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Top 20 Greatest F1 Drivers of all time - BBC list [split]


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#151 as65p

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 19:57

Lewis is doing great this year so far. :)


:lol: :up:

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#152 tifosiMac

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:02

That might be Sig. material..."Alonso and Vettel -better than you know who- certified by the BBC". :lol:

Im surprised the BBC havent got Button and Vettel at the top anyway. They love those two. It's only EJ that ever compliments Lewis when I'm watching :)

#153 as65p

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:09

There are variables for all situations but whereas I am more lenient in my analysis for Hamilton, you are for Alonso. I think the point I was making was clear and true for all the top drivers without picking out and analysing specific incidents and situations. :)


Well, I agree that they all have weaknesses, but I don't agree they are all the same in any given situation.

#154 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:13

We're in danger of veering completely off-topic, given that only numbers 20-15 are currently known we ought to stick with what we know rather than speculate on the possible positioning of Vettel, Alonso & Schumacher (assuming they are going to be in the top 15). Should they appear, that will be the time to debate their respective position in relation to the rest of the selection.

The BBC list is controversial of course because just like this forum, it's opinion based. However we can stick to the acknowledged facts rather than wandering off into the realms of speculation. We especially should avoid 2007 discussions here!

I'd like to keep going on this topic because each release should provoke some debate, it would be good if we maintained a sensible, pragmatic approach to it rather than the apparent need for anyone to mention "Lewis Hamilton" and the thread (regardless of context) to plummet into a pro/anti agenda bash fest.

I will check over the recent posts and assess what, if any edits/deletions need to be made for going off-topic or any of the other regular transgressions. (Note: Reports have been minimal so I don't expect too much work :p)

#155 Mr2s

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:19


I look forward to seeing how high the drivers schumacher fought with and pipped to championships are rated. Surely anyone who ran him close and won a title themselves, will be among these greats.

Piquet, Prost, Mansell and Senna all took a ridiculous amount of points of each other and they would all be in my top 10. Mansell is usually underrated due to only winning 1 WDC. But with the luck of say schumacher, would have had 3 or 4.

#156 Fox1

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:22

Well, yeah, ironic indeed that you think you're objective. :drunk:

But agreed, Alonso never fulfilled his potential in the whole of 2007, but not continually for the same reasons. Glad we arrived at a point that put's Hamiltons massive zero point WDC table victory into perspective, finally. :up: :D

There's a memorable quote from a Great movie that says: "It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning."

..and no, it wasn't Senna.

Edited by Fox1, 23 May 2012 - 20:24.


#157 jj2728

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:44

And yet chief F1 writer Andrew Benson, following F1 for 17 years, has put Hamilton ahead of Brabham. Shocking really. :down:


That says it all 'following F1 for 17 years'. I'm surprised he knows who Jack Brabham is.......

#158 Wander

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:52

That says it all 'following F1 for 17 years'. I'm surprised he knows who Jack Brabham is.......


Hilarious. That's hardly longer than I have followed the sport and I'm 20.

#159 slmk

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:59

I'm not entirely sure I agree. I agree to an extent that to have such expectations all the time would be unrealistic, especially with the strength of the field as you say, the closeness of it too.

But I don't think he has replicated his 2007 form fully yet. Ironically I feel his weakest season was in fact his championship winning year. Personally, I think you can ask a bit more than being one of the best, and that is to be the best.

My opinion is that Alonso is the current best, and Hamilton technically beat him in his debut year, so perhaps my expectations are higher of him. That is to say, I am more disappointed when I see him underperform compared to say Massa, of whom I expect it.


I disagree. I think we can safely say that 2011 is his weakest season now. 2008 was a season filled with very high "highs" and very low "lows"; Germany, Silverstone, China - high // Canada, Bahrain - low ... and of course he got slapped with ridiculous (or at the very least, highly arguable/questionable) penalties like Spa and Fuji 2008.


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#160 britishtrident

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:43

They should not include any current drivers in the list...it will only make some of them and their fans more unbearable...



Yes :up:
I takes at least 15 years after a driver retires or dies to get fair view of a drivers rank, if for no other reason than it allows the rabid fans time to grow up a bit. For evidence we need only look at how much Senna has slipped down the rankings, probably too far but like Schumacher he damaged his own reputation. In the end it really should boil down to how a driver was rated by his peers.




#161 aditya-now

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:48

Thats a joke tbh, he's yet to prove himself anywhere near the 4 below him.


Lewis on 15th, ahead of three times WDCs Sir Jack Brabham, Nelson Piquet, two times WDC Emmo and even ahead of Jochen Rindt is a joke - well, where he stands relative to Jochen can be argued. Only Graham Hill could be considered lower, as he was not that exiting in his driving, but then we have Graham's Monaco record......so I take the positioning of Lewis, who is behaving more mature the first time in his career in 2012, ahead of those great drivers as one of the typical move by journalists and media to endear themselves to present days fans.

As was said above, there went the credibility of this list....

#162 Massa

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 14:39

I can honestly say I don't rate Kimi up there with Seb, Lewis and Alonso. He may be fast and a WDC but he'll always be the guy who lost to Massa who is now getting destroyed by Alonso for the third year in a row. I know comparing drivers based on team mates is a foolish way of proving which driver is the best (Buttoneer even created a specific thread mocking it) but Massa has performed so abysmally against Alonso I think it deserves to be taken into consideration.



No.

Why ? Because you said it yourself :

I know comparing drivers based on team mates is a foolish way of proving which driver is the best


Massa 2010-2012 is not the same than Massa 2006-2009. Like Hamilton 2007-2010 was not the same Hamilton 2011.

#163 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 14:57

Yes, even the BBC, who certainly are not Schumacher fans, will put him up there. BTW I'm not a Schumacher fan either.
I think Autosport made a list some years ago and they put Schumacher in second.

Edited by MightyMoose, 24 May 2012 - 15:11.
removed deleted quote, very much off topic at this time


#164 Cesc

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:04

Well, I would put Schumacher in the top 5, the stats are so brutal that you cannot ignore that. Alonso in the top 10 (5th to 10th probably), Raikkonen, Vettel and Hamilton in the top 20 (in that order), and Button not higher than 25.

Button was nowhere during the first part of his career, but he won the championship in a similar circumstances that Nicky Hayden won his MotoGP championship in 2006. He's a fine driver, a very competent one, but I wouldn't rate him in the same league than Lewis and Vettel (despite the punctual 2011 standings). I expect Lewis to have a much better record than Button when he had the same number of races. For me Button is not better than Webber, for example.

By the way, I've found this list:
http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=1

Somehow it seems obsolete to me, but I can't find a creation date.

Edited by Cesc, 24 May 2012 - 15:09.


#165 MarcelBrDirani

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:07

Yes, even the BBC, who certainly are not Schumacher fans, will put him up there. BTW I'm not a Schumacher fan either.
I think Autosport made a list some years ago and they put Schumacher in second.



Schumacher in second is way worse than comparing him to Andrea de Cesaris, im my opinion. But i understand the weight of "results, no matter the circunstances" when judging drivers.



#166 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:11

Well, I would put Schumacher in the top 5, the stats are so brutal that you cannot ignore that. Alonso in the top 10 (5th to 10th probably), Raikkonen, Vettel and Hamilton in the top 20 (in that order), and Button not higher than 25.

Button was nowhere during the first part of his career, but he won the championship in a similar circumstances that Nicky Hayden won his MotoGP championship in 2006. He's a fine driver, a very competent one, but I wouldn't rate him in the same league than Lewis and Vettel (despite the punctual 2011 standings). I expect Lewis to have a much better record than Button when he had the same number of races. For me Button is not better than Webber, for example.


Raikkonen higher than both Vettel and Hamilton? No chance. He's older than them and hasn't won more than them. He hasn't proved himself to be better either.

#167 MightyMoose

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:14

Everyone, please note that we don't wish to see speculation on who is to come in this list, please concentrate on the drivers mentioned so far.

When & IF a driver appears, you can all feel free to debate his position in the list. Till then you'll have to work with what the BBC have given you.

This thread has the potential to see you all through the dark winter months with plenty of opportunity to debate the whole list and assess if any current drivers could force themselves on it, or adjust position up or down.

#168 Group B

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:16

Schumacher in second is way worse than comparing him to Andrea de Cesaris, im my opinion. But i understand the weight of "results, no matter the circunstances" when judging drivers.

So are you implying that anyone placing MS in, say, the top 4 is either incapable of, or unwilling to, factor in circumstances?

#169 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:18

My personal order of those five (excluding LH as he's a current driver)

1-Brabham
2-Piquet
3-Graham Hill
4-Fittipaldi
5-Rindt

Between Piquet and Hill I think it is too close to call, I had a lot of doubts. Anyway, it's really difficult to make a list like this. What do you think?


I quote myself then.

#170 Pudu

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:51

...This thread has the potential to see you all through the dark winter months ...


:rotfl:


#171 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 16:39

Everyone, please note that we don't wish to see speculation on who is to come in this list, please concentrate on the drivers mentioned so far.

When & IF a driver appears, you can all feel free to debate his position in the list. Till then you'll have to work with what the BBC have given you.

This thread has the potential to see you all through the dark winter months with plenty of opportunity to debate the whole list and assess if any current drivers could force themselves on it, or adjust position up or down.


It seems there's need to quote this.

#172 Skinnyguy

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 18:49

Well, I would put Schumacher in the top 5, the stats are so brutal that you cannot ignore that. Alonso in the top 10 (5th to 10th probably), Raikkonen, Vettel and Hamilton in the top 20 (in that order), and Button not higher than 25.

Button was nowhere during the first part of his career, but he won the championship in a similar circumstances that Nicky Hayden won his MotoGP championship in 2006. He's a fine driver, a very competent one, but I wouldn't rate him in the same league than Lewis and Vettel (despite the punctual 2011 standings). I expect Lewis to have a much better record than Button when he had the same number of races. For me Button is not better than Webber, for example.

By the way, I've found this list:
http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=1

Somehow it seems obsolete to me, but I can't find a creation date.


Nice to see someone with perpective and not the you´re as good as your last race/season nonsense. Button has had an up and down career, Vettel and Lewis have huge talent but haven´t been long enough around, and Alonso and Räikkönen must be on top of them because of their amazing careers until this point.

Agree on everything about current drivers, except I´d put Schumacher P1.


#173 jrg19

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18281041

Hakkinen number 14 in BBCs greatest driver countdown.

#174 joshb

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:42

Those 3 years of Mika v Michael really were great. I was lucky enough to be just getting into F1 at that time.



#175 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:12

Great driver, but placing him ahead of Piquet and Brabham is probably too much.

#176 mursuka80

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:15

Great driver, but placing him ahead of Piquet and Brabham is probably too much.


I think the circumstances of Mikas career weighed in positioning. The man was in a coma and was literally seconds away from death and to come back and do what he did is inspiring.

#177 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:26

I think the circumstances of Mikas career weighed in positioning. The man was in a coma and was literally seconds away from death and to come back and do what he did is inspiring.


Maybe. But for the moment we have a clear pattern in this list, McLaren drivers (Hamilton, Hakkinen and Fittipaldi) higher than they should be :rotfl: (in comparison to the other drivers listed I mean)

#178 devonjaks

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:50

Mika should not even be in the top 20. Extremely over rated driver. Barely beat Michael despite a significantly better car, then barely beat Eddie Irvine despite a significantly better car, and only ever had succes when he had the best car over 3 seasons in his career, and was not much quicker than David Coulthard, and beaten by him over a season twice, plus Johney Herbert beat him at Lotus.

Edited by devonjaks, 05 June 2012 - 11:03.


#179 Juggles

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:56

Maybe. But for the moment we have a clear pattern in this list, McLaren drivers (Hamilton, Hakkinen and Fittipaldi) higher than they should be :rotfl: (in comparison to the other drivers listed I mean)


As far as conspiracy theories go that's a weak one. Hamilton should make the top 20 for his 2007 season alone, it remains one of the most impressive achievements in F1 history. At this stage, either Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all make the list or none of them do. Obviously Schumacher will be top 5.

Hakkinen and Fittipaldi's respective impacts on F1 go beyond their two WDCs each. Hakkinen was the only ray of hope standing against Schumacher domination in the early years. Fittipaldi would likely have won more championships but started his own (rubbish) team. Fittipaldi is just behind Piquet which I think is reasonable. Neither were known for their speed but rather their cunning. They were both in the right place at the right time for their championships.

I do agree with you that Brabham should be higher though. Starting your own team and then winning the championship with it is a fantastic story. I think he should be in the top 10 because the title, "top 20 Greatest F1 Drivers," suggests that impact on the sport is one of the things taken into account.

How far up the list do you believe Brabham should be?

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#180 Spillage

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:16

Mika should not even be in the top 20. Extremely over rated driver. Barely beat Michael despite a significantly better car, then barely beat Eddie Irvine despite a significantly better car, and only ever had succes when he had the best car over 3 seasons in his career, and was not much quicker than David Coulthard, and beaten by him over a season twice, plus Johney Herbert beat him at Lotus.

I actually think if anything, he is an extremely underrated driver. Consecutive world championships, the only driver of the era who could really push MSC, and yet I seem to hardly ever see him high up on these 'Greatest Ever' lists. That said, he did only have three really great seasons, and for that reason I would rank him beneath Piquet and Brabham.

#181 devonjaks

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:21

I actually think if anything, he is an extremely underrated driver. Consecutive world championships, the only driver of the era who could really push MSC,


That's not true though. Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve also pushed and beat Michael in the very same era. The only difference between Mika and them is he had a better car for a bit longer. Villenueve beat Michael in 96 and 97. The perception of Mika is skewed because at that time the F1 world was DESPERATE for a true Schumacher rival, so they basically manufactured one.

#182 smoothcrim

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:36

Jaques and Hill had a much better car than Schuey.

Haks Mclaren and Schu's Ferrari were pretty evenly matched especially in 99 and 2000.

Couldnt fault Hakkinen as a person and he was very clean on the track.His ranking seems about right unlike Hamiltons lol.

#183 devonjaks

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:39

Jaques and Hill had a much better car than Schuey.

Haks Mclaren and Schu's Ferrari were pretty evenly matched especially in 99 and 2000.



How do know Mika also didnt have a much better car than Michael? (he did) Because you just assumed he was a better driver than Jaques and Hill?

#184 smoothcrim

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:44

Because by the middle of 98 Ferrari had got their act together,their v10 was developing nicely and if it wasnt for Michael breaking his leg in '99 he probably would of won the WDC.

During the 98 season the Mclaren was definetely the better car.

And Hakkinen was certainly a better driver than Jaques.

Edited by smoothcrim, 05 June 2012 - 11:46.


#185 devonjaks

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:50

Because by the middle of 98 Ferrari had got their act together,their v10 was developing nicely and if it wasnt for Michael breaking his leg in '99 he probably would of won the WDC.

During the 98 season the Mclaren was definetely the better car.

And Hakkinen was certainly a better driver than Jaques.


Just because Ferrari closed the performance gap does not mean the cars were closley matched. The Mclaren was still much better, it was just miles and miles better at the start of the seasons, like 1 second a lap faster. I never saw much to suggest Mika was better than JV. Both were only successful with dominant cars, and both did nothing without them.

Edited by devonjaks, 05 June 2012 - 11:50.


#186 Watkins74

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:09

As far as conspiracy theories go that's a weak one. Hamilton should make the top 20 for his 2007 season alone, it remains one of the most impressive achievements in F1 history. At this stage, either Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all make the list or none of them do. Obviously Schumacher will be top 5.

Hakkinen and Fittipaldi's respective impacts on F1 go beyond their two WDCs each. Hakkinen was the only ray of hope standing against Schumacher domination in the early years. Fittipaldi would likely have won more championships but started his own (rubbish) team. Fittipaldi is just behind Piquet which I think is reasonable. Neither were known for their speed but rather their cunning. They were both in the right place at the right time for their championships.

I do agree with you that Brabham should be higher though. Starting your own team and then winning the championship with it is a fantastic story. I think he should be in the top 10 because the title, "top 20 Greatest F1 Drivers," suggests that impact on the sport is one of the things taken into account.

How far up the list do you believe Brabham should be?

The Hamilton one was just plain laughable but to dismiss a 3xWDC as being in the right place at the right time is sad.

#187 Juggles

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 15:58

The Hamilton one was just plain laughable but to dismiss a 3xWDC as being in the right place at the right time is sad.


You're right, that was over the top on my part. However, I do maintain that from what I have read about Piquet he is flattered by three WDCs. Mansell only won one championship but they were very closely matched. Mansell was generally the quicker driver during their time together. In 1986 they drew on qualifying head to head but in 1987 (the year Piquet won his third title) Mansell was ahead on Saturday ten times to Piquet's four.

As for my comment about Hamilton: "Hamilton should make the top 20 for his 2007 season alone." This statement I stand by, so I leave it up to you to explain why it is "plain laughable." Preferably with more than one sentence.

#188 jjcale

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 16:20

You're right, that was over the top on my part. However, I do maintain that from what I have read about Piquet he is flattered by three WDCs. Mansell only won one championship but they were very closely matched. Mansell was generally the quicker driver during their time together. In 1986 they drew on qualifying head to head but in 1987 (the year Piquet won his third title) Mansell was ahead on Saturday ten times to Piquet's four.

As for my comment about Hamilton: "Hamilton should make the top 20 for his 2007 season alone." This statement I stand by, so I leave it up to you to explain why it is "plain laughable." Preferably with more than one sentence.


There in lies the problem... Piquet is and was massively underrated... in this country (the UK) at any rate. And his feud with Mansell has not helped his reputation here. You would think the guy had horns from some of the stuff they say about him.

F1 was a different sport back then... it was not about sprint racing in Piquet's day. He was a master of the formula he raced in... its not fair to retropectively take that away from him.

#189 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 16:36

You're right, that was over the top on my part. However, I do maintain that from what I have read about Piquet he is flattered by three WDCs. Mansell only won one championship but they were very closely matched. Mansell was generally the quicker driver during their time together. In 1986 they drew on qualifying head to head but in 1987 (the year Piquet won his third title) Mansell was ahead on Saturday ten times to Piquet's four.

As for my comment about Hamilton: "Hamilton should make the top 20 for his 2007 season alone." This statement I stand by, so I leave it up to you to explain why it is "plain laughable." Preferably with more than one sentence.


If Piquet is flattered by 3 WDC then why Mansell is going to be way ahead of him in this BBC list? It is not Piquet who is overrated, it is Mansell  ;)
And you asked me about Brabham in another post, it's difficult to say but I agree with you, he could be Top 10.

#190 E.B.

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 17:14

There in lies the problem... Piquet is and was massively underrated... in this country (the UK) at any rate. And his feud with Mansell has not helped his reputation here. You would think the guy had horns from some of the stuff they say about him.


Piquet at his peak was considered the best in the world, an accolade never bestowed upon Mansell. In their time as team mates however, Mansell was clearly superior. Much to my annoyance.


#191 1Devil1

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 17:44

That's not true though. Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve also pushed and beat Michael in the very same era. The only difference between Mika and them is he had a better car for a bit longer. Villenueve beat Michael in 96 and 97. The perception of Mika is skewed because at that time the F1 world was DESPERATE for a true Schumacher rival, so they basically manufactured one.


Hill and Villneuve had far better cars than Hakkinen. Mika was a great driver and won minimum one race in 5 consecutive years from 1997-2001. He was faster than Senna in some qualifyings, his one lap pace was unbelievable. In 2000 and in nearly equal machinery he pushed Michael to his absolute maximum leading to the awesome fight between both of them in suzuka qualifying 2000. For me Hakkinen is highly underrated the second best drivers of the late 90s and of the current grid (except Schumacher) I would only put Alonso ahead of him. He's definitely top-ten all time material.

#192 Kingshark

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 18:12

So far, the list looks like this:

14 - Mika Hakkinen

15 - Lewis Hamilton

16 - Nelson Piquet

17 - Emerson Fittipaldi

18 - Jack Brabham

19 – Graham Hill

20 – Jochen Rindt

I really think Hamilton is very overrated and Piquet, Hill and Brabham are underrated.
Oh btw, the #22 and #23 we were talking about on F1F are likely Raikkonen and Button, who else could they be?


Edited by MightyMoose, 05 June 2012 - 18:44.
Removed: List of "what you think"... we're restricting this to discussion about those on the list so far, Sorry.


#193 joshb

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 18:38

Great driver, but placing him ahead of Piquet and Brabham is probably too much.


i think so too, thats not saying Mika is overrated but Brabham/Piquet are underrated

#194 aditya-now

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 19:12

How far up the list do you believe Brabham should be?


.... based on who they have publicized so far:

14 - Jack Brabham

15 - Nelson Piquet

16 - Mika Hakkinen

17 - Emerson Fittipaldi

18 - Lewis Hamilton

19 – Graham Hill

20 – Jochen Rindt

which leaves the problem of Raikkonen and Button, but they would figure as 21st and 22nd.

In any case, it would be ridiculous to have drivers like Lauda, Brabham and Piquet behind drivers like Vettel, Hakkinen and Hamilton. The dimension of Alonso though is already more or less on a par with Lauda/Brabham/Piquet, also taking into account the number of victories the Spaniard has scored.

Edited by MightyMoose, 05 June 2012 - 19:24.
Removed: Speculation on who may be in 1-13, posts are to remain on the drivers selected so far.


#195 Headspin

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 20:30

Mika should not even be in the top 20. Extremely over rated driver. Barely beat Michael despite a significantly better car, then barely beat Eddie Irvine despite a significantly better car, and only ever had succes when he had the best car over 3 seasons in his career, and was not much quicker than David Coulthard, and beaten by him over a season twice, plus Johney Herbert beat him at Lotus.

That's not true though. Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve also pushed and beat Michael in the very same era. The only difference between Mika and them is he had a better car for a bit longer. Villenueve beat Michael in 96 and 97. The perception of Mika is skewed because at that time the F1 world was DESPERATE for a true Schumacher rival, so they basically manufactured one.

How do know Mika also didnt have a much better car than Michael? (he did) Because you just assumed he was a better driver than Jaques and Hill?

Just because Ferrari closed the performance gap does not mean the cars were closley matched. The Mclaren was still much better, it was just miles and miles better at the start of the seasons, like 1 second a lap faster. I never saw much to suggest Mika was better than JV. Both were only successful with dominant cars, and both did nothing without them.


I also think Mika is bit too high on the list, but it's not totally unreasonable to have him there.

Edited by MightyMoose, 06 June 2012 - 02:14.
Removed: Personal Attack - please do not repeat it.


#196 ryan86

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 20:35

I think it's sometimes a battle between the head and the heart. The head tells you Brabham, Hill and Piquet were very successful drivers, but, and I might be wrong since I never saw either of them race before they were gone from F1, but there seems to be very few of these heart type stories, where they are concerned. And sometimes the pull of the heart can be stronger.

I think though there becomes a point in these lists where the order might be slightly different to yours, but if they have Hakkinen 14th and mines say 19th, there's not a great deal of diference is there. So long as they've not put him about Clark, Senna or Prost and I've not put him behind Brundle, Warwick or Lehto, you can accept that the differences between the drivers around the zone are pretty small, and just pieces of personal opinion.

Edited by ryan86, 05 June 2012 - 20:38.


#197 Fontainebleau

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 21:15

By the way, I've found this list:
http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=1

Somehow it seems obsolete to me, but I can't find a creation date.

I like that list! Not the exact ranking they have given the drivers (to me, Prost was a better driver than Senna; less charismatic, but better driver), but even if in a different order I would certainly have the same 5 top drivers as my top 5, and the following 5 as my following 5.

#198 scheivlak

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 22:06

By the way, I've found this list:
http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=1

Somehow it seems obsolete to me, but I can't find a creation date.

Look at http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=9 and http://f1greatestdri....com/?driver=17 plus the fact that Schumi's return isn't mentioned in http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=2 makes you think this is from late 2009.

#199 TheBunk

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 22:32

As for my comment about Hamilton: "Hamilton should make the top 20 for his 2007 season alone." This statement I stand by, so I leave it up to you to explain why it is "plain laughable." Preferably with more than one sentence.


So, do you then also include Jacques Villeneuve automatically in the top 20 because of his 1996 season?

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#200 Kingshark

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 22:50

So, do you then also include Jacques Villeneuve automatically in the top 20 because of his 1996 season?

Thing is, the 1996 Williams was totally dominant while the 2007 Mclaren was perhaps slightly worse than the Ferrari that year. Despite that, Hamilton came just as close or closer than Villeneuve to winning the title in his début season.

Give Hamilton the FW-18 in his rookie season, let Hill be his teammate, and watch him win the title with relative comfort.

Note that I'm not even a Hamilton fan myself, but you can't compare him with Villeneuve, he's much better than that.

Edited by Kingshark, 05 June 2012 - 22:51.