed a hotel. At some point Bandini's father was kidnapped and murdered. I appreciate that this happened either in late 1944 or early 1945 and that records of that confused time are few. However, perhaps somebody more familiar with the story or the early years of Bandini's life could shed some light on the affair - perhaps someone who has read and understood any of the published Italian works.

I had seen Bandini at the 1967 Race of Champions and, until lap 82, considered myself fortunate to have been at Monaco on May 7th. that year. It may seem trivial to some but things were never the same afterwards and the similar deaths of Schlesser, Courage, Williamson only strengthened that initial opinion.

I thank, in advance, anybody who can inform me further about the earliest years of the man who was my first adult hero and about whom I frequently find myself thinking of late.

Does anybody have any answers to these questions about Bandini's early life?

[DoubleM]

Asd the person who leapt on you for opening a new thread, all I can do is apologise for being overly aggresssive. On my screen the new thread was about two away from the old [tribute] one and I'm afraid I saw red and fired from the hip..

I think what probably happened was that after you added your post to the existing thread, the system somehow reverted to the cached version of the front page, ie the one that didn't show your latest addition. From similar experiences, I sometimes re-openthe thread to check my new post is there or refresh the front page (hit F5) which gnerally shows it.

I see your original thread wandered off topic, which is not unusual here, I hope you do get an answer as I would also like to know.

No problem. Thank you for the tips and I'll try to bear them in mind - another Post-it note on the lap-top then!

I also much appreciate you 're-booting' my query about Lorenzo's early life.

Mike

[vale61]

Hello, this seems to be a good summary of Lorenzo's life : http://www.f1passion...lota-piu-amato/ it's in Italian (I've tried to use google traslator and it seems quite good) .

... the father suddenly disappeared (only after it was discovered that he had been taken prisoner and shot) ...

Is not clear why, when and who shoted his father.

I'll try to find something else.

Sorry for my English.

Regards Vale.

Edited by vale61, 11 May 2012 - 12:19.

[Vicuna]

Asd the person who leapt on you for opening a new thread, all I can do is apologise for being overly aggresssive. On my screen the new thread was about two away from the old [tribute] one and I'm afraid I saw red and fired from the hip..

I think what probably happened was that after you added your post to the existing thread, the system somehow reverted to the cached version of the front page, ie the one that didn't show your latest addition. From similar experiences, I sometimes re-openthe thread to check my new post is there or refresh the front page (hit F5) which gnerally shows it.

I see your original thread wandered off topic, which is not unusual here, I hope you do get an answer as I would also like to know.

No!

You didn't just fire from the hip - you went on and on. Others politely suggested you back off but you went with four shots - and then a casual 'I see your original thread wandered off topic' - poor Double M - all these rules to learn, so little time. Why even bother with the "overly aggressive" thing anyway?

I'll now wander back to the topic - on 10 May 1967 Lorenzo should have been at Indy..if only eh.

[Bjorn Kjer]

You should have done that a couple of mails back............!

[DoubleM]

Hello, this seem to be a good summary of Lorenzo's life : http://www.f1passion...lota-piu-amato/ it's in Italian (I've tried to use google traslator and it seems quite good) .

... the father suddenly disappeared (only after it was discovered that he had been taken prisoner and shot) ...

Is not clear why, when and who shot his father.

I'll try to find something else.

Sorry for my English.

Regards Vale.

Hello too. Thanks for the pointer - an interesting read. I'm familiar with background of the period and maybe I'm being hopeful in wishing to find a clear answer through the fog of history and the 'civil war'. I just think that there are frustratingly few pointers to this episode that must have been so instrumental in shaping the character of Lorenzo Bandini.

As a driver, and from what I have learnt of him as a man, he was both brave and determined. He was, I feel, on the verge of a major breakthrough as it seems that he had found both inner peace and peace with his surroundings during the early months of 1967. The history of politics at Ferrari aside - and how much did he feel that the victories at Daytona and Monza, together with the 2nd at the Race of Champions, had cemented his position there? - was the appearance of Scarfiotti at Monaco responsible for it unravelling again? IIRC wasn't Scarfiotti supposed to be training for the Targa Florio?

I look forward to anything else you are able to find out.

No problem with your English - wish my Italian was as good!

Thanks again and regards,
Mike

[wagons46]

[/img]

In early 1962 Bandini came to Australia to drive in the Tasman Series, or the forerunner of that, in the Cooper T53 Maserati. BP had sponsored some of the internationals and allocated drivers to various BP Service Stations around Sydney to prepare their cars.

Bandini was allocated to the BP Boomerang Service Station at Nth Strathfield where a full rebuild of his engine took place. On completion he signalled the local owner and mechanic to give him a push start whereupon he fired up, drove out onto Concord Rd (quite a major Rd) down the wrong side and right into Wellbank St . You could hear all the gear changes as he travelled perhaps 1 mile and returned giving a 'thumbs up' that all was OK.

The noise attracted a number of locals but fortunately not the police. Nowadays.......they would throw the book at him.

They were indeed better days.

3/4376

And a little bit of photographic proof of the story.

[Russ Snyder]

The mind boggles

Good luck with your project though Russ.

lol...I am glad someone had fun with that line.

thanks little Chris. The story is there. It is putting the fragments together to make a watchable/likeable script for the throng of non-racing fans.

Doug - thank you for thoughts. I appreciate the knowledge and insight you give to us.

[David McKinney]

Wagons - your photo has completely thrown me

Bandini raced the Centro-Sud lowline (T53) in the Australian internationals, as several photos prove

But the car in your photo is an earlier T51

The team took the T53 and a T51 to the NZ internationals, during which the older car was sold to Johnny Mansel and destroyed at Dunedin in Mansel's fatal accident

Your photo shows they must also have had a second T51 Down Under - something I'd never heard of. I wonder if it was in NZ and Australia as a spare, or was flown to Australia either as a back-up car for Bandini or, more likely, in the hope of selling it

[jeffbee]

So...getting back to the point then, has anyone got anything interesting to add about poor Bandini...?

DCN

Anyway - moving on, so there I was at Brands Hatch, as a spotty teenager, for the 1963 Guards Trophy race. In those days, before things became more professional and business orientated, mere proles like us were allowed to wander around the paddock, post race, to get autographs and see the drivers. We met Bandini and he was only too pleased to give his autograph. He had just finished 1st in class, driving a Ferrari LMB, and when I congratulated him he shrugged his shoulders and smiled ruefully, perhaps wishing he'd finished a little further up the field.

Like so many others here, he was one of my childhood heroes and the Monaco GP in 67 was a black day indeed.

[ellrosso]

Great photo Wagon! Boomerang Servo were connected to Spencer Martin's early model weren't they? Interesting how Lorenzo copped quite a lot of flak when he took out Graham Hill in the 1964 Mexican GP (totally by accident) - wouldn't even be a blip on the radar these days.......

Edited by ellrosso, 28 June 2012 - 22:29.

[wagons46]

Great photo Wagon! Boomerang Servo were connected to Spencer Martin's early model weren't they?

Yes, in fact that is the Holden in the photo, before it was painted it's more familiar green and yellow along side the Prad that Spencer also drove.

[ellrosso]

Thanks D-Type. Good to know.

[DoubleM]

Another year gone....after such promise at Daytona, Brands Hatch and Monza. We will never forget your courage, style and humanity.
Mike

[jj2728]

R.I.P. Lorenzo. Another year gone by.
Will hoist a glass of vino sta sera.

[charles r]

RIP Lorenzo Bandini.

[DoubleM]

I have a .pdf file - if I remember it came from the Ferrari World site - called 'Lorenzo Bandini - A Broken Dream' but unsure as to how to post this so that it remains a readable document and not just the first page....mind you that's a great pic! If anybody is interested and can give me any pointers I would be happy to post it - presuming there are no copyright issues. Would post the link but Googling 'Ferrari World' just brings up some site in Abu Dhabi.

I'm still interested to hear from anyone who has any information as to the fate of Lorenzo's father but I realise that Italy at that time was not somewhere that generates clear history.

Thanks in advance for any help with either.

Mike

[Sharman]

I only met him a couple of times, 54 years ago now, at the 'Ring and at Cadours. As with many of the other FJ contestants I never thought that they would arrive as GP drivers, Lorenzo didn't shine in FJ probably due to his choice of car, (I don't know actually if it was his choice, he was under the Madunina banner), but he was to prove more successful than most of those early exponents.

[DoubleM]

On this day, once again, I reflect on what was taken from us on the day Lorenzo lost his greatest and final battle.  An open, honest and gentle man who would, sadly, have found no place in the commercial circus our beloved sport has become.  He continues to live with us in our memories.  Mike.

[DoubleM]

Another year - a gallant warrior who lost his final battle so many years ago, but we will never forget.

Mike